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View Full Version : (misc) Is it ok to use Kratom today?



wmjrmrr
14-05-2012, 18:23
So I just withdrew from Kratom. Do you think I can use Kratom 5g (powder Bali) starting today without going through WD's again?

This is the summary of the WD process.
Day 1-No Kratom- Felt fine
Day 2-No Kratom- no energy, minor digestive issues and minor anxiety in the middle of the night
Day 3-No Kratom- a little worse than day two
Day 4-took 2.5 grams to stop WD's (I know, kinda stupid)
Day 5-took 1.5 grams
Day 6-No Kratom- no energy and medium depression
Day 7-No Kratom- no energy and medium depression
Day 8-No Kratom- Felt great back to self
Day 9-No Kratom- Felt great back to self
Day 10- Today

Has it been long enough since I last look it? This time I plan using one day on and three days off to avoid physical WD symptoms.

I just want to make sure if I take it, that 2-3 days later I won't be feeling WD's.

Thanks for any reponses!

wmjrmrr
14-05-2012, 22:53
No love from anyone ?

silentcowboy
14-05-2012, 23:04
My guess that its safe to use it, you've probably broken your tolerance to it, and definitely beat the physical dependency. I would say your taking a risk by using so early after detox. But if you can keep yourself on that schedule go for it.

wmjrmrr
14-05-2012, 23:16
My guess that its safe to use it, you've probably broken your tolerance to it, and definitely beat the physical dependency. I would say your taking a risk by using so early after detox. But if you can keep yourself on that schedule go for it.

I forgot to mention that my habit was only for one month about 5-10 grams of powdered Bali for most days. Not sure if that makes a difference.

By saying I am taking a risk, do you mean risking being physically addicted again?

Thanks for your comment.

wmjrmrr
15-05-2012, 00:51
Well I went ahead and dosed 5.7 grams of powdered Bali and the body buzz is back! I think that's a good sign, meaning my tolerance has really lowered and my physical WD where gone.

ErgicMergic
15-05-2012, 00:55
Take it from someone who started using Kratom a year ago after a 3 week break from real opiates, with the same mindset and dosing frequency as your new proposed plan: I wouldn't risk it. Physical dependency sets in very quickly once you've had previous dependence. Your opioid receptors just know the drill, I guess they've been sensitized to form dependency quicker now. I started out using 3 times a week, then 4 times a week, then I just felt like crap on my off days, so I used a little on off days, etc.

I only dosed 3.5-4.5 grams once daily, and after numerous taper attempts, I said "fuck it," and continued using Kratom or tramadol once daily. I don't use tramadol anymore, but I've instated a very slow taper. Right now I'm on an extremely low, tapered Kratom dosage: 0.33g-1.0g a day, 1.5-2g when I'm having a really bad pain day, but usually under 1 gram. I am only using it for opioid maintenance and very subtle pain relief right now. The interesting thing is that opioid hyperalgesia from using regular dosages of Kratom daily has gone away, and my baseline pain is a lot lower now, since opioids cause pain over the long run, just like benzos cause anxiety over the long run.

You have to ask yourself what you want out of Kratom. If it is to get high (those doses are quite high, considering 1g Kratom = 3.75mg hydrocodone), then you will certainly end up right where you started. If it is just to feel normal, and you absolutely have to use, just use a low dosage, and taper very slowly over time. Kratom is the best opioid tapering tool, since it is powdered and weak compared to Suboxone, so if you have a scale, you can make ridiculously small cuts.

If you do end up using large amounts again daily, just use it for 3-4 times a week, and on the off days use 1.5-2g. I read this on a Kratom forum and have used it in the past. It's a great idea, but for the previous daily opioid user, there's no running away from dependence while using opioids again, no matter how carefully you structure your usage.

wmjrmrr
15-05-2012, 01:01
Take it from someone who started using Kratom a year ago after a 3 week break from real opiates, with the same mindset and dosing frequency as your new proposed plan: I wouldn't risk it. Physical dependency sets in very quickly once you've had previous dependence. Your opioid receptors just know the drill, I guess they've been sensitized to form dependency quicker now. I started out using 3 times a week, then 4 times a week, then I just felt like crap on my off days, so I used a little on off days, etc.

I only dosed 3.5-4.5 grams once daily, and after numerous taper attempts, I said "fuck it," and continued using Kratom or tramadol once daily. I don't use tramadol anymore, but I've instated a very slow taper. Right now I'm on an extremely low, tapered Kratom dosage: 0.33g-1.0g a day, 1.5-2g when I'm having a really bad pain day, but usually under 1 gram. I am only using it for opioid maintenance and very subtle pain relief right now. The interesting thing is that opioid hyperalgesia from using regular dosages of Kratom daily has gone away, and my baseline pain is a lot lower now, since opioids cause pain over the long run, just like benzos cause anxiety over the long run.

You have to ask yourself what you want out of Kratom. If it is to get high (those doses are quite high, considering 1g Kratom = 3.75mg hydrocodone), then you will certainly end up right where you started. If it is just to feel normal, and you absolutely have to use, just use a low dosage, and taper very slowly over time. Kratom is the best opioid tapering tool, since it is powdered and weak compared to Suboxone, so if you have a scale, you can make ridiculously small cuts.

If you do end up using large amounts again daily, just use it for 3-4 times a week, and on the off days use 1.5-2g. I read this on a Kratom forum and have used it in the past. It's a great idea, but for the previous daily opioid user, there's no running away from dependence while using opioids again, no matter how carefully you structure your usage.

Thanks for the info. So you think even with a 5 gram powdered bali dose one day and then three days off, I will still become physically addicted?

ErgicMergic
15-05-2012, 01:09
So you think even with a 5 gram powdered bali dose one day and then three days off, I will still become physically addicted?

Without a doubt, withdrawal caused by physical dependence can be more subtle than the vomiting and cold sweats of hardcore opioid withdrawal. In my case, it presented itself as minor depression, fatigue, diarrhea, and a runny nose in the mornings. This leads to taking some on the off days to feel normal, and then... well, you know the rest. ;)

wmjrmrr
15-05-2012, 01:16
Oh boy...that sucks. Thanks for the heads up.

ErgicMergic
15-05-2012, 01:19
No problem :)

kratomfan
15-05-2012, 08:53
This was a great read. Very informative. Thank you.

bpayne
07-10-2012, 22:24
What source do u have that shows 1 gram of kratom = 3 mg of hydrocodone ... Frankly I find that very hard to believe and probably won't believe it unless you can provide a verifiable source to that information

MoosejawSanders
07-10-2012, 23:02
^ It doesn't seem like it can be too accurate given the variety in kratom. Check out this great post by amapola for a comparison of alkaloid content of a variety of kratom strains:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/540581-The-Kratom-Thread?p=9324387&viewfull=1#post9324387

SaosinEngaged
07-10-2012, 23:56
What source do u have that shows 1 gram of kratom = 3 mg of hydrocodone ... Frankly I find that very hard to believe and probably won't believe it unless you can provide a verifiable source to that information

If you find it very hard to believe you either:

a) Have used shit Kratom
b) Have a tolerance and didn't dose high enough (I dose up to 30g Bali powder)
c) Didn't dose properly

Kratom is not as weak as people make it out to be (coming from someone dependent upon 300mg Oxy).

Most people underdose, which is a good thing unless you have a high tolerance and need to up the dose to stop WD or feel effects. 5-8g of Bali is pretty weak, even following the conversion presented above. Yet for a user with no tolerance, that is a perfect sweetspot.

I also think there's a psychological roadblock for certain people who don't want to believe Kratom can be potent/useful because it's legal and/or not a "classical" opioid.

Hiltoniano
08-10-2012, 07:04
Yea i use pretty good quality premium bali. its feels to be about 1g=4mg hydro according to vast experience with both drugs. Kratom kicks ass as long as you treat it with respect. And to Saosin^ how do you possibly dose >1oz at a time? that seems like a hella lot of powder....

junglebook
08-10-2012, 09:18
No. I advise against it. Get some DMT.

bpayne
10-10-2012, 14:43
I use very strong kratom up to 30 grams a day of various strains such as maeng da, green malaysian, red vein thai, ect.. and I know what I get is very Good quality.. don't get me wrong I love kratom.. and kinda hate it. I'm awake from withdrawing from it Right now. with severe RLS.. I can believe the potency equivelant as far as withdrawals.. but the effects are nowhere near hydrocodone my friend. I actually prefer kratom though.. I like it's stimulating nature.. I will check out that thread you posted as well Moose.. thanks

dcraver877
10-10-2012, 20:42
how is dmt going to help kratom withdrawal and pain? yes dmt kills pain while you are "gone" but only for half an hour to an hour max.