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Benzos Etizolam vs other benzos (Clonozepam)..

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Hey, so in terms of withdrawal symptoms is it the same as other benzos? I want to use it to treat my hppd because my doctor is refusing to give any benzos, would I have to taper off it?
 
I actually have been using both etizolam and clonazepam recently, I find that they have different uses. I have never really found clonazepam to be sedating (even @ 2mg 2X a day, years ago,) though it is great for keeping anxiety at bay. I'm not talking about recreational use- I'm sure if you take enough of it you will be sedated. Etizolam OTOH I find is great for getting to sleep. So as for equivalencies, it really depends on what effects you are looking for. If I take 1mg of clonazepam for anxiety, I feel "normal" rather than slowed down. 1mg of etizolam would treat the anxiety too, but it would also make my body more relaxed, and I would feel it more despite the charts that saying that etizolam is half as potent.
Also, remember that everyone is different. Basically what I'm saying is its not as simple as the charts make it seem (I think that those charts originated for the purpose of managing benzo taper & withdrawl)
 
Definitely, the benzodiazepine equivalency charts vary highly from individual to individual.

For example, I think it's a joke to say 0.5mg alprazolam = 0.5mg clonazepam, as clonazepam for me is extremely weak and no more effective than a breath mint.
 
tricomb said:
Definitely, the benzodiazepine equivalency charts vary highly from individual to individual.

For example, I think it's a joke to say 0.5mg alprazolam = 0.5mg clonazepam, as clonazepam for me is extremely weak and no more effective than a breath mint.
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tricomb, they are equipotent. It is just that alprazolam happens to be a little more sedative than clonazepam so that makes it more noticeable and "stronger". Clonazepam, however, is stronger in ways that aren't noticeable (ie. it is a far stronger anticonvulsant and muscle relaxant at those doses than alprazolam is). Otherwise at those doses, they are equal in causing anxiolysis. This list is based on anti-anxiety strength. Nothing else. It is not based on which is most hypnotic or which is most anticonvulsant or whatever else.
 
kokaino said:
tricomb, they are equipotent.
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I realize according to the chart they are. But I'm telling you from my own extensive experience they are not. I was not referring to sedation/hypnotic properties.

Clonazepam makes my anxiety worse. Clonazepam failed at insane doses to prevent seizures during benzodiazepine withdrawal, so I think that speaks for it's anti-convulsant properties.
 
tricomb said:
I realize according to the chart they are. But I'm telling you from my own extensive experience they are not. I was not referring to sedation/hypnotic properties.

Clonazepam makes my anxiety worse. Clonazepam failed at insane doses to prevent seizures during benzodiazepine withdrawal, so I think that speaks for it's anti-convulsant properties.
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Well that isn't the problem of the list or the drug, it is a reaction that your body had to a certain drug. Just because you had a bad reaction to clonazepam that doesn't mean the list is bunk. The list is roughly accurate and doctors of nations in the world go by this list for guidance when switching different benzos, etc.
Clonazepam is taken by millions for its anticonvulsant properties and it is one of the most powerful anticonvulsants among all benzos.

You could've tried 1 mg lorazepam, that may have worked for you. Perhaps 10 mg diazepam. But at the end of the day it's still 0.5 mg alprazolam = 0.5 mg clonazepam.
 
Well, you two are kind of in agreement. While tricomb was highlighted in a somewhat subjective difference between the two drugs, kokaino also mentioned other differences they share, despite their being of what I am going to assume is equivalent anxiolytic potential. In other respects, such as how they acts as cns depressants and muscle relaxants, they certainly would seem to have somewhat different properties.
 
kokaino said:
Well that isn't the problem of the list or the drug, it is a reaction that your body had to a certain drug. Just because you had a bad reaction to clonazepam that doesn't mean the list is bunk. The list is roughly accurate and doctors of nations in the world go by this list for guidance when switching different benzos, etc.
Clonazepam is taken by millions for its anticonvulsant properties and it is one of the most powerful anticonvulsants among all benzos.
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That's why if you read my first post I said "for me clonazepam is weak", in my second post I said it varies individual to individual. And in my third post it says based on my own experience.

I was given both IV diazepam and lorazepam.

I wasn't saying clonazepam is a useless compound, It helps many people with epilepsy and other diseases, however if I had epilepsy I would be fucked because clonazepam doesn't seem to work for me.
 
tricomb said:
That's why if you read my first post I said "for me clonazepam is weak", in my second post I said it varies individual to individual. And in my third post it says based on my own experience.

I was given both IV diazepam and lorazepam.

I wasn't saying clonazepam is a useless compound, It helps many people with epilepsy and other diseases, however if I had epilepsy I would be fucked because clonazepam doesn't seem to work for me.
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Okay, so we agree. However, it's unfortunate that you react that way to clonazepam. I don't find it all that recreational, but I do find it very therapeutic. It is a stronger anticonvsulant and stronger muscle-relaxant than alprazolam is. Alprazolam is a stronger sedative, yet still a functional sedative unlike for example, temazepam or triazolam. Tends to kick in a bit quicker than clonazepam, but metabolism can vary from individual to individual or situation to situation. For example someone who just had a whopper combo with some onion rings and a large coke is going to have a longer time having the alprazolam kick in.

BTW, I myself am scripted Xanax 1 mg 3x/day and have been so for over 5 years now.
 
IME I have found xanax to be therapeutic really only in terms of short intense anxiety attacks, where pins have worked really really well (in a sense like diazepam) for my muscle and nerve issues. Nowadays my nerve issues are much more of a problem than my anxiety (which with BCT I'm learned to manage with pretty well, so that is to say neither is much an issue).

Different strokes for different folks for different conditions =D

Alas, such is like.

Yet it keeps going on... ;)
 
kokaino said:
Okay, so we agree. However, it's unfortunate that you react that way to clonazepam. I don't find it all that recreational, but I do find it very therapeutic. It is a stronger anticonvsulant and stronger muscle-relaxant than alprazolam is. Alprazolam is a stronger sedative, yet still a functional sedative unlike for example, temazepam or triazolam. Tends to kick in a bit quicker than clonazepam, but metabolism can vary from individual to individual or situation to situation. For example someone who just had a whopper combo with some onion rings and a large coke is going to have a longer time having the alprazolam kick in.

BTW, I myself am scripted Xanax 1 mg 3x/day and have been so for over 5 years now.
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Yeah I believe we are in agreement. I'm prescribed xanax, halcion, and temazepam funny you should mention all three. I don't know why my body doesn't recognize clonazepam, it's really unfortunate because on paper it appears to be a great alternative for anxiety, what with it being "equipotent" to xanax, with a much longer duration and half life, etc.

However if I need longer acting benzo effects, be it for anxiety, convulsions, etc. I take diazepam in high doses. Alprazolam is my DOC for panic attacks though, if I'm going to medicate, and these days I don't medicate for anxiety anymore.

Being on xanax at very high doses for almost a decade has ruined my benzodiazepine tolerance though, semi-permanently.
I don't take benzos regularly anymore though.
 
toothpastedog said:
IME I have found xanax to be therapeutic really only in terms of short intense anxiety attacks, where pins have worked really really well (in a sense like diazepam) for my muscle and nerve issues. Nowadays my nerve issues are much more of a problem than my anxiety (which with BCT I'm learned to manage with pretty well, so that is to say neither is much an issue).

Different strokes for different folks for different conditions =D

Alas, such is like.

Yet it keeps going on... ;)
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That could be true, but I have been on Xanax for anxiety and panic attacks for the past 5 years. Currently I'm on 1 mg 3x/day and it has worked really well for my anxiety - but I have to dose 3 times a day, whereas someone on diazepam or clonazepam wouldn't have to dose 3 times, maybe 2 times tops. I have been on 1 mg 3x/day for over a year now and I have been talking to my doctor about going to the 2 mg 3x/day - but he says before we go up to the bars we could go 1 mg 4x/day for a while first and then go up in dose in another year.
 
I was on 2mg q4h and PRN, so that adds up to like 12mg xanax/day not counting PRN which can easily add another 6-8mg, for over 5 years.

2mg TID is really not somewhere you want to be, although I'm not going to sit here and preach about benzos to someone who I know understands the risks and consequences. I will say though, that by not medicating for anxiety I have grown exponentially as an individual, in ways I never thought possible.
 
tricomb said:
I was on 2mg q4h and PRN, so that adds up to like 12mg xanax/day not counting PRN which can easily add another 6-8mg, for over 5 years.

2mg TID is really not somewhere you want to be, although I'm not going to sit here and preach about benzos to someone who I know understands the risks and consequences. I will say though, that by not medicating for anxiety I have grown exponentially as an individual, in ways I never thought possible.
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This is the shit.

In response to Kokaino -

Actually doesn't sound like bad advice... I mean as far as a doctor's generic response to such a request from one of their patients goes. Iono, it doesn't sound so bad, but often I'm temped to think more along the line of, when a patient is well educated about their condition(s) and treatment(s), their requests should be given more weight than most doctors give them. Still though, raising to 1mg 4x/day first doesn't sound so bad. It just sucks it sounds like he'd make you do that for a year before jumping to the bars... seems like a long time.

But then again, given my experience with benzos (which is my own and not your, for instance), has been that I was able to use them for a relatively short period (1.5ish years) while I worked on bct shit to manage my anxiety. Not everyone has the pleasure to just use benzos as such a crutch, as I understand my anxiety was on the more moderate, and certainly not severe, side of the spectrum.

Anyhoo, life still goes one. At least it seems like your doctor kinda listens to you :\
 
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