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Dan1584
25-12-2002, 05:11
I was just wondering what is the most intense or powerful hallucinogen....since all these tryptamine research drugs are arriving I was just wondering what the most powerful hallucinogen is at this point in time....is it LSD?
Btw....can anyone tell me about these new research chemicals...i.e. Names, Method of Intake, Effects..etc...I have looked on erowid but it hasn't been that big of a help.

Raverforlife
25-12-2002, 05:17
As far as dosage goes LSD is the most powerfull, it is measured in Micrograms thats one of the only tryptamines that can be strong in the microgram range. As far as the reasearch chems go they are just new chemicals that are either analogs of existing drugs or that are new entirely such as alpha-methytryptamie. There are many sites with info on these.

Pander Bear
25-12-2002, 05:20
if you aren't satisfied with thta erowid has to offer in the line of explanations of research chemicals, i'm afraid you're out of luck. They're pretty much the most comprehensive webside on the subject.

Raverforlife
25-12-2002, 05:26
you could also try the hive.

mthree984
25-12-2002, 05:40
Yea as raverforlife said on a dose basis LSD is by far the most potent. But the most powerful one or most intense i would have to say DMT. This is definatly an opinoin topic, some might say salvia is the most powerful, maybe 2c-t-7... and some trolls might say pot. But my opinoin is that DMT is the most powerful hallucinogen that mankind has discovered.

Crimson Cloud
25-12-2002, 07:28
Yeah, this topic is all about opinion, unless you're taking strictly about potency, in which case LSD takes 1st place. As for my opinion on which is the most intense experience, I would say 5-Meo-DMT.(yes, I have done DMT also)

deYFreeMon
25-12-2002, 08:42
Supposedly they are lsd-025, eth-lad, al-lad, alpha, O-dimethyltyrptamine, dmt, five methoxy dmt, DOB, mescaline, DOI, salvia divinorum, DOM, 2CE, DOET and methamphetamine, just to name a few.
Also, some dank nugs can get people really tripping as well, especially if you play it off right.
"No squealin', remember that it's all in your head."--The Gorillaz
And let us not forget about diethyl ether, ketamine, nitrous and mda.

Acidfiend
25-12-2002, 09:02
5meoDMT by far. Dmt and salvia can get there, but their intensity is mostly based on how far from reality they can take you as well as the bizzareness of the experience. 5meoDMT not only takes you that far out of the outside world, its sheer power and intensity is so profound it is almost impossible to make any sense of what is happening to you while you are on it. DMT and salvia may be powerful, but you can usually work with them a little and walk away with some kind of lesson or memory of what happened. 5meodmt does not offer this curtesy and shows no mercy or compassion to your consciousness.
[ 25 December 2002: Message edited by: Acidfiend ]

Crimson Cloud
25-12-2002, 09:14
^^^Agreed.

Lingo
25-12-2002, 20:15
[quote]Originally posted by Raverforlife:
As far as dosage goes LSD is the most powerfull.
Not quite. Pure salvinorin A is, microgram for microgram, more powerful than LSD.
Adios,
Steve

Stoned Penguin
25-12-2002, 21:20
I would have to say the most powerful by does, would be LSD. And the most powerful, judging by the effects, would be DMT. This is just my opinion...

stardreamer
25-12-2002, 21:38
[quote]Originally posted by deYFreeMon:
"No squealin', remember that it's all in your head."--The Gorillaz

It's funny that you stuck this quote in. My first mushroom trip, this video came on MTV and I was completely shocked. I remember the wicked cartoons and animations being the most impressive thing I had ever seen up to that point.

toxiku
26-12-2002, 01:00
[quote]Originally posted by Lingo:
Pure salvinorin A is, microgram for microgram, more powerful than LSD.
It's not. I think that a normal dose of salvinorin A is about 400 micrograms.... and 400 micrgrams of LSD is already a relatively high dose

NSU
26-12-2002, 02:33
I agree with the above who mentioned 5-meo as the most powerful psychedelic experience....DMT alone is very powerful but 5-meo overwhelms you in such a way, you are in terror for a few minutes....Not for the faint at heart...

ntgn
26-12-2002, 03:48
Yea 5-meO-DMT is the heaviest drug I've ever taken ... I get major visuals from it tho they aren't that nice to look at - pure fractal disintegration of reality, too alien and computerized and moving to fast to enjoy...
As far as friendly cartoon style fun visuals 2C-T-2 has been the most impressive so far...

Pollux
26-12-2002, 05:17
As many of us have allready pointed out, in terms of intensity it would be 5meo-dmt.
I have not come across anything so far that is as intense as this. Dmt is similar, but not quite as powerfull.
5meo-dmt takes you to another plane of existance...every once in a while it's really fun, I couldn't see myself doing that regularily though...

john belushi
26-12-2002, 22:12
I would have to disagree on the 5-meo being the most powerful, having said that this thread is like asking what is the most powerful religion! Its totally subjective. SWIM has done high doses of the following DOM,LSD,psilocybin,DMT, MDA,MDMA,2cb,ketamine,DXM,
anti-chlorogenics,muscimol,cannabis,etc,etc. And their all powerful in their own right. ALSo smoke 60+mgs of DMT and tell me 5-meo stands up to par.

Dan1584
27-12-2002, 01:24
I'm getting the general idea from your responses that 5-Me0-DMT is the most powerful...I went to erowid to research it and someone there said it feels like:
K-Hole + Multi Hits of LSD + 50 Whippets
If that is even near close to what it feels like I would be soooooooo fucking terrorfied if I took it....I wanna try it though, sounds unbelievable. I'll never find it though, so no need to get my hopes up....how dangerous is it, while your on it...is it easy to die off of?

synchrojet
27-12-2002, 06:00
LSD is not only the most powerful psychedelic--it is the most powerful drug that we know of. It is twelve thousand times as potent as morphine. In a typical acid trip, from a dose of a few hundred mics, only about 3 million molecules actually reach the brain and interact.
THAT's potent, people.

ShamanRemixed
27-12-2002, 06:56
Honestly, of all the drugs I have done, two stand out in my mind as the most intense.
1. 40 oral, 40 snorted 5-MeO-DiPT + Weed (Yes blah blah I know I was stupid it was a while ago)
2. 4 oz Robo divided into two 2 oz doses 3 hours apart with -alot- of high quality weed inbewtween
No drug experiences been as intense as these, even on LSD

heliosphan
27-12-2002, 18:45
shaman remixed, you just reminded me of a trip with 5-meo-dipt and dxm i had taken one time. ill venture to say that this was one of the most powerful hallucinogens i have ever taken. i had done it once before but this time was over the top. i suppose i came into it the wrong way, not really respecting the potential state it would put me in. and kick my ass it did; for about 8 hours.
i can see why many people say 5-meo-dmt and salvia are the most intense. they pretty much define what it is like to be in an altered state of conciousness. unfortunately i havent experienced dmt but id imagine its the same deal.
i must say, dpt is consistent in being a very powerful entheogen/entactogen. i always freak out when coming up and then reach a state of bliss no other substance has taken me to. very awesome experience. ill vote for that one.

Acidfiend
27-12-2002, 19:34
[quote]I would have to disagree on the 5-meo being the most powerful, having said that this thread is like asking what is the most powerful religion! Its totally subjective. SWIM has done high doses of the following DOM,LSD,psilocybin,DMT, MDA,MDMA,2cb,ketamine,DXM,
anti-chlorogenics,muscimol,cannabis,etc,etc. And their all powerful in their own right.
First of all, determining the most intense and powerful psychedelic isn't really as subjective as finding the most useful religion. The criteria might change (ie which is the most powerful in terms of active dose, or which has most intense visuals, mindfuck, or body high, etc). Also, all drugs seem to have a threshold of intensity and can only reach certain levels in their own right before either having no additional effect or putting the user unconscious/dead. IE after taking taking around 15-20 doses of high quality lsd, it appears to plateau around there and any additional lsd taken would have no effect. This is due to, I'm assuming, all the lsd receptor neurons being used up by the previous lsd taken. I'm sure it would be the same for any other drug on there, and a lot of them would probably result in a coma due to overdose.
This is how I'm looking at the question. What drug, in it's normal active dose, produces the most all around intense trip. Measuring sheer intensity, you can only really compare 5meodmt, dmt, and salvia. And most people would agree that 5meodmt takes the fucking cake on that one.
[quote] ALSo smoke 60+mgs of DMT and tell me 5-meo stands up to par.
Considering the fact that the common dose for dmt is around 20-40 mg and the common dose for 5meodmt is maybe in between 5 and 10, you are suggesting that we compare a unusually high dose of dmt to a normal dose of 5meodmt. I have done high doses of both drugs numerous times, and while dmt may be more interesting, 5meodmt is WAY more intense, if not completely overwhelming.
So I pose this question to you, try smoking your 60 mg of dmt and compare it to, oh...15 or even 20 mg of 5meodmt and tell me which one is more intense. I have seen the effects of too much 5meo on someone before (somewhere around 20 mg) and it was nothing short of a full on 15 minute siezure, complete with convulsions, foaming at the mouth, vomiting, and all around horror. That person was inches away from death, thank god I stuck my arm down their throuat and pulled out the vomit they were choking on. Now tell me which one sounds more intense to you.
[ 27 December 2002: Message edited by: Acidfiend ]

Infernal
27-12-2002, 19:42
Now on an opinion poll it may be that the most intense is whatever you think it is. But most powerful ergo, measured by science is none other than LSD. As was said before, by dosage it is also one of the most powerful drugs in the world. Measuring effectiveness of LSD reaction to any other drugs in your body is comparable to pure cesium in water to sodium (pure) in water. As for an opinion side of it I experience 5meoDMT but I actually had a more intense effect with LSD because it allowedme to control it.

Acidfiend
27-12-2002, 20:12
Since when did control ever equate to intensity? Doesn't control defeat the whole purpose? If I went on a roller coaster that I could steer and brake myself, the word "intense" sure as hell wouldn't enter into the description. The idea of intensity is being thrust into the unknown at a pace that is incomprehensible.

MyNameIsLeroy
27-12-2002, 21:17
I Haven't tried most of these drugs metntioned but was wondering how they compare to psilocybin. The most intense mushroom trip I have ever experienced was a level 5 trip (as per the trip rating at www.shroomery.org). (http://www.shroomery.org).) I found this to be a very intense experience and some of the evening I know I will never remember and those parts that I do were full of confusion and visuals that involve time and space being contorted in ways I don't have the vocabulary to explain. It's hard to imagine anything more powerful but since it hasn't even been mentioned I am led to assume that psilocybin is relatively weak in comparison, is this true?

bip norris
27-12-2002, 22:03
I would say that if one goes by dosage we are talking about potency rather than intensity which is more about the subjective response. Psilocybin isn't really in the running although high doses with harmaline (psilohuasca) can be pretty strong. high dose lsd & dmt are intense but my vote goes for 5meo-dmt. high dose Salvia is intense in some respects but the 'twaddled' dissasociation detracts from this.

MindCrime
28-12-2002, 02:00
2ct7 about 10mgs insufflated.
Angels told me my hands weren't clean (heart) to meet God..Said his brilliance would kill me.
I graciously asked to come back to earth.
Dea called 2ct7 a subversive substance.
Fucking A right.

erica.smerica
28-12-2002, 03:01
thus far, for me, it has to be DMT - those crazy beings...

john belushi
28-12-2002, 05:46
here we go agian, when i sid 60mgs of dmt i consider that a normal dose! Again intense is a personal question! much like religion. I was not comparing 60mg of DMT as you have said to a "normal dose" of 5-meo but instead a high dose(18mg) You are not to tell other seekers which chem will bring to vision more than which other(obviously dose is not the question here) For each seeker has his own quest and each quest needs a different ally!!!!
To try to fast foodize psychedelics you will only end up with a high cholesterol low benefit product. remember psychedelics gain power and "intensity" as you apply their lessons to your life succesfully. in otherwords the more you personally learn form a certain psychedelic's teachings the more intense that psychedelics ally will penetrate and sing to your soul. P.S. the above won't make sense to those of you who haven't left the material phase of tripping to gain access to the internal dialogue of existence.

john belushi
28-12-2002, 21:54
just interms of "intensity" not neccesarily beneficial power i would say a high dose of DOM makes everything so intense conceptualy that i find it very hard to look at anything sexual/violent or otherwise dramatic, its like it magnifies everythings meaning by 100 fold and I'm left there being like holy cow take this away from me.

synchrojet
29-12-2002, 10:14
It would be impossible to quantify a subjective aspect of a drug, which I think many of you are trying to do.
The impact that a drug has, psychologically, is not a measure of its potency, per se.
Certainly one could argue that DMT has a more or less universal overwhelmingness to the experience--I have yet to meet anyone who has crossed the threshold who has not been duly impressed/altered.
I do not count the aspect of terror when commenting on intensity. The idea of siezuring and nearly dying from a psychedelic does not sound intense in a psychedelic way...it sounds more like accidently drinking bleach.
The DMT experience is PURELY psychological, see. There is none of that near death crap or physically threatening body load.
Anyone can poison themselves and have a near death experience, and surely that would be intense for some folks, but part of the intensity of the DMT experience is the final realization that the whole thing was mental and spiritual.

stardreamer
29-12-2002, 18:10
[quote]Originally posted by john belushi:
here we go agian, when i sid 60mgs of dmt i consider that a normal dose! Again intense is a personal question! much like religion. I was not comparing 60mg of DMT as you have said to a "normal dose" of 5-meo but instead a high dose(18mg) You are not to tell other seekers which chem will bring to vision more than which other(obviously dose is not the question here) For each seeker has his own quest and each quest needs a different ally!!!!
To try to fast foodize psychedelics you will only end up with a high cholesterol low benefit product. remember psychedelics gain power and "intensity" as you apply their lessons to your life succesfully. in otherwords the more you personally learn form a certain psychedelic's teachings the more intense that psychedelics ally will penetrate and sing to your soul. P.S. the above won't make sense to those of you who haven't left the material phase of tripping to gain access to the internal dialogue of existence.
I agree wholly, although some more powerful psychedelics mess with my memory, so things learned during the trip are often construed when I am straight :) - But I definately feel that intensity is transferable the more I know a drug.
Also, consider the amount of things people like us come to believe during certain altered states that would boggle the mind of a "normal" person. It is intimidating, but enlightening.

Thirdeyeopen
29-12-2002, 18:24
The strongest and most intense hallucinations I have ever had came from a combo of mushrooms, LSD, and Ketamine. I took and 1/8 of mushrooms and 6 hits of pretty impressive acid. But it wasn't until I took a (now that I look at it, an unresponsible amount) of ketamine in powder form that it all really hit me. I'll have to say, for someone who has never tried DMT or anything of that caliber, that combo was insane.

chickenbone
30-12-2002, 23:41
I feel that the strongest and most surprising overtakeing I have ever felt was when I tried Dartura.. I have only done this twice think I will never do it again. Real and unreal no long seperate when it comes to the trumpets...LSD can be intense..but Dartura is always intense..
Like you, I am a P.O.W. of the War on Drugs

mardux420
08-01-2003, 04:36
The most powerful Psychedelic... quite a difficult question to give a staight answer to.
A question of which would lead one to two answers.
First, In all of my psychedelic knowledge and experience I have come to the belief that in terms of sheer intensity during a normal to high(but acceptably safe) level of dosage that, 5-meo-dmt takes the cake although, it is my belief as well that it may be possible to be blown out there further by an extreemly large dosage of N,N-DMT without killing yourself. The second tier of my answer is more of an explanation for the pinacle of psychedelia. When under the influence of many or possibly most active Tryptamines or Phenethylamines, a transcendental experience is possible. There is very little exlanation for its occurance and it seems to occur most often in the more powerful psychedelics. All of the big ones can "wig" you out, and there are different degrees to which the episode can go, as well as different overall characteristics of the experience(most dependant on the specific drug and amount taken). The episodes generally range
from the lower levels
1.Detatchment (feelings of loneliness, socially detatched)
2.Extreem anxiety or panic - hysteria but, user is still in reality .
*usually occurs in inexperienced and unprepared* *people or people not in the right state of mind*
3.Thought loops - to the point of a constant deja vu patterning of reality.
To the higher and more complex.
4. Self Aware ego dissolution - Still able to refer to self as I but, no longer limited to the self, a true universal awareness.
5.Self aware Psychotic \ Enlightenment \
transcendence - Generally consists of a thought loop state with fullout psychological hallucinations[such as imagining that you are making everything happen around you and being able to predict what is to happen moments before it happens] but, not amnesic or dissolving the sense of I and the memory of the self.)
6. Full out Ego death, non-trancendental - (possibly most physically intense) Psychedelia to one of its peaks. If it were a mountain it would be K2. Amnesiac qualities, no sense of the self, reality replaced with distortions beyond description or reality but, realities full replacement leaves little room for the magic of imagination, the most powerful tool used in psychedelic travels.
7. Full out Ego death, trancendental - (possibly most mentally intense)The pinacle. Amnesiac qualities, no sense of the self, reality replaced with distortions beyond description but, a sense of familiarness is still left. Some reference points are still avaliable although at times stimuli is incappable of being gauged. This is where the magic happens and the journey starts. With reality (whether it be heaven or hell at this point) still partially intact imagination is left to play with existence like putty in hand. The Most meaningful and impacting transcendental experience avaliable. At this point you can be experiencing anything in, or even what would be imagined to be beyond imagination. Total awareness of all things and nothing at the same time(which has ceased to exist anyways).
Now that my lengthy explanation is over for the stages I will further explain that the DMT compounds, especially 5-meo, tend to bring on the level 6 experiences described. Other psychedelics, such as psilocibin, LSD, Mescaline, 2C-T-7, and DOM, when the rare occasion of a high level experience occurs, normally precipitate a level 4 or 5 experience with a rare number of level 7 trips. Here comes the deciding factor. In all of my experience LSD seems to pull off the most frequent and hard core level 7 trips with Mesc, psilo, and the 2c family, more in the 5 and 6 range. While it is possible to reach the 7th level with N,N-DMT, and quite effectivlely I might add, the experience is always too short for a fully engorssing experience in my view. Once the journey has began it is over but, with LSD this is not so. If you wig into a fully tanscendental state of psychotic madness on acid it wont be over in a few minutes like DMT, prepare yourself soldier to do psychedelic battle for quite sometime. So, my opinion is that LSD takes the cake as the most powerful psychedelic drug there is.

bongbudda
10-01-2003, 11:50
If the amount you have to take isnt the issue the it could be preaty much any of the main trips;
acid, shrooms, 2cb etc will all be very serious if you really push it.
However I'd have to aggree with a lot of you 5-meo-dmt is a drug that is really something else. It batters you and shows you its in charge. Not really a learning experiance or even fun but in a strange way enjoyable every now and again.

sLiMnSC
11-01-2003, 14:12
It would have to be either DXM or AMT
Michael

chickenbone
11-01-2003, 23:20
Ok....I have never tried 5-meo-dmt . So I have no why of knowing other than by your posts but is it really stronger than a low dose of Dartura. I have found that on Lsd I have experenced a wide spectrum of trips and yet all seem to fall short of the sheer power of the Trumpet. Now sure the tiny'est extra amount of Dartura and you put all understanding behind you and hold on..but When your at the gate...right on the edge right there is where the learning begins with all these trips..And I just was wondering..anybody who has done 5-meo-dmt ever try Dartura..and fill me in..is it really stronger?
Like you, I am a P.O.W of the War on Drugs

chickenbone
20-01-2003, 21:39
so I guess there is nobody out there that can compare? I have only done the one....but From the one side of the fence I find it hard to believe that it can be weaker than another..

Crimson Cloud
20-01-2003, 21:58
Iv'e done both 5-meo-dmt and (stupidly) datura. 5-meo-dmt blows datura out of the water. Datura sucks. It's the stupidest thing I've ever done in my life.

NeoMagic
20-01-2003, 23:18
From my personal experiences I'd have to say LSD or 5-MeO-DMT and from what I've read DOM is right there, along with the whole DO series.

Acidfiend
20-01-2003, 23:48
I've done both datura and 5meoDMT as well. 5meoDMT blows datura away, but datura fucks with you in ways 5meo never will. I think there is a fine line between "psychedelic" drugs and drugs that produce flat out delerium. Half the time I was on datura I didn't even realize I was high, it was like a bizzare alice in wonderland version of Memento. I was talking to flowers, people who weren't there, smoking cigaretts I didn't have (becaues I dont even smoke) etc and my short term memory concerning these events didn't last more than 3 to 5 minutes at a time. I couldn't keep track of anything. But it still wasn't anything NEAR as intense as 5meoDMT.

chickenbone
21-01-2003, 00:29
I understand that dartura creates a more..delirious state..a complete walk though unreality and back without your knowledge..but then you say that its not as strong as the other. Where If your looking for pure intensity(sp?) i would believe thats what dartura is..nothing but intense full on from the get go mind trance. Are you saying that it is strong and yet more fun..or just stronger and more intense a more delirious state than dartura?

cobrax5
21-01-2003, 08:39
5-meo-dmt freebase gets me the most bent. n,n dmt isn't quite there. salvia extract i'd place second. btw, ayahuasca, which is also called yage, is a native american tincture that contains dmt (i've tried both forms) combined with maoi's, which makes for a wildly awesome (imho the best) trip.

tonic*
21-01-2003, 23:19
5meodmt has had the strongest grip on my reality then any other pyschedelic ive tried everytime i go on one of those trips "i dont think ill ever be the same". yet at the same time my ayahuasca experience has been by far the most profound drug experience in my life
[ 21 January 2003: Message edited by: tonic* ]

Acidfiend
21-01-2003, 23:20
chickenbone: do 5meoDMT, salvia, or dmt and you will know the difference between the quality of the trip versus the INTENSITY of it. I can't describe it to you, but there is an underlying level of force behind every drug that determines how "mind shattering" it is, based on how much of your cognitive functions are allowed to function properly. Datura may be wild and produce REAL hallucinations, but it isn't INTENSE like 5meoDMT. You can still see, hear, smell, walk, talk, and (to a certain extent) think...whereas 5meo won't allow for much in any of these categories. It is too overwhelming.
[ 21 January 2003: Message edited by: Acidfiend ]

danesworld
23-01-2003, 23:20
under this topic i can only speak from lsd and mushroom use. if you mean by intense, visuals, mushrooms have sent some strange shit my way, that was when i had eaten a hair over a 1/4 of some good quality caps. if you mean by intense, feeling like i am god, lsd takes the crown. really good visuals always came with the lsd, but the spiritual effect it had was so much better then anything that my eyes told me was there. i'm interested in dmt though, i've heard it was a great ride. however, i cannot believe that anything could put me in the place that lsd has. for me, it still hasn't let go, it's been nearly two years since my last use of lsd, i'll never be the same as i was before. and that's not a bad thing at all. so i have to cast my vote for LSD.
eat it, eat a lot of it at once. hold on tight. later.
big dane

t3knology
24-01-2003, 17:53
5-meo-dmt
is DEFENATLEY the strongest haluginigenic there is

privateparts
24-01-2003, 18:26
i read somewhere that pma is the most powerful out right now. is this true?
steve

connexion
28-01-2003, 13:02
2C-G-5
DOSAGE: 10 - 16 mg.
DURATION: 32 - 48 hours.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books...pihkal030.shtml
quote:I was aware of something still going on some two days later.
32 - 48 hours ! WOW !