I am seeing my psychiatric about my HPPD/DP/DR.. Ive heard that Clonozapam works best as a benzo to help reduce the visual symptoms of HPPD. Ive also heard some say Olanzapine has been fairly helpful, should I suggest this combination to my doctor or not?
Treatment for HPPD?
- Thread starter Pars101
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dimensiontripping
Bluelighter
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- Dec 7, 2007
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I have suffered from this when I was younger. All cases are different but in my case, trying to cure HPPD with other drugs was not an option. I went completely sober, went extremely healthy (like all organic foods, tons of fruits and vegetables no junk food or any chemicals in my diet) and exercised. I spent quality time with friends and within a few months, everything vanished. Time was the biggest key.
Also a MAJOR factor in my HPPD getting worse at that time (this was now 3 years ago) was stress. stress made it so much worse. I know you are probably freaking out and its counterintuitive to accept the situation as it is, but being a healthy and happy person cured me completely. I am symptom free now. I have taken many many drugs since then, but have always spaced out my psychedelic use and the symptoms have never returned. that is the best advice I can give on HPPD cures.
Also a MAJOR factor in my HPPD getting worse at that time (this was now 3 years ago) was stress. stress made it so much worse. I know you are probably freaking out and its counterintuitive to accept the situation as it is, but being a healthy and happy person cured me completely. I am symptom free now. I have taken many many drugs since then, but have always spaced out my psychedelic use and the symptoms have never returned. that is the best advice I can give on HPPD cures.
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
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- Nov 26, 2010
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- 562
I experienced a rather strong visual and spatial HPPD for over six months, as a result of MDMA-induced serotonin syndrome.
I researched MDMA quite a lot but was surprised how little is written about HPPD - regardless of the drug causing it!
What seems clear is that serotonergic drugs tend to cause it most often, with LSD producing the most well known and longest lasting visual alterations.
About 20% of people that take acid will report HPPD, often in the form of visual snow and halos.
As the months go by most will describe an improvement in these features, although color blindness may onset during this time.
I have spoken to more than one LSD user that claimed the snow started clearing up just as certain colors began looking identical.
And for some people this color blindness becomes permanent.
The vast majority do recover from other visual changes, and it is surprising to hear that most life-long HPPD victims do NOT have a problem with their new perception of life. They seem to accept it rather well and depression/anxiety is NOT a long-term issue at all.
I know one LSD user that used it in the 70s.
To this day he cannot read text on a monitor very easily.
But he never complains about it and he is rather successful as an ER nurse.
Ironically his daughter, who is now 21, took SEVEN hits in one night....about two years ago.
Her visuals took a year and a half to calm down, and she will very likely be color blind to blues and purples, maybe even greens.
But she still talks about LSD like she loves the shit!
Her dad is rather upset with the example he set...
I describe LSD because it really is the most likely cause of long-term visual HPPD.
It seems to target the visual cortex more powerfully than any other serotonin agonist or releasing agent.
After all, visual hallucinations are a leading feature of the acid trip experience.
I have some in my freezer and have never taken it!
Damned MDMA...
My point here is that you will very likely experience a near-complete restoration of normal vision.
And even if you don't, you will indeed accept it completely one day.
It will just fade into the background of normal life and your brain will begin to filter it out automatically.
But it may take a few years.
I am 17 months since my serotonin syndrome episode.
For the first 3-4 months I felt like a 90 year old man!
The entire world looked a little more distant, a little grey...like everything was behind a sheet of glass or playing on a screen.
I would have said that my eyes were 'set back in my skull'.
The visual cortex is a VERY complex brain structure, commanding a great deal of blood and glucose.
It is also exceedingly rich in serotonin receptors, which mediate blood flow directly.
A strong enough agonism of the 5HT-2a and 2c receptors will cause down-regulation.
With MDMA at least, there is a compensatory up regulation of 2b receptors in the visual cortex - but this requires substantial neurotoxicity.
Perhaps this is the brain trying to maintain bloodflow to the region.
Over time 2b is down-regulated, and hopefully some of the 2a and 2c receptors return.
But the truth is that very little research can be done on the cause of HPPD, because it is an experience that requires human description.
How can we know if a primate has HPPD?
And studying a human brain through PET scans using radioactive ligands is a very new science.
Doctors do NOT have information much less medication that can treat the re-organization of serotonin nerves in your visual cortex.
There is nothing they can do.
Piracetam might improve your vision, temporarily.
I remember colors becoming SO vivid and textures SO alive when I first started taking it!
The greyness would vanish from the world before my eyes.
And I was literally transformed in a matter of hours.
After two or three days of taking it, my vision would stabilize.
No longer did I experience wonder and surprise by what I was again able to see.
Rather I simply coasted...feeling and seeing normally.
But each time I stopped taking the stuff, my vision got worse again.
It took really coming off of the stuff for several months before my vision reached a bottom.
Then around month 7-8 I realized that I could live with the minor changes I had for the rest of my life.
Anxiety did not interact with my vision any longer, even when it was bad.
By 13 months I had days where my vision and my bodily sensation just peaked on its own.
Almost orgasmic...tingles, bright colors....eyes actually hurt at grocery stores!
But this would come and go, just like all other features of recovery.
Now I am considerably more stable emotionally, but I have suffered some cognitive decline since passing the 1 year mark.
And my vision still seems like an aged man's eyes have replaced mine - some days.
But sure enough, they seem to brighten up a little every few weeks.
So I am evidence that the visual cortical and serotonin connection is a constantly fluctuating relationship.
You cannot make ANY judgments about your long-term outcome until you have SPENT a long long period of time living with it.
By the way, serotonin is the 'serum' that 'tones' (or contracts) the smooth muscle surrounding the intestines.
Bile is a chemical cousin of serotonin and both are derived from dietary tryptophan, an amino acid found in protein.
Its primary purpose is to digest food.
But in the brain it represents the most dense and intricate of all neurotransmitter systems!
It has powerful effects upon micro-vasculature, glucose consumption, and dopamine inhibition...
Only time, and exercise, will make a difference.
I STRONGLY recommend against medication of any kind.
There is NO substitute for the re sprouting of receptors and axons in your serotonin system.
I cannot caution you enough - doctors don't know a DAMN thing about serotonin or HPPD.
Very sporadic benzo use is the only thing you should consider.
And any regular use will have real consequences.
If you are determined to medicate the problem, at least try the Piracetam and see what happens.
And don't forget my warning - any improvement on it is temporary.
Working out is your best bet because it sprouts new serotonin axons.
And it grows new capillaries.
So get to work, and don't stop.
No matter what happens to your vision, your anxiety will taper down.
Your brain will not allow it to be any other way.
There is considerable evidence that the worst long term cases of psychosis and depression are actually caused by the medications given to the patients!
The brain is a truly remarkable organ, so patience may reveal a great reward for you.
Do not interfere with the complex process going on in your mind.
Simply support it.
Take care of your intestines with proper diet.
And exercise every single day.
Good luck.
I researched MDMA quite a lot but was surprised how little is written about HPPD - regardless of the drug causing it!
What seems clear is that serotonergic drugs tend to cause it most often, with LSD producing the most well known and longest lasting visual alterations.
About 20% of people that take acid will report HPPD, often in the form of visual snow and halos.
As the months go by most will describe an improvement in these features, although color blindness may onset during this time.
I have spoken to more than one LSD user that claimed the snow started clearing up just as certain colors began looking identical.
And for some people this color blindness becomes permanent.
The vast majority do recover from other visual changes, and it is surprising to hear that most life-long HPPD victims do NOT have a problem with their new perception of life. They seem to accept it rather well and depression/anxiety is NOT a long-term issue at all.
I know one LSD user that used it in the 70s.
To this day he cannot read text on a monitor very easily.
But he never complains about it and he is rather successful as an ER nurse.
Ironically his daughter, who is now 21, took SEVEN hits in one night....about two years ago.
Her visuals took a year and a half to calm down, and she will very likely be color blind to blues and purples, maybe even greens.
But she still talks about LSD like she loves the shit!
Her dad is rather upset with the example he set...
I describe LSD because it really is the most likely cause of long-term visual HPPD.
It seems to target the visual cortex more powerfully than any other serotonin agonist or releasing agent.
After all, visual hallucinations are a leading feature of the acid trip experience.
I have some in my freezer and have never taken it!
Damned MDMA...
My point here is that you will very likely experience a near-complete restoration of normal vision.
And even if you don't, you will indeed accept it completely one day.
It will just fade into the background of normal life and your brain will begin to filter it out automatically.
But it may take a few years.
I am 17 months since my serotonin syndrome episode.
For the first 3-4 months I felt like a 90 year old man!
The entire world looked a little more distant, a little grey...like everything was behind a sheet of glass or playing on a screen.
I would have said that my eyes were 'set back in my skull'.
The visual cortex is a VERY complex brain structure, commanding a great deal of blood and glucose.
It is also exceedingly rich in serotonin receptors, which mediate blood flow directly.
A strong enough agonism of the 5HT-2a and 2c receptors will cause down-regulation.
With MDMA at least, there is a compensatory up regulation of 2b receptors in the visual cortex - but this requires substantial neurotoxicity.
Perhaps this is the brain trying to maintain bloodflow to the region.
Over time 2b is down-regulated, and hopefully some of the 2a and 2c receptors return.
But the truth is that very little research can be done on the cause of HPPD, because it is an experience that requires human description.
How can we know if a primate has HPPD?
And studying a human brain through PET scans using radioactive ligands is a very new science.
Doctors do NOT have information much less medication that can treat the re-organization of serotonin nerves in your visual cortex.
There is nothing they can do.
Piracetam might improve your vision, temporarily.
I remember colors becoming SO vivid and textures SO alive when I first started taking it!
The greyness would vanish from the world before my eyes.
And I was literally transformed in a matter of hours.
After two or three days of taking it, my vision would stabilize.
No longer did I experience wonder and surprise by what I was again able to see.
Rather I simply coasted...feeling and seeing normally.
But each time I stopped taking the stuff, my vision got worse again.
It took really coming off of the stuff for several months before my vision reached a bottom.
Then around month 7-8 I realized that I could live with the minor changes I had for the rest of my life.
Anxiety did not interact with my vision any longer, even when it was bad.
By 13 months I had days where my vision and my bodily sensation just peaked on its own.
Almost orgasmic...tingles, bright colors....eyes actually hurt at grocery stores!
But this would come and go, just like all other features of recovery.
Now I am considerably more stable emotionally, but I have suffered some cognitive decline since passing the 1 year mark.
And my vision still seems like an aged man's eyes have replaced mine - some days.
But sure enough, they seem to brighten up a little every few weeks.
So I am evidence that the visual cortical and serotonin connection is a constantly fluctuating relationship.
You cannot make ANY judgments about your long-term outcome until you have SPENT a long long period of time living with it.
By the way, serotonin is the 'serum' that 'tones' (or contracts) the smooth muscle surrounding the intestines.
Bile is a chemical cousin of serotonin and both are derived from dietary tryptophan, an amino acid found in protein.
Its primary purpose is to digest food.
But in the brain it represents the most dense and intricate of all neurotransmitter systems!
It has powerful effects upon micro-vasculature, glucose consumption, and dopamine inhibition...
Only time, and exercise, will make a difference.
I STRONGLY recommend against medication of any kind.
There is NO substitute for the re sprouting of receptors and axons in your serotonin system.
I cannot caution you enough - doctors don't know a DAMN thing about serotonin or HPPD.
Very sporadic benzo use is the only thing you should consider.
And any regular use will have real consequences.
If you are determined to medicate the problem, at least try the Piracetam and see what happens.
And don't forget my warning - any improvement on it is temporary.
Working out is your best bet because it sprouts new serotonin axons.
And it grows new capillaries.
So get to work, and don't stop.
No matter what happens to your vision, your anxiety will taper down.
Your brain will not allow it to be any other way.
There is considerable evidence that the worst long term cases of psychosis and depression are actually caused by the medications given to the patients!
The brain is a truly remarkable organ, so patience may reveal a great reward for you.
Do not interfere with the complex process going on in your mind.
Simply support it.
Take care of your intestines with proper diet.
And exercise every single day.
Good luck.
Thanks guys, im going to be hitting the gym soon 
Hey, guys I found that Valerian root 450mg x 6/7 a day for one week has reduced my visual snow by 65/70% its worked wonders!! (I have also taken omega 3 fish oil and multi-vitamins along with it).. but im confident it was the Valerian root!! im so happy, I will diff continue it.
Hey, guys I found that Valerian root 450mg x 6/7 a day for one week has reduced my visual snow by 65/70% its worked wonders!! (I have also taken omega 3 fish oil and multi-vitamins along with it).. but im confident it was the Valerian root!! im so happy, I will diff continue it.
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FlippingTop
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2007
- Messages
- 3,211
oxiracetam is meant to block out visual snow very well, and I assume HPPD issues too.
Epsilon Alpha
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2011
- Messages
- 904
Moving to other drugs
Not really advanced, and its probably going to get more views there.
FWIW we have no clue how racetams actually work aside from they seem to be positive allosteric modulators of tons of ion channels.
Not really advanced, and its probably going to get more views there.
FWIW we have no clue how racetams actually work aside from they seem to be positive allosteric modulators of tons of ion channels.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2009
- Messages
- 21,994
Looks like somebody's seen the light.
HPPD, to me, is an entirely psychological problem that arises when you start recognizing artifacts and "edge cases" in the human visual system that "shouldn't" be there and you start worrying about them. As others have said, stress aggravates HPPD, and HPPD aggravates stress, so you can get into a rather nasty spiral.
The best thing to do is to relax and go on with your life.
Get your vision tested too, if you notice a loss in visual acuity. It seems a lot of people experiemnt with psychedleics in their late teens/early 20's which is when some eye problems can develop (like astigmatism or whatever). If you have visual artifacting your optometrist would be the one to know whether it's normal or not.
Hey, my visual snow has gone back to normal... as SOON as I go back to school it gets aggravated, now im sure that its stress is partially to blame. For those saying "just get on with your life".. well I am. I really am trying to, but Its hard to study when there is SO much shit going on! but im doing my best to manage with it. I see no reason why they wouldnt give me clonozopam as its meant to be the most helpful, I got this due to drugs, people with hppd dont seek drug addiction lol, if anything im ALOT more careful, and its been agais since ive touched any drugs.
I've never stopped to think about if I've had HPPD, but i've always had visual snow ever since I first dropped lsd. I think time is the biggest healer you can utilize. Distract yourself, and eventually they will fade away again. They don't disappear, but when distracted you won't actively seek them that much anymore.
If you dont know that you have hppd then you proberly dont. There is more to hppd than visual snow alone, do you get long trails of moving objects for example? have objects ever looked different and changed in size etc..? you proberly do have hppd if the visual snow arose after lsd. Mine didnt arise due to acid though, it was 6-apb/5-apb that fucked me up!! I know people keep saying distract yourself etc.. yes thats true, only to an extent, its so hard when you want to study! especially when you have to write essays and type.
Hey guys, saw my psychiatrist today, she had NO idea what hppd was, and flat out refused to research it.. and consider giving me any benzos (fear that ill proberly abuse it)... she said shel give me 50mg seroquel for 3 weeks, until she looks at my case in greater detail.. fml
MY hppd seems to be aggravated... I have no idea why, its just as strong as it was on the first day, if not alot worst.. MASSIVE trails, like literally the trails are so long, visual snow is stronger than ever.. even mild paranoia? fuck this.
PhilipLethman
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2016
- Messages
- 8
Join DateSep 2016LocationlondonPosts1
Today 23:07
I'd rather not mention my age as I'm quite young for this to be happening to me.
Since 4 months from now, I've had hppd from one tab of acid. My HPPD has been very strong and I can ignore it but there are moments where it gets very bad due to stress.
My friend took 2 of the tabs I took and had none of these such effects. I took them in a bad place (At my friends house in his room with parents next door.), which I know is stupid of me,
but I can't understand how I can have such sever HPPD from such a low dose of LSD. The trip lasted an unusal 18 hours and I got terified towards the end when I had to speak to my parents on the substance without them realising.
2 months into my HPPD i decided to take a quarter tab of acid to see if I could feel anything as I heard that the average person can almost not feel a quarter tab. I felt
some quite powerful effects and I'm thinking that LSD just hits me harder than usual. I need some advice on if I should consult someone. I can't tell my parents. I havn't done any drugs ( aside from
the occasion nos balloon) since but I do drink almost every weekend. I get negative after-images, bad visual snow on walls. What scares me the most is that when I stare at something still for
too long I can enter a trance state where I feel like I'm tripping but less powerfully, the shadows of objects move around and I see many strange transparent outlines that move out of place (hard to explain.)
If anyone has advice I would really appreciate it. It hasn't got any better or worse but I don't want this to remain permanently as it had an effect on my exams last year and I can't let it affect my exams
coming up in 6 months.
Since 4 months from now, I've had hppd from one tab of acid. My HPPD has been very strong and I can ignore it but there are moments where it gets very bad due to stress.
My friend took 2 of the tabs I took and had none of these such effects. I took them in a bad place (At my friends house in his room with parents next door.), which I know is stupid of me,
but I can't understand how I can have such sever HPPD from such a low dose of LSD. The trip lasted an unusal 18 hours and I got terified towards the end when I had to speak to my parents on the substance without them realising.
2 months into my HPPD i decided to take a quarter tab of acid to see if I could feel anything as I heard that the average person can almost not feel a quarter tab. I felt
some quite powerful effects and I'm thinking that LSD just hits me harder than usual. I need some advice on if I should consult someone. I can't tell my parents. I havn't done any drugs ( aside from
the occasion nos balloon) since but I do drink almost every weekend. I get negative after-images, bad visual snow on walls. What scares me the most is that when I stare at something still for
too long I can enter a trance state where I feel like I'm tripping but less powerfully, the shadows of objects move around and I see many strange transparent outlines that move out of place (hard to explain.)
If anyone has advice I would really appreciate it. It hasn't got any better or worse but I don't want this to remain permanently as it had an effect on my exams last year and I can't let it affect my exams
coming up in 6 months.
Join DateSep 2016LocationlondonPosts1
Today 23:07
I'd rather not mention my age as I'm quite young for this to be happening to me.
Since 4 months from now, I've had hppd from one tab of acid. My HPPD has been very strong and I can ignore it but there are moments where it gets very bad due to stress.
My friend took 2 of the tabs I took and had none of these such effects. I took them in a bad place (At my friends house in his room with parents next door.), which I know is stupid of me,
but I can't understand how I can have such sever HPPD from such a low dose of LSD. The trip lasted an unusal 18 hours and I got terified towards the end when I had to speak to my parents on the substance without them realising.
2 months into my HPPD i decided to take a quarter tab of acid to see if I could feel anything as I heard that the average person can almost not feel a quarter tab. I felt
some quite powerful effects and I'm thinking that LSD just hits me harder than usual. I need some advice on if I should consult someone. I can't tell my parents. I havn't done any drugs ( aside from
the occasion nos balloon) since but I do drink almost every weekend. I get negative after-images, bad visual snow on walls. What scares me the most is that when I stare at something still for
too long I can enter a trance state where I feel like I'm tripping but less powerfully, the shadows of objects move around and I see many strange transparent outlines that move out of place (hard to explain.)
If anyone has advice I would really appreciate it. It hasn't got any better or worse but I don't want this to remain permanently as it had an effect on my exams last year and I can't let it affect my exams
coming up in 6 months.
Since 4 months from now, I've had hppd from one tab of acid. My HPPD has been very strong and I can ignore it but there are moments where it gets very bad due to stress.
My friend took 2 of the tabs I took and had none of these such effects. I took them in a bad place (At my friends house in his room with parents next door.), which I know is stupid of me,
but I can't understand how I can have such sever HPPD from such a low dose of LSD. The trip lasted an unusal 18 hours and I got terified towards the end when I had to speak to my parents on the substance without them realising.
2 months into my HPPD i decided to take a quarter tab of acid to see if I could feel anything as I heard that the average person can almost not feel a quarter tab. I felt
some quite powerful effects and I'm thinking that LSD just hits me harder than usual. I need some advice on if I should consult someone. I can't tell my parents. I havn't done any drugs ( aside from
the occasion nos balloon) since but I do drink almost every weekend. I get negative after-images, bad visual snow on walls. What scares me the most is that when I stare at something still for
too long I can enter a trance state where I feel like I'm tripping but less powerfully, the shadows of objects move around and I see many strange transparent outlines that move out of place (hard to explain.)
If anyone has advice I would really appreciate it. It hasn't got any better or worse but I don't want this to remain permanently as it had an effect on my exams last year and I can't let it affect my exams
coming up in 6 months.
Take 8 grams of piracetam and ~8grams of soy lecithin concentrate (it has phophodytalcholine , spelling?) along with 1 gram of alcar and 500 mg of ALA and a b-vitamin sublingual complex. And you can add wubiquinol if you have an extra $20.
ALSO, i'm sure most antipsychotics would work. Hydorxyzine is a 5hta or 5htc antaganoist which would help and that is pretty easy to get.
ALSO, i'm sure most antipsychotics would work. Hydorxyzine is a 5hta or 5htc antaganoist which would help and that is pretty easy to get.
consumer
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2011
- Messages
- 7,777
Lemotrogine has been shown to help significantly with this disorder. It is an anti epileptic drug and mood stabaliser primarily used for bi polar but i have read about it being effective for HPPD. I use it as a mood stabaliser and for that it is a life changing medication. You need to slowly titrate the dosage up as some people will develop a rash as a reaction to the drug. If this happens immediately stop taking the drug and head to an ER. In a small amount of cases this rash can turn fatal unless treated immediately. Worth giving a go though.
My treatement for HPPD was to do ALOT of indole based hallucinogens and after 3 years and 50 shroom trip 15 LSD trips and 40 RC(Indole) trips I barely have it anymore. I dunno if its just a coincidence but it worked. Altho I didnt really seek to treat it I kinda liked it its peaceful and distracting when you have nothing to do.
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