Opioids The Kratom (Mega)Thread v2

Well I've just recently started taking Kratom, and so far I really like the effects.

However, I have noticed a few pretty gnarly side effects.
1. When I take Kratom on an empty stomach, I throw up 30-45 minutes after ingestion. I hypothesize that this is caused based on the alkaloids in kratom effecting the PH in my stomach, which is involuntarily removed (thrown up.)
2. If I take Kratom on a full stomach, the effects of the actual drug are pretty mild compared to when I have nothing in my stomach. However I don't throw up.
3. When I take it with a full stomach I seem to get REALLY bad heart burn, which luckily for me, is easily taken care of by a couple tums.

The best way I'm learning to take it is on a half empty stomach, and when I start to feel sick I just eat more food. This makes for a pretty great Euphoria feeling, while avoiding the throwing up. Hopefully soon my stomach will have adjusted enough so I can take it on an empty stomach.
Is there any foods that help reduce heart burn, particularly fruit juices or something?

Trick509 said:

Well I've just recently started taking Kratom, and so far I really like the effects.

2. If I take Kratom on a full stomach, the effects of the actual drug are pretty mild compared to when I have nothing in my stomach. However I don't throw up.
Is there any foods that help reduce heart burn, particularly fruit juices or something?

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Ironically, I've never thrown up when taking kratom which is odd because many, MANY people do. Your 2nd point is the only one I can comment on from experience. A full stomach, say 3-6 hours after eating may or may not diminish effects. You do have to take more but it also delays action. I prefer taking it a few hours after eating because I notice a lot of negative side effects when on an empty stomach. I do like it on an empty because you need far less and its a quicker, more powerful onset.

For example, I took much larger amount than I usually do about an hour and a half ago, 3 1/2 hours after eating, and the effects only kicked in about 1 hr later and slowly got stronger. Give it more time to kick in if you take it after eating Just keep that in mind if you take it after eating so you don't overdo it and vomit.

muskolo said:

Do you think Kava could negate some of these negative effects?...I nearly called it opioid rage myself. I absolutely hate it and always regret lashing out, although it is not NEAR as bad as it was when I took OC's and the like. I'm sure some of you guys have combated this negative side effect somehow, what did you do?

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I take plain leaf every day, 2-4 times a day. I was being a real dick to the people close to me for no reason. I find that I kind of get stuck inside of a negative "thought loop" where it's almost like I'm planning on how to be a dick or what bullshit I'm going to say next. It's like I don't give myself an opportunity to respond like a normal individual would. Try just saying to yourself BEFORE hand that, hey, I took my Kratom and I'm feeling a bit cranky. I need to not act like an asshole. It works for me honestly. I've improved my attitude a lot with Kratom. I'm actually nicer now on it than I was sober. Just don't get stuck in that loop anger.

Ive been using kratom for about 2 years now and still love it like the first day, anybody have a painless way of reducing tolerance? I take 15-20 grams of powdered leaf daily (4-5 doses). Im asking for help from experienced kratom users. I have Nigella Sativa soft gels (I've been told they can help with WD). Maybe i could do a slow taper, or a fast one? take half my dose for a couple weeks? Im not sure because within this last year i havent gone a day without it. This plant helps me in so many ways but its time to lower tolerance as its hurting my wallet I've read all of the treads about it, just now since its better known im wondering what people have come up with.

drewbocop said:

I take plain leaf every day, 2-4 times a day. I was being a real dick to the people close to me for no reason. I find that I kind of get stuck inside of a negative "thought loop" where it's almost like I'm planning on how to be a dick or what bullshit I'm going to say next. It's like I don't give myself an opportunity to respond like a normal individual would. Try just saying to yourself BEFORE hand that, hey, I took my Kratom and I'm feeling a bit cranky. I need to not act like an asshole. It works for me honestly. I've improved my attitude a lot with Kratom. I'm actually nicer now on it than I was sober. Just don't get stuck in that loop anger.

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Thanks for the advice, Drew. I will give that a shot. I'm sorta getting to the point where I think I'm going to need to do it at night only a few nights a week. I'd rather be bored, have a little anxiety than be constantly stressed about how much I feel like I'm loosing my mind. It feels too much like when I took opiates. Weird that it has only started to happen in the past 3 months or so; then again I'm constantly stressed about a lot of serious shit right now.

silentcowboy said:

Ive been using kratom for about 2 years now and still love it like the first day, anybody have a painless way of reducing tolerance? I take 15-20 grams of powdered leaf daily (4-5 doses). Im asking for help from experienced kratom users. I have Nigella Sativa soft gels (I've been told they can help with WD). Maybe i could do a slow taper, or a fast one? take half my dose for a couple weeks? Im not sure because within this last year i havent gone a day without it. This plant helps me in so many ways but its time to lower tolerance as its hurting my wallet I've read all of the treads about it, just now since its better known im wondering what people have come up with.

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100 grams a day? Holy shit. I'd say you're gonna need to taper if you want it to be relatively painless. LOL..sorry for laughing but I've been taking kratom for a year and I still think it tastes like absolute shit...I couldn't imagine having to down that much crap everyday! Anyway, I'd say try taking a day or 2 and ride with the withdrawals, it will only temporarily reset tolerance but you can work from there and only take enough and keep lowering it. As you know, it takes awhile to permanently lower tolerance.

Well here comes the moment of truth, so to speak. Back into Oxy WD tomorrow and I got nothin but UEI and Bali. I'm gonna find out tomorrow if the UEI is salvation for WD or going to make it worse due to over-stimulation, we shall see.

If the UEI doesn't do it throw some bali on top of it. I don't have much experience with extracts but from what I know it can be hit or miss depending on the vendor.

UEI is very different from most extracts. Where the extracts are usually weak, UEI is very, very strong. Even a 50x extract I've tried doesn't touch the UEI for potency. What concerns me isn't the strength, it's the stimulation (which is terrible when in WD) vs sedation. Whereas Bali is ALL sedation, lending itself well to opiate WD (Just not really strong enough for me, gram per gram), UEI is a blend (stimulation + some sedation).

muskolo said:

100 grams a day? Holy shit. I'd say you're gonna need to taper if you want it to be relatively painless. LOL..sorry for laughing but I've been taking kratom for a year and I still think it tastes like absolute shit...I couldn't imagine having to down that much crap everyday! Anyway, I'd say try taking a day or 2 and ride with the withdrawals, it will only temporarily reset tolerance but you can work from there and only take enough and keep lowering it. As you know, it takes awhile to permanently lower tolerance.

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Sorry for the confusion, its 15-20g total in a day, split into 4 or 5 doses, i know if i went CT it wouldnt be that bad but i work a lot which causes shoulder pain. I just was wondering if anyone knew of a way to reduce your tolerance easily and painlessly.

silentcowboy said:

I just was wondering if anyone knew of a way to reduce your tolerance easily and painlessly.

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This is pretty easy to do with Kratom. Just taper down slowly to a maintenance dosage, 33% of what you use now, and stick to it for a while, maybe 3-4 weeks. Your body will eventually adjust to the new amount of Kratom, then when you start using normal amounts again, use 15-30mg DXM, 30mg Zinc, and 400mg chelated Magnesium 30-60 minutes before dosing. It will help prevent the rebuilding of tolerance to the new, higher Kratom dosage.

The DXM, Zinc, and Mg are NMDA antagonists, which potentiate opioid analgesia, prevent the increase of tolerance, and prevent physical dependence to opioids to a degree. They don't remove previously accumulated tolerance and dependence, only a taper or a break does that.

I just discovered that simple loperamide will eliminate your kratom withdrawal also. I take about 8 to 10 mg every 4 hrs or so, and it takes care of all WD's

Sweet. thanks guys, I'm planning on a taper like you said and going to have lope, nigella sativa, and kratom around so i hope its not too hard, just have to force myself down, as theres no real reason i have to taper (other then less money spent).

Another question, if use lope or nigella to help me through WD, am i lowering my tolerance any if im just substituting substances for other ones. Example: if i take both the above substances for say..5 days and dont notice any WD symptoms, when i go back to kratom how much lower to you think i actually got?

silentcowboy said:

Sweet. thanks guys, I'm planning on a taper like you said and going to have lope, nigella sativa, and kratom around so i hope its not too hard, just have to force myself down, as theres no real reason i have to taper (other then less money spent).

Another question, if use lope or nigella to help me through WD, am i lowering my tolerance any if im just substituting substances for other ones. Example: if i take both the above substances for say..5 days and dont notice any WD symptoms, when i go back to kratom how much lower to you think i actually got?

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Kratom is very forgiving. Much more then regular opiates. If you take 5 days off I can almost guarantee you'll catch a nice buzz off your first kratom batch again.

Also the worst part of kratom withdrawal only lasts 3 days or so

So I ran out of my suboxone early. I've been on a maintenance dose for four years. two years ago I had some recurring back pain and "relapsed" my addiction by taking 32 mgs of suboxone instead of the 20 I was prescribed. My doctor gave me a stern talking to and said that if I "EVER" relapsed like that again he would forcibly admit me back to the hospital. Needless to say, I can't tell him that due to a tendonitis flare up/depression flare up/stress flare up I upped my usual 10mg dosage to 24 for a week or two.

Right now i'm taking 40mgs of lope a day and while it does keep the w/d at bay, it makes me feel sedated, bloated (of course), dehydrated and constipated(of course). I hate the prospect of spending the next ten days like this. I've tried parachuting kratom before, but even wrapped in tp, the flavor stayed in my mouth for HOURS and routinely made me sick to my stomach (full or empty). I remember after taking 3 or 4 grams, I had to pull over on my way to work to puke my brains out. Even the smell of the leaf in the bag made me sick.

In this situation, is Tincture the way to go? Is the flavor and odor LESS pungent? it's the lethargy and 'dried out' feeling I"m trying to combat at this point.

I'm pretty sure that any type of kratom will have that taste, although capsules will eliminate all of the taste except for when you burp. The only time that I taste the kratom is when the parachute breaks open, which isnt that often.

Fresco said:

Kratom is very forgiving. Much more then regular opiates. If you take 5 days off I can almost guarantee you'll catch a nice buzz off your first kratom batch again.

Also the worst part of kratom withdrawal only lasts 3 days or so

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Yeah, and if you stay at or below 10 grams a day you only need to take 1 or 2 days off to get the same effect from a lot less. W/d itself is just exhausting with some anxiety and insomnia. Nothing compared to opiate w/d...imo anyway

^ how long have you been doing this? cuz i was under 10g for a long time, but tolerance eventually rises.

silentcowboy said:

^ how long have you been doing this? cuz i was under 10g for a long time, but tolerance eventually rises.

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Steadily for about 6-7 months. Don't get me wrong, I don't get the same effect I used to from 10g but I can at least catch a buzz. I also usually only dose once a day although I sometimes indulge with 2.

muskolo said:

Yeah, and if you stay at or below 10 grams a day you only need to take 1 or 2 days off to get the same effect from a lot less. W/d itself is just exhausting with some anxiety and insomnia. Nothing compared to opiate w/d...imo anyway

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For insomnia during kratom WD's I take 10 mg of melatonin. And then I keep that bottle of melatonin beside my bed, so when I wake up during the night I take another 5mg melatonin. You can repeat this a few times during the night

Fresco said:

For insomnia during kratom WD's I take 10 mg of melatonin. And then I keep that bottle of melatonin beside my bed, so when I wake up during the night I take another 5mg melatonin. You can repeat this a few times during the night

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Dang, this sounds like a lot of uncomfortability caused by the withdrawals, would it be easier just to taper down every now and again? I can't think of any drug that to me is worth renewing my already present insomnia back to full fledge.