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Shady Kaity
30-07-2011, 20:44
is this safe to do? has anyone tried this? whats the high like for you?
I've done it a couple of times and black out pretty much.
Dose
kpin- 1mgs
sub-3 mgs
Didnt think i'd black out only taking so little of each. whats the deal?

effie
30-07-2011, 21:14
Hi Shady Kaity, welcome to BDD!

What is your tolerance like to benzos and opiates?

I passed out overdoing subs too when I first started having them, was really surprised cos nothing else has ever had that effect before! Scared the shit out of my friends.. buprenorphone is a funny one, people react to it in different ways. Buprenorphine and clonazepam are both long acting too so I'd imagine you passed out for a while!

Mixing opiates and benzos can be pretty dangerous (as am sure you are aware) so always best to go steady, start with really low doses and work up.. the opiate/benzo combo can cause fatal respiratory depression so definitely something to be really careful with. Buprenorphine isn't as dangerous as some opiates in terms of overdosing but it can't be reversed with Narcan/naloxone if you were to OD on it.

Have not tried this combination myself but personally I prefer more like 1mg buprenorphine these days as at low doses you get some effect from a metabolite, norbuprenorphine, which is a full agonist not a partial agonist/antagonist, so feels more like a "normal" opiate (thanks Neighyborhood Threat for that advice!)

I always go for really small doses of benzos with ahy opiates too - I have a moderate tolerance to each individually, but find together you really do need much smaller doses :)

If you're passing out on those doses def try lower, and please be careful mixing opiates and benzos, stay safe!

Shady Kaity
30-07-2011, 21:26
thanks yeah i use to take up to 20mgs of klonopins...but that was about two years ago i like both of them on their own so i decided mixing them would be no big deal except i dont remember much!
thanks for the advice..
taking one mgs of suboxone is better than taking 2-3mgs? how so and why

effie
30-07-2011, 21:43
Hah Neighborhood Threat or Cane2the left are the ones to talk to about buprenorphone really..

People's opinions differ on buprenorphine a lot.. some love it, some hate it, some take high doses, some take low doses - but the idea behind taking a smaller dose is all about buprenorphine only being a partial opioid agonist.

The term "agonist" refers to the drug binding to the opioid receptor in the brain and causing all the lovely opiate effects. An opioid agonist causes opiate effects.* A dopamine agonist binds to dopamine receptors, and causes a different set of effects, serotonin agonists bind to serotonin receptors and cause another set of effects etc..

As buprenorphine is only a partial opioid agonist, it doesn't have the full-on effects that a full opiate agonist would. This is why a lot of people find it doesn't feel the same as other opiates, and isn't as recreational.

However, after you take the buprenorphine, some of it is metabolised into norbuprenorphine. This is a full agonist - so feels much more like other opiates than buprenorphine does.

Buprenophine has a higher receptor affinity than norbuprenorphine - this means that it binds more tightly to the receptors than norbuprenorphone does, so the norbuprenorphine doesn't get a look in and you only feel the buprenorphine effects. However, at lower doses, there is less buprenorphine around so norbuprenorphine does have an effect. This means you have a full opioid agonist having an effect as well as just a partial one, so overall a smaller dose of bupe can feel more like a proper opiate than a large one (to some people, me included).

Haha did that make sense? Have a look at the buprenorphine megathread (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/333166-Suboxone-buprenorphine-FAQ-and-megathread) for more info on bupe.

Sorry if that was all a bit confusing, am quite sleep deprived!

Essentially, smaller doses means the metabolite norbuprenorphine has an effect too, and norbuprenorphine produces more opiate-like effects than buprenorphine.

*technically, "opiate" refers to a drug derived from the opium poppy plant - many drugs referred to as opiates are actually synthetic and not derived from opium poppies at all, and are more currectly called opioids. An opioid is defined as any substance that binds to opioid receptors in the brain - but often the terms are used interchangably and I wouldn't worry about them too much :)

Shady Kaity
30-07-2011, 21:48
Yes that actually does make sense...so essentially no matter how much or how little i take, im going to feel good lol
thanks :D

effie
30-07-2011, 22:00
Haha some people don't feel good from it at all, others prefer high doses, but Neighborhood Threat recommended trying a low dose for the reason I explained above, and it actually did feel better to me. So yes hopefully you will find the same thing with a lower dose!

Shady Kaity
30-07-2011, 22:03
ill definitely try it! i feel like i already do take a lower dose usually only 2mgs...is that low enough or do i need to go lower?

effie
30-07-2011, 22:08
Well, I was advised to try less than 1mg initially, then add a bit more if I wasn't feeling much - 1mg seems about right for me :)

Don't get me wrong - it doesn't feel like a super strong opiate to me, it is a low dose - but it feels like a "proper" more rounded and warm one, tis hard to explain, and I like it a lot :)

My boyfriend has 8mg in one go, my mate has more, I used to have 4mg, so people vary..

Shady Kaity
30-07-2011, 22:09
ill definitely try it =]

K'd-OUT-in-AZ
30-07-2011, 22:12
Buprenorphine is metabolized into norbuprenorphine at doses of 1-2mg or smaller so yes, that is low enough.

Shady Kaity
30-07-2011, 22:15
wordddd that must be why i like it so much lol it feels awesomee
sub has to be one of my favorite to mess with...i get so nostalgic and want to look through old stuff with my boyfriend and read books and chill out and just talk..its great =] thanks guy

Herbal~Jah
11-12-2012, 21:47
is this safe to do? has anyone tried this? whats the high like for you?
I've done it a couple of times and black out pretty much.
Dose
kpin- 1mgs
sub-3 mgs
Didnt think i'd black out only taking so little of each. whats the deal?

You must not have an opiate tolerance if you are nodding out and falling asleep off 1mg of Clonza (weak dose) and 3mgs of Suboxone.

Sorry to bump an old thread but i did't want to start a new one as my title would of been pretty much the same as the thread title but the convo got sidetracked on this thread. I thought this was a thread talking about mixing Suboxone + Clonazepam (aka Klonopin)? I was using the search engine and found this but after like the first post everyone start bibble babbling about Buprenorphine, norbuprenorphine and low doses of sub.....

Anyways, back on topic, So whats the deal with all these threads I read about people talking about mixing klonopin with Suboxone? I hear a lot of people talk about taking kpin with their suboxone. Is this just because that's one of the only benzo type drugs doctors are willing to prescribe someone on Sub treatment? Or is it because klonopin has some synergistic effect with sub? Because I have never noticed anything special when taking subs + kpins...? And furthermore I am pretty sure about 99.9% of sub doctors don't prescribe benzo's to their sub patients (unless in rare cases when they actually need it or are in suboxone treatment due to pain pills prescribed to them by a doctor and didn't mean to get addicted)

alovesupreme
12-12-2012, 00:41
there seem to be two types of sub doctors; some don't really seem to care about making you drop, you can just go and get your sub script and leave, so in this case, people are free to go to other doctors and get benzos prescribed (often without disclosing that they are on sub) or find them on the street. doctors around here that do make you drop will generally always refuse to prescribe suboxone if they find that you test positive for benzos and vice versa; if a doctor knows that you are on suboxone, they will generally never prescribe a benzodiazepine even if the patient suffers from a legitimate, serious anxiety disorder and could really benefit from them. some of this stems from an unwillingness to prescribe potentially habit forming drugs to "addicts" even if there is legitimate need, and some of it is just the general feeling in the medical community that co-administration of opiates and benzodiazepines is dangerous due to potential for respiratory depression, OD and so forth, even though most of us know from first hand experience that it's nominally OK so long as you pay attention to safe dosage levels. personally i wish they would ease up a little bit on the dogma; i think you'd see higher compliance rates with suboxone maintenance in people with co-morbid psychiatric issues, who often feel the need to turn back to full agonist opiates to "treat" various issues they feel to be suffering from (anxiety, depression).

i'm surprised to see so many mentions of klonopin on here too; most of the time around my area you don't see anything but xanax. maybe it is being prescribed because it is felt to be "less abusable" than xanax due to longer half-life.

edit: btw, for what it's worth, i never noticed a huge amount of synergy between sub and my benzos of choice (xanax, etizolam) when i was using it for a detox taper (i always got mine second-hand, never on maintenance, never went to a sub doctor; i'm mostly speaking from my girlfriend's experiences with the medical system). it mostly felt just like taking a benzo by itself. i will say, though, that the sedating effect of both substances is somewhat enhanced; i definitely slept longer on sub+benzo than sub alone or a benzo alone.

Ghost-Man
13-05-2013, 01:32
thanks yeah i use to take up to 20mgs of klonopins...but that was about two years ago i like both of them on their own so i decided mixing them would be no big deal except i dont remember much!
thanks for the advice..
taking one mgs of suboxone is better than taking 2-3mgs? how so and why

:?:?:\
You say you used to take "20mgs of Clonazepam (aka Klonopin)" a day?? Are you sure you didn't mis-type b/c 20mgs of Clonazepam is such a ridiculously high dose it doesn't even make sense.. Its like me say "I used to take 600mgs of OC a day." which is obviously just nonsense and ridiculous amount.. I hope you were never taken 20mgs of kpin, or you were either super addicted with a unlimited supply or just dumb and blacked out for a whole day when taking doses like that (20mgs clonazepam)..

opiatekrzy
13-05-2013, 02:18
It's fairly safe to take klonopin, or any benzo while on suboxone. Just the simple fact your on suboxone tells me you have an opiate dependency which tells me you have a tolerance. if you take your suboxone as prescribed and used to it, you should have no worries, there is no high from suboxone after the 1st or 2nd day as it's a partial agonist, mixing klonopin doesnt create a synergetic high or anything like that either, you just feel the relief from the klonopiin (what makes mixing benzos and subs dangerous is it slows ur respiratory system down so much it can cause death) My former suboxone doctor had me on a benzo, and he literally asked me what benzo i wanted to be on, he said "it doesnt matter to me what one you want to be on, they are all just as addictive" I never had a problem mixing benzos with subs, i have an opiate dependecy soi got a tolerance obviously

Here in N.Y. about 75% of the suboxone doctors are totally against prescribing benzos, but will allow you to be on it if you re getting it from another doctor legally, the other 25% will just be your prescriber of both suboxone and benzos. my family doctor knew i was on suboxone and still let me be on kpin 4mg daily and adderall..

BlueHues
13-05-2013, 02:32
I never experienced a "high" from buprenorphine. benzos can definitely potentiate it. there's a ceiling with bupe, where it doesn't really subjectively seem to do anything over a certain dose. The only thing a higher dose does is block other opiates more effectively, which is a good thing if you're intending on trying to get high while on suboxone. Provided you genuinely want to quit!

opiatekrzy
13-05-2013, 02:37
i personally get negative side effects with high doses of bupe, it really feels so un-opioid like, these side effects, but that only happens when i take more than 8 mg at a time (a whole sub) or sometimes even a whole sub. i get irritable, anxiety, muscle tensio, dry mouth, confusion..but when i would take a half a sub 4mg, i felt nice and energetic, and felt the need to redose at night time. bupe is uniquie in its own way, but 4mg is the blockage dose from opiates if taken immediately after. 8mg of sub a day diminishes an opiate high somewhat if taken, 16mgs (2 subs) gives 100% blockage from feeling opiates

BlueHues
13-05-2013, 02:46
^I know what you mean. I've been prescribed sub on and off for 7+ years. It took me about a week to realize that anything over 4mg didn't do anything except give me strange side-effects, so I'm definitely with you on the 4mg thing...

I was an IV heroin user for many years, and I could still break through a 4mg bupe dose with a big shot of heroin. 8mg is very hard to overcome, but I've managed to do that too! The amount needed to get through it was pretty ridiculous and dangerous though! Trying to break through 4mg od bupe with oxycodone or most commonly prescribed opiates in pill form is damn near impossible! The binding affinity of fentanyl is close though, and that's what's used for bupe patients in emergencies generally.

baooozs
13-05-2013, 02:56
Old thread ladies and gentlemen. Please don't revive old threads unless you have something of utmost importance to add.

Closed. PM me via my signature if you have questions.