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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

limitations (or not) for undercover cops?

lsd303

lsd303

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2001
Messages
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(I did a half-arsed search for this topic, but from memory I looked around all over the place here for an answer to this a while ago & found not much/nothing.
I'm also asking this question out of curiosity, not paranoia ;) )
So, the question: Are undercover police allowed to take illicit drugs as part of their operation? My guess is that the official answer is no, but that those in power would look the other way if doing it was rescuing a potential conviction.
I'm just wondering - say they aren't allowed to consume illicits, wouldn't it be pretty easy to spot them when you've just offered them (your shout) various lines, a pill, some acid, G or even a cone and they say "nah thanks man, I'll have a beer though"? I'm just wondering if the current system is naive/dumb enough to have this situation exist.
There was a guy I was in contact with about 4 years ago who I saw inject whizz/MDMA several times & get obviously wasted. I lost contact with him, but a few months later I heard through the grapevine that he was an undercover. (My source for that info was a (good friend) meth junkie who has bouts of paranoid psychosis, so I dunno what to make of that 'evidence'.
Anyway - can they use on the job or can't they?
 
Don't take this for 100% gospel.. as i'm trying to recall this from memory.
I believe the simple answer is Yes.
They can do anything to secure a conviction.
If you were caught by one of these individuals and you were trying to argue your way out of it saying you were setup I'm sure that is going to be a very very hard thing to proove.
I believe a police officer will always hold sway in the court of law. So unless you have everything video taped, voice recorded it's pretty hard to get out of a conviction.
F
 
I have a friend who's "Narq or not" strategy at one point was a line of meth as long as his arm...
 
I believe Qld police are allowed to break laws while undercover. This is suitably vague to not let the public know that it may involve drug taking.
Gone are the days of undercovers claiming in court to have "pretended" to snort coke in front of a room full of crooks.
Yeah right :)
I wonder what the Occ Health and Safety people would say...
[ 23 February 2003: Message edited by: Flexistentialist ]
 
Cops do what they want and can try and charge you with whatever the fuck they want, i know from experience when it comes before a judge who do u think there gunna belive? you or 6 cops all with their (bullshit) stories straight?
Cops are fucked
 
/.. and well this is a question kinda off topic but... in Australia if you ask an undercover cop if he/she is a cop undercover or not and if they lie aboout being undercover or not, so if you are prosicuted can you can say it's entrapment I'm protected or what..?/ anyone know what I'm on about..?/ what are the laws surrounding that..?/ N e 1 know..?/
[ 26 February 2003: Message edited by: Spheroid_C11H15NO2 ]
 
this is a question we deal with a lot at user groups.
my understanding: there is no legal impediment to them purchasing and/or consuming illicit substances. what they can't do is solicit and then use that as the basis for an arrest ie. they can't say "want to buy this pill", sell it to you, and then arrest you. beyond that, its pretty open slather.
interestingly, the Occ Health & safety issue is one of the biggest minefields in the whole thing. we have had off the record talks with officers who became dependent to (generally) heroin in the course of long-term, undercover operations. (bear in mind, undercover they usually use to describe an operative who is attempting to crack open a ring, requiring months of deep-cover work - these officers are generally arrested along with everyone else at final bust to protect their identity until the case comes to trial; plain clothes is a term they use where a couple of cops just go out-of-uniform for a few hours or a night and make arrests)
the force has often then just left these individuals to deal with their habits, not that i have much sympathy.
 
As has been said before, what is allowed and what they actually do are very rarely the same thing.
Now I will admit, im fairly biased, i fucking hate cops, but the reason for that is mostly to do with the fact that the vast majority of them think the law doesnt apply to them, simply because they know their colleagues are unlikely to arrest them.
Now, im no expert, but i always thought that a police officer who was on duty wasnt allowed to be under the influence of ANYTHING, including alcohol. However, there may be exceptions for undercover work. Whatever the case tho, you have to remember that most cops joined up because theyre the kind of people who enjoy lording over people and throwing their weight around - and if they decide they want to fuck you then one oway or another youre going to get fucked. If an undercover officer breaks the law to gain the trust of a suspect, then a good lawyer will get you off on entrapment, however a court will ALWAYS believe the word of a police officer over any defendant because the the entire justice system hinges on the fact that those who uphold the law are honest and trustworthy, etc.
Basically, whatever the laws do or do not say about what lengths police may go to inthe pursuit of justice is more or less irrelevant, because the official police record will state that everything happened the way it should have, whether it did ot not, and unless you can afford a VERY expensive lawyer, you cant argue with that.
 
I'm pretty sure the police can do anything to secure a conviction, provided that they aren't procuring the crime to take place itself (i.e becoming complicit in the crim they wish to charge you for). When police go undercover they get special permission and different rules, so i'm pretty sure they can have lines etc.
 
well, that settles that then, everyone from bluelight should just become a undercover **** officer so we can 'legally' sell/take drugs :p
 
Originally posted by RobertRollie:
Now, im no expert....
If an undercover officer breaks the law to gain the trust of a suspect, then a good lawyer will get you off on entrapment, however a court will ALWAYS believe the word of a police officer over any defendant because the the entire justice system hinges on the fact that those who uphold the law are honest and trustworthy, etc.

entrapment only exists if the officer procures or become complicit in the crime the accused commits. Should they commit another crime in the meantime (taking illicit substances etc) this may fall under the Undercover/Surveillance Acts etc in which they are given additional powers to break certain laws or they can be charged or disciplined.
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Originally posted by DeMenTia02:
well, that settles that then, everyone from bluelight should just become a undercover **** officer so we can 'legally' sell/take drugs :p
haha... u can't sell!! (90% of the time that'd be crime they'd be trying to get them for!!) and there are outlined circumstances in which they can take drugs etc... e.g if they feel their cover or life in danger
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Originally posted by RobertRollie:
however a court will ALWAYS believe the word of a police officer over any defendant because the the entire justice system hinges on the fact that those who uphold the law are honest and trustworthy, etc.
A court will take the word (not necessarily believe) of a police officer because if they didn't, the justice system would break down. It doesn't hinge on the fact that those who uphold the law are honest, it works because the word of a cop holds more weight than your average (alleged) crim, regardless of who is telling the truth.
Judges, lawyers etc. really don't give a rat's in the long run whether cops are telling the truth or not, but if they have to take the word of a cop over a known crim, it's pretty obvious who they're going to "believe".
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Police are wonderful people. Helping keep bad drugs off the streets, so that good people don't become bad people......and take bad drugs.
Naughty naughty naughty.
"Cast ye first stone sinner"
A perplexing paradigm... 8)
 
Police are wonderful people. Helping keep bad drugs off the streets, so that good people don't become bad people......and take bad drugs.
Naughty naughty naughty.
"Cast ye first stone sinner"
A perplexing paradigm...
BongoBongo u funni !!! :D
Click to expand...
 
I have a friend who's "Narq or not" strategy at one point was a line of meth as long as his arm
Personally, I prefer to give them the same size line except make it ketamine...
Click to expand...
 
Yeh psychedelics would be the way to go I reckon. Drop a 10 strip with them and watch em try to keep it together ;)
 
a couple of years ago, my mate was pretty sure he sold pills too cops and they ate them!!
how did he know?
3 guys came up to him and some mates at a rave asking if they could organise 1000 pills, my mate thought they were friends of his other mates!!
my mate said, we've only got 3 on us, but we'll organise the rest. so have these 3 for 100 as a test. each bloke swallowed the pill.
my mate and his friends went off and started calling a few people, then theywere asking questions amongst themselves and realised none of them knew the guys they were selling to!!
the buyers(undercovers) then came over to em about 20 minutes later and my mate just turned to them and said "your cops aren't you?" all 3 buyers(undercovers), turned the opposite direction and walked off!
sorry for the long story, but because of that i've always been under the impression undercovers are allowed to take substances while doing their job!! It's probably different if they're uniformed cops however!!
 
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