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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

NEWS: Herald Sun: 19/02/03 - Ecstasy Database

S

SeveredPsyche

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Messages
329
From the Herald Sun:
Ecstasy data base
19feb03
POLICE forces nationwide have launched a database to track batches of ecstasy tablets as they are distributed across the country.
The database lists up to 1000 logos, shapes and chemical compositions of illicit drug tablets seized in Australia.
Victoria Police, the Victorian Forensic Science Centre and the Australian Federal Police have been developing the database for more than 10 years.
Police hope it will improve the ad hoc information sharing between states.
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I'll be talking to everyone involved with this project while I'm at this seminar. hopefully i'll have lots of details on what this actually means.
(oh and i'll be speaking about enlighten in front of about 100 cops. wish me luck ;) )
 
Good luck Johnboy
I suppose that the database will be like the one that they said they were doing for heroin right?
I suppose they think they can find the big fishes if they can narrow it down to a specific area that the tablets are coming from.
 
Brief from The Australian:
"Ecstasy trail to be monitored: THE passage of ecstasy batches as they feed from the source to drugtakers around the nation will be tracked for the first time by a database that will also attempt to document the EFFECT DIFFERENT VARIETIES HAVE ON USERS... "
(Hmm that last bit seems like pillreports only with the backing of a lab test; what a pipe dream)
Personally i didnt realise such a database did not exist. This is possibly a majoy reason why in Australia people such as ourselves cannot ever seem to locate this sort of information.
Does a group such as Bluelight, Ravesafe or a Substance Users Association have enough standing to petition the release of what would be potentially life-saving information?
Obviously part of the purpose of the database is to monitor the flow of particular pills and what is within them, which would understandably give police a significant insight into distribution. (and thus they would be determined to keep this secret)
But there is no reason why the identity of pills containing non-ecstasy like substances should not be made available somewhere in a not so public manner, e.g: a web site.
Obviously the database is only for seised pills but considering how many get seised both in bulk and from small time users, there would be a significant number.
Such info must at least be made available to hospitals. IMO not to do so would be a crime.
What if a person was admitted to an emergency room and all that was known was the TYPE/QUANTITY of pill they took. Doctors could then check it on the database and on many occasions actually KNOW what substance they were dealing with and how much was ingested. (Similarly to knowing the type of snake which bit you so the correct antivenene can be administered)
The radio even described it as a "new weapon in the police's fight against the ecstasy trade".
What about a new weapon in keeping "young kids" out of hospitals and cemeteries by giving them access to greater information.
Even if it is not looked at as such, revealing nationwide the identity of adulterated pills means they are largely rendered useless as people will be less willing to buy them. Suddenly you have many local manufacturers/suppliers with truckloads of drugs going to waste. Consequence is they will eventually disappear from the market or at least remain in powder form for which they were intended. This is helping the police also.
Of course releasing these results will dispel many urban myths built up by years of police/government propaganda, but that is a change for the better.
In any event with a nationwide database now in operation, the same all over the country, there must be SOMEONE, ANYONE, who can gain access to such info and get it out there, where it belongs.
Then we can finally describe pills by what is inside them and not by the funky colours and cartoon characters on the outside.
 
wonder where the cops get there info from for the database. i reckon pillreports. wow....they are duplicating what we already know. sounds to easy.
i personally reckon pillreports should remove "location" from its database to ensure we get more value from our tax-payer funded cops.
keep 'em working hard....after all...we don't won't to see our lovely, friendly cops getting fat and lazy. i want value for money ;)
 
yeah i dont see why they wouldnt just buy pills off various dealers in different scenes/cities, just for the sake of knowing whats around and whats circulating etc, especially if they are not going to get anywhere by busting that person, but i spose i could be wrong, but it would be easy for them to do that in order to gain information.
 
Funny how each person reads the statement slightly differently and sees what appeals to them:
The database lists up to 1000 logos, shapes and chemical compositions of illicit drug tablets seized in Australia.
we
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laboratory testing
BT
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hey lab testing is great n everything but wouldnt they need a data base a little bigger than 1000 pills? im sure per year the australian arm of pillreports.com would get more than 1000 different logos, colours, shapes, sizes etc... of pills
 
Biscuit, nice to see some posts here from you again - you have been missed :)
From Biscuit:
Does a group such as Bluelight, Ravesafe or a Substance Users Association have enough standing to petition the release of what would be potentially life-saving information?...
Collectively there may be a chance but it would take some doing I’d say.
…Such info must at least be made available to hospitals. IMO not to do so would be a crime.
Possibly the only argument that would carry enough weight
I suppose this all seems like good news, but it is important to note that this database, or at least from the way it currently appears, is not intended to aid or even protect users. I guess you might predict it be beneficial if you support the unrealistic view that reducing supply reduces demand. But bottom line intentions are to catch crooks and reduce the availability of pills etc. It is a police initiative, not a health one.
I feel it almost impossible to conceive this intelligence would be distributed openly to users. It would defeat the purpose. If x pill was seized in Perth and cops were trying to get the rest of the ring in Sydney, Melbourne, wherever; any announcement could tip off these groups and reduce the value of this info altogether.
Anyway, a restricted national database may prove to be of little intelligence value to police. Big networks I’ve heard rumors about appear to distribute and launch a product (new logo etc.) in much the same way as do franchised retailers. Adhering to a set release date ensures no product is circulating early, and as simultaneous release is nation wide or where-ever product branches to, it is very difficult to trace the origin.
Then there is the question of security. If a police only database is universally available to all police, how long would it take before this info is distributed through a back door?
It’s possible the proposed database would also list quantitative amounts. This data could be worth much in the hands of dealers who buy big on blind faith, or have more than one option available.
Perhaps JB will be able to allay some of these fears after the conference - we'll see ;)
If such a system was instead initiated and run by independents, anyone including police could access the database. Harm reduction benefits are obvious, and police wouldn’t have to reveal what they know. Makes perfect sense to me.
The other obvious benefit is the number and variety of pills which would be tested. Police labs would likely rely on seizures, whereas an independent testing body would be utilized by all. Smaller batches would be recorded, and as pillreports now operates, samples would be tested as soon as they hit the streets –perhaps even sooner.
Good Luck with the seminar JB, and if you can, ask if anyone’s aware of Capillary Electrophoresis.
Last week I attended a seminar on "Aspects of the chemistry of the amphetamine and ecstasy classes of illicit drugs" at Griffith Uni, presented by Dr Jeff Rowe (La Trobe). Much of what I heard was nothing new, except for a really interesting talk on Capillary Electrophoresis or CE.
La Trobe Uni has achieved excellent results in the separation and isolation of amphetamines and similar drugs using CE with refined techniques and surfactants. When I asked if this technology is expected to soon replace reagents for in-field testing, “YES!” was the enthusiastic answer.
So perhaps the near future may see users with these affordable devices. Pillreport type boards may still be the best place for users to turn to for both up-to-date reports and repeatable, scientifically refutable/reputable results.
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phase_dancer:
The other obvious benefit is the number and variety of pills which would be tested. Police labs would likely rely on seizures, whereas an independent testing body would be utilized by all. Smaller batches would be recorded, and as pillreports now operates, samples would be tested as soon as they hit the streets –perhaps even sooner.
While I agree with testing as many batches as possible, one thing about testing smaller batches is they may be very region specific. Say, if Purple Mitsubishis are found in the Northern Beaches of Sydney, they could be completely different to ones found everywhere else in the country. Without testing every single one, we are putting a lot of faith in one or 2 lab tests.
Lab tests show exactly what's in the pill that's tested, and that's about it. It's possible to estimate distribution through further testing, but you have to come across them first.
I guess I can see a pillreports style problem becoming bigger:
- These are the shit, man, they've been tested and have 150mg of MDMA in them.
- These did nothing for me and 7 of my mates!! No way have they got 150mg...don't waste your money peeps.
I do think it is a great idea to test as widely as possible, but you'll have a lot more people putting their faith in looking them up rather than getting them tested themselves.
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SeveredPsyche, I agree with you in that region specific batches do present an on going problem, one which is to likely to get worse as importation is limited and more MDMA is made locally. But if Pillreports continues to be consulted by increasing numbers, it is also reasonable to assume variations in batches/copies etc., will be continue to be highlighted.
While there will always be exceptions, if an accurate reusable test was available to users at around the cost of a few pills, much of current disputing could be sorted. Anomalies or reported variations would be based upon scientific validation rather than speculation.
There will always be added risks associated with illegally sourced drugs. Lab quality testing won’t completely eliminate these risks, but if results are made available to the public, in terms of knowing what’s in something, IMO it’s the next safest thing to legalized regulation.
Ultimately nothing takes the danger out of using illicit drugs.
...just heard Johnboy quoted on JJJ on the impurities and testing issue.
 
POLICE forces nationwide have launched a database to track batches of ecstasy tablets as they are distributed across the country.
They will miss a few batches but I suppose it might still give them the general idea of compositions, general distribution, etc...
Slightly off topic but, I like JJJ for it's well rounded approach. I think it gives a great idea of peoples opinions on the other side of the 'fence'.
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i have so much to say, but i'm buggerred. had to be at the airport at 6am this morning, i didn't even know there was a 6 in the morning...
i recorded the whole days events, and will be putting some excerpts up here as mp3s/wmas. some i can't because the people involved wouldn't sign off on the recordings but thats ok. i'll do my talk first just to be safe, and i'll hopefully post a link to it tomorrow night.
in short today went very well. enlighten, and bnluelight, made it's debut into the world of conventional harm min, and got a pretty good response. and this is by no means the end of this, only the beginning. stayed tuned for more details.
 
*claps*
awesome speech. fucking brilliant.
congratulations on getting the importance of pill reports and harm minimisation conveyed to people who have influence.
there is no way that an intelligent person can listen to that speech and disagree with key issues that bluelight and pill reports where formed.
knowing that this sort of information is being clearly presented to the police of Australia gives me more reassurance that we arent going to go down the same drain as the USA, think the RAVE act.
if there is anyway johnboy you can provide a recording which allows me to hear the questions and answers near the end more clearly, id appreciate it.
once again, well done.
 
thanx jb for the audio tape it was quite a good speech, it certainly opened my eyes in some context of what we are doing and strengthened my opinion of enlighten and yourself some more,
its funny that everything has to hit the top of the roller coaster before anything is actually done.... as per usual the street driven user groups prevail in implementing ideas and concepts before the government latches on to them to copy them...
 
as per usual the street driven user groups prevail in implementing ideas and concepts before the government latches on to them to copy them...
I've never really noticed how true that statement is.
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