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matchpoint88
03-04-2011, 01:21
Hey,

I was wondering what drug is best for actual muscle relaxation. I have been taking Valium for 2 years, but the knots I have that give me the most trouble are still very much there. If I stop taking it, the tightness and pain comeback quickly.

Obviously valium is just masking the symptoms of an underlying condition.

I have a BMI of 22, am extremely lean, and eat healthy, however I play a number of sports which take a toll on my body.

The only muscle relaxer I have ever tried is valium, also Xanax if that even counts.

My question is, is there a muscle relaxer out there that might have the chance of not just masking the symptoms but actually releasing these tense muscles and letting the knots be massaged out?

Thanks!
MJ

TheAzo
03-04-2011, 01:53
Soma/Carisoprodol might be better for your purposes, but i'm not sure how much better it would be than valium.

AfterGlow
03-04-2011, 02:10
I was wondering what drug is best for actual muscle relaxation. I have been taking Valium for 2 years, but the knots I have that give me the most trouble are still very much there. If I stop taking it, the tightness and pain comeback quickly.

Obviously valium is just masking the symptoms of an underlying condition.

The only muscle relaxer I have ever tried is valium, also Xanax if that even counts.

Valium is NOT a muscle relaxer. It is an anxiolitic, as is Xanax. If it's helping you, it's only because your tightness and pain are somehow related to anxiety. Flexeril (Cyclobenzaprine) is a muscle relaxant. But you're better off just soaking in a hot tub or getting a massage if you've got muscle soreness from exercise.

Issac Sinclair
03-04-2011, 02:12
Flexeril sucked for me. Somas are inconsistent. Where is the pain?

hydroazuanacaine
03-04-2011, 02:42
Valium is NOT a muscle relaxer. It is an anxiolitic, as is Xanax. If it's helping you, it's only because your tightness and pain are somehow related to anxiety.
you are mistaken. valium is a muscle relaxant, an anxiolitic, an anticonvulsant, a sedative, etc.

K'd-OUT-in-AZ
03-04-2011, 02:52
Valium is NOT a muscle relaxer. It is an anxiolitic, as is Xanax. If it's helping you, it's only because your tightness and pain are somehow related to anxiety. Flexeril (Cyclobenzaprine) is a muscle relaxant. But you're better off just soaking in a hot tub or getting a massage if you've got muscle soreness from exercise.

Diazpam is not just an anxiolytic, it has strong muscle relaxant properties, more so than most other benzodiazepines with exception of clonazepam.

Although it is not considered a "muscle relaxant", its simply labeled a benzodiazepine. However it is prescribed for muscle pain/spasms but not so much due to its addictive properties. For me Clonazepam works best for muscle relaxation, more than any of the official "muscle relaxants"

But since the OP specifically asked what is the most powerful "muscle relaxant" and not what works best for muscle relaxation, diazepam/clonazepam are both out of the question.

The most powerful muscle relaxant from my experience is Carisoprodol (Soma). Soma also works well for anxiety since its metabolite is barbiturate-like. This also makes it addictive. But if you don't take it daily you should be fine.

matchpoint88
03-04-2011, 03:01
Thanks for the replies all!

Sorry I left out some details. I played pro soccer for awhile and over the course of my career dislocated several ribs, my clavicles, and messed up my scapulas.

To make it simple, it isn't soreness from working out, it is chronic tension due to injuries.

The area of these ribs and clavicles which I injured is in the area where the Sternocleidomastoid muscle begins. Over time this muscle has gotten more tense, to the point where it compresses cranial nerves in the region just inferior to my skull right in the mastoid process.

Compressing any nerves of course makes for a lot of pain symptoms that really dont exist but are just referred from the same vertebral level as my Sternocleidomastoid dysfunction, which for me happens to be between my uppermost Cervical Vertebrae.

In essence, I am open to any suggestions how I can relax these muscles, they are literally as tight as rope and have knots as big as marbles in them. Drugs or other alternative suggestions and methods would be very well received!

Ever since I have retired from sport, I have spent a lot of time flying planes, but the FAA took away my licensee for Valium, and I am willing to climb mouth everest in board shorts to get it back!

Thanks all!

Ignant
03-04-2011, 03:10
Soma is definitely the best imo
Its also the best high for a muscle relaxant

hydroazuanacaine
03-04-2011, 04:08
haha, k'd i know i just falsely corrected you in the last thread, but i think i am actually right here. excuse me if i am doing the same again

"benzodiazepines" is a chemical class of drugs. "muscle relaxant" is not. all kinda specific drugs qualify as muscle relaxants, from many different classes of drugs, including things like some benzodiazepines, some anticholorgenics, some etc.

valium is a muscel relaxant. it just has a bigger place in other treatments, so it is not thought of so much as drugs that are strictly used as MRs, like soma.

but the disntiction you are trying to make does not really exist, even though i certainly understand why you would think of soma or flexeril as MRs and valium as something else. in reality, caspirodal and cycowhatever are actually "something else" as well. and they all act as skeletal muscle relaxants.

TheLostBoys
03-04-2011, 04:53
I have tried Valium & Somas & prefer Somas as a muscle relaxant. You stated that you have knots size of marbles & I dont think any muscle relaxant will release those knots. What you need is a professional massage therapist.

purple_cloud
03-04-2011, 04:57
Did you try asking a doctor which would be best? I've heard great things about Soma, but my dr told me that for specific types of spasms Flexeril is much better, and it depends on the situation. For me flexeril (cyclobenzaprine) works very well for muscle spasms in my lower back, I dunno what I'd do without it.

lostNfound
03-04-2011, 05:14
Baclofen works a treat for relaxing muscles.

matchpoint88
03-04-2011, 06:12
Wow thanks for all the tips. I def need to find a massage therapist once I start trying new meds.

My GP doc lives about 1,000 miles away from me, I spend my year between a few places. Regrettably my only doc where I am now is a psych who won't even talk about this stuff.

I'm hoping to fly down south this week to see my GP. The only problem is he is in love with Benzos. I am not lying when I say he has written a Benzo script for 75% of the people I know that have seen him.

He thinks anxiety is the answer to everything, blah, i'm sure I can convince to at least let me try felx or soma.

Can you drink on soma or Flexeril? I drink on benzos all the time and only once have I had a problem, then again I was an idiot in college at the time with a frat. :/

thanks
m.j.

K'd-OUT-in-AZ
03-04-2011, 06:23
Wow thanks for all the tips. I def need to find a massage therapist once I start trying new meds.

My GP doc lives about 1,000 miles away from me, I spend my year between a few places. Regrettably my only doc where I am now is a psych who won't even talk about this stuff.

I'm hoping to fly down south this week to see my GP. The only problem is he is in love with Benzos. I am not lying when I say he has written a Benzo script for 75% of the people I know that have seen him.

He thinks anxiety is the answer to everything, blah, i'm sure I can convince to at least let me try felx or soma.

Can you drink on soma or Flexeril? I drink on benzos all the time and only once have I had a problem, then again I was an idiot in college at the time with a frat. :/

thanks
m.j.

I don't think your going to get muscle relaxers like Soma or Flexeril from a psychiatrist. They don't deal with muscle pain, just psychological problems. They have little experience with any other practices than psychiatry. At least none of the 5 or 6 psychs I've been to would never do anything like prescribe Soma for muscle pain. I asked one of my psychs, don't remember which and he just laughed. I was dead serious. I love Soma and my general practitioner and family doc won't give it to me because they consider it a narcotic. That's why I decided to ask my psych. He laughed and changed the subject.

TheLostBoys
03-04-2011, 06:29
I don't think your going to get muscle relaxers like Soma or Flexeril from a psychiatrist. They don't deal with muscle pain, just psychological problems. They have little experience with any other practices than psychiatry. At least none of the 5 or 6 psychs I've been to would never do anything like prescribe Soma for muscle pain. I asked one of my psychs, don't remember which and he just laughed. I was dead serious. I love Soma and my general practitioner and family doc won't give it to me because they consider it a narcotic. That's why I decided to ask my psych. He laughed and changed the subject.



Soma is a great pill for relaxing the muscles but I find it ludicrous that doctors see Soma as a narcotic.

TheAzo
03-04-2011, 06:31
Soma and alcohol is much more consistent and predictable than benzos and alcohol.

Soma's effects stack with alcohol (I find the two to be similar in a lot of ways), but they seem to add to the effects of alcohol, instead of multiplying the effects of alcohol like benzos do.

Like, I would never feel comfortable popping some xanax or valium and then going out for a few drinks; you can take a dose of a benzo, and feel almost sober, but with only a couple beers, be completely plastered and acting like a moron.
I've recently been taking a soma before I go out drinking, and drinking less than usual - in order to get just as "drunk", but not get as much of a hangover.

K'd-OUT-in-AZ
03-04-2011, 06:32
Soma is a great pill for relaxing the muscles but I find it ludicrous that doctors see Soma as a narcotic.

I know seriously. In rehab they called it a narcotic on a video we watched about opiates. Everybody addicted to opiates in the class started whispering to each other or laugh with their hands over their mouth when they said that. We all knew it wasn't and the video was bullshit.

purple_cloud
03-04-2011, 07:36
He thinks anxiety is the answer to everything, blah, i'm sure I can convince to at least let me try felx or soma.

Can you drink on soma or Flexeril? I drink on benzos all the time and only once have I had a problem, then again I was an idiot in college at the time with a frat. :/

thanks
m.j.

Muscle relaxer scripts are not controlled substances, generally if you walk in with muscle spasms you will get either soma/flexeril, whatever the doctor thinks is best. It's worth asking him, they are useful to have around if you get a bad spasm every so often.

You shouldn't drink on soma nor flexeril, both make you drowsy and you should avoid adding another CNS depressant (alcohol) to the mix. You can't really abuse muscle relaxers IMO (I don't, maybe others disagree on this). You would only take the muscle relaxer when you were feeling bad, not daily, so you just definitely wouldn't take it if you planned to drink.

TheLostBoys
03-04-2011, 07:45
I know seriously. In rehab they called it a narcotic on a video we watched about opiates. Everybody addicted to opiates in the class started whispering to each other or laugh with their hands over their mouth when they said that. We all knew it wasn't and the video was bullshit.



LoL, yeah......seems like there is a conspiracy to make every pill that makes you feel good in any way, even if there is a remote possibility that you crack a smile from using a pill, the DEA comes along & schedules it.

TheLostBoys
03-04-2011, 07:49
Muscle relaxer scripts are not controlled substances, generally if you walk in with muscle spasms you will get either soma/flexeril, whatever the doctor thinks is best. It's worth asking him, they are useful to have around if you get a bad spasm every so often.

You shouldn't drink on soma nor flexeril, both make you drowsy and you should avoid adding another CNS depressant (alcohol) to the mix. You can't really abuse muscle relaxers IMO (I don't, maybe others disagree on this). You would only take the muscle relaxer when you were feeling bad, not daily, so you just definitely wouldn't take it if you planned to drink.



Somas can be very addicting.......they are a great combo along with my Vicodin. If I take 1 Vicodin for my back pain, they dont work as good as they use to but when I ass a Soma with the Vicodin, it works great!

kokaino
03-04-2011, 18:48
Out of the benzos, tetrazepam is the best muscle relaxant - but unfortunately it's not commercially available in the US or Canada.

Other then that, diazepam or lorazepam out of the ones available on the US market. Clonazepam is not too shabby either.

Some of the hypnotic benzos available in the US like temazepam and flurazepam are great muscle relaxants aswell, but its doubtful you'll get those for that purpose.

But Flexeril and Soma are great muscle relaxants too, and they aren't controlled drugs. Well at least Flexeril isn't and Soma isn't in most states either.

'medicine cabinet'
03-04-2011, 19:02
^interesting about this tetrazepam...is it similar to valium and is it unsched in the us?

its funny this thread was the first thing i saw as i was going to basically ask this same question about a good skeletal muscle relaxant. ive busted myself up pretty well of years of playing lacrosse and running track when i was younger and i have knots through my shoulders. feels like i may even have TMJ bc it causes me migraines sometimes in the mornings, as if i have been clenching my teeth all night.

soma works well indeed, but after taking a ton of it this past summer bc of a car accident i was in and the dr gave me loads of it, so i was taking a bunch everyday for the pain but also because it was a good buzz when mixed with my daily methadone dose. the only thing i didnt like was it made me feel kinda drunk, or sloppy you can say.

i have flexeril as well from the same accident but it made me feel waaaay too drowsy. Valium is great as a muscle relaxant, in fact my cousin got a rx for it when he pulled something in his shoulder. they opted to give him that instead of a narcotic pain med so it does work to a degree, but there has got to be something that will relax the muscles more without causing the oversedation from taking too much valium. plus the half life, good lord it lasts forever. '

oh and stuff like skelaxin and robaxin IE the shittiest pills and the only thing they will usually give you in rehab because they are so weak.

kokaino
03-04-2011, 19:07
^interesting about this tetrazepam...is it similar to valium and is it unsched in the us?

its funny this thread was the first thing i saw as i was going to basically ask this same question about a good skeletal muscle relaxant. ive busted myself up pretty well of years of playing lacrosse and running track when i was younger and i have knots through my shoulders. feels like i may even have TMJ bc it causes me migraines sometimes in the mornings, as if i have been clenching my teeth all night.

soma works well indeed, but after taking a ton of it this past summer bc of a car accident i was in and the dr gave me loads of it, so i was taking a bunch everyday for the pain but also because it was a good buzz when mixed with my daily methadone dose. the only thing i didnt like was it made me feel kinda drunk, or sloppy you can say.

i have flexeril as well from the same accident but it made me feel waaaay too drowsy. Valium is great as a muscle relaxant, in fact my cousin got a rx for it when he pulled something in his shoulder. they opted to give him that instead of a narcotic pain med so it does work to a degree, but there has got to be something that will relax the muscles more without causing the oversedation from taking too much valium. plus the half life, good lord it lasts forever. '

oh and stuff like skelaxin and robaxin IE the shittiest pills and the only thing they will usually give you in rehab because they are so weak

Tetrazepam is scheduled in the US (CIV). It is the best muscle relaxant benzo.

Other than diazepam, I suggest lorazepam - it works real well and isn't so sedating.
I guess clonazepam isn't too bad, but it's not great either. It's a great anticonvulsant and anxiolytic and I think thats what it's best for.

Try lorazepam.

lostNfound
03-04-2011, 22:10
Baclofen works a treat for relaxing muscles.

Have you considered this route yet?

K'd-OUT-in-AZ
03-04-2011, 22:24
Tetrazepam is scheduled in the US (CIV). It is the best muscle relaxant benzo.

Other than diazepam, I suggest lorazepam - it works real well and isn't so sedating.
I guess clonazepam isn't too bad, but it's not great either. It's a great anticonvulsant and anxiolytic and I think thats what it's best for.

Try lorazepam.

I think lorazepam makes for an awful muscle relaxant. Clonazepam is by far the second best to diazepam. Its a great anticonvulsant too which is the reason why it was the only benzodiazepine that was specifically prescribed for seizures & convulsions, not anxiety. That is what clonazepam was originally prescribed for until they found out it was a great anxiolytic as well. Its the anticonvulsant properties that seem to make it a really good muscle relaxant.

phatass
04-04-2011, 00:19
carisprodol and meprobamate

regfairfield
04-04-2011, 04:06
why has nobody said zanaflex....i used it for my back when i was in pt........its great...at first i had flexeril and got no value from then and also affected my sleep alot

K'd-OUT-in-AZ
04-04-2011, 04:10
why has nobody said zanaflex....i used it for my back when i was in pt........its great...at first i had flexeril and got no value from then and also affected my sleep alot

Probably because Zanaflex isn't that great of a muscle relaxant. I'd prefer Robaxin and Flexeril over that.

regfairfield
04-04-2011, 04:14
Probably because Zanaflex isn't that great of a muscle relaxant. I'd prefer Robaxin and Flexeril over that.

i hated flexeril...to each his own i suppose...thats why their are so many different kinds of drugs in each class

RedBaron
04-04-2011, 04:26
I like flexeril and soma, but soma makes me feel better (regarding recreation, not muscle relaxing properties).

K'd-OUT-in-AZ
04-04-2011, 04:37
That's because the metabolite of Soma is a substance similar to barbiturates

RedBaron
04-04-2011, 04:39
^Interesting, I think someone else mentioned that too. Still, feels good.

TheLostBoys
04-04-2011, 08:48
That's because the metabolite of Soma is a substance similar to barbiturates



I find the name brand "Soma" is a alot better than any generic brand Soma, do you have the same outlook?

kokaino
04-04-2011, 19:39
That's because the metabolite of Soma is a substance similar to barbiturates


Yes, meprobamate is a carbamate and has no relation to barbiturates. It's just as similar to benzodiazepines as it is to barbiturates.

Carbamates are known for their skeletal muscle relaxant properties.

Anyways, the best muscle relaxants available on market today are carisoprodol, cyclobenzaprine, baclofen, tizanidine, and various benzodiazepines, especially diazepam and lorazepam.

rangrz
04-04-2011, 19:52
you are mistaken. valium is a muscle relaxant, an anxiolitic, an anticonvulsant, a sedative, etc.

Incorrect, valium is a muscle relaxant, it is well known. (licensed paramedic in Ontario)

Best as in powerful? succinylcholine...it will relax your muscles to the point of stopping to breath.

I find cyclobenzaprine however is a good muscle relaxant for normal use.

kokaino
04-04-2011, 19:57
Incorrect, valium is a muscle relaxant, it is well known. (licensed paramedic in Ontario)

Best as in powerful? succinylcholine...it will relax your muscles to the point of stopping to breath.

I find cyclobenzaprine however is a good muscle relaxant for normal use.


LoL! Succinylcholine will induce temporary paralysis - I don't think that's going to be prescribed to anyone. Though, I can use some of that for a few people I'd like to get. ;)

rangrz
04-04-2011, 20:50
LoL! Succinylcholine will induce temporary paralysis - I don't think that's going to be prescribed to anyone. Though, I can use some of that for a few people I'd like to get. ;)
I know what it does, I use during rapid sequence induction. (Endotrachal intubation) I know a fair bit about allophonic medicine, having taken all the CF's medical training and usaf pararescue....but its a good muscle relaxant....a tad too strong maybe? :P

meprobamate is another good one, although the side effects of dizzyness, balance loss and general CNS depression can be a bit much to take during the day.

hydroazuanacaine
04-04-2011, 23:22
... valium is a muscle relaxant...Incorrect, valium is a muscle relaxant
say what? are you saying it is only a muscle relaxant? or was a misreading involved?

rangrz
06-04-2011, 06:40
you are misreading, I was quoting him saying its not a muscle relaxant, and adding that it is, without listing all its other clinic uses and effects, not saying it was only a muscle relaxant. I was trying to be brief. Its most def an an anxiety agent, anti epileptic, somewhat useful against acute mania and psychosis (I guess tied into anti anxiety and sedation) a good hypnotic, a bit of an anti emetic, and a euphoriant. To name its uses off the top of my head while high, I'm sure I missed a few.

Escapedysphoria
06-04-2011, 06:54
Like most have said either diazepam or soma. Flexeril and Norflex are useless, although Norflex potentiates opiates nicely

hydroazuanacaine
06-04-2011, 07:06
you are misreading, I was quoting him saying its not a muscle relaxant
oh. well you quoted me. but i got it figured out now.

TheLostBoys
06-04-2011, 07:43
Like most have said either diazepam or soma. Flexeril and Norflex are useless, although Norflex potentiates opiates nicely



I took Flexeril once & was knocked out. Those things are lousy, they made me groggy & tired, nasty feeling.

TheAzo
06-04-2011, 10:18
Yes, meprobamate is a carbamate and has no relation to barbiturates. It's just as similar to benzodiazepines as it is to barbiturates.

Carbamates are known for their skeletal muscle relaxant properties.


What site do carbamates bind at? I always assumed it was the same site as barbs (and qualones). Meprobamate looks sort of like an "unwrapped" barb. I'd never seen a separate receptor site mentioned for either of those classes of drugs. They all share the -C=O-N functional group, have relatively large doses, and are more "forceful" than benzos, and are not fully crosstolerant with benzos (you can have a heroic benzo tolerance, and still get high on soma/etc)

Barbs are as specifically nasty as they are in part due to their non-specificity. They don't just hit GABAA receptors, they act as antagonists at a bunch of other ligand gated ion channels. I'd assumed the carbamates bound at the same site, only much more selectively for GABAA receptors, and as a weaker agonist.

I'd argue that comparison of carbamates and barbs is significantly closer than that of benzos and barbs.

StaySedated
10-04-2011, 20:35
methaqualone, secobarbital, etaqualone, pentobarbital...

kokaino
10-04-2011, 20:41
What site do carbamates bind at? I always assumed it was the same site as barbs (and qualones). Meprobamate looks sort of like an "unwrapped" barb. I'd never seen a separate receptor site mentioned for either of those classes of drugs. They all share the -C=O-N functional group, have relatively large doses, and are more "forceful" than benzos, and are not fully crosstolerant with benzos (you can have a heroic benzo tolerance, and still get high on soma/etc)

Barbs are as specifically nasty as they are in part due to their non-specificity. They don't just hit GABAA receptors, they act as antagonists at a bunch of other ligand gated ion channels. I'd assumed the carbamates bound at the same site, only much more selectively for GABAA receptors, and as a weaker agonist.

I'd argue that comparison of carbamates and barbs is significantly closer than that of benzos and barbs.


Agreed, but that doesn't make barbiturates muscle relaxants. That was my whole point.


methaqualone, secobarbital, etaqualone, pentobarbital...

Sorry to break it to you, but barbiturates aren't muscle relaxants. They do not have that property - and if they do, it is negligible at best or their muscle relaxant properties were at doses that were far beyond the toxic dosage.

StaySedated
10-04-2011, 21:02
Sorry to break it to you, but barbiturates aren't muscle relaxants. They do not have that property - and if they do, it is negligible at best or their muscle relaxant properties were at doses that were far beyond the toxic dosage.

what the fuck barbiturates are definately muscle relaxants.

kokaino
10-04-2011, 21:06
what the fuck barbiturates are definately muscle relaxants.


Okay, prove it to me then. Find me one source. I've already debated this with K'd out in AZ. He couldn't find anything. If they were muscle relaxants, there would be no need for a muscle relaxant to be added for euthanasia.

Read:


Intravenous administration is the most reliable and rapid way to accomplish euthanasia and therefore can be safely recommended. A coma is first induced by intravenous administration of 20 mg/kg thiopental sodium (Nesdonal) in a small volume (10 ml physiological saline). Then, a triple dose of a non-depolarizing skeletal muscle relaxant is given, such as 20 mg pancuronium bromide (Pavulon) or 20 mg vecuronium bromide (Norcuron). The muscle relaxant should be given intravenously to ensure optimal availability but pancuronium bromide may be administered intramuscularly at an increased dosage level of 40 mg.

fryingsquirrel
10-04-2011, 21:11
Why do you need a muscle relaxant for euthanasia in the first place? Seems like you could kill yourself just fine with barbituates alone.

For what little it's worth I've always heard barbituates do not have the muscle relaxant properties of benzos.

kokaino
10-04-2011, 21:17
Why do you need a muscle relaxant for euthanasia in the first place? Seems like you could kill yourself just fine with barbituates alone.

For what little it's worth I've always heard barbituates do not have the muscle relaxant properties of benzos.

They don't. If they did, it would be far over their lethal dose.

Escapedysphoria
10-04-2011, 22:20
Soma, Diazepam, and Clonazepam. In that order