Bluelight Harm Minimisation? Why not Prevention

I believe some of the information on this site is good but alot of it does promote drug use as being a good thing. Sure you do have good information about post loading etc etc. But the best way for drug harm minimisation without a doubt is prevention. Because not even you know what you are truley doing to your brain, you do understand that it isnt good for you though. So why promote something and that is so experimental and potentally dangerous? Sure turn a blind eye and say " well there going to do it anyway " that kind of attitude is not going to do anything and you should be ashamed of yourself if you believe that. It is never to late to change. I beg of you to think about your future everytime you think of taking drugs like ecstasy and think not even you know how much damage you are doing to yourself each time you take drugs and think. Will you believe it was worth it in 20years time when you have done your head in. And i think alot of you come here for a safe haven a place where you can all make it seem like it is not that bad to take drugs when you truely know it is. Taking drugs is not something to be proud of, do something decent, honest, proud, feeling like that is better then any drug could ever be. Drugs can play such a huge role in changing someone i have seen it happen to many people who get stuck in ruts of drug abuse. Why dont you do something decent with the money that you spend each year on drugs like help someone with a disability that they have had no say in getting. Please for your sake think of your family, your health, your future the next time you take drugs you only have one chance at life. I pray that for your sakes when you are older in age your quailty of life is still good and you are not inflicted with a medical complication affiliated with drugs use. My thoughts are with you all.

That's pretty ignorant. It says in our site disclaimer:

We neither condone nor condemn the use of any illegal drug, but we recognize that illicit substances will be used regardless of their illegality. You basically mirrored that with your comment:

Sure turn a blind eye and say " well there going to do it anyway " that kind of attitude is not going to do anything and you should be ashamed of yourself if you believe that.Why should we be ashamed of that? It's the fucking truth! You can't stop it, and the "just say no" attitude isn't going to convince everyone. So for the people that still choose to use drugs, why should they be denied factual information?
Drugs might be bad (I'm not going to deny that - they can easily fuck up people's lives), but they have their good side too - if they didn't they why the hell would anyone do them? I could get up on my high horse and say "don't do drugs" like you have, but a lot of people would just say "why not?" and still do them anyway.
When taking drugs, most rational people do a risk/benefit evaluation - is the potential danger of doing this greater or less than the benefits I'll get? It's the same with skydiving - jumping out of a plane is no doubt dangerous, but the thrill of doing it might or might not make that risk worth it. So using that metaphor, you shouldn't see bluelight as a site that encourages people to jump out of planes, but as a site that encourages people to make sure that their parachute works so they land safely.
Also, you might want to investigate the difference between drug "use" and drug "abuse"... they're totally different things.
[ 06 October 2002: Message edited by: Pleonastic ]

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Abuse is damage and drug use is damaging your brain so drug use is still abuse. And yes your "disclaimer" may say that but i have seen in many posts on this site "yeah i was peaking hard it was so good" etc etc if that is not condoing drugs then i dont know what is?
[ 06 October 2002: Message edited by: JamesLee ]

That might possibly be seen condoning drugs, but that's not bluelight condoning drugs. There's too much traffic to censor people (we have over 35,000 members), and besides we wouldn't want to censor people even if we could.
Those that represent bluelight (ie: Mods and Admins) do their best to make sure all information they give out is impartial and neither "condones nor condemns" drug use. But that said, most of us have done them in the past and so at least subjectively we know what we're talking about.
Have you ever done them? Are you a medical researcher who's personally studied the effects of "drugs" (a blanket term covering substances which an uninformed government has decided to make illegal)? Have you ever used anti-depressants? A legal "medicine" (same as "drugs" without the negative stigma) which have undergone similar amounts of testing about the long term effects as ecstasy has? Scientists are almost just as in the dark about SSRI's as they are about MDMA - yet one is illegal and one is up there with the most prescribed substances in the western world.
I've seen you preach to people in a thread from the front page - equally the same sort of anti-drug "propaganda" as you're displaying here. So here's some sad news for you - your opinions won't mean shit to just about everyone here, because it's clear you haven't thought out your argument. You're a nameless, faceless blip on the internet world, and nobody will listen to you unless you come out with some cold hard facts. So rather than waste any more of our time spewing your opinion out and passing it off as truth, how about coming back to reality for a bit and trying to prove your case to us?

Before you are ripped to shreds, can I just ask - what was the motivation for writing your comments in the first place? Surely you were not thinking to yourself "I'm bored, I'm lonely, I'm stupid, perhaps I might search the web for a site like Bluelight and rant for a while without saying very much. Then I can sit back and think I've done Good Thing and go watch Video Hits and getting mysteriously hungry for Star Burst lollies wondering where you can buy that catchy tune they are playing now..."
My guess you are a concerned parent/friend/user-that-just-had-a-scare. Next time, please put some thought into what you are saying. What you have written is a bunch of generalist comments that can be applied to just about anything. Lets play a word game, and everytime you mention DRUGS (oh my, I said the 'D' word - no flash of lightening) I'll substitute... say... sex. That always gets a laugh, which I think this thread may soon become all about.
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believe some of the information on this site is good but alot of it does promote SEX as being a good thing. Sure you do have good information about CONDOMS etc etc. But the best way TO STOP STD'S without a doubt is prevention. Because not even you know what you are truley doing to your BODY do understand that it isnt good for you though. So why promote something and that is so experimental and potentally dangerous? Sure turn a blind eye and say " well there going to do it anyway " that kind of attitude is not going to do anything and you should be ashamed of yourself if you believe that. It is never to late to change. I beg of you to think about your future everytime you HAVE SEX WITH STRANGERS think not even you know how much damage you are doing to YOUR REPUTATION each time you HAVE SEX you believe it was worth it in 20years time when you have done your head in. And i think alot of you come here for a safe haven a place where you can all make it seem like it is not that bad to HAVE SEX when you truely know it is. HAVING SEX is not something to be proud of, do something decent, honest, proud, feeling like that is better then any 5 MINUTE QUICKY could ever be. SEX can play such a huge role in changing someone i have seen it happen to many people who get stuck in ruts of SEX abuse. Why dont you do something decent with the money that you spend each year on PROCURING SEX like help someone with a disability that they have had no say in getting. Please for your sake think of your family, your health, your future the next time you HAVE SEX you only have one chance at life. I pray that for your sakes when you are older in age your quailty of life is still good and you are not inflicted with a medical complication affiliated with SEX ABUSE. My thoughts are with you all.
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See how easy that was? I'm so so so surprised you didn't throw 'And why won't someone just thinking of the CHILDREN' why you are at it.
Lets petition the adminstration here to replace the whole of Bluelight with a big red sign that says 'JUST SAY NO'. It worked in the 80's didn't it?
You git.
How about you go research some arguements that have some substance and then come back and preach some more. You may then get some rather intelligent replies, arguments, and perhaps some people agreeing to your asssertions. Just a bit better than 'the best way to a cure is prevention' (well... DUH) then people won't brush you off as some loser that is having a self indulgant rant.
[ 06 October 2002: Message edited by: Soma ]

Wow ! Riverting reading.
Democracy and free speech for all !!!!!!!!!!!!!
No matter the opinion, the ability to express and counter express is a wonderful thing.
Well done Mods.
I want the finest wines available to humanity" Withnail

Nice one soma! Try junk food:
"I believe some of the information on this site is good but alot of it does promote JUNK FOOD as being a good thing. Sure you do have good information about PROPER NUTRITION..."
Recreational drugs are harmful and people will take them without fully understanding the damage they are doing to themselves. They (we) accept that. Not exercising every day, eating Maccas & binge drinking (both of which you no doubt condemn) and 50 000 other things mean our mind and body are not at their optimum. You might ask: so why add 1 more to the list? Well, because it's fun.
This site is about harm minimisation and discussion of a risky passtime without the stigma. A lot of the harm associated with drug use comes from the apprehension towards mentioning it for fear of people like you piping up with your extremely prejudicial comments, condemning drug users and stifling constructive discussion. I accept your point of view, but as soma said, what do you hope to achieve? You haven't come up with any suggestions and the "kiddies, just say no" line doesn't cut it.

this site here is to help people. you can scream dont take drugs as much as you like. You can go to schools and tell kids if they take e they'll die like anna wood. but the thing is people are going to regardless. prevention doesnt work. drugs like ecstasy has nearly trippled in use since anna woods death. You only need to go to any club or rave in sydney to witness the growing popularity of the drug ecstasy. sites like this that provide good and useful information to users saves lives. being told a bunch of bullshit lies does nothing.

JamesLee: This is quite a well thought out post, and it sounds like you have considered the issues here for some time. I don't intend to address all the points you covered, however I would cover a couple of points.
> I believe some of the information on this site is good but alot of it does promote drug use as being a good thing. Sure you do have good information about post loading etc etc. But the best way for drug harm minimisation without a doubt is prevention.
Prevention, prohibition, abstinence and deterrent would be the avenues supported by this point of view. However, it is apparent that none of these approaches to drugs actually works in practice. If Bluelight were to change the thrust of its message to "Just Say No", then our audience would be equivalent to that of all the other government supported propaganda websites: negligible. By supplying factual information with user accounts we aim to educate people. With an honest approach to this information, the overall feeling is not one of 'drugs are bad', but rather 'this is what drugs are, and this is how they work'. By virtue of their nature, recreational drugs make people feel good and thus their recollections and reminiscences of the experience are accordingly positive.
By providing factual information with honest accounts of drug use, it's easy to see how someone might misconstrue this as promoting the use of drugs. However, you must realise that Bluelight exists as an information repository, and therefore you must make a distinction between Bluelight as a resource, and the people who post opinions here.
That being said, the fact that we have a 37,000+ userbase of people reporting, questioning, learning and sharing experiences speaks volumes about how important this is to people. The passion with which some people devote time to Bluelight is impressive, and it's this passion that allows the education and harm minimisation information to be passed along to people. Without the interest sparked by learning new information and seeing real reports of other people's experiences, the harm minimisation message would be lost. People don't even read Just Say No anymore, it becomes lost in the background.
That's why Bluelight strives for a Just Say Know approach. We try to become more educated about what's really happening to our bodies... we realise that certain aspects of the science are not clearly understood, try to temper people's enthusiasm with educated moderation, and recognise that if people ARE going to take drugs, then they shouldn't be uninformed. By restricting people's access to information, you will NEVER force them not to do something... you only make that which is forbidden seem more enticing.
BigTrancer

just my 0.02c
i would say most people didn't find their way to bluelight unless they were already involved in drugs in someway.
The fact they already were taking drugs proves government 'Just say no' isn't working, also, this is not helping the person who is curious.
yes, curiosity killed the cat, but thanks to blue light the cat is much safer.

Props to you, DeMenTia02

yes, curiosity killed the cat, but thanks to blue light the cat is much safer.
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Whoah! A blue car!

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in truth i dont really know what i may be doing to my body, but thanks to this site and its members, i have a much better understanding of the possibilities, the do's and the don'ts.
i think its fairly damn obvious that the 'just say no' attitude has little to no effect. and as already said, most people who come across this site have already experimented with certain drugs. i believe without a doubt that the only way forward for a government in terms of minimising harm associated with druguse is through education and perhaps rehabilitation for those who need it. the present methods dont seem to be achieving much, the police raids in sydney clubs are yeilding severely minor results, and police/sniffer dog presence at raves causes many people to use more than a safe amount simply due to fear of being caught.
and one other thing, life without risks is an incredibly boring fucking life. more people get hit by cars or die from the legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol than most illegal drugs (except maybe heroin - i dont know the figures); and more die from allergic reactions to peanuts than from esctacy use.
consider the macdonalds hamburger. consider a glass of coca cola. dude there are shitloads of chemicals and adulterants in every fucking day food that are known to be unhealthy for the human body - does it stop anybody?
if you are seriously an avid supporter of voting against things which cause people harm, then look elsewhere, cos there are thousands more pressing issues at hand.

you fucking anti drug nazi's piss me off!!
do we tell you to take drugs because we think its ok?
NO!
Fuck off and get a life, go back to your friends who only smoke ciggies and drink alcohol because they wouldn't stoop so low as to take drugs, because quite frankly what damage i do to myself for a good time is between ME and MY BODY and has nothing to do with you or anyone else

Great reading :D
I swear u mods have a pre-written script for this sort of stuff to save time :D
j/k
You guys know what you are talking about and provide good logical responses, witha cool head might i add
Hats of to you :D

I'm a result of the "Just Say No" Campaign.
Here's a hint, No it didn't work...

I actively support harm minimisation both in theory and practice because we are living in a society where drugs are the answer to every problem we have. Now before anyone jumps down my throat.. A person is sick, and goes to visit a doctor, say for a bacterial infection. Doctor prescribes pills, and says "this will fix you". You then go home and take the drug, and get better, often in spite of the drug you are taking.
Dependance on drugs for health, wellbeing, mental or emotional problems is well ingrained in "western" culture. It doesn't make sense that there are laws which allow some poisons to be prescribed to persons and other poisons to be looked on as though they are the most evil substance on earth. It DOES make sense that drugs are becoming a substantial issue in our society when we are constantly exposed to drugs (like panadol, aspirin - which both are quite toxic substances) in our day to day lives. Rather than substances like panadol being re-scheduled, they now have INFORMATION on how to minimise the harm the drug can cause (like don't take more than 4gms in one day).
It is information like this, applied to illicit drugs which will help people to make more responsible choices, not a blanket idea of "this drug is good, you should take it, it will make you feel better, but don't touch this one because we've stigmatised it even tho it may or may not be anymore dangerous than this one i'm telling you to take".
[just made it a bit easier to read.. damn huge text block ]
[ 10 October 2002: Message edited by: MezZedUp ]

It truely disappoints me to see/hear of such narrow minded people.
These types of people (including JamesLee)are the type that sit down at night & watch "A Current Affair" & "60 Minutes"- 2 of the most one sided shows I have ever seen & heard.
It's programs like these, that don't show the whole/both sides of the story, that create opinions such as that of JamesLee and I know this as I saw it in my parents.
Their whole view & perseption on drugs changed once they discoverd my sister had a very serious drug addiction that came within a hair, of ruining both her life & our family.
I was always given (what I belive to be) a good upbringing, not a totally sheltered one nor was it extremely tough. Which almost destroyed my parents once they discovered the problem that my sister had developed. Luckily enough though, our family stayed strong despite suffering many a hard times of theft, abuse and much much more as we stayed with my sis through her addiction & her drying out process.
This was a huuuge realisation for me on what drugs can do not only to an individual but to all those involved family friends etc... From this traumatic experience I didn't just put up a wall & say that all drugs were bad & people should stay away from them because that is the easiest way!
I had only ever smoked pot but had been interested in this new "love drug" that seemed to be mentioned quite frequently all over the T.V & papers etc... Always being haunted by my sisters addiction I never tried the more elicit drugs such as speed, acip & ecstcy that my friends.
However my interest was still there to try X and it was lucky enough that I saw a program on the ABC (roughly about 2 years ago). It was titled "Ecstacy- The other side of the story". This was the best program to ever screen on the T.V in regards to this topic. It showed both sides of the storie- the good the bad & even touched on the ugly.
One part of it that is very prominent in my memory is an interview with a young fella that had been using ecstasy for i cant remember how long. He was saying how before he first tried X he researched every aspect of it. This has stayed with me to date & aided me in my decision to become an X user (not abuser).
I remember my first time it was December last year, and for approximately 3 weeks leading up to I searched the net reading absolutely everything possible on X. I would have to say that at the moment before I dumped my first pill I thought I knew just about every re-procussion of what I was about to do, yet I still took the plunge into the unknown.
I would have to say I did not discover this or a site like. I do not regret not finding it but do wish I had. This site is everything I was looking for at the time. A totally un-bias view of this circle and also a chance to discuss (annonymously) with people in the know.
I have now been takin X regularly (as well as experimenting with other chemical) since February this year & have not looked back since discovering sites such as this & pill reports. It takes a user such as myself to see sites like these as beneficial in minimising harm or trying to make a not so safe (as we are led to believe) practice as safe as it can possibly be.
My thanks and grattitude goes out to the creaters & moderators of sites such as this & Pillreports.com for keeping me so well informed as i carry & pass on that info where ever I go.
I would just like to add that I have met some of the most fun, friendly, amazing, & respectable people that are involved in such practises. Drugs such as X can be an extremely fun thing when taken in moderation but can be devistating if abused. I am an extremely carefull user, I regularly take time out from consuming X yet I do not need to stay away from the people & places to avoid temptation. It can be controlled & I most certainly prove that. I hold down an extremely good job & manage to keep all my mates on the straight & narrow also.
Sorry if this stretched out a bit but the brain was thinking & the fingers were typing it !!
Hope these words are of some help to someone & to that "JamesLee" I hope your can broaden your mind to be more receptive to all the facts.
Keep safe all & always remember...
"We are here for a good time.... Not a long time"
Words from ya Pappa
P.s No I am not currently under the influence of drugs I have just finished a hard days work.
Peace out

thats the most amusing thing ive heard all week