Way to tell amphetamine from methamphetmine from methcathinone from 4-methylaminorex

I am interested about the way one can tell through observation, taste, smell, taste of smoke etc (boiling point) what the gear in fact is.
This is what I know from what I have read:
Methamphetamine: Very bitter
Amphetamine: bitter and numbing to taste
Methcathinone: fruity strong smell
4-Methylaminorex: very chemical smell (perhaps due to extraction solvent and not to the substance itself)
Now the stuff that I've been shown by friends in perth has ranged from dead ants all similar smelling stuff of various colours (purple, yellow, red, white - all due to impurities ofcourse) to hardly at all smelling clear rocks.
When smoked, BOTH rocks and other stuff has tasted very similar.
I have read on here before that all of the gear in perth is meth in various forms depending on production method because it is easier to make than straight amphetamine. Is that true?
Now the most important question of them all is methcathinone. My research shows that the effects are VERY similar to meth to an inexperienced user. It is about 100 times easier to produce and any fool can do it with chems being readily accessible via any hardware/camping store as well as recipes all over internet. How do we know for sure we are not getting methcathinone in place of methamphetamine?
Any answers/comments relating to any of the above will be greatly appriciated.
[ 30 August 2002: Message edited by: Runner ]

As far as I know, methcathinone is comparable in strength of effect to amphetamine rather than methamphetamine. In my opinion (and its very subjective of course) methamphetamine is around 5 times stronger than amphetamine.

The methcathinone I saw was brown and liquidy at room temp. Did make me talk a lot, but didn't have any of the good feelings you get from speed or meth, just felt kinda pissed off the whole time.

Check out this thread:
Nanna cant tell amphetmine from methamphetamine
Yes meth is easier as it can be produced from pseudoephedrine very easily. Amphetamine generally must be made from more complex routes as a similar pseudoephedrine-like precursor isnt available readily. Although there have been lab busts in W.A. where amphetamine is being made.
The dead ants smell is formic acid; used in P2P syntheses. Meth or amphetamine can be made from P2P. Certainly that sort of speed is out there but i wouldnt have thought it the norm.
Saying that...Get yourself an EZ tester; or even better an EZ Xtreme tester!!
Amphetamine and meth go orange/brown with the tester.
Methcathinone probably wont have the same reaction; the fruity smell is well documented,although much argument exists about the effectiveness of these hardware store syntheses u speak of.
4-MAR is meant to have an opaque-ice appearance. Again i do not believe it will react with the tester as amphetamine/methamphetamine do.
Using the Xtreme tester allows u to DISTINGUISH amphetamine and methylamphetamine also(and MDA with MDMA/MDEA); clearly this makes the tester very powerful as the scope of substances it can conclusively determine as being present in the sample increases.
Testing "speed-like" substances also gives them an indication of strength. Stuff that has not been stamped on with glucose, epsom and the like will fizz violently and go very quickly to orange.
These chemical testers are infinitely more powerful than going by taste and smell; something which imho is useless and highly subjective. The chemicals used to make these drugs smell far more than any of the drugs themselves. And a significant number of chemicals are common to the syntheses of many of these type of drugs, and are not unique to particular ones.
(EDIT: thanks BT; but such a label would make u a messiah
[ 31 August 2002: Message edited by: Biscuit ]
[ 31 August 2002: Message edited by: Biscuit ]

^ Thanks Biscuit, you're a legend.
BigTrancer

Thanx biscuit,
i'll probably have to get the xtreme tester.
one thing about you saying that you don't think dead ants smell is the norm... every time mates of mine buy $50 bags before they go out, they show it to me. Now i've seen a lot of diff stuff and it ALL smelled like dead ants other then the rocks i've seen. That would seem stranged because surelly there'd be more people using the first method you've described then other methods with less accesible precursors.

Hmm interesting, ive seen gear that is pink, green, yellow, orange, brown, red, white, off white. In forms of gluggy, powder, liquid, putty, rock like, crystal, gel crystals.
i have had gear that smells like oranges, strawberrys, dead ants, vinegar(meth), that good old whip smell. Recently i smelt some that was i think like RAW PRAWNS!!!! haha i'm serious.
I had no idea there were 4 different kinds of amphetamine like substances, only heard of meth and norm amphet.
I think also a lot of distributors are probably trying to make their gear distinguishable - like pills having logos on them. Any one who is into gear on a sort of regular basis will know that certain looking substances at times have a good name in perth. eg yellow liquidish whippa a few months ago was fuckin hell strong, seemed methy even and then when the meth all dried out the yellow stuff lost that rushy meth feel about it.
testing by smell or taste is not a good indication on what you are getting, a tester is much better. like i said ive had stuff the smells like strawberrys and was decent and seen white stuff that is gluggy and stinks like fuck and have gotten a better rush off a can of coke and a mars bar!

Runner: that isnt something i know for certain; but others have advocated the dead ants smell and the inference that "can" be drawn.
Personally i have never smelled dead ants, i am not one for the garden, but ants contain formic acid and only certain amphetamine type synths require formic acid as a reagent.
And to the best of my knowledge no pseudo-->meth conversion requires formic acid.
Of course perhaps the dead ant smell is not attributed to formic acid as others have advocated; although this is unlikely.
I'll try and look into it for u.
Although i know of one bust that was producing amphetamine and formic acid was also found; this was in Perth and it could just be that the majority of stuff u have seen, whilst looking different, is coming from similar places who are utilsing the same syntheses and reagents.

I've also seen (smelt?) a *lot* of stuff in Perth with the dead ant smell so strong that it can be smelt, still in the bag, from across the room.

ok, i had some of the yellow gear thats around and it blew my head off, but not very long lasting, it smelt like the wizz of 15 years ago, the gear that has no smell & has lots of crystals is a good clean stone, where the stinky will give you a big headache, why is this ??

Because those smells dont correspond to the drugs themselves!!! What smells is chemical reagents and precursors.
Generally salts like methylamphetamine hydrochloride, amphetamine sulfate and MDMA-hydrochloride dont smell!!; try smelling some pseudoephedrine tablets; they wont that much as they are 100% pure pharmaceutical grade.
Strong smells are chemicals, whether formic acid, P2P, toluene, Md-P2P, safrole, alcohols etc etc.
These are not something u want to be ingesting; but we do because 100% pure illicitly produced drugs arent overly common.
Often its assumed strong smell = strong drug.
Its true in some sense, as strong smell may mean not cut with odourless chemicals like glucose and epsom salts. But does strong smell mean BETTER drug, NO!!
If u take two samples of uncut meth both approximately the same strength (this does not mean quality), the low smelling one will always be better than the vial smelling one, as the bad smells are leftover nasties and the low smelling one is much closer to being what you would truly call a "pure" amphetamine-salt.
Of course people often favour strong smelling gear as at least then u can be fairly certain it isnt overly cut and instead take their chances with impurities which u wouldnt normally handle without gloves, let along snort.
[ 04 September 2002: Message edited by: Biscuit ]

On a slighly off topic, has anyone actually seen 4-Methylaminorex (also called Ice or Euphoria) in Perth. And I'm sure many have been sold "Ice" to, which is just well grown meth crystals. So don't say yes unless you are pretty positive you've seen REAL ice in perth.

Bump

I believe, as do several others in Perth, that we did see 4-MAR here once in recent memory. (May 2001 or so and for the next few months)
Obviously this can never be determined, but the evidence is as follows:
(i) available across Perth is massive quantities; the appearance of it and its effects were the same across the board indicating the same source of origin.
(ii) about the same time a very large bust of a "dangerous designer drug known as ice" was made in Qld and involved Indonesian nationals; it looked similar to what was here. At no time did it get referred as an amphetamine bust.
And yes i believe the Perth stuff was possibly imported.
(iii) The quality and appearance was phenomenal; very long, completely clear and dry shards. Even better looking than pictures of pure crystal meth i have seen.
(iv) For such an incredible looking product the effects, had it been meth would surely have been the most amazing meth effects anyone would be likely to encounter. However it did not possess such expected effects and most people agreed the effects were more on a par with the documented (however inclusive) effects of 4-MAR.
(v) but the biggest clue of all was the reported Marquis test result from a respected bluelighter that did NOT turn the solution orange. This does not prove you have 4-MAR but it DOES prove that it isnt an amphetamine or methylamphetamine.

mmmm that was around the first time i used a crack pipe, i remember tokin up in my car with a few mates. the gems were large (roughly.3mm) and looked almost like clear galls, accept they ahd the slightly blue tinge. The taste was like eating a lollie, now sum of the stuff passed around as 'ice has a sweet tatste but u can still detect that chemi taste. The smoke produced was very plentiful compared to the 'ice' we have seen after that time, which gives a weak amount of smoke when smoked.
The substance i believe to be ice also made me feel like my muscles had doubled and i ahd no end to my confidence, not sure about the effetcs soon after cause i went to a rave and indulged in some other drugs. Was a great feeling nad would gladly pay top dollar to ahve again but unfortunately am still to see anythign that looks, tastes or feels the same. Guess it only purer meth shards going around passed off as ice, damn it

Hi, long time reader.. first time posting, hoping I’m keeping to the community rules. I’ve searched a few times and this thread is all I can find, and it’s quite dated. I’ve had crystal meth addiction for 2 years. Not at all proud, but do enjoy it. Over the 2 years I’ve never bought product that absolutely stinks of vinegar. Can any one tell me why, or point me in the right direction as to why please? Is it still ok to smoke from glass pipe? Is it even crystal meth? Thanks for any answers.

Nancycorri said:

Hi, long time reader.. first time posting, hoping I’m keeping to the community rules. I’ve searched a few times and this thread is all I can find, and it’s quite dated. I’ve had crystal meth addiction for 2 years. Not at all proud, but do enjoy it. Over the 2 years I’ve never bought product that absolutely stinks of vinegar. Can any one tell me why, or point me in the right direction as to why please? Is it still ok to smoke from glass pipe? Is it even crystal meth? Thanks for any answers.

Click to expand...

Hey there. Yes this info is very old. The 'meth' or stimulant landscape has dramatically changed since the last addition to this thread (2001, 20 years ago!). Smoking crystal wasn't even something a lot of people did in 2001. Some of the info might still be relevant, but then it may not be representative of the products that are available on the street right now. Even if they are the similar chemicals, they very likely have been manufactured using different methods. So looking for a single indicator (vinegar smell) might give you the wrong impression.

Using a reagent test is still a really great idea.

Heroin smells of vinegar

Nancycorri said:

Hi, long time reader.. first time posting, hoping I’m keeping to the community rules. I’ve searched a few times and this thread is all I can find, and it’s quite dated. I’ve had crystal meth addiction for 2 years. Not at all proud, but do enjoy it. Over the 2 years I’ve never bought product that absolutely stinks of vinegar. Can any one tell me why, or point me in the right direction as to why please? Is it still ok to smoke from glass pipe? Is it even crystal meth? Thanks for any answers.

Click to expand...

Nancy you just replied to a post that was made nearly 20 years ago

Might be a result of contaminants from its production (anhydrous ammonia specifically) but who knows.

When in doubt throw it out it (i just made that up but im sure im not the first to say it ).

^ I would certainly address these matters quite differently in 2021 than i did 20 years ago.

Right, now I officially feel ancient.