• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion

    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

SERITONIN - does a lack of it make you more OR less emotinal?

D

dropped

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 22, 2000
Messages
89
I was wondering if seritonin depletion numbed your emotional state of mind or fueled it?
I am almost certain that for me personally, that it numbes my emotional state. That is, when I come down after a big night and say a few days afterwards (like tuesday) I find that I lack expression and feelings.
The way I explained this to myself was that because your on a high that is fueled by seritonin, which makes your normal feelings more sensitive, then when you've comedown and your seritonin is so depleted that you have no fuel toward showing emotion.
I write this in correlation with the "tuesday blues" suicides that have recently become a trend in the US. Some people I was talking to think that seritonin depletion fueled this because they were extremely depressed.
(?)
 
MDMA Hangovers and Week-After Effects
The above link is from www.erowid.org - there's little discussion in there about serotonin directly affecting mood, however the description of the after-effects of MDMA seem to be just what you're talking about.
The following except is from the Australia/Asia/NZ/Middle East Drug Discussion Forum Main FAQ
15] Metaphorically, think of your brain as the engine of a car. Certain substances floor the gas pedal and make the car go faster than normal. This is fun. But in driving faster, you use up gas [serotonin, in this specific situation] faster as well.
When these substances wear off, you are obviously left with less gas than you would have if you didn't do the speed-racer thing.
With less gas, you can't drive as fast as you normally do. Therefore you operate less efficiently. Low levels of serotonin can be characterized by changes in eating patterns, sleeping patterns, short term memory and the appearance of depressive symptoms. MDMA produces its loved up, empathic effect by increasing levels of serotonin. If the body's "gas" [serotonin] is used up faster than it is replaced, then one is left with less serotonin when it is all said and done... ...unless you go to a gas station and refill the tank [supplement with 5-HTP, eat foods rich in the amino acid trytophan like bananas or turkey meat]...
...or put the car in economy mode to use the gas more efficiently [use of an SSRI type anti-depressant]...
...or don't drive as fast, as often [use moderation in usage / frequency].
Because this is purely mathematical it applies to everyone regardless of their prior condition.
It should however be noted that the lower levels of serotonin are not permanent [i.e. the size of your gas tank has not been reduced], but rather there is temporarily less gas in the tank than normally.
Damage may even occur to the engine if driven hard with no gas in the tank. Depletion of serotonin stores is one step in a proposed mechanism for the neurotoxicity of MDMA. It can be theoretically counteracted by using engine oil [antioxidants such as Vitamin C]. I must however warn that studies correlating MDMA with neurotoxicity have only been performed in animals and only using ridiculously high dosages / frequency of usage.
There are ways in which one can decrease the negative side effects of MDMA and increase the positive ones. Although no studies have been done on these techniques and MDMA specifically, extrapolating biochemical facts and observing the experiences of those who have done it support their practice. These practices are called preloading and postloading. The entire concept behind preloading and postloading is, extending the above metaphor, adding gas to the tank that MDMA is going to use up.
Serotonin as aforementioned is responsible for the empathic, loved-up feelings from MDMA. Adding more serotonin to your system enhances these effects. More importantly, it hypothetically counteracts the mechanism MDMA is thought to induce neurotoxicity with. 5-hydroxytrytophan is the direct precursor of serotonin in the body. It is sold in health food stores to help people with sleeping disorders [one of serotonin's roles is in the regulation of sleep, as aforementioned]. It is not a drug, it is an amino acid with a hydroxyl molecule appended to it. Supplementation with 5-hydroxytrytophan enhances the loved-up, empathic feelings and cleans up the comedown.
Hard come downs are usually generated by depletion of intraneuronal serotonin stores. The result of lessed serotonin stores, as mentioned above, are characterized by disruptions in normal sleeping and eating patterns, difficulty in verbal processing and committing facts to short term memory, as well as irritatiblity. Most notably the impact of low serotonin levels is characterized by depression. Supplementation with 5-hydroxtrytophan [5-HTP for short] counteracts these negative side effects by putting more gas in the tank and ensuring that you don't run out.
Hope that helps - there's lots of interesting stuff in that FAQ that might assist.
BigTrancer :)
Click to expand...
 
Hey dropped!
In my case, after a night of partying, I tend to get very sad and emotional for the next couple of days (ie. 'oh my, I will never get to see these people again. That is so unfair' :) ). Just small little things will make me depressed. Couple of days after Two Tribes were hell for me.
 
I thought it was possible to deplete your serotonin completely. I've heard a stories of people requiring serotonin replacement thearpy due to excessive, and I mean excessive, usage.
 
Research has shown that your mood is influenced in part by the amount of serotonin receptor binding. When you are happy, it is likely that you have more serotonin receptors activated. Positive events in your life (like falling in love, perhaps) cause greater serotonin release, increasing receptor binding.
That's from Dancesafe.org.
It's important to note that positive things in your life promote seratonin release, they're not be caused by seratonin release... What I'm saying is that higher levels of seratonin release are more often a result of happiness, not a cause of it (barring MDMA induced release of course).
The following can be attributed to seratonin imbalances...
  • depressed mood
  • anxiety
  • panic
  • phobia
  • obsession/compulsions
  • food craving/bulimia
Through a combination of the above, it's possible for seratonin depletion to "fuel" emotional states in users. Some people become irrtaional, unstable & anxious when thinking through or discussing emotional issues. They assume the worst, make big deals out of small problems, and even turn small, miniscule things that they wouldn't normally worry about into big issues for themselves. The suicides you've mentioned in the U.S. sound to me like people suffering from such seratonin depletion effects.
Personally I find that coming down off MDMA results in the kind of thoughts & feelings I detailed above ^^ and the few days afterwards consist of the "numbness" you've mentioned, that being a lack of feelings and expression.
:)
Click to expand...
 
its goddamn hard coming to terms with the effects pills have on yourself. 'numbness' is a great word to describe it.
i know when i lose that passion for life for a few days it grates on my mind. and if you're the type of person to take life seriously those periods of your life can be quite low. its hard to remember that you probably only feel the way you feel because you caned it for too long last weekend. easy to start disecting your life and your worth and your relationships and focus on the bad instead of the good.
pills are a headfuck thats for sure.
tony.
 
Quick spelling lesson S E R O T O N I N :)
Sllip said:
I thought it was possible to deplete your serotonin completely. I've heard a stories of people requiring serotonin replacement thearpy due to excessive, and I mean excessive, usage. There's no proof that MD** drains all your serotonin, more feasible IMHO is that you use a great deal of it. Serotonin has a number of roles, and I can't imagine the body continuing to function with no serotonin whatsoever. I am aware that over at dancesafe they say MD** "exhausts your serotonin "(or words to that effect) and there have been discussions about this in Health Q & A in the past. Unfortunately I can't locate the thread in question, but here is one on the topic: How much MDXX do you need before you exhaust your serotonin? Also, anyone who says they had "serotonin replacement therapy" is making stuff up, or there has been a misunderstanding of the treatment given.
Now, re: depleted serotonin causing depression and associated suicides. This idea is, I imagine, based on a premise touted by Dr's and pharmaceutical companies that depression is caused by 'low serotonin'. At present, there is no firm evidnece to prove that depression is in fact caused by low serotonin levels, just as there is no known cause of any mental illness. The premise comes from the fact that some popular anti-depressant's increase serotonin levels, at least initially. However, this is a gross oversimplification of the mechanism of anti-depressant action and the reality is that drug companies don't even know why their anti-depressant's actually work.
Suffice to say right now there is nothing that proves that MDMA causes depression by causing serotonin depletion.
Having said that, as others have pointed out, people do indeed feel crappy a few days after use, and maybe serotonin depletion contributes to that. Lack of sleep probably contributes too. Other factors may contribute that we aren't yet aware of. My point is that we need to be careful about accepting the premise that MDMA = serotonin depletion = depression and suicide.
If you read the Health Q & A you'll see many people with depression and other mental illness use drugs like MDMA - perhaps some of these so-called "Tuesday Blues suicide" victims had pre-existing mental illness.
[ 01 August 2002: Message edited by: babydoc_vic ]
Click to expand...
 
i find that i feel more emotional (generally more agitated, irritated, annoyed, unmotivated, and lazy) but show my emotions less. i bottle up problems more, and they escalate to issues more easily while coming down. 'numb' is a very good word to describe it!
a good indication of how pills affect people (in ways they do not usually notice) is when i first started working somewhere, i met a few people who i thought were very dull and generally rude, however interesting if a conversation could be started, but that rarely happened, they were quite untalkative, just not very friendly.
i later learned that these people were quite heavy MDMA users, at least once a week and often more. ive been working there 3 years, neither of these people have had pills for at least 6 months, one of them over a year. they smile, theyre friendly, theyre welcoming, they stimulate the conversation very easily, and its fun to work with them. i was very surprised, because one day at work, i noticed a smile on their face - it was a shock!
now, nearly two years down the track after my first MDMA experience, i notice that in all my staff evaluations, it says "needs to smile more" or "needs to be friendlier" and etc. something is telling me that im heading down the same fucking track! while feeling bored and irritated at work, i am always willing to talk to other staff, have no problems with them and smile etc, but i just think that i dont notice how much 'number' or 'duller' my general facial expression is.
 
Apollo said:
food craving/bulimia
The following day, I always get food cravings & have tended to keep eating for the sake of eating (I have never once forcefully induced vomiting in my life, Bulimia for me is non-existant)
Does anyone else get food cravings? I know lots of people tend to NOT eat properly for a day or two following.... I tend to be the opposite. I usually try to eat healthy foods as well & Supplament with 5-HTP & vitamins/anti-oxidants
Click to expand...
 
melancholic: maybe we just use up too many of our smiles while we're on it and just have none left for work.
similar work experiences though. when i started a new full time job with a bunch of 'straights' i felt that i was never really being myself. because i came in all exhausted after a few fat weekends and kept to myself more than i would usually. i'd just mope around with that blank , numb look on my dial. and then i assumed that they assumed i was like that all the time, a pretty quiet sort of guy. so i just seemed to stay that way. and when i'd try and get more involved i got the feeling they thought i was a bit of a nutter. so i just got myself fired. :)
and later i would wonder if their assumed impressions of me were accurate, or if i'd just been totally off the ball and put thoughts in their own heads for them. and wonder if i'd just headfucked myself completely, while my coming and going hardly caused any of them a thought in the world. hehe.
but yeah back on topic sorta i think that stuff all ties in with the anxiety symptom. i think that all the pills i was popping made me more anxious to 'appear' normal and make friends with my new workmates. instead of just 'being' normal and making friends with them in due time as you would normally.
okay mods, instead of all the happy, sad, angry, embarrassed faces, we need a completely blank, numb, face icon. devoid of all expression.
tony :)
 
hrm.gif
 
Okay, so what I could put together here is that so long as your serOtOnIn isn't very badly drained in the first place*.
You will most surely feel these "Tuesday Blues" which are characterized by perhaps mild to severe(?) depression. After such, once the serotonin has come to a 'break-even' point - the brain will then goes into a phase where it retains or conserves the 'fuel' ie serotonin and this is characterized through a 'numbed' state of emotions.
*If your serotonin is badly depleted to begin with, then your depression will be less severe during the comedown?
I mention this as it seems like a trend amoung my friends who have been using for 4 years that they don't get depressed hardly after they comedown. They say they just get zombied out a little and cope well with the initial comedown days. After that the week is relatively straight forward.
oh and that "numbed" icon iz perfect.
 
Originally posted by dropped:

You will most surely feel these "Tuesday Blues" which are characterized by perhaps mild to severe(?) depression.
Many people don't have any depression afterwards (like me), and some people feel extra good for a few days. So I think it is incorrect to say that everyone will feel the "Tuesday Blues".
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top