• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion

    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

The reactivity of MDMA

Fetish Jester

Fetish Jester

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 19, 2002
Messages
1,367
Howdy all,
So, I was browsing through www.snifferdogalert.com and I came across a trick to "hide" your stash. Apparently, you roll your pill up tight in a baggie, then put it in another baggie filled with vinegar.
What I was wondering was, if the vinegar was to leak into the baggie with the pill, what would happen?
A nice detailed explanation would rule, cause I'm a bit rusty in my reactions of carboxyillic (sp?)acids...
That said, what do we come across in everyday life that reacts with MDMA? (I.E not concentrated sulfuric acid)
I place you in my capable hands...
 
It is an increasingly well known fact that I react particularly well with MDMA :)
 
Think of it this way..
How do most people ingest MDMA? -> swallow it.
Whats in your stomach? -> HYDROCHLORIC ACID (a strong acid) of about pH =1. (and its frothing around)
Acetic acid (a weak acid) of which is present at about 3-5% in vinegar is not going to do much to the MDMA in your pill; personally i think it would take it a while for it to even dissolve the thing without any agitation/breaking of your pill.
Dont worry about it at all :)
 
Thanks biscuit, that's kinda what I wanted to hear...
But, I also wanted to know what the main antagonists are implicated in making a pill of MDMA intert, or does MDMA require very vigourous conditions for it to decompose?
I figure if MDMA dissolves in a solution of acetic acid, it wouldn't destroy the compound, cause acetic acid usually requires some sorta catalyst for any reactions at room temp.
But, don't quote me. My biochemical knowledge is little to say the least.
 
MDMA contains basically a tertiary amine and a couple of methoxy substituents on a benzene ring. These are very unreactive groups. Acetic acid is not remotely strong enough to damage them.
It might dissolve the pill, though, so worst case, you might have to drink the vinegar :)
 
except the problem with this is sniffer dogs are also trained to smell things out of the norm, so the smell of the vineger might further attract the dogs
i am not sure about this, just an idea
 
Actually MDMA contains a secondary amine and a methylenedioxy group attached to the 3 and 4 positions of the benzene ring.
(i tried to draw it but it looks fucked)
anyway is a -O-CH2-O- vs two -OCH3 groups
A couple of methoxy groups is a very different thing and would not be an MDXX drug at all; more like 2-CT, PMA etc.
[ 27 May 2002: Message edited by: Biscuit ]
[ 27 May 2002: Message edited by: Biscuit ]
 
Biscuit, thank you very much!
To clarify for myself a methylenedioxygroup is very stable, much like ether, and is increased in stablilty due to good old benzene's resonance, so there's no problem there, as long as there's no strong acid around?
*flips through "Big book 'o organic chemistry"*
And a secondary amine is also quite stable in most cases, as long as you don't add some pretty funky reagents?
 
The vinegar should be okay unless you bought it from a store. Store bought vinegar contains the extremely reactive element Jakozium that creates an extremely strong reaction that excites all around it.
Information about the element:
Name: Jakozium
Chemical Symbol: Ja
Atomic weight: 80kg
Reactions: Reacts strongly with MDXX chains and is attracted to Ch (Chocolate) Ak (Beer), and Ho (Whores)
Half life: 40 years
-------------
Thats okay Mr Simpson, we come from the land of chocolate!
 
Originally posted by Biscuit:
[QB]Actually MDMA contains a secondary amine and a methylenedioxy group attached to the 3 and 4 positions of the benzene ring.
(i tried to draw it but it looks fucked)
anyway is a -O-CH2-O- vs two -OCH3 groups
Yeah, but the reactivity of that group is basically the same. You're right about the secondary amine, though! I always thought the nitrogen was already methylated in an amphetamine, but now I think about the name (alpha methyl phenethylamine) I know that can't be right.
Guess I'll manage to get it right from now on ;)
Secondary amines are a bit more reactive, but it shouldnt react with acetic acid.
Click to expand...
 
Whoops, is my face red.
I said earlier:
To clarify for myself a methylenedioxy group is very stable, much like ether, and is increased in stablilty due to good old benzene's resonance, so there's no problem there, as long as there's no strong acid around?
When I conferred with someone with more knowledge in these matters, they said that any stong nucleophile will attack a methylenedioxy group... whoops.
But I believe that the answer to my question stays the same: As long as you keep your MDMA away from any exotic or lab type chems, it will stay nice and stable.
Click to expand...
 
U are quite right about methylenedioxy groups being reactive; in chemistry terms they are. Much more than methoxy groups.
However reactive in chemistry terms means reactive with things like strong acids, bases, nucleophiles, lewis acids etc etc.
Even Glacial Acetic acid (100%) will not react with your methylenedioxy group. There are syntheses which advocate the addition of HBr to safrole in GLACIAL ACETIC ACID; litres of it. Now whether this works or not is not the point, but what doesnt happen is the breaking of the methylendioxy group. (and thats with a combination of HBr and GAA)
Vinegar is NOT going to interfere with your MDMA; it will not even come CLOSE! i cannot stress this enough; its entirely inaqdeuate for such a job.
Chris V: check out the "my nanna cant tell an amphetamine from a methamphetamine" thread.
Shouldnt be too far down; i included structures of several amphetamines there so might give u a clear picture.
 
Cool, so it's what I said:
As long as you keep your MDMA away from any exotic or lab type chems, it will stay nice and stable.
Excellent!
Biscuit: It's great to know that there's someone in Bluelight who can give me the amount of chemical detail I crave. You're better than any textbook I've come across. Thanks!
[ 30 May 2002: Message edited by: Fetish Jester ]
Click to expand...
 
Back to the point, sniffer dogs would more than likely sniff out the baggie with the vinegar in it because they are trained to a) smell the drug (in small amounts) b) smell anything that is not usually associated with a human being, like ground coffee, eucalyptus oil, vinegar. I've seen a mate beenpulled up by a sniffer when he had a ball of wizz in a bag of euc oil! They screwed him.
 
Actually the point was whether vinegar would react and destroy your MDMA.
I think if the originator of the topic wants discussion to go a certain way it should.
Or is that icon indicating u are angry about what happened to your friend??
Thanks for the compliment Fetish Jester but it must be said i know a minute amount of all the information out there. And as for being better than a textbook, you'll have to meet fellow bluelighter phase_dancer; he's better than an encyclopedia :)
[ 01 June 2002: Message edited by: Biscuit ]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top