Rolling after Acid

I'm posting this in the hopes that someone can shed some light into a situation that occured a few weeks ago.
A couple of my friends had taken acid at about 9pm on a Saturday night. The trip lasted around 12 to 14 hours.. They got some sleep and then the next night around 8pm (nearly 24 hrs after taking the acid) they decided to each drop a half of a pill they had used before. That is to say they knew it was a reasonably strong MD type pill.
They began to feel some sensations from the pill around the 40 min mark, a bit of a rush, nothing special. After this, they didn't notice any effects from the pill.
A small group of us have done a little bit of research into how LSD effects the brain, and came up with a theory that the LSD's effect on inhibiting serotonergic cell firing would prevent the seretonin release required to experience MD sensations.. Check out the section under Mechanism of Action here and the bit under The Suspects here
I was wondering if anyone else had any insight to offer into this? Obviously the combination in this timeframe seems to be a waste of time, but is there any danger to it?
[edit] took out the possesory bit to the theory. Just for Dante. But we'll save that argument for a more appropriate forum. [/edit]
[ 06 May 2002: Message edited by: MezZedUp ]

Who's theory???

Having canyflipped well into double figures, i can tell you that the MDMA effects work FINE with LSD. There is no inhibition of effects. More like a magnification of effects usually.
Possible reasons why it happened? NFI.. maybe they were still shattered mentally, and the relatively low dose (i consider half a pill expecting to get balls out chopped a bit hopeful) wasn't enough to push them over the line?
Set and setting?
Have faith in the candyflip - it's beautiful and profoundly good :D

I have never taken acid by itself. Everytime i've tripped has been a candyflip. In my experience, the effects of even a weak pill seems to be magnified, if anything.
Quite possibly a set/setting issue though.
TheDweller

Hmm.. I dunno if this counts as candy flipping.. 24 hrs between acid and pills seems a bit remote for what i understand candy flipping to be. Course we all prolly have different understandings of what candy flipping is...
The pill they took was by no stretch of the imagination low dose. They had each been fairly off chops from half on a separate occasion (fairly well puddled hehe) and I doubt the setting stuff would come into this equation.
Umm.. anyone else have any experiences or ideas about this?

Just to expand on what MezZedUp is saying. We are not talking about Candyflipping here. My awareness of Candyflipping is that you take your pill either before or no later than say approx. 30-40mins after you consume acid. This would explain why the acid doesn't effect your roll, because the effect of the acid hasn't kicked in yet.
We however, are talking about taking a known strong MD pill more than 24 hours after taking acid. An hour after popping the only noticable effects felt were a slight rush. Food was not consumed prior to popping and set and setting didn't come into play.
I guess we're just interested to find out if this has happened to other people and see what the people in the know (points to BT or Babydoc) think.
Cheers guys~
DJC*

Yeh mabey cos the dumped HALF a pill. Half does nothing, should've snuffed it then they would've felt it a bit for a short while.

as far as i am aware, the brain has gone into repair mode... hence no effects from the pill...
i know myself if i take another pill later on in the nite, if it is too late, it generally doesnt have an effect... (me at two tribes DOESNT count..)

DJC* --> I was of the understanding that the acid should be taken first... but each to his own... Still a good combo! Does that combo come with fries?

Just a comment DJC, when 'flippin, it's best to take the pill 3-4 hours in. That way the acid is kickin and the pill takes it to a new level, and also comedowns whilst on acid can tend to be unfun. This way you tend to be comming down off both at the same time.

I have had pills (anwhere from 1/2 a pill to 3 pills) after LSD many many times before, ranging from 1 hour after the trip starts down, to a day after i have been tripping.
its always worked fine for me... so i cant shed any light here but...
did they eat anything out of the ordinary? some foods you eat can play silly buggers with pills. had they taken anything to make them sleep? valerian/valium/anything??? otherwise i guess its just setting, or maybe they were physically exhausted (yes, even after a sleep) from the acid the night before.
Andromeda

candyflipping works, so the theory that lsd's inhibition of sertonergenic cell firing would prevent/dull mdxx effects is pretty unlikely in my opinion.
i personally have eaten pills with, during, coming down off and after acid. the mdxx is only ever stronger than normal. why? this is what i've heard, by word of mouth...
ld50 is 12000+ ug... a solid trip is 200-400ug. due to this and other research, the toxicity of lsd is considered low to zero. but, for some reason, the human body hates lsd, and quickly sets about getting it out of the system. the liver, in particular, does a lot of work to get rid of it... along comes mdxx, and the body doesn't care to process it to the normal level, as it's too busy getting rid of the acid... more of the pill makes it through the liver and is metabolised, and more mdma makes it to your brain. thus you roll harder...
i heard that from an extremely well read and accomplished biochemist, but if anyone has contrary evidence, i'll gladly stand corrected...
had they eaten? if they hadn't, i don't think it's fair to expect much from a pill... picture this;
you're physically exhausted, mentally raped (the day after acid is always a scattered one), slightly sleep deprived and your body is low on vitamins, nutrients, etc which it needs to function properly.
i don't think you can expect a pill to do much...
or, if the above theory on acid/mdxx is correct, their livers would have been given a good work out the night before with removing the unwanted acid. perhaps their livers had not yet wound down from this frantic work out, and easily destroyed/captured/whatever the small amount of mdxx.

take it from someone i met at a rave 2 acid trips and 3 pills (none of the pills were the same) and taken nearly all at once is a guranteed fuck up. I felt sorry for the guy. Ive never seen someone twitch soo much and he was tripping out big time not surprisingly.
My point be careful with the psychadelics. not doing too much is better than being carted out in a straight jacket. or getting your stomach pumped. lucky for the guy the acid wasnt that good. where i come from if u had to take more than a half a tab u got ripped off.

Quick note of caution: Remember that while LSD and MDMA often seem to be 'safer' chemicals with large safety margins in commonly encountered dose ranges, they can be overpoweringly strong when taken in large doses and/or in synergy.
BigTrancer

If LSD is an agonist at 5ht2 receptors, and agonist drugs can cause down-regulation of receptors, and MDMA has effects on 5ht2 receptors, then is it possible that the lack of MD** effects was due to 5ht2 down-regulation? How long would it take for down-regulation to occur - is 12-14 hours of tripping long enough to cause down-regulation? (Me thinks probably not). Just an idea, but I doubt anyone really knows for sure.
[ 10 May 2002: Message edited by: babydoc_vic ]

Thanks babydoc_vic
that actually gives some light to understanding what might have happened..

^^That last post was me thinking out loud. It could be a complete furphy. Someone like DrugDustbin, zorn or fairnymph may have a better idea.

^^^
I understood that
I would never dream of making what you thought aloud or my theory anything more than theory.. god knows there's a lot we don't know about drugs and their effects, particularly when trying to deal with more than one type of drug..
when i have some more time to think about frivolous things like acid and candy, I just might do some more research and think the whole thing through some more. Then i might have a post in psychedelics or something. thanx all for your input