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HRMMM Think about it!

Leprechaun

Leprechaun

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Joined
Mar 12, 2000
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The situation:
A guy walks into the bar. He eyes a good looking lass closes in. He has her in his sites. His motives - sexual, his weapon of choice, a toxic substance that makes people feel like the world is all well. It lessens inhibitions, it is a central nervous system depressent.
He walks up to the lady and offers her this drink. Implicitly she knows full well what he is up to, she already intoxicated agrees. The implied outcome is already defined. She doesn't care in the state of mind she is in, sex would be great. Most likely she won't remember a thing, but life is good in the place she at, her fears are left behind. "Girls just want to have fun" don't they?
For the males:
I love the fact that we treat date rape as a such cultural thing! Well, its soooo cool now adays to go to clubs and date rape people! I mean, haven't you ever bought a girl a drink. Its just a drink, she is attractive, your being nice. All the while your subconcious is finding the best way to get her to Fuck you! Its a routine to try and get the girl in an intoxicated state then find yourself in bed with her then brag to your friends how you got this great girl into bed. Don't you mean you raped her? You took advantage of her intoxicated state, perhaps you too were fucked!
For the females:
How can you let yourselves be taken advantage like this, and then have the gall to laugh at how you got drunk and woke up to find a guy in your bed. Why is it implied that you can only now in this intoxicated state be free enough to fuck?
;)
I thought G was bad! Aysh! But rape is only acceptable when both parties are too fucked to care! :)
Well, as long as they are having fun. Its all fun and games until someone gets pregnant or finds they have earned the rank of DISEASED INDIVIDUAL.
Thats the paradox surround alcohol!
Now whats the difference with GHB?
So I say to you. Think about it! :)
 
I wouldn't mind getting date-raped by a chick & her friends. That would be totally cool.
 
A big difference is simply intent. Looking at the above scenario with alcohol; the unsuspecting girl has the chance to decide… ‘umm maybe.. I’ll have a few more drinks and see what happens…...’ If he decides to hasten the process he can get her a stronger drink. But she can usually taste it and so usually retains an ability to choose. Intent here is not perhaps so sinister.
Choice is the definitive word with this subject. With some drugs choice can often be easily and quickly removed (unless of course it is with complete consent i.e. both parties agree, know the drug etc.) Given otherwise it is no different than someone giving you some other drug instead of what you said yes to.
It comes down to intent. Is it to get high with someone in hope, or a deliberate plan to deny choice - fuck all of a grey area in my opinion.
 
The idea that this post focuses primarily upon is the concept of date-rape. It is condoned implicitly within our society under the guise of good fun intoxication.
I disagree however, choice is not relevent. The idea of date-rape in the above context is independent of choice. The concept of choice is blurred when moving between states of conciousness in which choice is made. ie - Concious choice outside joyful alcohol intoxication and concious choice inside joyful
alcohol intoxication. The concious states differ and therefore choice as a concious decision differs in both states.
http://www.ksu.edu/counseling/daterape.html#Alcohol%20and%20Rape
http://www.mint.net/rrs/DateRapeDrugs.htm
http://www.ou.edu/womensoc/date-rape-drugs.htm
CONCLUSION:
There is no difference between GHB and alcohol when it comes to date-rape, independent of whether you are aware of what your are ingesting.
NOTE: The language used in the above posts was to help accentuate any method used in date rape as a dirty and villanous act. ;) Hence the many "f$*ks". I apologise for my language! :)
[ 21 April 2002: Message edited by: Leprechaun ]
 
If a chick gets pissed, and willingly accepts drinks of a lad, then goes home with him and wakes up the next morning regretting it, then she should learn a lesson from that.
If a lad puts some G into a ladies drink and gives it to her, and she doesn't know she's drinking it, then goes home and they make the beast with two backs, then it's daterape. Why? Because she didnt willingly take the G, and it would no doubt have had an affect on her inhibitions and decision making.
Anyone who administers G to someone without their knowing should be shot... Sick of ppl giving G a bad name :/
 
I'm with anfalicious on this one.
"But rape is only acceptable when both parties are too fucked to care"
Rape is totally unacceptable under any circumstances!
 
anfalicious, you hit the nail right on the head.
GHB, you can control. Alcohol, you can control. GHB and alcohol = PASS OUT AND NOT KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON.
I see where you are coming from though Leprechaun, and some people are soooooo stupid when it comes to being careful with this issue. Personally, when people drink too much, or just go overboard and bad things happen it's their own fault, I don't have any sympathy for them.
Also to the women out there: Women are sexy, women are not as strong as men, drunk wankers like to get what they want, so any type of drug that you are on wheather it's speed, alcohol, mdma you need to be very careful. There are some fucked up people out there.
[ 25 April 2002: Message edited by: MOTOMAN ]
 
Well, I am not sure if you guys really get the post.
Anafilicious. Are making a simple point or are debating my conclusion? It seems like you are making a point that I completetly agree with. However I am talking about the idea that "Date Rape" is acceptable in some cases of concious decision, but sometimes it is unacceptable when done by a concious decision. I am not really refering to the spiking of drinks so to speak. I am attempting prove that the concept of Date Rape is flawed.
The idea is that the concept of "Date Rape" is flawed in its definition. The idea of date rape after reading through those links indicates at any time when a person is unable to control themselves enough and makes a badly judged decision.
The thing here is: Alcohol is a date rape drug, but is legal. It should either be illegal, or "not a date rape drug".
PS: G is not what I am talking about, it is purely an example, it could have been Rohypnol.
Anafilicious: Can you define date rape including alcohol as a date rape drug. I cannot.
Here is my paradox.
DEFENITIONS
A is illegal because it is a date rape drug.
Date rape is caused through involuntary ingestion of substance A.
Substance B is legal.
Date rape is caused by voluntary ingestion of substance B.
ARGUMENT(2)
Date rape is an involuntary action. Alcohol is a voluntary action.
If Decision 1 is voluntary with the awarness of the outcome of Decision B then Decision B is also voluntary. Therefore date rape is voluntary.
The above is not true if Ingestion of substance is involuntary.
ARGUMENT(3)
CONDITION
If (DateRapeDrug(A) is true)
Make sure A is illegal
The above is false in the case of alcohol.
Here is where the concept of "date rape" is flawed.
Therefore, we should dismiss the act of daterape when caused by alcohol. Or make alcohol illegal.
[ 26 April 2002: Message edited by: Leprechaun ]
 
Date rape appears to be defined without any sort of drug involvement.
From Dictionary.com:
date rape
n : Rape perpetrated by the victim's social escort
n : rape in which the rapist is known to the victim (as when they are on a date together)
Perspectives on Aquaintance Rape is also an interesting read.
My opinion is everyone takes responsibility for their own actions. This means, when you choose to get drunk you take responsibility for what you do when you are drunk. Someone forcing you to have sex with them is their choice, not yours, whether you are drunk or not. However, if you say "yes" and rip off all your clothes then you have only yourself to blame.
If your drink is spiked, then that is a different matter. I don't think anyone would argue this one.
[ 26 April 2002: Message edited by: SeveredPsyche ]
Click to expand...
 
DEFENITIONS
A is illegal because it is a date rape drug.
Date rape is caused through involuntary ingestion of substance A.
Substance B is legal.
Date rape is caused by voluntary ingestion of substance B.
Fully agree with SeveredPsyche. You're saying a particular drug causes date rape, but actually a drug can enable a rapist by making the victim unconscious or incapable of refusing. Are you trying to argue that a particular drug should not be illegal because it can be used as a date rape drug (since alcohol can be used as one too and it's legal)? Is there any drug that is illegal only "because it is a date rape drug"?
Yes, alcohol is the big contradiction to all the antidrug laws for lots of reasons. But the only way for a government to fix it isn't by making all drugs legal, but by making alcohol illegal! As if that will ever happen again.
To me it is just as bad getting a girl drunk without her knowing, as it is to spike her drink with a drug. Hell, it IS the same thing. But when someone knowingly gets intoxicated they are able (in theory) to alter their behaviour to compensate for their intoxication, so they don't find themselves in dangerous situations. If they do not know they are intoxicated they do not realise that their judgment is impaired. Seems straighforward to me.
Click to expand...
 
Chaoscat. Yeah, that pretty much summarises the point I was making.
What lead me to this post was that a friend had told me she believes that GHB is evil and it is good that it is illegal because it is a "date rape drug". I don't disagree with it being abused, but what got to me was when she argued alcohol's being a date rape drug. Hopefully the listed posts and links will allow her to see a few more formal arguments against her point of view.
Thanks guys for contributing. ;)
 
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