MDMA's Effects on Memory Function May Be Long-Lasting

MDMA's Effects on Memory Function May Be Long-Lasting
WESTPORT, CT (Reuters Health) Oct 15 - While use of the popular psychoactive drug "ecstasy" (MDMA) may transiently damage serotonin (5-HT) neurons in the cerebral cortex, the drug's effects on memory function appear to be long-lasting, according to a report published in the October issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry.
Dr. Liesbeth Reneman, from the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, and colleagues studied 22 recent MDMA users, 16 former users, and 13 control subjects to determine the drug's effects on 5-HT neurons and memory function.
Recent MDMA users had significantly lower 5-HT transporter densities than control subjects, but former users did not. This suggests that MDMA's neurotoxic effects on 5-HT neurons are reversible, the authors note.
Current and former users were unable to recall as many words as were control subjects during immediate and delayed recall testing. In addition, the lifetime doses of MDMA were directly related to the degree of impairment in immediate verbal memory, the researchers note. Memory function findings were not related to 5-HT findings or the duration of MDMA abstinence.
"These findings will provide a cogent argument for consumers to make informed decisions about recreational drug use," the researchers state. "In addition, since the consequences of loss of the 'serotonergic' reserve in later life is difficult to predict but could be clinically significant, the present study indicates the necessity of...prospective studies of psychiatric morbidity in MDMA users to foresee future demands on healthcare."
In a related editorial, Dr. Una D. McCann and colleagues at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, comment that while the current findings indicate that MDMA can produce memory loss, "important questions concerning causality and mechanisms remain unresolved." However, the tools do exist to answer many of these questions.
In the meantime, they believe it is "urgent" for the public to understand that "MDMA may cause long-term damage and dysfunction in the human brain."
Arch Gen Psychiatry 2001;58:901-908.
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And the Mission is the Mouse...

Hrm.
Notice this?

Recent MDMA users had significantly lower 5-HT transporter densities than control subjects, but former users did not. This suggests that MDMA's neurotoxic effects on 5-HT neurons are reversible, the authors note.

Click to expand...

No mention what so ever that neurotoxicity in the brain may/can (sorry, not sure of the proof) be prevented/reduced by pre/post loading...
Another article designed to scare people. Fucking propaganda, shits me to tears.
PS: I'm sorry if this is a rant based on wrong facts... that's what I've gathered from reading and talking to people...
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Cameras ready, prepare to flash...

little info for ya dante*
"When an antioxidant drug was co-administered with MDMA, the diminished neurochemical response was prevented.22,23,24. In one study, the metabolic antioxidant Alpha-lipoic acid was administered prior to MDMA. It was interesting to note that the antioxidant did not prevent the hyperthermia induced by MDMA but fully prevented the serotonin deficits and glial response.23
A second experiment used ascorbic acid as the antioxidant. Treatment of rats with ascorbic acid was found to suppress the generation of hydroxyl radicals. It was further noted that administration with the ascorbic acid decreased the MDMA induced depletion of striatal 5-HT content.2"
"These results indicate that the scavenging of the free radicals produced by the metabolism of MDMA quite feasibly protects the brain against MDMA induced depletion of the serotonin transmitter"
"The side effect of neurotoxicity and hyperthermia with MDMA is well documented but the possibility that the hyperthermia is one of the predisposing causes of the neurotoxicity has been given some focus in recent studies.18,19,20" preventing hyperthermia prevented neurotoxicity.
id like to post the full 3000 word project somewhere but am not sure how to do it. itll look a bit weird putting it all in one post. any suggestions?
SirLSD
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i dont participate in any illegal activities, i simply visit this site to help with harm reduction

this is hardly breaking news.
this kind of experiement is fundamentally flawed and if it was used in a highschool experiment to come to a conclusion would get an F.

what bit are u disputing robo-t?
yes robo-t there were major flaws in methodology and interpretation of earlier studies of mdma induced neurotoxicity, but more recently they have finally been able to demonstrate gliosis- a positive sign of neurotoxicity.
SirLSD
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i dont participate in any illegal activities, i simply visit this site to help with harm reduction

Well to start with, the study was done in Amsterdam. Not a flaw in itself but i'd like to see what proportion of the test subjects smoked marijuana, or had smoked marijuana and/or taken other drugs.
Those are the controls. For a proper test to be done, they need to have at least 100 test subjects who ONLY take MDMA over a certain period of time, only in controlled doses and have an allotted time for taking it.
These and other factors need to be implemented for the study to be worthwhile.
Whilst it's good they are making studies, they need to ensure the studies are effective and controlled, not designed to produce results that will aid in the drug war propaganda.
I'm only new here so it was probably discussed before but did anyone see the studies that MDMA works remarkably for people suffering parkinsons disease?
I saw a show on discovery on it, it was fascinating.
Adikkal

SirLSD i'm sorry i don't know what gliosis is.
This study (i refer to the study in the topic) seems to be very similar to the rest. Obviously you are aware of the problems with this kind of research. For those who aren't my points of contention are nicely summed up in this study. (sorry no abstract)
http://www.dancesafe.org/research/memory-review.pdf
i agree neurotoxicity is apparent in ecstasy users however its extent and long term consequences are thusfar (last time i checked maybe 6 months ago) poorly researched. There may be new research i am unaware of. I am not saying all research in this area is crap. Just the study in this thread!
I also think that we know very little about the human brain. We know where our radioactive dye goes and what happens when we damage certain bits (simplistic overview yes) however recent discoveries such as those highlighted in the parkinsons MDMA study show how little we know about neurotransmitters actual functions.
I am not aware of any recent studies which have adequatly controlled and carried out a before + after study on humans.
Please correct me if i am wrong i have been away from this field for a while and my knowledge is probably dated.
Adikkal : That doco was interesting. I wish M. J. Fox would take a pill and come back to spin city! Mr Sheen is a poor substitute.
[This message has been edited by robo-t (edited 21 October 2001).]

Still, we should approach MDMA, hell, any drug, like it will fry our brain for good, even if there is a very small chance that it might.
Remember, "may not" does not equal "will not"
I know most people understand this, but i know some people dont practice what they preach.
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Bluelight was brought to you today by the letter E

given enough money and college sophomores as test subjects, i can obviate any null hypothesis or prove the converse thereof.
free radical formation and AFO's are not the only neurotoxic mechanisms effected by MDMA consumption, as such, supplementation with antioxidants will not prevent/eliminate all neurotoxic manifestations.

good post robo
interferon, can u remind me what a AFO is?
as for antioxidants not preventing neurotoxicity.....my references from my first post
22. Shankaran, M., Yamamoto, B.K., Gudelsky, G.A. (2001) Ascorbic acid prevents 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)-induced hydroxyl radical formation and the behaviour and neurochemical consequences of the depletion of brain 5HT, University of Cincinnati, Ohio. Vol. 40(1) p55.
23. Aguirre, N., Barrionuevo, M., Ramirez, M.J., Del Rio, J., Lasheras, B. (1999). Alpha-lipoic acid prevents 3,4-methylenedioxy-methamphetamine (MDMA)-induced neurotoxicity, Department of Pharmacology, University of Navarra Pamplona, Spain. Vol. 10(17), p 3675.
24. Yeh, S,Y. (1999) N-tert-butyl-alpha-phenylnitrone protects against 3,4 methylenedioxymethamphetamine-induced depletion of serotonin in rats. National Institutes of Health, Maryland, Vol. 31(3) p169.
SirLSD
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i dont participate in any illegal activities, i simply visit this site to help with harm reduction

i think whether or not MDMA does or does not cause damage, would we all agree that those who do their best to reduce harm (ie: SSRI to prevent neurotoxicity, 5-htp, amino acids etc) have a better chance than those who just take MDMA, do nothing aftwerwards and complain about comedowns all week?
Bit off topic I know, but I'd like to think this harm reduction thing does SOMETHING!

AFOs are active forms of oxygen, unstable and highly reactive. together with varying-valence metals, AFO's create free radicals of all sorts.
one of the 3 criteria for evaluating efficacy of an antioxidant is its ability to decrease AFO levels. the other is antiradical activity. third is chelation, or ability to bind reactive varying-valence metals.
there is some evidence (work w/Kirlian photo equipment, unpublished, put away the flamethrowers) that shows that MDMA-related higher cognitive function impairment may be of a finer nature than macro-level organic neurotoxic damage revealed with current physico-chemical instruments...
[This message has been edited by interferon (edited 24 October 2001).]

interesting. got any extra info? link?

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/issues/v58n10/toc.html
It's pay per view or subscription only, which is why I only posted the Reuters abstract.
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And the Mission is the Mouse...

Can I just for a moment discuss our response to this study?

Another article designed to scare people. Fucking propaganda, shits me to tears.

Click to expand...

This might not be designed to scare anyone. These researchers are probably trying to help people make informed descisions. By publishing facts, not opinions. When are you people going to stop peddling the argument that everyone is out to get you?? These researchers are trying to HELP you!!
As for those questioning the validity of the study, how can you conclude that it's flawed based on a 250 word newspaper snippet from Reuters? Just because the details weren't published doesn't mean the study was flawed. Keep an open mind, then criticise when you KNOW it's flawed. And this:

this kind of experiement is fundamentally flawed and if it was used in a highschool experiment to come to a conclusion would get an F.

Click to expand...

Has anyone followed the link and outlined, after reading the full study, exactly why?? I'm not defending the research by any means, rather, i'm trying to make you see that not all of it's propaganda. Don't automatically dismiss things that don't agree with your viewpoint.
It's high time some people grew up and accepted that sooner or later, there's *going* to be some really conclusive, credible evidence pulished that MDMA imapirs memory and favours depression in later life. To what degree probably depends on *YOU* and how much attention you paid to this research. Which, to my horror, most people are blindly dismissing as propaganda.
Fortunately some people in this thread have acknowledged that, but some earlier responses were pretty closed-minded!
Cheers, and party safe! :-)

I'm sorry, I should explain my first post.
The main reason I was shitted is that there was no mention whatsoever of the ability to be able to use antioxidants or other supplements to prevent neurotoxicity.
The article seems to be written like most other world media articles, in the sense that it portrays MDMA as this horrible mind killing drug. And yes, I admit that not enough is known about MDMA for us to discount any form of memory loss.
I just do not like the way the article is written at all (from a future journalism student's perspective).
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Cameras ready, prepare to flash...

luko it seems you have completely missed the point. although hardly surprising it highlights why people like you should perhaps practice what you preach.
how about reading the substantiating evidence i posted relating to my conclusion.
"this kind of experiment is fundamentally flawed and if it was used in a high school experiment to come to a conclusion would get an F."
BECAUSE
http://www.dancesafe.org/research/memory-review.pdf
the Reuters abstract outlines the study's methodology which is all that is needed to determine whether the multitude of problems associated with this kind of study have been controlled for. The reason i can be so sure? Because it is illegal and deemed unethical by the medical profession to control for it (take a non-ecstasy user and run tests, then give them ecstasy and run the same tests).
Soooooo unless this study breaks the law it cannot make a very definitive conclusion based on this control problem. the scope does not allow it.
there have been studies which go to EXTREME lengths to control for this problem. This isn't one of them from the sample size alone. *sigh* this study is hardly breaking news. in FACT! this kind of experiment is fundamentally flawed and if it was used in a highschool experiment to come to a conclusion would get an F.
please pay attention to posts so that people don't have to repeat themselves.

It may effect the glial in some way & possibly!! damages serotonin neurons.I believe this view is too simplistic. Dr O'Callaghan says that just because the drug affects serotonin doesn't mean the damage takes place in those neurons. The rewiring, he argues, stems from something other than injury. "The [pruning phenomenon] is not necessarily reflective of damage," he says, "just profound and long-lasting changes."
Now I think this is a more openminded approach what do you all think?
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**It's All Good**

He also contends that if MDMA caused nerve-cell degeneration, star-shaped cells would form, leading to an increase of the glial fibrillary acidic protein, or GFAP. "Any chemical known to damage the brain has caused an increase in GFAP," explains O'Callaghan. "We don't see that response with MDMA."
Please give us your thoughts
..........as I think we still have ALOT to learn.
But as long as we are learning ..........
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**It's All Good**
[This message has been edited by Scatteredasfuck (edited 25 October 2001).]