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Seattle_Stranger
11-12-2010, 22:04
Sorry if this doesn't belong in ED, but I figured since it's compared with MDMA in most TR's I read, I figured it's an appropriate conversation to have with the rollers! Yes, I UTFSE and BL surprisingly doesn't have much on kanna. No threads less than half a decade old anyway. Erowid has some good reads though.

I ordered a couple botanicals from a well known Shaman site, just out of curiosity and boredom really. I read up on kanna and the common consensus seems to be that it's comparable to a low dose of MDMA. When I saw that many people saying the same thing about it, and also reading that not only is it not neuro toxic, but potentially neuro PROTECTIVE!

So my order came in the mail and I bumped 100mg. I thought I felt some action going on, but nothing too beyond placebo. After a while I proceeded to smoke some on top of good cannabis. I'm not sure if it was the smoked hit or the insufflated hit, but I suddenly got a huge serotonin rush, very similar to the initial onset of MDMA!! I looked in the mirror, and my pupils were actually dilated! I couldn't stop giggling at dumb stuff, smiling, not crazy euphoric but enjoyable for sure. Colors appeared sharper, lights very bright, I was getting butterflies in the stomach and even felt some body high. It started fading after a while, so I tried snorting a bit more, I also tried smoking some more and it quickly evolved into a very unpleasant headache that I still seem to have today.

I read that just the right amount of kanna will get you off proper, but it's easy to overshoot the "right amount" and from there on it's very unpleasant. I think that initial rush I felt was the intended experience, but when I got greedy and tried to re-up, the negatives all came and then it immediately turned into a very post-roll-brain-fry feeling. It's also worth noting that I was very tired, but stimulated WAY into the night and early AM, long, long after my last hit. Couldn't sleep for shit and woke up feeling like ass. I still have a headache. I actually feel like I rolled last night.

It seems many people get better effects from some routes while others from different routes. Some swear by sublingual, others say insufflating, some say smoking is least effective and some say it's most. All I know is I got the rush after smoking, however that could've also been the insufflated dose kicking in, I read it can take a little while. I'm about to snuff 50mg and stop there. Perhaps that'll get me what I'm looking for.

Anyone else have experience with kanna? Any info you'd like to share?

Thanks! :)

MazDan
11-12-2010, 22:49
Im gunna try OD and see if they can help you.

robatussin
12-12-2010, 01:50
I got kanna before and have tried it. It reminded me more of a nicotine meets coca leaf rather than MDMA. I never used all of it and I had a smoking blend and a much finer blend that was the consistency of the real potent kratom extracts. I am guessing if you are taking it up the nose you have the fine powdered plant matter. I used it sublingualy because the idea of snorting plant matter doesnt sit well for me, I also smoked it. It seems although it is psychoactive no doubt, it gets boring fast (at least for me). The peak will never compare to other substances, even ones that remain legal and readily available. I am glad you got a rush though.....that urge to redose and the overdoing it killed the fun in it for me.
Maybe because I did not snort it......I also had a sample of kanna infused honey made for making tea with. Have you tried sublingual or oral ingestion?

Seattle_Stranger
14-12-2010, 02:04
Well I've been trying smoking, and I feel like it does a little something. I also snorted a little more than normal last night over the course of a few hours (had already been drinking and smoking weed), and I eventually did reach a rather mild euphoric state a little happier and content than normal alcohol drunkness. Great anxiety relief, decent body high where my joints all felt nice to move, and seemingly sharper/more saturated colors. Also, very nice stimulation well into the night. I should also note there are some mild CEV's that are pretty interesting.

I also tried sublingual and I feel like it did a tiny bit, but not much.

I'm thinking I'm starting to isolate the effects a lot better now.

robatussin
14-12-2010, 05:11
Mind going into some detail about "isolating" the effects? Did my post help you at all?

Seattle_Stranger
14-12-2010, 05:58
Not so much that I'm looking for help as much as I'm just looking for a discussion with current kanna users. I'm curious as to how others feel about it.

The effects that I've isolated are very subtle, theres a certain stimulation but at the same time a sedation, a cannabis-like euphoria onset with little warm rushes in my head and body from time to time and also the bright sharp colors. I've read there is thought to be some kind of reverse tolerance where you need to use it a whole bunch of times before you really begin feeling it. I do believe this to be true.

I'm not all too impressed yet, but I'm interested enough to give it a chance for a while. I wrote off kratom at first about a year ago, and now I make sure I always have a stash!! :)

robatussin
14-12-2010, 06:17
Funny you mention kratom, I just posted an extensive retrospective of my experience on that thread. Kratom is the most rewarding plant material I have ever tried (on par with marijuana). Kratom is only under rated by those who have either not used it correctly, or dismissed it as a plant that can not compare with a pharmaceutical opiate. Good thing you no longer fall in that class. Kanna is fun for about a week, as I just got samples along with the quarter pound of kratom (which lasted me like two years) I just finished the kratom a month or so ago but those samples never got finished as I felt I got the most I could from that plant rather quickly and realized it's not my cup of tea (pun intended)

Seattle_Stranger
14-12-2010, 12:13
Yeah kratom is just about one of the most fascinating substances I'm yet to come across. It's probably the most potent high you can get from the internet barring synthetics. Most organics you buy from the net consist of "Hmm, I think I feel it" highs, while kratom there's no mistake. I think the high is better than marijuana, however, I find is incomplete without marijuana. I like getting up in the morning, eating a hearty breakfast and then drink about 10-15g of kratom, waiting about an hour for the peak, and then smoke a bowl. Wham bam thankya ma'am, look out, good day ahead. %)

And I say I drink it after I eat because if I don't the nausea becomes unbearable within about 15 minutes and I puke it back up. It's hard enough to keep down in the first place. Also, to think kratom isn't quite as addictive as opiates, that's also a huge plus.

I've heard about people mixing the two and swearing by it. I have some kratom on the way, I'll gladly try it. I'm still trying to decide whether this kanna is worth it or not.

bwanajzj
14-12-2010, 12:46
Hey!

I used to work in an ethnobotanical store, where we had Kanna in a potent powder form. The extract was made from dried crushed leaves. I assume that it had been through some process of sorting the plant constituents during production, due to it's potency. Kanna in general does not contain a very high concentration of active ingredients, so this assumption is based on the fact that it was quite easy to get a buzz going from snorting/smoking the stuff.

The typical way that the locals of Southern Africa use the plant is to chew the dried fermented leaves, so in other words the method of ingestion is sublingual. The effects require prolonged chewing, as with khat and coca for example, and the euphoric/stimulating effects will start to show after a few hours of chewing. It is one of those plants that can take up to a whole day to get the desired buzz from. But then again, in places where it was originally consumed, there was not much to do other than hunt and gather, so spending the whole day chewing leaves was a fine pastime. I also assume that the plant is used as a tool in hunting and during long hikes, much like coca is used in South America.

The extracts available on the market really vary in potency, but if you can get hold of a dark brown powder, you probably have something that only requires small lines or tokes over a longer period of time to get the desired effect. Effects are very subtle, so don't go overboard, as you will probably end up getting a typical stimulant headache. I think using it together with mdma is a fine way to enjoy its subtle effects. But perhaps its worth starting an hour or two before ingesting the mdma, by taking little by little until you have a slight effect, then take the mdma and build on it from there.

Really I haven't had much experience ingesting it - have used it with success 3 or 4 times, and other than that about 3 unsuccessful attempts due to my impatience. As with khat and coca, take your time, and know that the effects take some time to hit, so when you feel like you have almost had enough, stop and wait, because it is likely that you within the next hour or so will reach the desired peak.

I also have Kanna in my windowsill, growing in a neat little pot. It is such an easy plant to grow(it is a succulent, so it needs very little water and can last for a looooong time without being watered or juiced up with nutes). The flowers are also very pretty, and can have an immense ornamental effect in any living quarters. The floweres tend to come very rarely, but when they do you can't fail to notice. I have over the years tried experimenting with different watering and nute application methods, in order to stimulate flowering. The conclusion I have reached is that when there is increased daylight hours, and a prolonged period of dry soil, it begins to start flowering. In terms of mimmicking their natural setting, I think this happens due to the following factors: during periods of prolonged sunlight, the soil becomes drier. In the Southern part of Africa where the plants are indigenous to, the soil indeed becomes drier during the periods of prolonged sunlight, and the flowering cycle of the plant is dependant on the rainy seasons and so on. The main way this flower spreads through the landscape is probably by breaking off segments, which are then transported by wind/water, and they have an immense capability to set roots very fast, from the tiniest piece of stem and leaf. Once they have gotten a hold(roots can form within a matter of days) they start growing like crazy. Really an impressive plant in that sense. And a fun plant to own, because you can make cuttings and within days, have a plant growing in a pot ready to pass out to your friends. Even the friends who have no idea how to take care of a plant can take care of a Kanna.

Hope this was helpful. If you have any questions, ask me. I stuck to the basics in this post, but if you wish to know more, it's better for you to ask something specific, and I can try answer that.

Seattle_Stranger
14-12-2010, 12:52
Awesome!! Thanks for all the info.

So, I just insufflated 200mg. Wow. I feel it for sure now. My hands instantly got very sweaty, pupils dilated big time, super bright lights, slight discoordination, and unfortunately some anxiety.

Not much euphoria to speak of. Also I again feel stimulation and sedation at the same time. Right now I feel like I took some MDMA earlier, and am anxious about it kicking in, and I'm feeling the very, very first signs of it. Now if only that serotonin storm would come. :)

Not that I expect a storm from kanna.

bwanajzj
14-12-2010, 16:28
Also, to think kratom isn't quite as addictive as opiates, that's also a huge plus.



I would disagree... If you compare kratom tea with poppy tea, the tendency for users to become addicted is almost the same. Likewise, if you compare a kratom extract with raw opium, the potential for addiction is just the same. If you consider that kratom has multiple alkaloids that target the opioid receptors, it is hard to argue that it does not have as much addictive potential as other opiates. An opiate is an opiate, and over time with persistent use, a user will become physically and psychologically dependant no matter what, and due to the profound effect of kratom on the opioid receptors, addiction is innevitable and therefore so are withdrawal symptoms upon discontinuing use.
7-hydroxymitragynine is the main active ingredient of Kratom in terms of μ-opioid activity, and it is over 15 times as potent a opioid agonist as morphine (Horie S, Koyama F, Takayama H, et al (March 2005). "Indole alkaloids of a Thai medicinal herb, Mitragyna speciosa, that has opioid agonistic effect in guinea-pig ileum". Planta Med. 71 (3): 231–6.)

There are numerous reasons as to why you made the above statement(and I do not blame you for being wrong, there are generally a lot of misconceptions about kratom and it's addictive potential). Following are some considerations that I have in mind:

- The availability is highly variable, and it is a less known substance which a lot of people oversee when looking for an opiate high.
- It is not possible to get a product where 7-hydroxymitragynine is refined and present in high concentrations, as an alternative to heroin, morphine or oxycontin, to name a few examples.
- The information surrounding kratom that is circulating tends to suggest that it is a good, healthy and less addictive alternative to other natural, semi-synthetic and synthetic opiates. This may be relatively true, due to the manner in which people use kratom, but due to the fact that Kratom contains opioid agonists targeting a wide range of receptors, it is impossible to argue that it is less addictive.
- There has also, until recently, been very limited research done on kratom and it's psychoactive constituents, and the laws and regulations around the world have been very vague.

Therefore, I think that you should be careful with kratom, and don't say that you weren't warned, if you one day find yourself hooked on the tea/extract, suffering from withdrawal when you cannot get your dose. The dosages of kratom tea, however, tend to be quite low for the most part when people brew it, but I have met a couple of people who really drink a lot, and have a very hard time without it.

whoaremeyo
14-12-2010, 17:30
I would disagree... If you compare kratom tea with poppy tea, the tendency for users to become addicted is almost the same. Likewise, if you compare a kratom extract with raw opium, the potential for addiction is just the same. If you consider that kratom has multiple alkaloids that target the opioid receptors, it is hard to argue that it does not have as much addictive potential as other opiates. An opiate is an opiate, and over time with persistent use, a user will become physically and psychologically dependant no matter what, and due to the profound effect of kratom on the opioid receptors, addiction is innevitable and therefore so are withdrawal symptoms upon discontinuing use.
7-hydroxymitragynine is the main active ingredient of Kratom in terms of μ-opioid activity, and it is over 15 times as potent a opioid agonist as morphine (Horie S, Koyama F, Takayama H, et al (March 2005). "Indole alkaloids of a Thai medicinal herb, Mitragyna speciosa, that has opioid agonistic effect in guinea-pig ileum". Planta Med. 71 (3): 231–6.)

There are numerous reasons as to why you made the above statement(and I do not blame you for being wrong, there are generally a lot of misconceptions about kratom and it's addictive potential). Following are some considerations that I have in mind:

- The availability is highly variable, and it is a less known substance which a lot of people oversee when looking for an opiate high.
- It is not possible to get a product where 7-hydroxymitragynine is refined and present in high concentrations, as an alternative to heroin, morphine or oxycontin, to name a few examples.
- The information surrounding kratom that is circulating tends to suggest that it is a good, healthy and less addictive alternative to other natural, semi-synthetic and synthetic opiates. This may be relatively true, due to the manner in which people use kratom, but due to the fact that Kratom contains opioid agonists targeting a wide range of receptors, it is impossible to argue that it is less addictive.
- There has also, until recently, been very limited research done on kratom and it's psychoactive constituents, and the laws and regulations around the world have been very vague.

Therefore, I think that you should be careful with kratom, and don't say that you weren't warned, if you one day find yourself hooked on the tea/extract, suffering from withdrawal when you cannot get your dose. The dosages of kratom tea, however, tend to be quite low for the most part when people brew it, but I have met a couple of people who really drink a lot, and have a very hard time without it.
I happen to know of a source where one can order pure 7-hydroxymitragine.

bwanajzj
14-12-2010, 17:48
I happen to know of a source where one can order pure 7-hydroxymitragine.

Oh dear.... well that makes my argument a bit loose, but a lot of things still hold in terms of the addictive properties of Kratom and its alkaloid constituents. I really didn't think anyone isolated and produced 7-hydroxymitragine. But then again, some of those Kratom extracts out there are pretty damn strong, so they have probably been spiced up with the good stuff :) Thanks for the info. Not that I am interested in ordering, but good to know!

But let's keep this thread about Kanna from now on :)

Seattle_Stranger
14-12-2010, 23:32
Yeah not trying to go too off topic, but I've used kratom about 3x more often than I used to use poppy tea, and the withdrawals from the poppy tea were A LOT worse than any kratom hangover I've gotten. I find it far less addictive than any opiate I've tried HOWEVER I will not say it's not addictive at all. YMMV but IME kratom "withdrawals" barely last until lunchtime. :p I'm not saying you're wrong, but I definitely believe kratom is less addictive with 'less' being a relative term.

Granted I don't think my usage is anywhere close to the realm of forming dependency.

Anyway, last night I took a nice 200mg hit of kanna up the shnoz last night, and it kept me up until 8am. I wasn't euphoric, but stimulated and free of anxiety with I suppose is euphoric in itself. I'm trying to get that strong euphoria people have been speaking of. Would it be crazy to take a higher dose like 2-3g? A dude on another forum took 5g several times, reported near-MDMA experiences with no adverse effects. I'm kinda scared to take that much though, however I feel kanna could potentially have a high recreational value. Some people even say it's better and cleaner than d-amp?!

toothpastedog
14-12-2010, 23:57
Wow, very impressed about the intensity of these kanna experiences. I remember dabbling it a bit back at university, but given the other stuff around didn't spend to much time with it. Only was able to achieve a mild sort of body high accompanied by a nice bit of mental clarity. No matter whether smoked, snorted or eaten, never had a huge effect on me. I think the most I snorted was around 150mg, same smoked, but I guess it could also have just been the batch (only ordered it that one time). And speaking of kratom, wow, that was by far the best synergy I experience on kanna. Nothing mind blowing compared to your traditionally powerful opiates, pod tea/heroin, but wonderfully light nonetheless. And, err, legal; awesome.

I think my favorite was about 150mg (my scale at the time was sorta uncalibrated, so don't take that at face value - prob only reliable to +/-50 mg) kanna plus 1g 30% kavalactone (sp?) paste plus 4g kratom bali somthing something. Very social mellow stuff.

Seattle_Stranger
16-12-2010, 05:00
I'm reading around the net about a yohimbe+kanna combo. I'm reading in some places that it's extremely dangerous, while in other places that it comes in "Bliss Shots" like this, and that the combo can be an extremely euphoric high.

It sounds to me like theres a small window you need to shoot for while the dosages are safe and compliment each other, however I'd hate to overshoot that window. :(

Seattle_Stranger
16-12-2010, 23:07
So I've been messing with kanna the past couple nights, insufflating 100mg here and there, never really exceeding ~300mg in a night, and starting to notice effects. Yesterday around lunch time I took some yohimbe, a weak MAOI. Later on that evening, about 8 hours later, I decided to snort a very small amount of kanna, I'm guessing it was about a 50mg pinch. From this one hit, I definitely felt effects, stimulation, color sharpness, the usual, but this time it just felt more apparent. Not necessarily 'stronger', but more detectable. It was actually very pleasant!! Later on I insufflated a bit more, then a bit more, making effects a tad stronger, then eventually drifting off.

Today, I woke up with what feels like some kind of hangover. Anxiety, slight depression, fatigue, cold sweats and shivers and no appetite, also some d+. It actually feels very opiate-hangoverish, but I haven't had any opiates in way over a week and haven't had any withdrawals symptoms since then.

Took some loperamide and it actually seems like the symptoms are subsiding. WTF?