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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

New Evidence on St.John's Wort

D

Duffer

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 23, 2000
Messages
54
Anyone catch Paul Dillon on JJJ this morning?
He was talking about new evidence that suggests of possible toxicity effects for E-users who also load with St.John's Wort.
Anyone got more info or links to these findings?
 
I think St. John's Wort is a mild MAOI, which could lead to serotonin syndrome.
 
Loading with St. John's Wort?
Is that before or after your roll? Because I heard that if you take it on the day of your roll, it actually limits the effect of your E. It does a similar thing to you to Prozac, which also happens to be a similar thing to E, so it would, I guess, 'tire out' the serotonin releasing neurotransmitters in your brain, reducing the amount that they release in one big eccy-filled whack.
And if it does a similar thing to E, that would explain the long term side effects that are similar to long term ecstacy use. I wonder if prozac does the same thing as well?
SpankY
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Remember, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.
 
Does anybody pre-load with it, though? All the loading literature I've come across suggests using it as a post-load only, because of the reason Mr Sticky mentioned.
I use it daily, but always purposely don't take it for a couple of days before I'm gonna pill.
If you mean there are toxicity problems associated with post-load use, then more info would be good.
Ben.
 
Hi all!
Well i dont proclaim to be an expert, but i was taking St.J.W. for a week and a half before two tribes earlier this year, I had planned for a very big night and i consumed 4 pills in 7 hours and barley even felt a thing! And these where all damn good pills too! Gold cK, Grey Fish, Apricot Rolex etc..
So to my knowledge and experience of it, it deffinatley diminishes the effect of MDxx in your system.
Regards,
Rhumba.
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yeah i heard ya man, out tha corner of ma eye!
 
St. John's Wort (hypericin) inhibits monoamine oxidase, a chemical associated with depression. In other words, hypericin is a
"MAO inhibitor".
MAO inhibitors were commonly prescribed by conventional medical doctors in the past to treat depression. However, in recent years, other types of anti-depressants have become much more popular because they have far fewer side effects and drug interactions.
MAO inhibitors should not be used when a person eats substances containing the amino acid tyramine. If this caution is not followed, convulsions, extremely high fever and death may occur. MAO inhibitors also react with many commonly prescribed medications, and such drug interactions can cause very serious problems. So when your doctor asks what "medicines" you are taking, always also tell him/her about any over the counter preparations, and BOTANICAL substances you are using!
If you plan on using Saint John's Wort, you need to be aware that the following foods contain either tyramine or bacteria with
enzymes that can convert tyrosine to tyramine: Alcoholic beverages, products made with yeast, aged cheese, sour cream, liver,
canned meats, salami, sausage, pickled herring, eggplant, and soy sauce.
http://www.eurohost.com/docwelln/sjw.html
Click to expand...
Deaths have been reported of some MDMA users who were also taking Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs are often prescribed as antidepressants). MDMA is *not* recommended to anyone taking any MAOI. Ask your doctor or pharmacist if you're unsure whether a drug you are taking is an MAOI. Also be aware that some antidepressants (e.g. Prozac and Zoloft) may inhibit some of the effects of MDMA.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq.shtml#contra
Click to expand...
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"i think i'll stick to drugs to get me thru the long, dark night of late-capitalism..."
Irvine Welsh
[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 27 May 2000).]
 
The JJJ interview said that people do use St Johns Wort to preload, but recently there have been some studies that suggest that there may be some toxicity problems with ecstacy, or using large ammounts of it. Their advice was to strictly follow the dosage directions.
 
It is a waste to use St.Johns wort, because
From the "Good drug Guide"
--------------------------------------------
Hypericum's blend of serotonin-reuptake inhibiting and (mild) MAO-inhibiting properties (not a combination otherwise to be explored with potent synthetics: the risk of the potentially fatal serotonin syndrome is too great) contributes to - without wholly explaining - its generally benign effects. Once again, much more research is needed.
You should be aware that Hypercium would actually decrease the effects of an E. According to this statement.
 
A MAOI inhibiter like Prozac is or should be taken by people "after" pilling.(post-load)
Fuck, i posted a topic some months ago on 'Who does the Prozac thing?'.
Geez, there must be a lot of new people who aren't reading up on what they should. Do some research, you will find it.
Back to MAOIs, it apparently reduces the damage being done to serotonin, and that's why people take it after or during 'come-downs'. Doing it as a "pre-load" is a waste of time and can be DANGEROUS. Plus it reduces effect of MDMA and will take more time for your head adjust to proper "peak" standards.
In other words, you wreck the e experience and it can, not always, take some time to get that feeling back after not pre-loading for some time.
You know the drill, just dump a pill...
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My life is simply
Defined by every
Magnificent experience
Acquired by E.
[This message has been edited by sleeper (edited 29 May 2000).]
 
the MAOIs are very dangerous with MDMA, they prevent the breakdown of the released serotonin.
What you want is an SSRI. This just prevents serotonin reuptake when ur gonna need it after rolling and more importantly stops the effects of MDMA in its tracks after the roll.
The greatest amount of damage is done when after the majority of the serotonin has been released, and u have taken enough MDMA for it to still be around; it begins releasing other neurochemicals which it shouldn't. These kill the axons/receptors etc.
The time to have it seems to be within 6hrs of taking the pill.
 
sorry to bring up an old post but ive just gotta correct this... prozac is not a MAOI.
 
I thought the best way we could counter act damage is to take an SSRI(Prozac) just as you are coming down. This should block the re-uptake transporter and stop dopamine from entering the axon and doing damage.
Then some L-Tryptophan to build serotonin back up in the Axon.
Sure this has been the most effective way to come off E for some time now. Correct me if I’m wrong.
(Excuse any bad spelling)
 
I thought SSRI's generally take a few weeks to take effect, as it takes time for it to flow through your body. Am I wrong? Or is there really no point in taking prozac after a roll? Wouldn't you just be better off pre and post loading on 5-HTP?
Nick
 
Nick-nick: Usually it takes up to a couple of weeks before SSRIs begin to exert an anti-depressant effect on a person who's taking them daily. That is, a person taking SSRIs for depression may not feel their mood-stabilising effects for a while after they begin taking anti-depressants. However, their seratonin reuptake inhibiting properties usually begin from day one.
Thus, it makes good sense to take Prozac or another SSRI after MDMA. There is some debate that 5-HTP may be just as effective (or even more so - I read somewhere that MDMA may actually inhibit the action of SSRIs for a short time in the brain) so using 5-HTP is probably just as beneficial. It's a difficulty either way; you have to order 5-HTP from overseas, or go to the doctor to get a prescription for SSRIs.
BigTrancer
smile.gif

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Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Shoot.
 
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