Bad rolls/trips. What to do.

I'm curious as to what all you gurus think are the best things to do when someone starts wigging out.
I've dealt with friends (and strangers) who start freaking out on pills & candyflips but I've never been sure if what I'm doing is right.
As an aside, is orange juice a placebo or do you need massive amounts of Vit C to bring someone down?

Its a placebo but a placebo can be more powerful than any drug. If you tell them they will be able to convince themselves that it is in fact doing something. Btw the best thing to do if someone is wigging out is to calm them down, reassure them that everything is ok and that it is just the drugs effecting their mind.

Total agreement with Nickstar.
A cure by placebo is still a cure. The most important thing IMHO is the final point Nickstar made. Keep them calm if possible, and reassure them that whatever drug they have taken will be gone in a short time. This is possibly most important with someone who's inexperienced with LSD (or has taken a higher dose than usual). I would speak calmly to them, keep their attention on simple things where possible and distract their mind from worrying about the drug's effects. When they do shake off the calmness and begin to worry again, remind them that there's only a little while to go before they're back to normal. Changing the subject of conversation, or even going for a walk might help to avoid them dwelling on the same thoughts over and over in their mind.
If someone's having a bad 'roll' they could be just uncomfortable. Maybe too hot or cold, maybe dehydrated. Sometimes a friendly voice is enough to pick them up. More drugs are usually not the answer if someone's having a bad time --> therefore offering someone speed to 'pick them up' can do more harm than good. A change of setting is usually the best option, in my experience.
If we push this issue further, what about someone who's been caning it pretty hard, and are well past being scattered. There are varying degrees of psychosis that can present in someone who's a: deeply sleep deprived and/or b: on the 2nd/3rd/4th-day of amphetamines. This can be quite difficult to deal with, even when trying to help close friends, because most commonly people become extremely paranoid. The paranoid delusions and hallucinations can be markedly similar to paranoid schizophrenia. This can lead to their perceptions being vastly altered, and can lead to them lashing out at those trying to assist them (persecutory delusions). They may also experience tactile hallucinations ("bugs crawling on my skin") leading to scratching and irritability. However, the psychosis should pass within a few hours (provided no more amphetamines are ingested). For the carer, there is little to do besides keeping themself and the affected person safe and calm where possible. Attempting to remove dangerous weapons/objects in the event of violence could be hazardous, so these items should be removed before any situation escalates.
Keep the ideas coming... personal experiences? What worked to help you out of your "bad trips", or what did you do that helped your friends?
BigTrancer
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Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Shoot.

In my experience with Acid, i've found that there's really no such thing as a bad trip: theres only places that I don't want to be at while I'm tripping (such as a club, rave).. or people I don't want to be around while I'm tripping (like those seedy dudes who are following me and are going to kidnap me cos I looked at his shoe the wrong way two hours ago..)
Once you can remove yourself from the situation, and get to a nice enjoyable place.. such as a lounge room with your favourite music and good friends.. I find that most of the tension and paranioa slips away...
Valium is also fairly handy to have on hand if your planning to take a large amount(LSD, don't know who it would mix with e..)..
..and also some-one who isn't tripping so that if you find yourself in a situation you don't like, you can turn to them and say "Get ME the FUCK OUTTA HERE!!!"
And don't smoke weed.

when i start freaking out, i usually try my hardest not to let my mind get carried away with whats going on, by doing something like counting back from 50 and coordinating it with my breathing (i usually get distracted by this and it calms me down). so maybe you could suggest that to someone. its hard to tell what the right thing to do is, but i think you should ask them what they want you to do, ie talk to them, or just sit with an arm around them etc.

Good thread - your first point of call should be the excellent erowid faq on bad trips. www.erowid.org
Ok, my opinion of wigging is pretty harsh, but if you can't do the time, don't do the crime - eg don't take more than you can handle. I know it's blunt and perhaps not the most compassionate thing in the world, but i wouldn't let myself get into that situation and i expect nothing less than that from others, but that isn't always the case.
A good trick is the "its only the drugs" mantra. I know it's kind of a cliche, but, there have been times when i have had a LOT of psychadelics, and well things get a little twisted an pear shaped. Suspicion (my friends really just use me), paranoia (man i swear to god, X is just waiting to fuckin hit me), aural + visual hallucinations (eg are they laughing at me? - is that a cop car? - is my phone ringing? etc), etc etc come into play, and reality can be hard to keep a hold of.
Its only the drugs works.
Unfortunately i'm not one for random helping of strangers who wig - got a bad pill - where's the tester? why eat 4? why sit in the middle of the rave looking absolutely bollocked? Having a bad trip - why eat so much acid? Why not have your head sorted before psychadelics - or dont take them? etc.
It does make me sound like a prick, but everyone has issues, i prefer people to deal with these themselves or with friends/etc before drugs, not getting psychosis and bringing a big melodrama to the fore because you ate too many drugs.
Gah - i'm sounding like a prick - but main pointers:
Bad trip
* keep them talking and calm, even if its about mundane shit
* keep warm, secure (eg in a blanket somewhere nice and quiet)
* keep positive
I'd be there in a second to help my friends, but as for strangers, I don't know.

As hard as it may be u need to try and convince the person that they are not going "loopy" and use some method to try and get them back in a positive state of mind.
Most important thing in my eyes is don't create a mountain out of a mole hill, take the person aside and talk normally to them and avoid telling other people bout them freaking out as this will cause unwanted attention from other clubbers creating an even bigger problem for the person.
If the person is really bad i find taking them out of the club and going for a walk to a quieter and less busy place.
Explain that it is the drug causing the unwanted effects and stress the importance of 'just going with it' try to turn what they are experiencing into a positive, ie. Ur experiencing a new effect of drugs that u will learn to enjoy or deal with in the future.
Usually after a rest and a half hour chat the person is up to getting back into the action.

Sometimes it takes more than a rest and a chat .... it really takes hours of talking on your side as the other party might not be able to apprehend you coz he/ she is too drugged f**ked or prolly too deep into their "own worlds" This person has to have trust and faith in you. Sometimes, it is good to write simple on a piece of paper like - You are safe. Place it infront of them and hoping that they will look at it and keep saying it to themselves.
Just be with them - in silence or by talking softly. let them know that you are there for them. It can be difficult and can be a strain on you if you are on shit as well.
Ive seen and been there myself. hope this helps.
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To live is to change, and to be perfect is to have changed often.
- John Henry Newman

Aside from a blatant bump...
Are there any definite no-no's?
Aside from the obvious "Yes, you're right. You are going to die."

Last night, i gave my best friend her first pill, it was only half (shes only like 45kg) and she had a great time. There was one point where we were in the dunnies when she started to come up pretty intensely and started losing her legs, i had to catch her and try to snap her out of it...i started to talk to her and made her talk to me about like her boyfriend and uni and just familiar things that made her come back to reality...then about15 minutes later she was rockin' the house! It was kinda scary but it felt good that i helped her out...
I guess this situation is maybe not one about a bad drug experience, just looking after the ones u love and knowing how to handle situations and the similar.
I agree, you really gotta play safe and be with good ppl.

I agree with Supaspeed on just about everything he said. It is really up to the person to make sure they are prepared for what's going to happen to them if they are going to take drugs, esp. psychedelics. I would always helps friends and might try to give a little help to some strangers, but the situation still remains that everyone should look after themself first and think about it before taking too much of anything.
If you're introducing someone to a new chem though, it is really up to you to make sure they're ok.

Good point Supaspeed, I agree totally. If you don't want to risk flipping out, don't swallow that extra pill.
However if someone is flipping out, personally I can't help but offer assistance... Even if it is their fault, they are still scared, and no one wants to feel that way.
I think it's very important to distract a person who is having a bad trip. Don't leave them on their own, up the back of the dance floor, sitting with their head slumped into their arms and not moving. If they are sitting still and not moving, all they are likely to be thinking about is how fucked up they are from the drugs, when are the effects gonna wear off, and looking at their watch every twenty seconds expecting 5 minutes to have passed.
Take them somewhere quiet (don't fuss for an area so quiet you can hear a pin drop) and get them talking! Don't crawl up their arse and ask "are you ok?" "do you want more water?" "what are you seeing now" "can I do anything else for you", and so on every five seconds. Talk objectively about something which you know they are interested in, and will respond to chatter about. If you don't know the person, here is your chance.
I dealt with someone flipping out + vomiting from a pill last night. It was her second pill that night, and it was 10 times stronger than the previous one. She vomited, I started questioning her about what she did before she came out that night, what kind of music she liked best, and before she knew it, the whole wobbly legs thing was over, and she was high as a kite for hours...
That's my 2c.
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wisest is he who knows that he does not know...

I agree with Supaspeed too, but it's not only the amount of drugs that can cause a bad trip. I wigged out at the Feb Earthcore on half a strong pill. This happened because I hadn't eaten for about 24 hours, and also because my frame of mind at the time. So while I agree with the "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime", I also believe that sometimes people need to have a bad experience to remind them to respect the drugs they're taking.

Sometimes people need to be left alone too, just to deal with it by themselves. I know that we all like to care for our friends but occasionally they need to be left alone to deal with the cold hard consequences of their own drug taking. Especially when they've really gone too hard, and they become unresponsive and/or violent. We're talking about *really* wigging out, particularly when someone has gone so far past their limits it's not even funny.
Example 1: Arrive at recovery session with a bunch of scattered friends, and after a large combination of chemicals one of the friends drops off to a happy sleep. She wakes, and begins saying "hello?... hello?" looking around with her eyes open but not seeing people, others talk to her and shake her but she doesn't register hearing/seeing their input. Plainly becoming scared because she doesn't know what's going on, but totally unavailable to input from those around her, she's in a bit of a hard place to deal with. What do you do then?
Example 2: It's been a hell of a weekend, and things are turning sour. WAY too much speed, WAY too much. The paranoia kicks in *real* hard for one person amongst a group, and he decides that he's been being followed all the previous night, and becomes nervously hyperactive. Closes all the curtains in the house, changes clothing to look different (three or four times) and then asks friends to help him cut his hair. When told that this is sillyness and he should calm down, he immediately suspects everyone is out to get him, and smashes his mobile phone to get rid of the 'tracer bug', then hides under the house with a butcher's knife, threatening to stab anyone who comes close. What do you do then?
Example 3: The trips are stronger than expected at a house party, though they looked identical to the last lot from the same dealer. Everyone is tripping balls, but one person took double because he wanted to go further than 'last time'. He is discovered some hours later crying in the corner of a dark bedroom, and all attempts to communicate with him result in him entering a state of hysterical panic, rocking back and forth sobbing in terror. What do you do then?
In some cases people either become unreachable, or unwilling to receive help. I guess the best thing you can do in these instances is try to ensure they don't hurt themself or anyone else, and leave them to deal with it for the duration of the drug effects. Sometimes people go too hard... and if the stories above aren't bad enough - you should see the comedowns.
BigTrancer

ok personal experience here... i majorly screamed out on my first time pilling, i totally fucked up... i went paranoid bollocks for about 5 or so minutes on the come up and just knew i was going to die and that everyone was watching me and they hated my guts and would kill me... as you can probably understand it wasn't fun... i know the pill was MDMA cuz it was tested and because my friends were on the same shit... i was very lucky because my friends helped me and hugged me and in a couple of seconds everything was fine (like it usually is on E)... but my major mistake was that i'd taken half a pill and it was taking a while to come on, like about an hour later i was pressured in (my mistake was giving in to the pressure) to taking the other half... i didn't need it because i came up like five minutes later and i felt nervous as because i'd lost control and i'd had more than i was planning on... but it was still an overall good experience...
what most people forget is that E is still a powerful psychadelic drug, and that the rules (set and setting) should still apply for it as much as they do for lsd...
peace
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"Try combining a childlike wonder at the beauty of the world with cynicism at the state it's in, and stay sane... it isn't easy" - Me

A few weeks ago l was at Sublime@Home (LAST TIME- FUCK I HATE THAT PLACE)and l had a few Euro's and then l had a hit of some acid. I was really starting to see weird things (peoples faces missing etc etc etc)...and l guess l was starting to freak out a bit. But, in the back of my mind l was thinking...it's only the acid...it's only the acid and l was ok.
If u like do start to freak out, just tell yourself that it's only because of the drugs. Works for me, don't know about anyone else though. Yeah, and having someone there that u know (incase u need a hug or something) helps BIGTIME.
What l also noticed was that the LSD took the E effect away altogether. l wasn't charged and my legs just didn't want to dance anymore. I was like unco and stuff. Weird huh.
I still had fun looking at people with no faces and people who's sunnies were appearing/disappearing with each strobe flash.
My $0.02

*bump*

Great topic from many moons ago...
Everythings already been said, but we thought we'd jump in too.
Here's some of hardups thoughts and experiences on dealing with general freakouts.
Reducing stimuli is always a big one. Often, if someone is freaking out on acid or ez, they just need to have the "downward spiral" broken, by altering the set and the setting. Taking them for a walk outside etc can really help. Also, if your helping out a friend, stay calm. If the helper looks scared, the person freaking out will just get more freaked out. Keep smiling, and remain positive while talking someone down. A whole group of friends fussing over someone who's freaked is not a good idea. Just keep it to one or two good friends, although, like BT said, sometimes people might want to be alone. In that case, just keep an eye on them.
Panic attacks can look really scary but they're relatively common in a general freakout.. People will think they are suffocating or choking. They just need to take some deep breaths. Get them to breath in and out to the count of ten. Keep repeating this cycle until their breathing calms down. Once someone calms down from a panic attack like this, they can relapse back into it fairly easily (more common on LSD or mushies) so keep an eye on them.
Change the persons expectations of the drugs effect. We've seen people flip out on their first E, yet when you explain that what they're feeling are infact the regular symptoms of MDMA (eg tingly, warm feeling, fluttering eyes, jaw grinding etc) they suddenly frame their feelings in a positive light, and start to enjoy it.
Oh yeah, the placebo effect is excellent, too.
For the really major freakouts, like the ones in BTs examples above, all you can do is keep them and yourself safe. If someone is becoming violent (more risky if they've been using meth) you might need to call for help. Just try and keep everyones safety in mind, and be aware that the police may attend if violence is involved. Amphetamine psychosis is pretty ugly. Prevention is much easier than cure.

It may not be the most healthy option, but for meth/speed paranoia *only*, nothing gets a positive reaction as much as an alcoholic drink or two. You can actually feel your system relaxing, like a cool breeze on a hot day.

I personally found that realising that it's only the drugs messing with me has helped the most. The best way I deal with paranoia is to start of on small truths I know. Like my best friend isn't trying to kill me etc. Then gradually build up on those till I can be comfortable with my surroundings. ie my best friend is trying to kill me, and his friend isn't rying to kill me, and that guy over there is just being friendly even if he is a freak.