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HdoubleODeezy
16-02-2011, 18:34
i don't gotta worry about the cops around here anymore, I'm "above the law" as long as i stick to the script like lint on denim,

NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM

NeighborhoodThreat
16-02-2011, 18:36
stick to the script like lint on denim

+1 hahaha

Herbaliser
16-02-2011, 19:34
I just came back to home from Thailand and i was lucky to get a local friend and lots of Kratom fueled nights with him. I used fresh leaves everytime, chewing them in the mouth for a while and then spit out the plant material.. Usually i chewed 2-3 big leaves for a nice energetic, relaxed buzz..

Among local people it's used by middle and lower class people as a stimulant to get power and not to feel hungry in hard, whole day lasting working.. I saw many construction workers with a ball inside their cheeks so it's not hard to guess what they where munching.

One day we made a trip with the local guy to countryside to his friends place where they had Kratom trees. They offered us few leaves to chew and also a couple of flowers which looked like small green a bit spikey seed pods.. I dont know was it the flowers or the rough bamboo bong hits with too much jungle tobacco blended with weed but that time i got almost too fucked up and totally felt a strong opiate like high which made the moving a bit uncomfortable and made my stomach feel a bit bad.. Still really nice and euphoric!

Nice stuff, too bad it doesn't grow in Europe! Does anyone else have experience using Kratom at it's origin or any knowledge about situation with the Kratom in other SE Asian countryes?

HdoubleODeezy
16-02-2011, 20:35
^ you can buy live plants in the spring time and grow them from the pot and then transplant to outside and it will keep growing back every year and you will have your own kratom plant.. everyone is sold out now because of the time of year, but you bet your ass im buying a couple when the time comes.. my backyard is a great place for growing things (not that ive tried) but my grandparents plant gardens back there every year with great results.

RubberSoul-91
16-02-2011, 20:58
get kratom extract 15x its easy to find and i think its the best and anything more then 15x is probily bullshit. Start with 2gs in a cup of hot watter a little honey its bomb

villian
16-02-2011, 21:54
I've never been a big fan of kratom. I enjoy the feeling but it has always been extremely short lived for me. It is a nice anxiolytic though.. I have a friend who quit using kratom and he had a bunch of extracts for sale cheap.. I ended up grabbing some UEI since it was cheaper then normal..

I normally took something like 10-12 grams of bali or green malaysian to get where I wanted to be.. I'm thinking about starting at 1 gram of UEI? I'll report back after some experimentation.

RedBaron
16-02-2011, 22:38
I've never been a big fan of kratom. I enjoy the feeling but it has always been extremely short lived for me. It is a nice anxiolytic though.. I have a friend who quit using kratom and he had a bunch of extracts for sale cheap.. I ended up grabbing some UEI since it was cheaper then normal..

I normally took something like 10-12 grams of bali or green malaysian to get where I wanted to be.. I'm thinking about starting at 1 gram of UEI? I'll report back after some experimentation.

It takes me about 16g of bali and 1.3g of UEI to get where I want to be, so you seem on target, but who knows with these crazy vendors.

BrokedownPalace
16-02-2011, 22:45
^What is your opiate tolerance like?

I am just curious if Kratom would be a worthwhile investment to help me out on those odd days where I don't have my methadone.

SatchelPee
17-02-2011, 14:10
Thanks Pegasus....

dcraver877
17-02-2011, 15:16
man i caved and used dope on saturday. now i've been using kratom all week and i actually was feelin better than my usual oxys off it the first half of the week. i love kratom! i ordered a bulk order from jakarta. its on its way across the globe in a cargo container somewhere. kilos of heaven.....

NeighborhoodThreat
17-02-2011, 16:51
It will certainly help out more than you think, good luck man!

SatchelPee
20-02-2011, 15:53
One week...
I CANNOT believe it has been a week since I quit sub. I clearly remember last week literally SHAKING at the prospect of not having my daily bupe. I still see those crumbs flushing down the toilet (* note* flush anything you have left or you will take it .. trust me , flushing is so , I dunno, cathartic... symbolic even . ) Kratom has made this possible. I am just so grateful. I have been going to meetings for years now and felt like such a phony . This is just me but I need meetings. Something aout being around other addicts creates a synergy that is difficult to describe unless you have been there. In my experience quitting has always been the easy part. ( especially this time with K ) STAYING quit . different story altogether.. I REALLY like my morning K so that may be a bit difficult to cut back on .. but w/out it? I don't think I would have had a chance . Anyone on the fence about whether or not to stop their DOC .. Do it! Believe you can and it will be fine .. Believe

Somniack
21-02-2011, 08:26
i have a few questions id love to ask you.

1) do you take UEI by itself or take it with some plain leaf?

2) what dose would you recommend for someone used to only using kratom plain leaves and never tried UEI but looking for a strong experience?

3) can you compare the similarities and differences between the kratom high vs opiates? for me the most notable difference is that my mind is far more active on kratom.

1)- when I take UEI I take it alone.. UEI means Ultra Enhanced Indo.. there seems to be some confusion about this versus extracts ect.. UEI is essentially one of the stronger extracts basically they extract the active alkaloids from for example a kilo of indo leaf powder, this results it a concentraton of all the goodies that 1 key of indo contains, but these goodies may only weigh a half ounce or so.. Then they combine these goodies with, say, one ounce of powdered indo leaf, and in doing so they 'enhance' the leaf powder and now they have 1.5 ounces which contains the strength of a whole kilo of plain regular leaf powder.. So combining uei with more leaf powder simply adds to the weight, and ever so slightly adds to the strength, but not enough for you to feel the difference. Plus kratom doesn't tase great, so the less you have to eat, the better.

2)- this is a tough question because the dose size depends on soo many factors, but this info might help a little; I too started with plain powdered leaf, it came in capsules each containing half of a gram. For the first month or two, 6 caps would give me a good opiate buzz, but if I wanted to really get high ( nodding out, itchy face, warm all over and very sedated), I would take 10-12 caps (5 or 6 grams).. Now as far as UEI; I think at that point, .5 to 1 gram of uei would have been perfect! Best to start low and work your way up of course. There are some kratom-nieve folks out there who would laugh and say that kratom is week shit, and then injest 3g of UEI, and feel like they took heroin for the first time and did way too much..

3) Ok last one then I'm gonna crash (I'm on UEI tonight) In my experience, kratom feels just like opiates.. Of course there are different kinds of kratom that give different effects, and same is true with all the different kinds of opiates.. For example maeng da kratom is a bit stimulating, I would compare it to taking some buprenorphine and drinking a caffeine soda or energy drink.. All together though most types of kratom and opiates cause the same feeling of euphoria, as well as itching, dry mouth, and a unique internal feeling of comfort and warmth.

I hope this helps clear things up a little! If u ever want to try potentiating to save money, take the over the counter antacid Tagamet one hour before the kratom. Two or the tablets will work.. St. John's Wart goes well with it also in my opinion..

Also UEI tastes delicious when you stir it into a wendy's chocolate frosty!!

Naptown Wicked
21-02-2011, 19:30
I'm standing outside my local head shop right now wondering if I should spend the money on this. They have the black label stuff already in capsules (5 or 6 to the package) they also have it in leaf and in extract.

I'm basically just trying to hold off WDs til this afternoon so I can make it through work. My oxy tolerance isn't too high (though my wife would beg to differ). 30mg would hold me, but not get me high.

Which one should I buy? How many grams would 6 capsules be? Would that be enough to stop being ill?

I appreciate any quick responses as I have to get back to work!

BTW my normal dose to get high is about 80-90mg oxy or one railed 40mg opana

BrokedownPalace
21-02-2011, 19:36
^I would go with the extract, but there are so many varities and brands it is hard to give yhou an accurate description of the effects. Unless your w/d are debilitating, this afternoon isn't very far away and I would try to just tough it out til later. 30mg of oxy isn't a huge habit so w/d for a bit shouldn't be unbearable.

hydrochron
28-02-2011, 06:50
Hey guys I just recently tryed Kratom. Needless to say I really liked it, it's kind of like a opiate substitute(go figure)..

Anyways I tryed some super premium and some 20x ectract. Oddly enough I got a stronger buzz from the super premium then the extract.

There's so many types of kratom to choose from out there. Some are supposed to stimulate you more others are supposed to sedate you more, some do both.

So what's the most effective form and why?

amapola
28-02-2011, 06:59
It's mostly marketing bullshit.

Do to the complex alkaloid profile of kratom and the contradicting relaxing/energizing effects vendors can claim all sorts of things. That being said some is higher quality product than others, it's really difficult to tell just from a name though. To simplify as much as possible the best form is the one containing the most mitragynine & 7-hydroxymitragynine per dollar amount. Usually this is not the extracts.

I'm going to throw this is the kratom thread as it is asked fairly often. I'll also link my post showing the relative alkaloid concentrations in a variety of products as well.

edit:
here's the link from a few pages back http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9324387&postcount=240
It's an analysis of 7-OH-mitragynine and mitragynine in several commercial kratom products.

hydrochron
28-02-2011, 07:05
So there's a vendor that offers a form that is mainly supposed to have alot of 7-hydroxymitragynine, that's going to basically be the best quality? What about the other active ingriedients? Such as Oxidole.

I know this takes trial and error but I would like to weed out all the shit that's a waste. And find somthing that I really like.

amapola
28-02-2011, 07:18
I've never heard of oxidole. Do you have a link describing it?

As for what vendors offer it is pretty much a moot point as they can lie. All that matters is what you get and the only method is trial and error or reading reviews. Since Bluelight doesn't offer reviews we can't really help you there.

hydrochron
28-02-2011, 23:50
^I'm not asking for a review, I wanted to know the most effective type of kratom generally. Not to save money, but to get the most medicinal benefit.

I cant find a link for the oxidole, but apparently it's what causes the most stimulating effects for the kratom.

Let me check out your link. I'll see if that helps.

Edit: Cool chart, that was actually quite helpfull. It seems like the resins are the most potent yet most expensive, and the dryed leafs and powder vary.

It looks like the best bet is to find a good dryed leaf with high alkloid content.

Thank you Amapola, I appreciate it.

Ph0r.W3-R-m4ny
28-02-2011, 23:57
The few times I did this I had a few different types I mixed together, 'thai' 'bali' and something else I think... I took five grams of each and brewed them and drank it down along with some beer and had a GREAT time. Was that dose too high?

axe battler
01-03-2011, 01:12
^^If you had a great time then no, the dose was obviously perfect.

I haven't seen anything to suggest kratom is toxic, and for me 15g of the leaf matter was perfect with only a mild codeine habit at the time.

I was surprised actually how much, how massively much, better the leaves were than the 30X extract I usually go for.

I now this is old hat but most of the extracts are a total rip off! I am yet to try the UEI though, and may very well invest in some soon.

Ph0r.W3-R-m4ny
01-03-2011, 01:15
^I think the other type was 'Malaysian' not that I think about it

I extracted it really well, didn't let it go full boil but strong simmer. Think I did three full extractions before cooking down the results. FUN time!

Pothedd
01-03-2011, 07:31
I recently posted a thread that was then closed. Sorry for calling the product I was asking about by name...

At any rate I'm wondering if Valerian root and cimetidine would potentiate kratom in any way? I mean valerian root may provide a synergistic effect, but I don't get effect from valerian on its own.

I was about to post this as a followup to the very few responses I received before my thread was closed, after someone postulated that cimetidine may in fact hinder the effect of kratom's major alkaloids.


Well the three main constituents of Kratom (Mitragynine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragynine), Mitraphylline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitraphylline), and 7-Hydroxymitragynine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-hydroxymitragynine)) all seem to be active orally without any metabolism into more active forms...
I mean those wiki articles are a bit lackluster in their wealth of information, and don't offer much in the way of pharmacology and pharmacokinetics, but they don't specifically mention any enzyme facilitating the breakdown of these chemicals.

Anyone else? I'd like to have at least a couple opinions before I try eating my entire "sample."

amapola
01-03-2011, 07:47
Very good research and you are correct that they are active in and of themselves and do not require metabolism to become so. Along these lines inhibiting enzymes could very well increase the duration of your high however kratom has a complex effect on your body and there are many interactions which may not be taken into account. I'll go pull up the metabolism data for you if I can find it on my old hard drive.

Pothedd
02-03-2011, 03:55
After parachuting my sample I felt loads of nausea and pressure in my stomach.
This was simply because parachuting 5 grams of plant matter in 8-10 bombs with 2 (yes it took almost 2 whole) cans of Mountain Dew.
The discomfort passed and I was left with a very nice, very clear opioid high.
I know for certain that I could have gone to sleep at one point, but I didn't.
I should have though.
Once I did try to go to sleep I layed in bed for hours. Luckily it wasn't a terrible time since I felt so nice. XD

Still, it doesn't help with sleep unless you take advantage of the point in time where closing your eyes feels really nice. Instead I just rolled with the nice feeling, listening to music and playing video games, every once in a while sitting with eyes closed and just enjoying the act of breathing.

iateaphone
02-03-2011, 06:22
I have a simple question that Im sure was answered multiple times throughout the thread, but I dont really want to sift through 12 pages to find it.

Does making kratom tea provide any benefit other than saving your stomach from having to digest plant matter?

Is their any alkaloid potentiation? Or will simply parachuting ground plant matter yield the same results as making a tea of it?

Pothedd
02-03-2011, 06:25
I'm sure ingesting the plant matter is best in any way. Even when tea is made the powder is usually downed with the liquid.
I wouldn't doubt that alkaloids are left behind in the plant matter, so I would definitely try to keep it all down.

Edit: Parachutes were..... Idk....
All that tissue paper and carbonated soda left me bloated and nauseous. Next time I might just mix it into my black tea. The kratom had the same scent as black tea leaves. Exact same. It smelled sweet and delicious. I'm sure the taste isn't similar though...

amapola
02-03-2011, 06:48
Is their any alkaloid potentiation? Or will simply parachuting ground plant matter yield the same results as making a tea of it?
Parachuting will result in the same high or likely much better. A tea might have a slightly faster come up though as some of the alkaloids can be absorbed without having to break down any plant material. For people who can't tolerate the plant matter without nausea or who don't care about getting the maximum and prefer just sipping some liquid it is pretty common.


All that tissue paper and carbonated soda left me bloated and nauseous. Next time I might just mix it into my black tea. The kratom had the same scent as black tea leaves. Exact same. It smelled sweet and delicious. I'm sure the taste isn't similar though...
The method I use is known as toss and wash. Basically you put a little water into your kratom to make it a little more paste like then with some more water already in your mouth you place the kratom on the back of you tonge and just swallow. Then again I could see if people couldn't handle the taste this wouldn't work well. You could always invest in capsules as opposed to tissue paper. I had a friend who has used apple skin before as well.

Pothedd
02-03-2011, 06:50
apple skin?!
Now that's a genius idea.
I doubt I'll do it just because I don't even think we have apples but still... Genius.
Toss & wash seems like the easiest method for next time...

amapola
02-03-2011, 06:53
Toss & wash seems like the easiest method for next time...
Indeed. If you are dosing powder you just have to make sure you don't inhale any as it can cause a coughing fit which will expel the powder. Also it isn't good to get a lot of powdered plant material into your respiratory tract.

hydrochron
02-03-2011, 07:38
Ahh man I put some of that powder in my mouth and swallowed it. It was terrible lol, it was just like a huge clump of powder got stuck until I could wash it down.

Anyways it seems UEI is pretty popular. But i've found somthing else that is supposed to be mainly alkloids and really potent if not more then UEI. Not quite as potent as the pure akloids that come in mg form, but just below that.

So how good is UEI? I mean technically isn't it just normal kratom with really good shit added.

Pegasus
02-03-2011, 07:41
^Yep, that's what it is!

Pothedd
02-03-2011, 07:42
Quoted directly from a kratom distributor
then paraphrased by a mod
Ultra Enhanced Indo or (UEI), contains finely powdered high quality Indonesian kratom which has been carefully standardized and then enhanced with a big old dollop of super super super pure Kratom alkaloids.

hydrochron
02-03-2011, 09:20
Lol I know that's what it is. Im just curious if its worth the pretty penny. There's even another one up from that they claim to be stronger. Interesting shit I love kratom.

amapola
02-03-2011, 09:23
Generally as you go up in potency you will get less for your dollar. You are paying for the convenience of an extract or enhanced product so although it is generally slightly stronger, it won't be proportionally slighty more expensive.

Pothedd
02-03-2011, 09:44
Thank you mod. Sorry bout that.

I recently bought a "fusion" kratom as my first experiment with kratom. It wasn't a bad price for the sample, 5g for <snip>, and I was pleased with the results. The only problem was the mode of ingestion. I've grown weary of parachuting plant matter. It takes far too many bombs...

Back to the fusion, it was essentially extract on powdered plant matter. It made the amount of crap you had to eat more bearable.
Since the UEI has "alkaloids" (?) as opposed to plant extract (? could be the same thing ?) it might be stronger. Might also cost more idk...
I was pleased with my product, yours might be different.

HdoubleODeezy
02-03-2011, 10:00
my secret recipe that i use that isn't an extract (although i do have some 25X extract powder somewhere) 1/2 super green vein indo 1/4 red vein thai and 1/4 superior white vein indo.. mix that shit up in a huge container and store in 3 coffee cans. (you might not need 3, but with the amount i do it with at a time it takes 3 cans).
And i get great effects off 5-7ish grams (depends if im looking for a buzz[nearly impossible] or stave off w/d's [usually what i use it for]).. problem is that i am trying to get off my few day bupe binge after finally getting off after a LONG ass time, i took it for 3 days and get re-hooked on it.. my w/d's are mild but i take kratom at night and in the morning.. am i just delaying the inevitable or will this help with getting back to no dependence? should i just do what i usually do and go brutally CT? (I love the challenge of CT, it's like fighting myself and no matter what, i always win =D )

Pothedd
02-03-2011, 10:12
Lol it's not a secret if it's posted in a public forum.

But to answer your question yes and no. Your withdraws from kratom won't be as bad as from bupe, but the longer you take the kratom the worse the withdraw will be....
So kinda...
You may end up CT at some point, but if you use kratom wisely and taper off you should be so close to baseline when you stop, that to fall the rest of the way won't hurt.

HdoubleODeezy
02-03-2011, 10:20
Lol it's not a secret if it's posted in a public forum.


lol i realized that after i said it.. oops secrets out.. no, really tho anyone can try it and it's nice.

and i suppose you're right about kratom wd being easier than bupe, but i consider bupe w/d's easy tho, especially right now.. but i just dont wanna deal with them so i have been taking kratom the past few days. not sure when i should stop or taper n shit cuz i have the house to myself for 3 weeks and i dont wanna be sick through the whole thing (even tho w/d's last 3days-1week for me at most) i just wanna enjoy myself. (and keep practicing my throwing knife/throwing quills/double sided spikes) skills combined with some hapkido.

Pothedd
02-03-2011, 10:27
I guess a good method for easing WDs, instead of taking the drug in anticipation of the withdrawal, would be to wait until you see the first signs you're withdrawing and take a smaller than average dose accordingly. This would be to relieve negative effects and function normally, and not in an attempt to get high, obviously.

If you have enough kratom and don't mind WD at some point you could just keep doing it. Lol I just mean you're attitude is already that you can kick any WD's ass at any given moment. So yea...
'Sall on you mang!

HdoubleODeezy
02-03-2011, 10:31
lol yeah, i dont mean to sound like i can kick any w/d's ass it's just i CT'd bupe after 4 years and w/d'd bad for 5 days and by day 7 was completely normal and stayed completely clean for a month up to this 3 day "binge" so im cocky about it cuz i thought i was 1)gonna be on it for life or 2) go through hellish w/d's but neither happened(im talking about after 4 years.. not 3days).. i'll figure something out.. thanks for your help.

Pothedd
02-03-2011, 10:34
Yea I didn't mean anything by it either I was just sayin you sound like you got it under control.
Especially now that I know you bailed on the bupe after 4 years. You'll be fine! Lol XD

histaminejunky
03-03-2011, 22:08
:)I wanted to report my experiences with Kratom (a legal herbal supplement). I know there is a lot of debate out there, and not too many people have tried this stuff successfully, at least not all the forms, due to its moderate to high cost. I however have tried all forms, as well as different strains of this plant. My finding is that it does work well, you do get high, and the high is like that of taking hydro, or oxy, or similar opiate in low dose form. Now for the nitty gritty answers to your questions:

My personal background: I’m a 2-3 time a week opiate user, I do inject as well as oral use, and I take approximately 30-40mg at a time and dose 2-3 times when I do use. So I have some tolerance to opiates, and the basic fact that I could get high off this stuff tells me there is something to it. FYI I’m at a body weight of 150lbs age 36. I also smoke pot on occasion, and have experimented with many drugs in my time(name it I have done it). This one is the best “legal high” I have come across.

To cut to the chase, the only effective version of this drug is the Maeng Da plant, and only in the enhanced form. What I mean by that is there are special forms available on the internet called “super RX MD extract” or “Ultra enhanced kratom”. This form is the ONLY one that gave me my money’s worth. You only need to take 200mg-400mg of the powder (best served up in a capsule, if you have one, fill it, then swallow it like a pill).
Do not waste your time, or money on dried plant material, or resin, or tinctures, or 20x,80x powders. They are for the weak minded placebo stricken individuals.

Also don’t take to much as it will cause nervousness. Start with the lowest dose and work your way up in 100mg increments, keep in mind that anything over 500mg will not have any more effect. So if you took 1000mg it’s the same effect as if you took 500mg, you will only be left with the undesirable effects like additional nervousness or possible nausea. 200-400mg is the sweet spot. After taking a high does you will need to allow 24 hrs until the next does otherwise you will have a lessons effect.


I have experimented using it to help me come through withdrawals off opiats and it is useful for that, seems to curb some of the side effects, gets rid of the craving by supplementing itself. I also found it to be helpful with pain relief, just a bit though. Good luck and happy drugging…. =D

Vader
03-03-2011, 22:57
I think you mean "kratom". Lots of people have used this with good results (myself included), there's a mega-thread with a lot of good material in OD. I'm also unsure of whether they allow prices in this forum, you might want to edit them out as they add little to a trip report.

I also smoke pot on occasion, and have experimented with many drugs in my time(name it I have done it)
beta-hydroxy-alpha,4-dimethylfentanyl? 4,5-methylendioxy-N,N-ethylisopropyltryptamine?

His Name Is Frank
03-03-2011, 23:11
Sorry, but this not a trip report. I'm going to edit the title from Krytom to Kratom and shift it over to OD. Also, price discussion isn't allowed. I edited that out of your post.

amapola
03-03-2011, 23:26
To say that the only effective version of the drug is an enhanced Maeng Dang plant is completely incorrect. I think the reason you don't get any effects from any of the lesser strength preparations is because you also have a solid opiate tolerance from shooting up 2 or 3 times a week but this will be different for other people.

Also for your information Kratom is illegal in many parts of the world and it does in fact contain opioid alkaloids as your wording seems to imply that it isn't an opioid itself.

I'm going to merge this into The Kratom Thread

Seattle_Stranger
04-03-2011, 00:15
To say that the only effective version of the drug is an enhanced Maeng Dang plant is completely incorrect. I think the reason you don't get any effects from any of the lesser strength preparations is because you also have a solid opiate tolerance from shooting up 2 or 3 times a week but this will be different for other people.

Also for your information Kratom is illegal in many parts of the world and it does in fact contain opioid alkaloids as your wording seems to imply that it isn't an opioid itself.

I'm going to merge this into The Kratom Thread

Agreed! The cheapest stuff you can find, the premium commercial regular powdered leaf gives you the most bang for buck. However, not everyone can handle drinking a huge cup of mud to get their buzz on. %)

Personally, I'm a fan of it requiring me to drink this nasty stuff because it discourages re-dosing.

killermunchies
04-03-2011, 06:21
Agreed! The cheapest stuff you can find, the premium commercial regular powdered leaf gives you the most bang for buck. However, not everyone can handle drinking a huge cup of mud to get their buzz on. %)

Personally, I'm a fan of it requiring me to drink this nasty stuff because it discourages re-dosing.

I completely agree. I almost always use commercial bali and it still works great after 3 months of using it every other night. I've also managed not to increase my dose, although I've used 12-14 grams since the start which is higher than what a lot of people report here.

I've considered getting UEI kratom but the price difference per dose isn't worth it to me. Eating 12 grams of kratom isn't exactly great, but it gets easier over time. Although sometimes I will gel cap it all if I'm really not feeling the toss and wash that night.

Nib
04-03-2011, 09:21
You guys need to learn how to parachute. I can do 5-6g's at a time and it's really not hard with practice. I usually do three 4g parachutes for my normal dose. Takes me less than 10 minutes. Just have to let stomach settle after the second one for a few minutes.