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Pegasus
13-12-2010, 00:27
^(@catcalls) I don't think he meant mix it to smoke together (could be wrong, I guess)... You can always eat or vaporize the marijuana. I'm a healthy guy... I do some pretty intensive workouts, and I could not stand the harm being done to my respiratory system by smoking. I bought a basic $50 manual (lighter-powered) vaporizer and it works wonderfully to get me high; it is just like smoking (I don't really like eating weed that often...), and feels the same as far as good effects but doesn't have the negative effects of smoke inhalation. Definitely worth looking into, IMO.

Catcalls, I also seem to remember you saying that kratom is very expensive. Have you tried swallowing the kratom in capsules, parachutes, or even with juice or milk? Basically, have you swallowed the leaf grinds whole instead of boiling in a tea? It is more conservative to eat whole, and from what I have heard, the nausea/ side effects are not really lessened by tea. Have you tried both and found that the tea works better? If so, what specifically is it about the tea?

NeighborhoodThreat
13-12-2010, 00:38
Catcalls, I do apologize, pegasus had it on the money, I meant smoking while on the kratom...not combining them. Smoking 20-30 minutes after kratom consumption is the best result.

killermunchies
13-12-2010, 02:02
I've known about kratom for a while but never really gave it a second thought until I started getting drug tested. I'm kinda pissed I never found it earlier. This stuff is great. I've never used any real opiates in my life so I can't make the comparison but considering all the negative things I read about opiates, I have no desire to move on from kratom. Because of the drug tests, I really don't have a choice anyway.

I've found that kratom + JWH-250 is a great, law abiding feeling. I'm sure it's even better with weed but unfortunately, my smoking days and my kratom days never overlapped. Maybe some day...

NeighborhoodThreat
13-12-2010, 03:02
I've found that kratom + JWH-250 is a great, law abiding feeling.

haha, indeed. I'm currently experimenting with a spice + cannabis + kratom combination, its quite nice, a shame you can't smoke real cannabis but its a good thing alternatives exist...

As far as the negatives from opiates, well, the only negatives I've experienced are addiction and the inability to take a shit, kratom possesses both of these, but its legal and a bit milder. You've made a good choice :)

killermunchies
13-12-2010, 04:10
Ya, the negatives I was talking about are really just the addiction and the cost. So many people post here about how hard the addiction is to shake and pills cost a fortune where I am, at least with the people I know. I know kratom can also become addicting but it doesn't seem even close to as bad as long as you use it in moderation. Also, while kratom is sweet, I'm sure the real stuff can be a lot better. But as long as I don't know what I'm missing, I can feel awesome for like <snip> and pass my drug tests. In fact, I just took like 7-10 grams of bali a few minutes ago. Already starting to feel good :)






mod note- initially I was going to leave the price comment alone but when you added a specific dose in the next line, I decided to edit it. There's no price discussion so please don't attach any prices to quantities

killermunchies
13-12-2010, 06:55
Just a word of caution to kratom users. Think twice about redosing unless you have capsules so you don't have to taste the kratom. I took 7-10 grams a few hours ago and decided to take 2 more grams. I didn't feel nauseous at all until I tried to wash down the 2 grams. After puking from the taste, I feel good again but just figured I'd warn you guys. Kratom really does taste awful...

catcalls
13-12-2010, 07:14
Oh, I love the taste of Kratom tea. I also enjoy eating Peyote Buttons though! Haha. Iron mouth Mike is what they call me.

CaseFace
13-12-2010, 07:27
Oh, I love the taste of Kratom tea. I also enjoy eating Peyote Buttons though! Haha. Iron mouth Mike is what they call me.

You must have less sensitive or a smaller concentration of tastebuds or something, eeyhuuck.

oneswtwld
13-12-2010, 18:59
Oh, I love the taste of Kratom tea. I also enjoy eating Peyote Buttons though! Haha. Iron mouth Mike is what they call me.

peyote buttons are NOTHING compared to this shit....

They are even sweet....

I like the taste of Psilocybin(mushrooms)... caus eI know where its takin me...

but KRatom.... nah son.... it's rough... but worth it

Amberthefrog
13-12-2010, 20:33
peyote buttons are NOTHING compared to this shit....

They are even sweet....


REALLY?! I've never munched peyote, but dried san pedro is the most disgusting thing to ever have touched my taste buds, much worse than kratom tea. In fact I don't really mind the taste of kratom, though many people say the more you drink it, the worse it gets and I've never drank it frequently.

What follows is a summary of my findings when experimenting with kratom, along with my finding when experimenting with multiherb teas - probably some pretty unique but fairly useless ventures!

Kratom

Kratom is a pretty nice drug, it seems to have something missing as an opiate, don't really know what exactly. I still prefer it to tramadol (by far), codeine and DHC. Nice, relaxing but also stimulating state of being. Good for sex, good for socializing, good for sleep, good for introspection even. I love smoking weed on it, which is strange because I tend to find cannabis detracts from all other opoids (excepting oxycodone somewhat).

I have HPPD most of the time, you know the fuzzing black and white you get on an out of tune TV? Sober I have this weakly across my vision but in prismatic colours with emphasis on purple, white and red. Some drugs enhance this greatly, cannabis being the obvious example. Opiates generally decrease my HPPD, kratom however enhances it somewhat (as does tramadol).

Routes of administration

Smoked

The first time I tried kratom, it came in the form of several pre rolled kratom joints. The first one smoked did next to nothing. Later, I smoked a second with friends whilst high and it was felt mildly, the main affect being a very pleasurable feeling in my back and spine, kind of a strong physical opiate sensation but localized to this area alone. It seems a waste to smoke it, though it's in no way unpleasant.

Gel caps

Next came a pack of 10 gel caps, loaded with kratom. I took the recommended two and felt nothing. On a different day we were having a barbecue outside near a lake, me and my girl both took 4 and felt nothing, until we smoked on a spliff. As soon as the weed hit my lungs, a rush of warm comfort spread throughout my body, for about 5 minutes this was REALLY pleasurable. It quickly faded to very little and then nothing, further smoking didn't bring it back.

Tea

Took a while to get this right, once prep was correct though, this worked wonders. Comes on within 20 minutes, feels like a weak opiate physically (sometimes it can feel like a fairly strong opiate physically, especially with weed and some of the combos below), and something else entirely mentally. Very little of psychological 'warm blanket' effect, more of a mood lift/ relaxed social push, almost a buzz in ways. A good dose of kratom completely nullifies the anxiety smoking weed sometimes gives me, in general weed seems to enhance all the effects of kratom, the combo can produce some nice CEV's and HPPD enhancement - to the point of vivid OEV patterning. Lovely jubbly!

About the time I was experimenting with kratom, I was also testing other legal herbs. I did a fair bit of experimenting with various combo teas, what follows is a quick summary.

Combo Teas!

Kratom + Skullcap

Skullcap is a mildly sedating herb when smoked or consumed orally. It contains alkaloids that are probably positive allosteric modulators of the GABA a receptor. Nice tasting teas, good sleep aid, very cheap - worth a try IMO. Mixed with kratom in a tea, the result is a nice sedating synergy. Skullcap makes kratom stronger and more sedating, without compromising it's social attributes. The tea is also nicer than straight kratom tea. It also added about 30-40 minutes onto the kratom duration and makes for an excellent nights sleep with pleasent dreams.

Kratom + Valerian

Note: add valerian to tea when you would normally finish making straight kratom tea, i.e. don't approach boiling with the valerian present.

This was largely the same as kratom + skullcap (valerian and skullcap have similar pharmacology), it didn't however extend the kratom duration, nor did it enhance dreams beyond what kratom normally does. I find valerian has more or less a ceiling affect, making a tea above a certain strength adds little more, this is less true for skullcap.

Kratom + Skullcap + Valerian

Pretty sedating, excellent for sleep. Skullcap and valerian are definitely additive in terms of their effects. Pretty much the same as Kratom + skullcap, but it seems like more skullcap has been added.

Kratom + Blue Lotus (Nymphaea caerulea)

Blue lotus is IMO a vastly under rated herb. Smoked, it produces a pleasant but very mild relaxation, however tea is where it starts to shine. Strong blue lotus tea is a fairly powerful sedative, for me roughly equivalent to 20 diazepam. I prefer it to benzos any day though, there is a nice placid euphoria to it, it enhances taste and smell and produces some interesting almost opiate nod type CEV's. It's also an EXCELLENT aphrodisiac, in fact sex on blue lotus is second only to sex on amphetamine for me. Wine can also be made from it, but this takes ages, tastes foul and doesn't do anything tea doesn't already do apart from making one gag.

Be careful with the dose of both when making this combo tea, start low. Kratom can be a moderately strong respiratory depressant, as can b-lo. This combo tea tastes nice with generous amounts of honey and lemon thrown in. The result is a very, very relaxing and pretty euphoric state of being. Socializing is great, music is great, reading your favorite book is great, having sex is truly wonderful. The CEV's this combo triggers can be detailed and vibrant fractals, especially when weed is added.

Kratom + Blue Lotus + Skullcap

Repeat and emphasize above warning regarding respiratory depression. Feels the same as Kratom + Blue Lotus, only more sedating to the point where it's easy to drift off to sleep.

Note: I never actually experienced any respiratory depression from any of these teas, however I'm sure the issue could be very real.

Kratom + Damiana

Damiana by itself is a mild but pleasant herb. Smoking a damiana spliff is tasty and relaxing, nothing major but it's nice. Damiana bong hits are very, very smooth and easy (same is true for blue lotus actually). Damiana tea produces a slightly atypical relaxation, like kratom though there is a slight stimulating something going on. Watching a movie is pleasant, comfortable and engaging. I found damiana tea to be a mild aphrodisiac.

Now, the combo. The actual feeling produced by the tea is almost identical to just kratom, however it seems to potentiate it slightly and make it last slightly longer. It can also make sleep surprisingly difficult and enhances the HPPD enhancement kratom gives me. Oh yeah and sex is very nice on it, but no b-lo.

(On an off topic note Blue lotus/Damiana combo tea is a wonderful aphrodisiac, only tried it once though so I can't comment to well on it vs blue lotus alone).

Kratom + Damiana + Skullcap

Feels just like kratom + skullcap. The mild potential insomnia kratom + damiana can give me was nullified.

Kratom + Wild Dagga (Leonotis leonurus)

Wild dagga is a rather odd herb, at least for me. Most of the people I tried it with found it to do nothing or be mildly intoxicating/sedating. For me it produced a very unusual, focused, introspective state of mind with no hint of sedation at all. My normal way of taking it was to smoke it, seeing as tea effects were longer lived and for some reason I was never able to pin down, I didn't really like the feel of dagga dagga beyond a certain point of feeling it, or above a certain dose.

The combo tea produced effects in me similar to kratom tea, but with the social aspect enhance. At times there was a strong desire to converse. I found this enjoyable, where as dagga dagga alone was slightly strange and not very enjoyable. The response among my friends who tried it ranged from 'feels like kratom' to 'feels like kratom but more relaxing'. Also, my gut instinct is that dagga dagga would enhance any weed induced anxieties I would have (when I was experimenting with dagga, I didn't get anxiety/paranoia from cannabis). Would be interested in knowing if this is true now, and if it is, if kratom would nullify such an effect (I think it would).

Kratom + Opium lettuce (Lactuca virosa)

Opium lettuce is another mild GABAergic, it tends to be more sedating than skullcap or valerian, but less good as a sleep aid than either. It's less sedating than blue lotus. Unlike blue lotus and skull cap, it actually works fairly well when smoked - producing a pleasant relaxation (though it burns very fast and much has to be smoked).

In terms of it's strength in me as a sedative, I would say the following

Smoked

Opium lettuce > skullcap > blue lotus > kratom

Tea

Blue lotus > kratom > opium lettuce > skullcap > valerian

Tea as a sleep aid

Blue lotus > kratom > skullcap > valerian > opium lettuce

The combo tea of lettuce and kratom seems to be identical to kratom tea, unless LARGE amounts of the lettuce are used, in which case it adds to the body high a bit.

Kratom + Skullcap (large amount) + Opium lettuce (large amount)

This is a very sedating combination that feels physically a bit more like a stronger opiate, or adding a benzo to the opiate high. Excellent sleep, nice dreams. Basically it's akin to taking a benzo with kratom, only socializing comes easier.

A friend of mine drank a cup of this whilst on ketamine and passed out with a smile on his face, no respiratory depression was noted, but he had a considerable ketamine tolerance and I wouldn't advise anyone to replicate this.

CaseFace
13-12-2010, 21:17
Ahh the joys of botanical medicines. I agree that Blue ltous is vastly underrated. Have you ever tried a mixture of all 3 lotus flowers? Its very nice.

evvvvvv
13-12-2010, 21:59
i have never done kratom. heard great things, but never tried it. I am on 35mg of Methadone and for the last 3 months I used heroin regularly to get high still, I stopped 3 or 4 days ago and got back to my drink with no ill effects. Just wondering what I could expect from kratom. I would need a high dose im sure....I found aplace nearby that sells it. So, let me know what you guys think would be a reasonable amount and I'll let you know what happends. Or tell me now that I would be stupid to even use Kratom as it wont do anything.

Cane2theLeft
14-12-2010, 00:43
^I wouldn't even bother. With your high tolerance and the typical shitty quality of kratom sold at local places (presumably a head shop), its not worth it.

CaseFace
14-12-2010, 04:06
My Kratom arrived!

Except i have no way of eating it, i didn't get the chance to buy gel caps yet and i also don't have a scale. I guess im going to eat like 2 spoon fulls and wash it down and see what happens. I know more or less how much will fit into a certain number of gel caps so having a scale wont be an issue once i buy the caps but im definitely not looking forward to spooning this stuff into my mouth. :p

regfairfield
14-12-2010, 04:22
I love kratom...just had some a little while ago...


Makes me not even want to look around for opiates

robatussin
14-12-2010, 04:50
Having posted what I believe was the first 7-hydroxymytragynine trip report this site had to offer and having various experiences with different vendors etc here is what I have found.

The ground leaves ARE more cost effective. Kratom is especially good for bupe wds because bupe does not block the effects so it's long halflife will not stop you from you starting your kratom taper plans before any real wd sets in from cessation of bupe. The 15x and similar products are somewhat stornger and more suited to the "i wanna gel cap my shit" crowd. IMO the powdered leaf with no stems etc (looks more like green or yellow coke powder than marijuana in the bag) is the best "ground leaf" you can find. However I did order a big batch that looked like a big bag of shake and it did have Major effects however that could be due to me using more product in the tea due to thinking it was inferior. I have not tried the full spectrum extract, however I would think it would lack something the leaves have as it is not known how the more than thirty some odd alkaloids synergize with one another.

I recently ordered some JWH-018 and my experience with that reminded me of my 7-hydroxy experience....yeah it hits a receptor that the leaf does, but the leaves hit many other receptors as does "plain bud" marijuana (lol). The price for these extracts mainly based in ethanol is just too much for the amount of doses you can get from say an ounce of powdered leaves. It seems a lot of you agree and my reports range from "this just makes me want heroin more.....to "glowing". I have had crazy nods that always seem to come when my expectations are low.

For those of you who make tea, your stomach tells you when you have had enough. You get a "full" appetite suppresant quality before the nausea if you drink too much too fast. The time your stomach feels like not drinking more is usually when the euphoric aspects set in if you SIP the tea. Please dont chug tea as this is not beer and bad side effects will haunt your experience if you trat it with the more is better attitude. There is a right and wrong way to go about this plant. Treat it with respect and it will most likely reward you beyond expectations (esp for an herbal remedy for opiate addiction). I am a member of what I think is the biggest kratom forum although i have not visited in a while and am not sure if it even still exists. I read so many peoples wonderful stories about kicking their opiate of choice which was (for reasons unknown) always called "hydro" on that site. SO many people used that term but I have a feeling it was not always specifically indicative of hydrocodone but rather a term for "my synthetic opiate of choice"

Kratom is the best thing you could ever wish for if you want to kick and have the willpower to not let the mental craving pull you back into your habbit.

This is my 2 cents about all the products out there, however I do like the "resin" but have not tried it enough to say if it is better than leaves for the price. I imagine that any extracted version has an added tax for having the extraction done for you. The leaves are just being distributed and no work has to be done to them to make them work "better". Therefore I am on the side that powdered and even crushed leaves with stems are the best bet for the money. Make your own "extract" by making strong...or weak tea which can be judged by the darkness of the tea in my experience

NeighborhoodThreat
14-12-2010, 15:21
Amber, those are some interesting combinations, I've been wanting to try kratom and valarian for quite some time now :)

Cane2theLeft
14-12-2010, 15:28
I'm personally a huge fan of the kratom + kava combo if you have a decent kava product.

Perhaps due to the noradrenergic effects of kratom, I tend to get muscle spasm/stiffness in my back (to which I'm predisposed to) and kava, on top of being pleasant and enjoyable to me anyway, is the most effective herbal/OTC muscle relaxant that I have found.

Kava kava itself has always seemed to be mildly euphorigenic to me and I enjoy the cognitive clarity it produces in contrast to most pharmaceutical or herbal anxiolytics. The kava kava effects simply seem to synergize sublimely with the kratom.

catcalls
16-12-2010, 04:33
Cutting down the number of Kratom teas I have in a day. From 30 a day, down to roughly 6-7 cups in 24 hour period.

Couldn't sleep yesterday, too wired. So, had a few cups to relax.

Not too badly addicted to it now. It is possible to get off the Kratom even after prolonged use.

FattyAcid
16-12-2010, 05:08
30 cups a day? wow.....what did kratom do for you at that frequency of dose? How much of what kind of kratom would you use?

CaseFace
16-12-2010, 05:10
Cutting down the number of Kratom teas I have in a day. From 30 a day, down to roughly 6-7 cups in 24 hour period.

Couldn't sleep yesterday, too wired. So, had a few cups to relax.

Not too badly addicted to it now. It is possible to get off the Kratom even after prolonged use.

It's possible to get off heroin as well after prolonged use. Doesn't mean it'll be easy. ;)

Pegasus
16-12-2010, 05:22
Holy shit, 30 cups a day? How much in each cup? I'm really curious because when I take kratom, I can't take any more that a certain amount every few hours or I'll get sick...

catcalls
16-12-2010, 05:29
Well, I'm not an uber kratom user. The 30 cups were made from a single tea bag with repeated dosing in boiling water. I just found that if the water turns brown, drink it down.

So, like, I'd fill a regular sized muslin tea bag with draw string top with as much Commercial Bali powder as it would hold, and keep dosing until the water turned clear. Yeah, I'd get that sickness feeling too as well. But, it does not last forever. And after like 30 minutes you can dose again.

catcalls
16-12-2010, 05:30
It's possible to get off heroin as well after prolonged use. Doesn't mean it'll be easy. ;)

Yes, I've done the heroin cold turkey. The rattle is quite severe, eh? Well, I remember it taking two weeks before I felt 'normal' again, but the saddest thing is that I started using pretty much straight after getting straight. Excuse the pun.

CaseFace
16-12-2010, 06:10
Yeah, Too bad you can't use kratom to get off kratom like im usin it to get off sub haha.

And now that we know you were dosing with the same bag that makes it a little better.


And we do have an http://i.bluelight.ru/bl/buttons/edit.gif button. ;)

OhZvir
16-12-2010, 23:58
I bought recently x20 extract, four grams.. It was pretty pricy. But I've read good things about it and had a back ache lasting for weeks, so I decided to try it out.
I tried it in tea, tried in capsules, I did 1 g and didn't notice much besides edginess and a slightly warm feeling like I am coming up on a low dosage of some opiod pain killer.. And it was on an empty stomach in the morning. The effect went away rather fast and I felt disappointed as I read people getting extreme euphoria and even hallucinations. I ended up doing the rest of the 4 grams in a day and it was weaker than Tramadol in terms of euphoria (and more expansive).
I am glad that some of you found Kratom to be awesome. I am rather skeptical. :\

RedBaron
17-12-2010, 00:22
Hallucinations? I don't know anyone who's experienced CEV or OEV from kratom, interesting.
And you're right, it's not very strong (I find it to give a better feeling than tramadol though). But that's probably a big reason why it is still legal.
The extracts tend to vary widely by vendor, so you may have just gotten inferior product.

catcalls
17-12-2010, 00:24
I bought recently x20 extract, four grams.. It was pretty pricy. But I've read good things about it and had a back ache lasting for weeks, so I decided to try it out.
I tried it in tea, tried in capsules, I did 1 g and didn't notice much besides edginess and a slightly warm feeling like I am coming up on a low dosage of some opiod pain killer.. And it was on an empty stomach in the morning. The effect went away rather fast and I felt disappointed as I read people getting extreme euphoria and even hallucinations. I ended up doing the rest of the 4 grams in a day and it was weaker than Tramadol in terms of euphoria (and more expansive).
I am glad that some of you found Kratom to be awesome. I am rather skeptical. :\

I scored 100 grams for no prices. That 100g bag has lasted me a long time. If I were to buy no prices worth of heroin, it'd be gone in thirty minutes.

Prior to that, I tried extract, which sucked, was expensive, and did not last!

I usually need 12g in a tea. I remember buying a 25g bag, for more money than the 100g bag, thinking it'll last longer because its better quality.

But, it only lasted a few days :( A week at most.

The pain killing effects is why I used Kratom initially. For instance, I had flu, and sore ribs from coughing. The kratom tea meant I could cough as much as I wanted without clasping my ribs! Then, the following week after the flu. I develop tooth ache and have to have a wisdom tooth out. Long story short, the Dentist left a tooth fragment in the hole which cut into my gum when I bit down on the cotton gauze to stop the bleeding! That caused me major pain when the anesthetic wore off. So, I used Kratom for the pain.

Now, if you are in pain, you don't get the euphoric effects so pronounced on Kratom. I realised this soon after dislodging the tooth fragment from my gum. I literally orgasmed from the Kratom inside me when the pain was removed from the equation.

Then, after all that, I had developed a regular Kratom habit. One I have to this day. I use roughly 6g-10g daily now, cutting down from the higher doses I took whilst in pain.

But, 4g of Kratom will not work! Especially not in a tea. You should've got a 100g bag of the stuff and dosed until you were high (if that is your goal). Because, Kratom works, but not for ex-junkies only in higher doses.

It's comparative to hitting a joint for the first time, once, and saying, well that did not get me high...weed is shit. I'm sceptical. Ha!

You must've got ripped off by some shady Kratom dealer. You need a sound supplier as well, because some people boil the leaf down to make extracts and then sell the leaf on! Be careful buying off the Internet! Once you find a decent supplier, stick with them for life. Be it a headshop, always shop there. I bought from my cannabis seed supplier! I trust that site like my own mother. And they are the cheapest suppliers on the Net for the UK.

RedBaron
17-12-2010, 01:43
But, 4g of Kratom will not work! Especially not in a tea. You should've got a 100g bag of the stuff and dosed until you were high (if that is your goal). Because, Kratom works, but not for ex-junkies only in higher doses.


He's referring to a 20x extract, not standard commercial grade. It only takes me 1.25g of <snip> kratom to get high, but it takes approx 15g of the commercial to achieve desired effects.

Nib
17-12-2010, 02:07
I bought recently x20 extract, four grams.. It was pretty pricy. But I've read good things about it and had a back ache lasting for weeks, so I decided to try it out.
I tried it in tea, tried in capsules, I did 1 g and didn't notice much besides edginess and a slightly warm feeling like I am coming up on a low dosage of some opiod pain killer.. And it was on an empty stomach in the morning. The effect went away rather fast and I felt disappointed as I read people getting extreme euphoria and even hallucinations. I ended up doing the rest of the 4 grams in a day and it was weaker than Tramadol in terms of euphoria (and more expansive).
I am glad that some of you found Kratom to be awesome. I am rather skeptical. :\

Find some good plain leaf. Extracts usually need some plain leaf mixed with them to make them worth it. Even then I wouldn't bother with them.

droogz
17-12-2010, 02:18
Sorry I haven't been bothered to be honest to look through the whole of the thread but which type of kratom is the best: there's all different kind like kratom resin kratom leaf kratom extract to Bali Kratom powdered Mitragyna Speciosa, kratom Thai Dragonfly kratom, <snip>(liquid drops ) and also smokeable joints which I have been told are a waste of money even though there from a decent site

Are any of them good enough for a heavy cocaine or alcohol hangover/ comedown ?either the day your coming down or the next day you feel like shite ?

<snip>
no drug testing questions - C2tL

catcalls
17-12-2010, 02:32
He's referring to a 20x extract, not standard commercial grade. It only takes me 1.25g of <snip> kratom to get high, but it takes approx 15g of the commercial to achieve desired effects.

Oh, I'd disagree with this statement completely. The extract is terrible. I never got 'high' from it. But, the commercial grade leaf, after drinking like 5-6 teas made from it, I was ready to puke on my very first dosing.

RedBaron
17-12-2010, 03:12
^I think we can chalk that up to vendor discrepancies.
<snip> works for me and many others who have tried it. Although a little more expensive per dose, I'd rather parachute a little gram ball of that than make 5-6 teas. Yuckkk.
Some extracts are crap, you just need the right vendor.

darkvein
17-12-2010, 03:25
Question yall, I just bought my very first bag of kratom, it got shipped here, just got it yesterday. I went to the doc tuesday so I wasn't in withdrawl when I got it. (i WAS in wd when I ordered it though, haha lol isn't it ironic) so how much krat/what ROA do you experienced kratom users suggest I use for my first dose? I don't have any capsules, I just got powdered maeng da kratom, 1 oz. I do have a digi scale also

Btw I have a significant opiate tolerance.

Also, I've heard you can get either a stimulant effect OR a depressant effect from this substance. What would be the difference, dosage-wise for achieving these two opposite feelings? I don't really plan on using the kratom until I run out of my fentanyl, even then I have a couple hundred percs but I don't like to use them cause of the APAP, and I need a large amount of them to suppress w/d, so they're essentially useless... And doing a cwe (which I've never actually done) would make me feel nervous about screwing up my medication, rendering it even MORE useless, lol

Thanks 4 the suggestions

Cane2theLeft
17-12-2010, 03:27
Sorry I haven't been bothered to be honest to look through the whole of the thread but which type of kratom is the best: there's all different kind like kratom resin kratom leaf kratom extract to Bali Kratom powdered Mitragyna Speciosa, kratom Thai Dragonfly kratom, Essence of Hydroxy(liquid drops ) and also smokeable joints which I have been told are a waste of money even though there from a decent site

Are any of them good enough for a heavy cocaine or alcohol hangover/ comedown ?either the day your coming down or the next day you feel like shite ?

<snip>
no drug testing questions - C2tL

A lot of it is preference and what one vendor sells as a quality extract might be labeled the same as what someone else sells that's total shit.

In the past most people have preferred high-quality whole-leaf products to extracts however a lot of different extraction techniques and products have come out recently, some of which get positive reviews.

Since there isn't industry-wide regulation, there is too much variance to say "X" is the best unless you're referring to a specific vendor's product and that isn't allowed on here.

Also, this thread isn't for product reviews and everyone's views are going to differ on what they enjoy/prefer anyway.

regfairfield
17-12-2010, 04:29
A lot of it is preference and what one vendor sells as a quality extract might be labeled the same as what someone else sells that's total shit.

In the past most people have preferred high-quality whole-leaf products to extracts however a lot of different extraction techniques and products have come out recently, some of which get positive reviews.

Since there isn't industry-wide regulation, there is too much variance to say "X" is the best unless you're referring to a specific vendor's product and that isn't allowed on here.

Also, this thread isn't for product reviews and everyone's views are going to differ on what they enjoy/prefer anyway.

kratom is very trial error..like i said before to anyone trying it...find the right dosage and the right vendor and kratom can be a very enjoyable experience

RedBaron
17-12-2010, 04:31
Question yall, I just bought my very first bag of kratom, it got shipped here, just got it yesterday. I went to the doc tuesday so I wasn't in withdrawl when I got it. (i WAS in wd when I ordered it though, haha lol isn't it ironic) so how much krat/what ROA do you experienced kratom users suggest I use for my first dose? I don't have any capsules, I just got powdered maeng da kratom, 1 oz. I do have a digi scale also

Btw I have a significant opiate tolerance.

Also, I've heard you can get either a stimulant effect OR a depressant effect from this substance. What would be the difference, dosage-wise for achieving these two opposite feelings? I don't really plan on using the kratom until I run out of my fentanyl, even then I have a couple hundred percs but I don't like to use them cause of the APAP, and I need a large amount of them to suppress w/d, so they're essentially useless... And doing a cwe (which I've never actually done) would make me feel nervous about screwing up my medication, rendering it even MORE useless, lol

Thanks 4 the suggestions

Hmm... not sure how much you should take. How significant of a tolerance are we talking here? What's your daily dose of normal opiate? There's a fine line between a good high and an over-the-top, puking, unpleasant experience, so it's hard to guess your dose based on "significant tolerance", or really based on anything, as kratom has interesting pharmacology.
And as far as I've read, lower doses cause more stimulation, higher doses cause more depressant effects. I shoot for the high dose effects, but I still find it hard to sleep afterward sometimes. I'm guessing you get both effects at any dose, but one is more pronounced at different doses.

Cane2theLeft
17-12-2010, 04:45
^exactly- at lower doses with less mu agonism, the stimulant effects are more pronounced. At higher doses with more mu agonism, the sedative properties are more pronounced.

robatussin
17-12-2010, 05:09
If you read between the lines here specific vendors are being implicated.....I suppose it is ok because the names are not mentioned but if you have ever shopped around <snip> is pretty specific vendor wise....at least from my recollection. Different vendors use different kratom slang, and I assume <snip> is vendor specific. My tincture was not called that and google + what is being said here can lead you straight to vendors. I am not a mod, but all I am saying is this is kind of a grey area when it comes to the rules of this site. I really do not want this thread closed so can we generalize to plain leaf, powdered leaf, extracts that are indicated by a # like 15x, 20x, tinctures, resin, and bali, thai or whatever......that leaves more of a annonimity

CaseFace
17-12-2010, 05:24
Does bringing a mug of water to a boil in the microwave, then taking it out and popping the tea bag in work? I am guessing it will take a few cups before getting the whole dose, but i don't feel like boiling it on the stove right now. If i were to boil the kratom in the water on the stove, how long should i keep it boiling for?

Cane2theLeft
17-12-2010, 05:35
If you read between the lines here specific vendors are being implicated.....I suppose it is ok because the names are not mentioned but if you have ever shopped around <snip> is pretty specific vendor wise....at least from my recollection. Different vendors use different kratom slang, and I assume <snip> is vendor specific. My tincture was not called that and google + what is being said here can lead you straight to vendors. I am not a mod, but all I am saying is this is kind of a grey area when it comes to the rules of this site. I really do not want this thread closed so can we generalize to plain leaf, powdered leaf, extracts that are indicated by a # like 15x, 20x, tinctures, resin, and bali, thai or whatever......that leaves more of a annonimity

Thank you for bringing this to our attention... I went through and edited what you recommended.


*Mod Note*

There has been a lot of discussion that is flirting with source/vendor guidelines and this will not be tolerated. If a simple google search of a term you use directs one to specific vendors, this will be treated like any other source discussion.

Please take heed of this warning so this thread can remain open and thrive

robatussin
17-12-2010, 06:04
Thanks for noticing my noticing of "vendor flirting", and yeah those edits were necessary in my post.....I was only trying to point out how this was getting vendor specific using examples. The other terms at the end are very broad terms and i think should be the slang used to specify the types of kratom available to most if not all vendors

Cane2theLeft
17-12-2010, 06:20
^yeah, good call. I certainly appreciate it and fully understand why you used those terms.

Nib
17-12-2010, 06:32
Question yall, I just bought my very first bag of kratom, it got shipped here, just got it yesterday. I went to the doc tuesday so I wasn't in withdrawl when I got it. (i WAS in wd when I ordered it though, haha lol isn't it ironic) so how much krat/what ROA do you experienced kratom users suggest I use for my first dose? I don't have any capsules, I just got powdered maeng da kratom, 1 oz. I do have a digi scale also

Btw I have a significant opiate tolerance.

Also, I've heard you can get either a stimulant effect OR a depressant effect from this substance. What would be the difference, dosage-wise for achieving these two opposite feelings? I don't really plan on using the kratom until I run out of my fentanyl, even then I have a couple hundred percs but I don't like to use them cause of the APAP, and I need a large amount of them to suppress w/d, so they're essentially useless... And doing a cwe (which I've never actually done) would make me feel nervous about screwing up my medication, rendering it even MORE useless, lol

Thanks 4 the suggestions



Easiest way for me is to take 4g's and rip down a single ply piece of toilet paper a little more than half. Fold it up like your rolling a blunt and close the ends. Put the closed ends on the middle of your tongue a little towards the back and then fill your mouth with water before swallowling.

Since it's your first time and you got a big opiate tolerance I say go for 8 grams. You could do 2g pieces if 4 looks like to much. You could also try mixing with a bunch of yogurt if you can't do it. Kratom is kind of an acquired taste and it could take a bunch of strains before it even really works. Personally I don't like Maenga Da and it actually makes me dizzy.

There is the possibility 8 grams will get you sick though if you don't have a strong stomach but since you have an opiate tolerance you're gonna have to start higher.

Also Cold water extraction is not difficult at all and is not that easy to screw up.

robatussin
17-12-2010, 06:43
I want to note for the second time that there is (probably a few) kratom forums that discuss brands and vendors, I dont think directing people to a forum is against the rules and I am barely doing that. If you want to discuss brands with specific names please find it. I dont think directing people to a forum where they can drop brands and sources is against the rules....correct me if I am wrong

Cane2theLeft
17-12-2010, 06:48
^telling people to find other forums to discuss specific brands and vendors is certainly kosher... providing links to sites that discuss such things would not be.

Thanks for looking out, Rob.

robatussin
17-12-2010, 07:02
no prob cane, keep keeping this thread kosher. Keep in mind some people that post might not have read every page of this thread.....my intention is to keep it open. We got a good thing going here. To add additional kratom discussion, i think i might be the only one discussing resin here. I would like to see other peoples experience with resin as it is a relatively cheap extracted version that IMO kicks 15x-30x asses when it comes to more for your money. Roll the resin into balls and swallow like big pills....no choking on powder or leaves and no tea if that makes you sick (btw add lemon and lots of sugar and kratom tastes better than some regular teas IMO)

Cane2theLeft
17-12-2010, 07:07
^Have you had success mixing it with yogurt in the past? Perhaps it was just the type I had but it seems hydrophobic (repelled by/won't mix with water).

I tried to mix it in pudding and no matter what I did, it would not mix in.

robatussin
17-12-2010, 07:41
i have not tried yogurt or pudding, but I have noticed that it does take time to get submerged in the tea (esp with powders). Tea is an effective method for me but I guess for those who want to ingest the plant material, tea is not the way to do that. I will keep the yogurt method in mind. Does it maybe mask the taste better? If you toss and wash the powdered leaf products, one wrong move and you can instantaneously gag and vomit and or cough powder puffs into the air. This would turn anyone off to the experience vs what it takes to attain effects. I think taking one batch of powder and using it for multiple batches of tea is effective and you can toss (meaning throw away) the plant material after the color of the tea is much lighter than when you started. Not making multiple batches is wasteful.

I can def see a resistance to water that subsides....I always though of mytragynine and its friends as not opiates, but rather their own class that resemble opiates/iods. Further discussion about solubility of powders and especially those who have tried HIGH alkaloid extracts in water or water based foods like pudding. By high extracts I mean powders that have a majority of their weight in alkaloids. It compares more to the "powdered hash" of kratom (trying to not use terms vendors have to describe this type of high alkaloid powdered extract.....in fact i don't know if they exist anymore. Just having tasted that type of powder makes me want to agree with the "hydrophobic" comment when it comes to the alkaloids

robatussin
17-12-2010, 07:50
and all the tinctures are alcohol based, reminds me of benzo solubility which is totally water resistant (in most cases) but still fat soluble and alcohol soluble...though they find their way to our brains via sublingual methods.