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Seattle_Stranger
17-11-2011, 20:29
The only thing kratom really ever induced for me was a gag reflex, but I'm glad to see it works for so many people.

Try capsuling it. I personally use the huge size 000 capsules that hold nearly a gram of powder. Works great this way!

Especially with a good extract, you can usually fit a strong dose into just one or two capsules. Even plain leaf, with my high tolerance, it only takes me about ~10 caps for a strong buzz. Much easier and less gross than snarfing it.

Can't beat the speedy onset and small rush you get from snarfing it in OJ though.

I love snarfing...

in128770
22-11-2011, 05:50
Well, I thought Kratom was too good to be true, and at least for me, I think it is.

About a month ago, I had never heard of it until I was on this site, and is seemed from the threads it would be really good for my upcoming oxycodone wd's (30 day use/80-120mg per day) which I've always hated and never found anything to avoid them (Sub excluded). I was amazed that I hardly had any wd's, the product was legal, and relatively cheap. So all has been good for the first 3 weeks of use, and I've taken about 18-25g/day via capsules(probably a little on the high side as far as dose is concerned) of Indo Kratom from a reputable and highly reviewed source.

For the last 2.5 days, my stomach has been in chards, with a gurgling noise and diarrhea (I don't believe I've ever had diarrhea for more than a day). I believe someone else wrote in this thread of a very similar experience but I thought it was probably an abberation and didn't pay much attention.

I've also read here that kratom is in fact an opiate (plant-based). The only problems I've ever had with synthetic opiates (hydro and oxy) is constipation, which I never really minded, and thought that is likely all that Kratom would bring in terms of sides. But these side effects are a completely different animal, and assuming it is the Kratom(about 90% sure it is), then, well it has me rethinking the whole Kratom experience. And it really effin' sucks because I like Kratom, but I HATE the aforementined GI issues even more.:(

Any feedback would be appreciated.

I've read from several posters that Kratom is high in fiber. Any possible way that this is related to incorporating a very large amount of fiber into my diet (via Kratom) over the past 3-4 weeks??

MoosejawSanders
22-11-2011, 06:57
^It will change your stool because of both the high fiber content and the opioids within. As for the stomach rumbling, I'd say it could be related, or it could be something else.

in128770
22-11-2011, 07:09
^It will change your stool because of both the high fiber content and the opioids within. As for the stomach rumbling, I'd say it could be related, or it could be something else.
Do you know, roughly, the fiber per gram? Wouldn't the opioids within promote constipation or solid stool, as opposed to my issue?

MoosejawSanders
22-11-2011, 07:16
I didn't get your problem completely the first time. Yes, opioids should substantially slow down motility. I'll also say that this slow down for me was always stronger than the increased motility from the increased fiber in my experiences.

OEandricearoni
22-11-2011, 08:15
Well, I thought Kratom was too good to be true, and at least for me, I think it is.

About a month ago, I had never heard of it until I was on this site, and is seemed from the threads it would be really good for my upcoming oxycodone wd's (30 day use/80-120mg per day) which I've always hated and never found anything to avoid them (Sub excluded). I was amazed that I hardly had any wd's, the product was legal, and relatively cheap. So all has been good for the first 3 weeks of use, and I've taken about 18-25g/day via capsules(probably a little on the high side as far as dose is concerned) of Indo Kratom from a reputable and highly reviewed source.

For the last 2.5 days, my stomach has been in chards, with a gurgling noise and diarrhea (I don't believe I've ever had diarrhea for more than a day). I believe someone else wrote in this thread of a very similar experience but I thought it was probably an abberation and didn't pay much attention.

I've also read here that kratom is in fact an opiate (plant-based). The only problems I've ever had with synthetic opiates (hydro and oxy) is constipation, which I never really minded, and thought that is likely all that Kratom would bring in terms of sides. But these side effects are a completely different animal, and assuming it is the Kratom(about 90% sure it is), then, well it has me rethinking the whole Kratom experience. And it really effin' sucks because I like Kratom, but I HATE the aforementined GI issues even more.:(

Any feedback would be appreciated.

I've read from several posters that Kratom is high in fiber. Any possible way that this is related to incorporating a very large amount of fiber into my diet (via Kratom) over the past 3-4 weeks??

I've had some stomach discomfort as well since starting kratom. It seems my stomach churns a lot after taking a dose, so it probably is the kratom causing that. As for the diarrhea, i don't have that problem. I took suboxone for a long time, and was always constipated, only having bowel movements 1-2 times a week. This hasnt changed since i've started taking kratom, so i dont think its causing your diarrhea, but I'm no doctor and it very well could be possible

in128770
22-11-2011, 15:52
I've had some stomach discomfort as well since starting kratom. It seems my stomach churns a lot after taking a dose, so it probably is the kratom causing that. As for the diarrhea, i don't have that problem. I took suboxone for a long time, and was always constipated, only having bowel movements 1-2 times a week. This hasnt changed since i've started taking kratom, so i dont think its causing your diarrhea, but I'm no doctor and it very well could be possible

Thanks. I've been off Sub for about a year, it did the same to me. How long have you used Kratom?

muskolo
22-11-2011, 21:13
Ok, I could use some serious opinions here if anyone has the time.

Back in May I got off bupe and I used Kratom for the w/d's; it felt great and I would experience euphoria. After I quit taking Kratom, I didn't take anything for a few months and now when I take it I get absolutely no euphoria but a slight body buzz. I switched vendors because of an overcharge on shipping.

Is it likely that I just have not been able to find another good vendor or is something else to blame for my lack of euphoria since I am totally off everything and only take Kratom every so often? I'm considering going back to my original vendor since that seems to be the likely culprit but I'm curious if anyone else has experienced a similar situation.

OEandricearoni
30-11-2011, 03:21
^yeah must just be getting some crappy kratom or something. Maybe try a different strain, or a new vendor. It's not like its hard to find kratom vendors, there are many.



Thanks. I've been off Sub for about a year, it did the same to me. How long have you used Kratom?

I havent been using kratom all that long.I started sometime in early october. It kinda sucks TBH, now i have to worry about having kratom to get through the day. I'd almost rather still be on suboxone, but i know when the time comes to stop taking the kratom, it will be a hell of a lot easier to do, time wise, than quitting suboxone. Sub WDs can last over a month and that is god damn ridiculous. Kratom withdrawals will be over in like a week, much more manageable when you have school and work to contend with

It actually may not be kratom causing your stomach problems, it could be anxiety. I know that when i am worried about things, i get stomach pain. I've been pretty stressed since i started kratom and it could be that causing my stomach pain and i am incorrectly attributing it to the kratom. I really don't know though.

Pegasus
30-11-2011, 03:58
^I agree that Suboxone is better to stay on long term. The benefit from kratom is highest when used just to substitute in withdrawal.

inpain828
09-12-2011, 12:12
To an earlier post kratom is not a plant based opiate. Highly doubt that it would cause you to get diarrhea if anything i think you would be come constipated.

D's
12-12-2011, 20:48
Fucking heroin withdrawls suck. ;(((. Im out of cash, and just took the last little slit of suboxone film i had. I managed to hold off takin my last bit of kratom. I have 6g.left maybe does anyone know if suboxone mixd with kratom will boost each others effects in aiding withdrawls. I've read that kratom has an anti-opiaye type effect. Like theres a chemical in kratom that is similar to thr naxolone in suboxone. You think mixing the 2 will have any adverse reactions? Or will they both cancel out each other. I dosed the sub maybe an hour ago and the h wds arnt as bad now, when should i dose the kratom if any?.. thanks

jazz hands
12-12-2011, 20:50
To an earlier post kratom is not a plant based opiate. Highly doubt that it would cause you to get diarrhea if anything i think you would be come constipated.

Huh? It contains mu-opioid agonists and certainly will cause constipation, just like any traditional opiate.

Oxide
12-12-2011, 21:46
Well, I think what he was trying to say is that Kratom is not an "opiate" in the traditional sense; meaning that it is not derived from the poppy plant. So, while it does contain mu-agonist alkaloids (as well as others) it shouldn't be considered an 'opiate' in the same sense as say, morphine or codeine.

jazz hands
12-12-2011, 22:22
Not an opiate, but an opioid... and plant based.

Oxide
12-12-2011, 23:07
Not that I'm trying to argue semantics with you here, but this is how I have always defined the two terms:

Opioid: A synthetic narcotic that resembles the naturally occurring opiates.

Opiate: Naturally occurring opiates and their derivatives.

Anyway, I suppose Kratom could be called an opioid depending on your definition of the term. My point was that the alkaloids are not poppy-derived, so it really isn't a 'typical' opiate/oid. Enough of all of that though.

To answer the question about Buprenorphine and Kratom: a little googling yielded this thread. (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/341336-kratom-and-buprenorphine)

King J
13-12-2011, 01:44
Well, I thought Kratom was too good to be true, and at least for me, I think it is.

About a month ago, I had never heard of it until I was on this site, and is seemed from the threads it would be really good for my upcoming oxycodone wd's (30 day use/80-120mg per day) which I've always hated and never found anything to avoid them (Sub excluded). I was amazed that I hardly had any wd's, the product was legal, and relatively cheap. So all has been good for the first 3 weeks of use, and I've taken about 18-25g/day via capsules(probably a little on the high side as far as dose is concerned) of Indo Kratom from a reputable and highly reviewed source.

For the last 2.5 days, my stomach has been in chards, with a gurgling noise and diarrhea (I don't believe I've ever had diarrhea for more than a day). I believe someone else wrote in this thread of a very similar experience but I thought it was probably an abberation and didn't pay much attention.

I've also read here that kratom is in fact an opiate (plant-based). The only problems I've ever had with synthetic opiates (hydro and oxy) is constipation, which I never really minded, and thought that is likely all that Kratom would bring in terms of sides. But these side effects are a completely different animal, and assuming it is the Kratom(about 90% sure it is), then, well it has me rethinking the whole Kratom experience. And it really effin' sucks because I like Kratom, but I HATE the aforementined GI issues even more.:(

Any feedback would be appreciated.

I've read from several posters that Kratom is high in fiber. Any possible way that this is related to incorporating a very large amount of fiber into my diet (via Kratom) over the past 3-4 weeks??

Hey man.

Well you're doing it wrong.

You will need Kratom to help stop the physical withdrawal from your brain but you'll also need over the counter diarhea medicine called Loperamide - this is the active chemical you want to see in the box. You can find it anywhere with generic anti-diarhea.

You will see online Loperamide is a legal opioid but it only binds to the intestines. This is CRUCIAL. Kratom binds to opiate receptors in brain while Loperamide will bind to your stomach. It'll make you not shit and by the 3rd and 4th day you'll feel a lot better.

I'd recommend getting some anti-anxiety meds for withdrawal. To stay away from benzo's you can use Benadryl (hit or miss if works for you) or even Hydroxine (Vistril). Hydroxine should work well. Any doc will prescribe it.

If you want to use benzo's that's all on you just don't catch another addiction.

This formula works. I am heavy on pills and dope. I was so skeptic to drop like $50-$100 on this sh-t when in reality you know what I was thinking: that money could be used on dope. But I did buy it and it's helped me out TREMENDOUSLY when I'm broke or out of sh-t.

It's worth your while. Gaurantee it'll work. If you want to get clean and stay clean, that's all up to you and motivation. TO avoid embarrassing inpatient scenarios etc, I would do outpatient OR a simple 1 hour a day NA meeting. Try it once. It'll get you out and motivate ya. I haven't done it and personally I've made it on only day 3 clean so far but it's a 3 day bump...this formula does work. It's up to you to stick it out. The want/crave to get high will be there...maybe even always. It's up to you.

G'luck

PS: It's essential you purchase 000 capsules. You can buy prefilled 000 capsules of Kratom from Amazon! It works great. I take 3 as a dose and the physical withdrawal is gone and I can do whatever.

Leaping Gnome
13-12-2011, 17:59
King J,

I didn't go on-line for the Kratom, I got 15 grams it at a local shop. I wanted it fast before my Oxycodone ran out to make sure it would work. If it didn't, then I was going for the on-line Tramadol. I was using it along with the Oxy and I went from 120mg-150mg a day to 60mg a day and felt fine.

I woke up in HARD WD this morning at 2:00am! I had 3 15mg Oxy left to get through today. I ended up having to take a second one by 3:00am. I finally got some relief by 4:30am. At 10:30am I ended up taking my last Oxy. I figured it would be best to take it now when I'm only just feeling bad than to wait until later when I'm really bad off and 15mg won’t do much anyway.

I go to the Dr. tomorrow morning for my last script of Oxy he can write before the new Florida laws kick in on 1-1-12. As it turns out, the pharmacy may refuse to even fill it. There was a write up in the Cape Coral Sunday paper that a couple of the chain pharmacies have been refusing to fill scripts of Oxy. There were the names and stories from a number of people the reasons for not filling.

Here’s the URL to the article: http://www.news-press.com/article/20111213/HEALTH/312130002/Exclusive-Lee-County-pharmacies-refuse-fill-meds?odyssey=mod|mostview

Leaping Gnome

Seattle_Stranger
15-12-2011, 22:11
For those of you who use kratom habitually, maybe even daily, I have some questions. I use kratom almost every day, ideally it would be every other day, but as of late it's been daily. I've been using it for about a year now. I notice that tolerance builds very slowly when I leave 2 or 3 days between uses, however when using daily, tolerance skyrockets. The obvious answer to many of my questions is "Take a break." I know that, I'm not dumb, and I do take breaks occasionally. :)


Do you have any tricks or methods to deal with tolerance? I'm not asking how to REDUCE tolerance, I'm asking if you have any methods to squeeze just a little more out of your kratom when high amounts of alkaloid are required. I can't simply just keep taking more kratom, for reasons listed below:
Do you notice kratom has a 'ceiling effect'? Meaning you can only take so much of it, until it simply just stops working, you just won't get any higher, as if you hit a 'ceiling'?
As I understand, as a person builds tolerance to most popular drugs like heroin, oxy, cocaine, etc., you simply have to take more and more and more to achieve a satisfactory high. If I use many days in a row, I will actually get to a point where I'll wake up in the morning, have a high dose of kratom, and literally not feel it at all. I will then re-dose again and again to the point where I have injested an ungodly amount of powdered leaf, and still not feel it at all. Do others notice this? (also known as a ceiling effect)
Does anyone notice that extracts/tinctures will allow you to dose higher and avoid the ceiling effect?
Does anyone notice that DXM helps manage kratom tolerance?
Does anyone think that antacids like cimetidine can help prevent tolerance, or worsen it?
When your tolerance to kratom is up, do you notice better results from toss 'n wash, mix 'n chug, or steeped-then-strained tea style? I usually mix 'n chug with orange juice, this gives me the fastest and most potent onset and the best chance of getting a satisfying high.
When you simply chug down all the powdered leaf material, do you think your body is able to extract ALL the alkaloids from the leaf? Do you think maybe steeping the leaf in liquid for ~a day might extract more alkaloids out of the leaf than our bodies would if we simply ate the dry leaf....which in turn would mean more alkaloid for the same amount of kratom ingested? Does this sound likely?
I religiously use Bali strains, they seem the most euphoric to me. I do not like Maeng Da, and most other strains like Indo and Malay just feel like weak Bali to me. I read that switching up strains can help tolerance, is there another strain type that is similarly euphoric to Bali?


Thanks in advance for the answers! :)

King Hop Head
16-12-2011, 00:09
With high tolerance I find it best to use Poppy Pod Tea, a lot of the recreational aspect of Kratom disappear if you have a high Opioid tolerance, though it is good at attenuating withdrawal symptoms for a few hours.

I found Kratom use was best with one large dose once a week at weekends. In the week I would have Kava in the evening or a few beers.

ErgicMergic
16-12-2011, 01:38
I use 600mg Chelated Magnesium with 15-30mg DXM an hour before a burn, to keep my NMDA antagonism high, which keeps tolerance in check. Cimetidine, and any potentiator, would obviously raise tolerance, since it works by inhibiting liver enzymes, which reduces rate of elimination, which keeps more 7-HO and Mitragynine in your blood stream, which in turn boosts your tolerance.

Switching up strains definitely helps tolerance. Kratomers call it "stagnant strain syndrome," which is similar to the strain tolerance you get from cannabis. I've read it is best to never use the same leaf (Bali, Maeng Da, etc) more than twice a week. Using something new every day definitely helps IMO, if not by tolerance, then by conditioning (mixes up the subjective effects).

I prefer ingesting all the Kratom (with reverse toss n wash), to keep doses standardized. Extractions are never 100%; one tea might yield 80% alkaloids, the other 92%, there's no way to make sure with those.

Stay away from extracts: once you go extract, you never go back. Plus, extracts give you a boring (mentally dulling), but powerful, opiate high, not a complex Kratom high. The plain leaf Kratom high is so complete and natural feeling compared to opiates. And they're so expensive, you might as well use real opiates over extracts. Extracts make a joke of the Kratom scene, they really have no place being legal IMO. Some people spend way more on extracts than they do on an IV heroin habit.

Try out other leaves. With your preference, try: Borneo Red Vein, Red Riau, Red Vein Sumatra, Green Malaysian. These are all relaxing strains, compared to Thai/Maeng Da.

ErgicMergic
16-12-2011, 05:45
Feeling the "aroma" of my Kratom today, I just was thinking to myself how more codeine/hydrocodone/light oxycodone users should use Kratom. Saves money, it's legal, it lasts longer; it's really a miracle plant, next to Cannabis. <3

BuddingPharmacist
16-12-2011, 07:32
Ah good.

Someone dug up the Kratom thread.

I consider myself an expert on all things Kratom. I will thoroughly enjoy reading this thread.

While I am here, does anyone have any questions? I would be happy to answer anything Kratom related, and my knowledge on this particular plant is very deep indeed.

J.Wallace
16-12-2011, 07:43
I've been interested in trying Kratom for a few months now. I think I'm going to order some online in another 2 or 3 weeks. I hear it's a hit or miss, though. I'm not sure what kind to get either. I'm mostly looking for euphoric effects. I understand different strains cause different effects, so which would you recommend?

I'm mostly just looking to experience something relaxing and calming, something I can enjoy with a nice bowl or two of buddha.

BuddingPharmacist
16-12-2011, 07:56
I've been interested in trying Kratom for a few months now. I think I'm going to order some online in another 2 or 3 weeks. I hear it's a hit or miss, though. I'm not sure what kind to get either. I'm mostly looking for euphoric effects. I understand different strains cause different effects, so which would you recommend?

I'm mostly just looking to experience something relaxing and calming, something I can enjoy with a nice bowl or two of buddha.

Ah, you would be after the "Bali" strain. Other strains, like MaengDa or Thai, seem to be more energizing. Bali, on the other hand, is more relaxing and euphoric.

But there are even better types too.

I'll send you a PM and direct you further.

BuddingPharmacist
16-12-2011, 08:10
I know an inordinate amount of information about all things Kratom.

ASK ME ANYTHING.

BuddingPharmacist
16-12-2011, 08:16
^It will change your stool because of both the high fiber content and the opioids within. As for the stomach rumbling, I'd say it could be related, or it could be something else.

I would assume the stomach rumbling comes from the appetite stimulation which Kratom is famous for.

Unfortunately, eating anything will disable the Kratom's bioavailability.

Kratom is best taken on an empty stomach. Then pig out 4 hours later, after most of the effects are diminished. It will be as if you are having a feast!

The best eats I have ever had were on Kratom. Oh my goodness, I remember when I took a bunch of Kratom and then got all my favorite foods from the store and ate them. The awesomeness of it was overwhelming!

Kratom, in it's own way, is just as good at making food ridiculously amazing as pot is. At least in MY opinion.

BuddingPharmacist
16-12-2011, 08:42
For those of you who use kratom habitually, maybe even daily, I have some questions. I use kratom almost every day, ideally it would be every other day, but as of late it's been daily. I've been using it for about a year now. I notice that tolerance builds very slowly when I leave 2 or 3 days between uses, however when using daily, tolerance skyrockets. The obvious answer to many of my questions is "Take a break." I know that, I'm not dumb, and I do take breaks occasionally. :)


Do you have any tricks or methods to deal with tolerance? I'm not asking how to REDUCE tolerance, I'm asking if you have any methods to squeeze just a little more out of your kratom when high amounts of alkaloid are required. I can't simply just keep taking more kratom, for reasons listed below:
Do you notice kratom has a 'ceiling effect'? Meaning you can only take so much of it, until it simply just stops working, you just won't get any higher, as if you hit a 'ceiling'?
As I understand, as a person builds tolerance to most popular drugs like heroin, oxy, cocaine, etc., you simply have to take more and more and more to achieve a satisfactory high. If I use many days in a row, I will actually get to a point where I'll wake up in the morning, have a high dose of kratom, and literally not feel it at all. I will then re-dose again and again to the point where I have injested an ungodly amount of powdered leaf, and still not feel it at all. Do others notice this? (also known as a ceiling effect)
Does anyone notice that extracts/tinctures will allow you to dose higher and avoid the ceiling effect?
Does anyone notice that DXM helps manage kratom tolerance?
Does anyone think that antacids like cimetidine can help prevent tolerance, or worsen it?
When your tolerance to kratom is up, do you notice better results from toss 'n wash, mix 'n chug, or steeped-then-strained tea style? I usually mix 'n chug with orange juice, this gives me the fastest and most potent onset and the best chance of getting a satisfying high.
When you simply chug down all the powdered leaf material, do you think your body is able to extract ALL the alkaloids from the leaf? Do you think maybe steeping the leaf in liquid for ~a day might extract more alkaloids out of the leaf than our bodies would if we simply ate the dry leaf....which in turn would mean more alkaloid for the same amount of kratom ingested? Does this sound likely?
I religiously use Bali strains, they seem the most euphoric to me. I do not like Maeng Da, and most other strains like Indo and Malay just feel like weak Bali to me. I read that switching up strains can help tolerance, is there another strain type that is similarly euphoric to Bali?


Thanks in advance for the answers! :)

Question #1. Eat it on an empty stomach. Tums will potentiate it and make it last longer. DXM will help block tolerance buildup. Tagament and Grapefruit juice potentiate it quite nicely. So does Magnesium.
Question #2. Yup. It does. It also has a ceiling effect in the fact that one will throw up at high doses.
Question #3. Indeed I do! I take a particular extract called "Liquid Kratom". It comes in 1oz vials, and feels closer to morphine than anything else. Google "liquid kratom 1oz vials", if you are interested in procuring it. RIDICULOUSLY powerful.
Question #4. For sure! DXM helps immensely. No need to go crazy. 40mg a day is far more than enough.
Question #5. It prevents it, for me.
Question #6. Toss 'n wash is best, IMO. The less in your stomach the better.
Question #7. The body seems to be the most efficient, by far. If you wanted, you could try making tea and eating the leftovers too. Which would be disgusting. Lol.
Question #8. I hate the other strains too. Bali all the way. However, by FAR the most potent and by FAR the most euphoric was the "liquid kratom" I was talking about above.

BOOM. Answers are answered.

Have any others? I consider myself an expert in all things Kratom.

RobotRipping
16-12-2011, 14:35
I have a question; if I did a simmer for like 10 min using ground up kratom, what kind of yield should i expect? i've done this and filtered the sludge and used the resulting liquid (like brown water) to make coffee. It seemed to work at 12 grams but i'm not sure if a higher dose is needed because i'm not getting many alkaloids with just heating (i've read using the freezer helps?). I don't care how many grams I use as it's just sitting around, just wondering if i would be killing more alkaloids or releasing more?

JJ-180
16-12-2011, 15:22
I've been using kratom since monday to manage the chronic phase of my ODT withdrawal. By the evening,when the aches and shivers are coming back a bit 8-10 gr of bali leaf has really hit the spot! Is there an asian tradition of using kratom in substitution opiate therapy? It seems a bit of a magic plant to me!

Znegative
16-12-2011, 16:46
so I'm kind of interested in getting some kratom to help get off buprenorphine, or to at least help me skip days between dosages. I'm currently taking .5 mg 2x a day sublingually.
I want to use the kratom because I just can't deal with the anxiety and depression that I get when I attempt to skip a dose, I need something to keep me going. In my case, with my current tolerance, what would be the lowest amount of Kratom that could still help me with withdrawal? I know this all very's on person to person, but if I could just get an estimation it would be very helpful.

Also, If I did use kratom to stop taking buprenorphine, would my tolerance for buprenorphine actually go down, or is the kratom strong enough that it would basically just be like taking an equivalent dosage or more? It would fucking suck to think that I'm getting off of one drug and then come down with a worse habit.

any advice would be awesome, thanks.

Oxide
16-12-2011, 22:32
I have a question; if I did a simmer for like 10 min using ground up kratom, what kind of yield should i expect? i've done this and filtered the sludge and used the resulting liquid (like brown water) to make coffee. It seemed to work at 12 grams but i'm not sure if a higher dose is needed because i'm not getting many alkaloids with just heating (i've read using the freezer helps?). I don't care how many grams I use as it's just sitting around, just wondering if i would be killing more alkaloids or releasing more?

Use a liberal amount of lemon juice in your water, the acidity helps pull the goodies out of the leaf. If you're making tea, use fill-n-press (or any fill your own) tea bags. Screw filtering the sludge out afterwards, it's too messy and time consuming. Not to mention much more room for error. 3-6 grams (1-2 tsps) per teabag, 2 cups of water or so with enough lemon juice to cloud the water. Simmer for 20 minutes, stirring often. remove teabags and cool. drink.

jazz hands
16-12-2011, 22:39
I've been using kratom since monday to manage the chronic phase of my ODT withdrawal. By the evening,when the aches and shivers are coming back a bit 8-10 gr of bali leaf has really hit the spot! Is there an asian tradition of using kratom in substitution opiate therapy? It seems a bit of a magic plant to me!

Yeah, it's definitely used for this purpose. I think it was first discovered to have this use (by westerners) in the early 19th century.

ErgicMergic
17-12-2011, 05:12
kratom sucks

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjqe6ZeEA1qcd6mt.gif

Oh, and Kratom is awesome :D

ErgicMergic
17-12-2011, 05:13
^Self proclaimed Kratom expert is self proclaimed. Teach us your ways, oh Kratom guru :D

†€¢}{И¡¢λ£ €¢§†λ$¥
17-12-2011, 05:21
kratom sucksGreat post, thanks for sharing!



Oh, and Kratom is awesome :DI couldn't agree more.
I've been sampling this stuff for the past month, and so far I have nothing bad to say about it. Except maybe that I wasn't too impressed with the "8x" resin. Or at least the way it is being marketed. That shit is weak, plain and simple. At least the stuff I got was. Maybe there is a way to make it better, but I will steer clear of it from now on unless it's free.

ErgicMergic
17-12-2011, 05:58
^Stay away from extracts. Overpriced, and the high from a good extract is too much like real opiates not to be addictive. At least with plain leaf, you're self limited: you can't eat more than 10-12g of plain leaf without feeling like shit, so you can't chase the high like you can with opiates/extracts.

†€¢}{И¡¢λ£ €¢§†λ$¥
17-12-2011, 08:26
^Stay away from extracts. Overpriced, and the high from a good extract is too much like real opiates not to be addictive. At least with plain leaf, you're self limited: you can't eat more than 10-12g of plain leaf without feeling like shit, so you can't chase the high like you can with opiates/extracts.Good point.

Can someone give me advice on how much "Kratom 15x Capsules" it would take to equal the same dose of 5-6g of Maeng Da? <--I'm sure that stuff is just another marketing gimmick, but that's what I've been using the most of and had good results. The 15x is new to me.

RobotRipping
17-12-2011, 08:54
^it would depend on the strength of the 15x, it can vary. 5-6g of good md can give me a good buzz so you'd think half a gram of extract should do it but when i've done this i've either gotten sick (too much) or felt nothing.

†€¢}{И¡¢λ£ €¢§†λ$¥
17-12-2011, 08:57
10-4, thanks. I'll start with half a gram and see how it goes.

RobotRipping
17-12-2011, 11:47
Use a liberal amount of lemon juice in your water, the acidity helps pull the goodies out of the leaf. If you're making tea, use fill-n-press (or any fill your own) tea bags. Screw filtering the sludge out afterwards, it's too messy and time consuming. Not to mention much more room for error. 3-6 grams (1-2 tsps) per teabag, 2 cups of water or so with enough lemon juice to cloud the water. Simmer for 20 minutes, stirring often. remove teabags and cool. drink.

i understand your logic but is the lemon juice worth it? It tastes disgusting lol. I've brewed my kratom coffee thing a few times and it always tastes bitter but decent. I don't care about efficiency, just the overall taste and effects.

Oxide
17-12-2011, 18:25
The lemon juice is most certainly worth it IMO, if the taste is too much use less, you really only need to slightly cloud the water with it. Sweeten to taste with honey & sugar or light corn syrup and sugar to cut out the undesirable flavor of the lemon if need be.

MikeekiM
19-12-2011, 00:21
Hi folks, I'm new to the site but I wanted to share an experience report that I wrote about Kratom. The experience actually is from a couple of weeks ago and I have another one to post since then, but I don't want to double post so I will wait a bit to post that one.

Kratom 20x extract powder experience report.

I met someone in a park near my house, he told me about a friend of his, his friend has been a lifelong daily pot smoker, once or twice a week drinker and once a week partier with things like cocaine and RCs. The guy also takes Hydrocodone whenever he can get it. Usually twice a week he will be able to get and take 30mg of Hydrocodone, so he probably has a bit of a tolerance to opiates.


DETAILS:
Body weight & gender - Male, 5'10", 180lbs

Dose taken - 1/2gr - 1/2gr - 1gr - 2gr = 4 grams

Route of administration - Toss and wash - Toss and wash - Toss and wash - Tea

Setting: in what environment it was taken. - The comfort and safety of my home.

Duration of main effects - Varied, but approximately 2 hours.

Main effects - Relaxation and euphoria

Side effects - Mild bad taste in the back of the throat.

After effects - none

Rating of the experience - 4, out of 10

Addictive qualities / abuse potential - Educated guess says it could be very addictive if not used responsibly.

Any other valuable information - none


EXPERIENCE:


20X extract powder. The guy hasn't eaten in about 4 hours. He did have a bit of smoke about a half hour ago but it would be unusual for him to be able to say otherwise at any time during his typical day.

0:00- 50mg allergy test. Mixed with about 1oz of water and drank. Even that tiny bit had a bad taste, as he had read it would have but he said it wasn't horrible or anything. The taste has tinges of 'green tea' flavor. He thinks it might even taste good as a tea with sugar or honey.

0:20- Toss and washed a 1/2 gram. The 20X extract that he got was advertised as 1 gram per teaspoon, he measured out 1/2 teaspoon and weighed it, it was .7 gram, he removed the extra .2 gram and did exactly the 1/2 gram he was trying for. He decided on a 1/2 gram starter after reading about 70 reviews on the 20X extract. There were recorded doses from 1/2 gram at a time to 4 grams, almost all of the more than 2 gram doses resulted in sudden and repeated vomiting. The smaller doses mostly had good reviews, so he decided to start small and hope for the best.

0:50- Got that 'He thinks he feels something' thing going on but he thinks it's just anticipation.

1:30- He's still not feeling anything but he has to eat, he's starving. He's going to have a small Sloppy Joe, wait a half hour or so for his stomach to start processing the food and then re-dose. He was thinking of another 1/2 gram dose but if he still feels nothing he might just do a whole gram.

1:45- He finished eating, brewed a cup of coffee, relaxed for a half hour. He still dosen't feel anything and that includes no nausea so he tossed and washed a whole gram.

2:15- About exactly 2 hours after the first 1/2 gram and he's starting to feel something, it's very weak but there is definitely a feeling of 'relaxation'. He'll wait another 15 minutes to see if it gets stronger, and since he does feel something, he'll just toss a 1/2 gram instead of the full gram he was planning on.

2:45- Thought he might be feeling more so he waited a half hour instead of 15 minutes but the sense of 'feeling' something did not grow. Toss and washed a second 1/2 gram. If this does not work, he will call it a night and try again tomorrow with a full gram dose.

3:45- Nothing yet!

4:45- Still nothing, he must have taken too small doses. He's going to call it a night, get some sleep and he'll try a full gram tomorrow.

Next day, 13 hours later, no 'hangover' effects from yesterday.

0:00- Toss and wash 1 gram.

2:30- He's been feeling 'traces' of an altered state but just traces. Certainly nothing he would pay for, or think 'Boy I can't wait to get out of work so I can do some'. He said it's really not even strong enough to describe. There is however a taste in the back of his mouth that reminds him of the taste he would get when he was dropping blotter acid 20 years ago. He has 2 grams left, he will probably just wait until tomorrow afternoon and do both grams at once and see what happens.

Next day, 22 hours later. Well rested, empty stomach.

He decided to try a different method, he made the last two grams of his 20X extract into a tea. He brought two cups of water to a slow boil and poured in the two grams. Boiled it down for about 25 minutes until it was reduced to about a cup of tea. He stirred in a teaspoon of honey, as all the info he could find on the product said it tastes terrible, especially warm.

0:00- He drank 1/2 cup of the mixture. He thinks it's because he's using the 20X extract instead of the leaf, but it didn't taste bad at all.

0:30- He had read that it kicks in quicker when made into a tea. After the first 30 minutes he said he felt a little something kicking in but could tell it was like the other attempts and not going to go to far, so he chugged down the rest of the tea.

1:10- Actually he feels pretty good, not F'd up or anything but nice and relaxed with a hint of Hydrocodone like euphoria.

1:35- Still feeling pretty good but it's not getting stronger. He's starving so he's going to have a burger and see if that helps, hurts or gets him sick.

2:00- Yeah, eating just sobered him up, he can still feel it but eating definitely diminished the effects. That was the last of the Kratom but he thinks if he can get the technique and dosage right this could be quite nice. He said he will buy some Maeng da Kratom leaf next time, just to make sure he is getting the full spectrum of the alkaloids, and brew that into a strong tea. He'll review that when he gets it. BTW, he smoked a bowl after eating and discovered that the two substances work very well together!

Thanks for reading my review;
MikeekiM

Seattle_Stranger
19-12-2011, 00:38
Question #1. Eat it on an empty stomach. Tums will potentiate it and make it last longer. DXM will help block tolerance buildup. Tagament and Grapefruit juice potentiate it quite nicely. So does Magnesium.
Question #2. Yup. It does. It also has a ceiling effect in the fact that one will throw up at high doses.
Question #3. Indeed I do! I take a particular extract called "Liquid Kratom". It comes in 1oz vials, and feels closer to morphine than anything else. Google "liquid kratom 1oz vials", if you are interested in procuring it. RIDICULOUSLY powerful.
Question #4. For sure! DXM helps immensely. No need to go crazy. 40mg a day is far more than enough.
Question #5. It prevents it, for me.
Question #6. Toss 'n wash is best, IMO. The less in your stomach the better.
Question #7. The body seems to be the most efficient, by far. If you wanted, you could try making tea and eating the leftovers too. Which would be disgusting. Lol.
Question #8. I hate the other strains too. Bali all the way. However, by FAR the most potent and by FAR the most euphoric was the "liquid kratom" I was talking about above.

BOOM. Answers are answered.

Have any others? I consider myself an expert in all things Kratom.

Thank you for your answers. LOL I find it funny how you keep calling yourself a kratom expert. I bet you're high as balls on it right now, because when I'm that high, yeah, all I want to do is TALK TALK TALK TYPE TYPE TYPE TYPE I AM A DATABASE OF KRATOM INFORMATION PLEASE INSERT QUESTION HERE I WILL SPIT OUT PAGES OF INFO BUZZT CLICK! I'm not making fun of you, I'm actually saying I know how you feel. :)

I've been 'studying' kratom for seemingly forever now and I have racked up quite a knowledge base of information on it. Kratom expert? I don't know if I'd go around claiming to be one, however I do seem to have quite a solid understanding of the plant. It is QUITE amazing in the way it works. I have a little bottle of orange juice w/ 10g of Super green Bali shaken into it, and I'm about to chug this mf'er in a minute, and then I will become an UNSTOPPABLE CLEANING & KRATOM INFORMATION SPEWING MACHINE!!!! :D:D:D Nah, I'll prolly just get a little euphoric and stim'ed, chatty, call some family for the holidays, do some online shopping, run an errand, etc..

Here's a question for you Mr. Kratomexpertman: Do you notice little fibers of kratom leaf in your stool after frequent use? Do you think this is a sign of a digestive problem? I would think not seeing how corn does the same thing, and that's good for you...

BuddingPharmacist
19-12-2011, 01:09
I have a question; if I did a simmer for like 10 min using ground up kratom, what kind of yield should i expect? i've done this and filtered the sludge and used the resulting liquid (like brown water) to make coffee. It seemed to work at 12 grams but i'm not sure if a higher dose is needed because i'm not getting many alkaloids with just heating (i've read using the freezer helps?). I don't care how many grams I use as it's just sitting around, just wondering if i would be killing more alkaloids or releasing more?

Hmmm.

I'm not a big fan of making tea out of this stuff. In my opinion, it is a horrible waste of alkaloids.

You would be best off just eating finely powdered leaf. Making tea screws with everything.

BuddingPharmacist
19-12-2011, 01:11
I've been using kratom since monday to manage the chronic phase of my ODT withdrawal. By the evening,when the aches and shivers are coming back a bit 8-10 gr of bali leaf has really hit the spot! Is there an asian tradition of using kratom in substitution opiate therapy? It seems a bit of a magic plant to me!

There is, yes.

If you search about the history of Kratom, you will see that it has been used as an agent against opium for hundreds of years.

BuddingPharmacist
19-12-2011, 01:13
so I'm kind of interested in getting some kratom to help get off buprenorphine, or to at least help me skip days between dosages. I'm currently taking .5 mg 2x a day sublingually.
I want to use the kratom because I just can't deal with the anxiety and depression that I get when I attempt to skip a dose, I need something to keep me going. In my case, with my current tolerance, what would be the lowest amount of Kratom that could still help me with withdrawal? I know this all very's on person to person, but if I could just get an estimation it would be very helpful.

Also, If I did use kratom to stop taking buprenorphine, would my tolerance for buprenorphine actually go down, or is the kratom strong enough that it would basically just be like taking an equivalent dosage or more? It would fucking suck to think that I'm getting off of one drug and then come down with a worse habit.

any advice would be awesome, thanks.

Kratom withdrawal is peanuts compared to getting off other opiates. Sure, there will be minor discomfort, but no where near as bad as opiate withdrawal.

At your present dosage, the kratom may or may not affect you. At the very least, it would help with the withdrawals, but I would be surprised if you were to get high from the Kratom at this point.

You are looking at a dosage of 10-15g powdered leaf with your current dosage of bupenorphine, I would think. I know that is a lot, but it will probably be enough to get you out of withdrawal and help you feel ok for a while.

BuddingPharmacist
19-12-2011, 01:14
^Self proclaimed Kratom expert is self proclaimed. Teach us your ways, oh Kratom guru :D

Sure.

Just ask.

BuddingPharmacist
19-12-2011, 01:16
Great post, thanks for sharing!

I couldn't agree more.
I've been sampling this stuff for the past month, and so far I have nothing bad to say about it. Except maybe that I wasn't too impressed with the "8x" resin. Or at least the way it is being marketed. That shit is weak, plain and simple. At least the stuff I got was. Maybe there is a way to make it better, but I will steer clear of it from now on unless it's free.

Resin is often the worst, for sure. No product I have tried claiming to be "kratom resin" was worth a dime.

BuddingPharmacist
19-12-2011, 01:18
Thank you for your answers. LOL I find it funny how you keep calling yourself a kratom expert. I bet you're high as balls on it right now, because when I'm that high, yeah, all I want to do is TALK TALK TALK TYPE TYPE TYPE TYPE I AM A DATABASE OF KRATOM INFORMATION PLEASE INSERT QUESTION HERE I WILL SPIT OUT PAGES OF INFO BUZZT CLICK! I'm not making fun of you, I'm actually saying I know how you feel. :)

I've been 'studying' kratom for seemingly forever now and I have racked up quite a knowledge base of information on it. Kratom expert? I don't know if I'd go around claiming to be one, however I do seem to have quite a solid understanding of the plant. It is QUITE amazing in the way it works. I have a little bottle of orange juice w/ 10g of Super green Bali shaken into it, and I'm about to chug this mf'er in a minute, and then I will become an UNSTOPPABLE CLEANING & KRATOM INFORMATION SPEWING MACHINE!!!! :D:D:D Nah, I'll prolly just get a little euphoric and stim'ed, chatty, call some family for the holidays, do some online shopping, run an errand, etc..

Here's a question for you Mr. Kratomexpertman: Do you notice little fibers of kratom leaf in your stool after frequent use? Do you think this is a sign of a digestive problem? I would think not seeing how corn does the same thing, and that's good for you...

I do, yes.

I doubt very much it is a digestive issue. Humans aren't meant to break down fibers in plants, so they go right through.

I do believe, however, that the stomach effectively extracts most of the alkaloids of the plant out beforehand.