PDA

View Full Version : (opioids) The Kratom Thread



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 [15] 16 17 18 19 20 21

Wolfmans_BrothEr
07-11-2011, 23:39
I have something called "Kratom Zone" Mitragyna Speciosa 15:1 extract powder & its been sitting in my closet for 7 months, still have not tried Kratom yet. One of these days I will.............I just hope im not disappointed........I think that is one of the reasons why I havent tried it yet.

I googled it and multiple sources say it has a fairly long shelf life under the right conditions...meaning a cool, dry, dark place

iamnotsam
08-11-2011, 00:24
I've tried just about every extract on the market within the last 6 years, including 15x mitragynine extract which I find to be crap from any source, and have to say they're a waste of money and time. They do not even compete with a good micronized powder, specifically Maeng Da. The ONLY exception was the Maeng Da extract (a dark rust color) that I located from one vendor, but I won't mess with it anymore. I've tried other MD extracts, but they did nothing. This specific extract is very expensive, but very effective. I would say almost identical to some good quality pharmy products and it produces pretty severe nods. However, upon discontinuation, even with continued kratom powder use, I experienced a slight W/D that really f'd up my week. Now with that said, I did not toss it straight and only used it to potentiates other powders. It does work. Just my $0.02.

iamnotsam
08-11-2011, 00:47
This gives you an audio example, http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=kratom&submit=Submit

iamnotsam
08-11-2011, 01:08
So I am learning it doesn't matter if I hit reply to a specific post or not within this thread, it will just post my statements only. My apologies for any confusion.

I have a question for those with the Kratom know...why is it that the micronized powder is so potent and the ONLY form of Kratom that I feel any effects from? I've noted absolutely no happy feelings, or anything for that matter, if I consume Kratom in any of the following forms: tea (with and without plant matter; with and without lemon; freezing first and/or double boiling, a variation of the aforementioned, etc), chewing the plant matter (yes, the taste does not bother me), fine coffee grind or snuff grind of the whole plant matter, and/or capsules. The product is from the same vendor that I've used for over six years, so it isn't the quality that is of concern. I order the micronized powder and it's like holy fuck, I love you. However, when I tried to save some dollars and grind it myself using a snuff grinder and/or another vendors finely ground plant, it was like WTF did I waste my money on? Why is this? Same dose and I've even upped the quantity when it's not in micronized form. Still, nothing works. P.S. I always consume on a totally empty stomach b/c it's the only way I feel the effects with the powder form.

In addition, just as a precaution for the frequent Kratom connoisseurs, get regular blood work done. I was perfectly healthy prior to frequent use. Six months in and my potassium levels were very depleted, which was only found after I started having severe heart problems (palpitations, tachycardia, and erratic BP). I was found to be severely dehydrated with deficient potassium levels. Diet and water did not reverse the problems and I required supplementation. Just a heads-up.

Lazyscience
08-11-2011, 18:10
i ordered my first kratom today. i gotto say, im pretty apprehensive about the addiction potential, especially because i dont want to mess up my university course.

any advice to stop from getting addicted?

King Hop Head
08-11-2011, 22:56
i ordered my first kratom today. i gotto say, im pretty apprehensive about the addiction potential, especially because i dont want to mess up my university course.

any advice to stop from getting addicted?

To avois addiction avois using more than one a week.

Pegasus
09-11-2011, 06:55
^Hey, the reply button doesn't actually reply directly to the post; you have to quote or mention the post you're replying to for people to know what you're talking about. Sorry, I know it's confusing.

Pegasus
09-11-2011, 06:59
So I am learning it doesn't matter if I hit reply to a specific post or not within this thread, it will just post my statements only. My apologies for any confusion.

I have a question for those with the Kratom know...why is it that the micronized powder is so potent and the ONLY form of Kratom that I feel any effects from? I've noted absolutely no happy feelings, or anything for that matter, if I consume Kratom in any of the following forms: tea (with and without plant matter; with and without lemon; freezing first and/or double boiling, a variation of the aforementioned, etc), chewing the plant matter (yes, the taste does not bother me), fine coffee grind or snuff grind of the whole plant matter, and/or capsules. The product is from the same vendor that I've used for over six years, so it isn't the quality that is of concern. I order the micronized powder and it's like holy fuck, I love you. However, when I tried to save some dollars and grind it myself using a snuff grinder and/or another vendors finely ground plant, it was like WTF did I waste my money on? Why is this? Same dose and I've even upped the quantity when it's not in micronized form. Still, nothing works. P.S. I always consume on a totally empty stomach b/c it's the only way I feel the effects with the powder form.

In addition, just as a precaution for the frequent Kratom connoisseurs, get regular blood work done. I was perfectly healthy prior to frequent use. Six months in and my potassium levels were very depleted, which was only found after I started having severe heart problems (palpitations, tachycardia, and erratic BP). I was found to be severely dehydrated with deficient potassium levels. Diet and water did not reverse the problems and I required supplementation. Just a heads-up.

Thanks for the info on the blood tests. I can see problems like this potentially happening regularly.

As for the difference in micronized, my guess is that the strains are different between different grades/ in capsules/ etc. "Micronized" just means ground up finely. If you're swallowing the fine powder with an empty stomach, you could potentially be absorbing it a bit faster resulting in different effects, but I don't know to what degree this happens. I never had a problem getting good effects from capsules though...

HdoubleODeezy
09-11-2011, 07:12
^ IMO capsules are deff. the way to go.. i bought a kg of kratom once and bought 1000 capsules and a filler machine and went to work for a few hours capping almost all of it up and i still have some capsules to this day in a big empty pill bottle. Much easier to store as capsules i think, and deff much easier to take.

bliz62
09-11-2011, 17:52
I like the powder, but don't love having to take it...so I'm trying some capsules, and so far so good. Felt some good effects w/ plant matter too, just like the quick fix of pills so if the high stays the the same, that'll be my new preferred method. I had been mixing the powder (still am with what's left) with applesauce, it still was gross lol.
Not getting addicted...yeah don't do it everyday like I do, once or twice a week max, and make sure you stick to that. Once you're doing it every day, nothing to stop you from all day, right? Be careful!

Lazyscience
09-11-2011, 18:23
so today i got my first kratom 100 grams of 'super green indo. im not impressed at all. i started off with 5 grams which happened to be 1 teaspoon full. although i could feel a slight opiated feeling, it wasnt enough so i took another spoon and that wasnt enough either. now ive had like 10 spoonfulls and im definitely feeling it but its so mild. maybe im expecting too muh i dont know but somethings wrong. maybe its just crap kratom.

muskolo
09-11-2011, 19:47
so today i got my first kratom 100 grams of 'super green indo. im not impressed at all. i started off with 5 grams which happened to be 1 teaspoon full. although i could feel a slight opiated feeling, it wasnt enough so i took another spoon and that wasnt enough either. now ive had like 10 spoonfulls and im definitely feeling it but its so mild. maybe im expecting too muh i dont know but somethings wrong. maybe its just crap kratom.

Yeah I'd say you got a bad batch. I mean, I've been taking kratom a couple times a week for a few months and I only get a slight buzz. It's still good but nothing compared to pharms. Unfortunately, you see a lot of information out there that says it's just like oxy or vicodin and for me at least, it's really not at all. The buzz from kratom is an entirely different type even if it does operate on some of the same receptors and traditional opioids. No matter what though, you should of felt something from 5 grams unless you have a high tolerance from other opiates.

in128770
09-11-2011, 20:18
I decided to knock the Kratom on the head for a morning. BIG MISTAKE.

Basically, what happened was severe stomach cramps, (PAINFUL!), followed by nausea. I vomited three times, and this is the first time I've vomited from pain since the heroin days. I could not stomach any more Kratom tea, so I had 36 hours of these cramps. Then, after throwing up a lot of juice, I felt well enough to dose again. And the symptoms just faded away.

I'm in a lot of intermittant pain right now, and having to travel 6 miles a day to collect my Subutex is turning into a costly thing with £30 taxi daily. I do not feel fit enough to make the trip on the bus today, so it means another £30 taxi money. My intestines are in shards! Really tender. I keep getting this gurgling noise, and pain when I get that noise as liquid passes thru the system.

This might be related to my pre-existing stomach complaint, but I doubt it. The Subutex alone is strong enough to take care of that complaint, so I'm assuming its Kratom wd. Shit, I never thought it'd be sooo painful!

Damn, now in the past 12 hours I've drank roughly a cup to two cups every 2 hours. Just to take the pain away.

Its helping for sure. I am also severely constipated.

I wish I never dosed Kratom! Buyer beware...

Pretty new to Kratom, but not to Subutex. So, if I'm reading your post correctly, you were experiencing Kratom WD's as strong as your past heroin wd's, and you had Subutex in your system during this herendous Kratom wd experience???

Pegasus
09-11-2011, 20:31
^No, I'm pretty sure he took a large dose of kratom and was vomiting because of it. The kratom nausea is pretty intense if you take enough to get it.

bliz62
09-11-2011, 20:40
Hmmm not sure if it was a bad batch you got or not. I usually take 15 grams or so to feel something, and it's WAY more mild than a pharm; you may have a high tolerance too, if you use opiates regularly.

King Hop Head
09-11-2011, 21:00
High Kratom dose plus high dose of Phenibut to potentiate= projectile vomiting.

Personally I find putting capsules prolongs the onset, and is less effective.

iamnotsam
10-11-2011, 04:07
Thanks for the info on the blood tests. I can see problems like this potentially happening regularly.

As for the difference in micronized, my guess is that the strains are different between different grades/ in capsules/ etc. "Micronized" just means ground up finely. If you're swallowing the fine powder with an empty stomach, you could potentially be absorbing it a bit faster resulting in different effects, but I don't know to what degree this happens. I never had a problem getting good effects from capsules though...

By grades, do you mean strains? It's the exact same strain, from the exact same vendor, purchased at the same time. He offers the Maeng Da in crushed leaf matter and micronized powder. I typically mix the powder in some water and chug. I don't play or waste time trying to make it pleasant. It's like trying to find a way to make moonshine taste good, just not gonna happen. However, I wanted to save some bucks and so I bought crushed lead matter, at the same time I got some more powder (so same batch). I tried just mixing the plant matter with water, like I do with powder, and chugging. Nothing. Absolutely NADA and WD even started kicking in a bit when. So then I bought a snuff grinder and tried grinding the same leaf matter myself into a fine, but not micronized, powder. Prepared and chugged in the same manner and NOTHING again. However, I then chug the micronized powder and eureka, I had it. I'm wondering if there is an enzyme required to break down the plant material that maybe I am lacking and/or fucked up from chronic consumption? Or if in the process of grinding it into a micronized powder there is a change in the potency? I am honestly baffled, as this product is not bunk. The powder is the ONLY stuff in 6 years I've found, from numerous vendors, to actually work at low doses. There's one other vendor that sells the only extract that's ever been effective too, but I don't buy from him anymore b/c of a serious malfunction in customer service. Anyways, I have a shit ton of leaf product that I need to figure out how to get some use out of. Like a drawer full. It's annoying. Anyone have experimentation suggestions on how to get the leaf matter to be effective?

iamnotsam
10-11-2011, 04:16
so today i got my first kratom 100 grams of 'super green indo. im not impressed at all. i started off with 5 grams which happened to be 1 teaspoon full. although i could feel a slight opiated feeling, it wasnt enough so i took another spoon and that wasnt enough either. now ive had like 10 spoonfulls and im definitely feeling it but its so mild. maybe im expecting too muh i dont know but somethings wrong. maybe its just crap kratom.

I've had some crap Kratom. There are only two vendors I will purchase from and each for different products. Honestly, once you find the vendor that works for you, quality stops being a problem. I've noticed the type of grind greatly affects how much I need and the effects. I just posted about this. I have no idea what causes it, but I can only feel the Kratom if I consume it in a micronized powder form on an empty stomach. In fact, the guy I buy from I only buy his deveined Thai or Maeng Da and with both I only require 1.5 tsp (yes that's tsp.) to get a mild effect ad 2 tsp for a moderate. I've been a kratom connoisseur consistently for over 6 months too and off and on for 6 years. However, if I try any other form, even just a fine powder, it has nearly zero effect, unless I take super high doses and even then it's miniscule. Was the grind micronized? Believe it or not? Also, I haven't felt the effects of an Indo in over 4 years from one of my first vendors I tried. Recently, none have been potent enough for me to waste money buying more. Stick with Maeng Da. You can almost never go wrong with that strain. Super potent.


Pretty new to Kratom, but not to Subutex. So, if I'm reading your post correctly, you were experiencing Kratom WD's as strong as your past heroin wd's, and you had Subutex in your system during this herendous Kratom wd experience???

I can attest to kratom WD symptoms while still taking a script, not Subutex though. I thought my oxy script would stop the kratom WD's, but it didn't. Something I've picked up on over the years of reading about kratom is that people that use kratom to detox from scripts and then CT kratom later, STILL end up going through severe WD's very similar to their opioid pills. However, folks that never used kratom to discontinue a pill have minimal WD when they CT. Not that they are non-existent, but they are minimal and short lived. One thing I do know for sure, if someone uses kratom to discontinue a script (cannot claim a natural opiate, as I've read few stories about this and haven't personally experienced it) they should not CT the kratom, unless they like pain. It's best to taper slow and using only the amount daily necessary to keep WD's at bay. I also know firsthand that taking calcium, magnesium, and potassium supplements (minimum RDA value daily and then eat large quantities of potassium containing foods, b/c you cannot consume too much from a food source like you can from a supplement) during WD, that this will GREATLY reduce WD symptoms. I believe WD symptoms are magnified due to an electrolyte imbalance and dehydration that is very common in kratom consumers. The aforementioned supplement regimen has also been helpful combatting tolerance issues as a result of frequent kratom consumption too. I don't know why, but I know it's worked on two separate occasions. I can consume 1.5 TSP, not TBSP, per serving and receive benefits.

llamer
10-11-2011, 04:54
Anyone ever combine kratom with GBL? Like all opiates, I find kratom to be stimulating enough to keep me from getting to sleep, and I almost always take a light muscle relaxant (carisoprodol 400-600mg) and gabapentin to get some sleep. I've never combined GBL with anything (a little afraid of over-synergizing the depressant effects), but kratom to me seems relatively safe to do so. Anyone ever try this combo?

in128770
10-11-2011, 07:24
I've had some crap Kratom. There are only two vendors I will purchase from and each for different products. Honestly, once you find the vendor that works for you, quality stops being a problem. I've noticed the type of grind greatly affects how much I need and the effects. I just posted about this. I have no idea what causes it, but I can only feel the Kratom if I consume it in a micronized powder form on an empty stomach. In fact, the guy I buy from I only buy his deveined Thai or Maeng Da and with both I only require 1.5 tsp (yes that's tsp.) to get a mild effect ad 2 tsp for a moderate. I've been a kratom connoisseur consistently for over 6 months too and off and on for 6 years. However, if I try any other form, even just a fine powder, it has nearly zero effect, unless I take super high doses and even then it's miniscule. Was the grind micronized? Believe it or not? Also, I haven't felt the effects of an Indo in over 4 years from one of my first vendors I tried. Recently, none have been potent enough for me to waste money buying more. Stick with Maeng Da. You can almost never go wrong with that strain. Super potent.



I can attest to kratom WD symptoms while still taking a script, not Subutex though. I thought my oxy script would stop the kratom WD's, but it didn't. Something I've picked up on over the years of reading about kratom is that people that use kratom to detox from scripts and then CT kratom later, STILL end up going through severe WD's very similar to their opioid pills. However, folks that never used kratom to discontinue a pill have minimal WD when they CT. Not that they are non-existent, but they are minimal and short lived. One thing I do know for sure, if someone uses kratom to discontinue a script (cannot claim a natural opiate, as I've read few stories about this and haven't personally experienced it) they should not CT the kratom, unless they like pain. It's best to taper slow and using only the amount daily necessary to keep WD's at bay. I also know firsthand that taking calcium, magnesium, and potassium supplements (minimum RDA value daily and then eat large quantities of potassium containing foods, b/c you cannot consume too much from a food source like you can from a supplement) during WD, that this will GREATLY reduce WD symptoms. I believe WD symptoms are magnified due to an electrolyte imbalance and dehydration that is very common in kratom consumers. The aforementioned supplement regimen has also been helpful combatting tolerance issues as a result of frequent kratom consumption too. I don't know why, but I know it's worked on two separate occasions. I can consume 1.5 TSP, not TBSP, per serving and receive benefits.
Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. To clarify on electrolytes, for WD's or for potentiation, take the RDA of the ones you mentioned via supplements, and then eat foods rich in those electrolytes in addition to the dietary supplement?

So, for example, on those occasions where you took 1.5 tsp, did you take a CAL/MAG/POT supp, then eat/drink bananas, milk, etc. and achieved more of your desired results with less Kratom?

And lastly, do you think potentiators (Gfruit Juice, DXM, Cimetidine) for oxycodone and the like would also potentiate Kratom?

Pegasus
10-11-2011, 07:30
^I think the potentiators do work... I've tried WGFJuice beforehand and I found it to help.

KingBlueTwista
11-11-2011, 12:06
Hey guys, can I get some advice please?

When I first encountered kratom about 6-7 months ago the high was very warm, comfy, smooth and creative from beginning to end. I used it on average about once or twice a week for about 2 months to begin with, and took breaks every so often - my tolerance has never gone up by more than a few grams. However, within the last month whenever I take kratom I get mainly dysphoric effects! The first 1/1.5 hours are great, same as they used to be, but after that the high usually takes a turn for the worse. I overheat a lot, I can't concentrate, I feel irritated and just generally out of it (and not the good kind of out-of-it kratom can sometimes bequeath). The effects are no longer pro-social in nature either, which sucks as that was one of my favourite things about them (that and the ease with which it enabled me to enter the creative state of flow). It seems that the threshold at which some of the negative effects of what seems like an overdose appear has been lowered in me, except I don't experience typical opioid symptoms of large intake ie. itching, major constipation. As I said previously, my intake is practically the same! I've tried going lower, but it gets to the point where there are no longer any really noticable pleasant effects, at least nowhere near the kratom high I came to know and love.

So I have some questions.. has anyone else experienced this on kratom? A sudden loss of the magic not due to tolerance, even a turn towards a generally negative experience? Was there anything you could do to alleviate this bullshit? Also might adding a benzo to the mix and lowering my kratom intake solve this perplexing problem?

Pothedd
11-11-2011, 16:45
What kind of Kratom are you using? Have you changed strains or vendors recently?

Pegasus
11-11-2011, 17:48
I think lowering your dose could be beneficial. It's a plant full of other things besides the drug/drugs you're after... These certainly cause unwanted side effects. Lowering the dose certainly helped in my case.

Pothedd
11-11-2011, 18:34
Last time I took Kratom I followed it up with some Benadryl in an attempt to sleep peacefully.
Instead my heart started racing and it kept me awake. Felt like I was going to have a heart attack. I haven't touch Kratom since...

KingBlueTwista
11-11-2011, 20:11
I usually (or used to) use either green malay or green indo, I've always had the same vendor and the change in effects I described was experienced from exactly the same batch :( It seems as if the only explanation could be that my neurochemistry has suddenly been altered. I can't remember where I heard this but isn't the opiate system closely linked to the seretonergic system? If so that might explain a bit as I recently went a bit overboard on MDMA a few times and had a pretty intense affair with a psychedelics for about 2 months a while back.

I think I will experiment again with lowering the dose. Previously I was on about 8-9 grams, so I guess I'll try around 5 and see if that works. Thanks for the suggestion peg:)

Pothedd
11-11-2011, 20:34
Yea I liked Indo. Seemed to be more sedating.
Dosage is probably a good idea, but I would say to order 7-hydroxymitragynine direct. This is the major component of Kratom and the mechanism behind its opioid analgesic.

According to wiki:
"It has opioid agonistic activity. 'The potency... was 30- and 17-fold higher than that of mitragynine and morphine, respectively.'"
PM me and I'll direct you to a vendor...

dcraver877
11-11-2011, 20:35
Last time I took Kratom I followed it up with some Benadryl in an attempt to sleep peacefully.
Instead my heart started racing and it kept me awake. Felt like I was going to have a heart attack. I haven't touch Kratom since...

kratom is closely related to the coffee plant and it is a stimulant. You probably took a thai strain and were not used to kratom since it has reverse tolerance properties.

Pothedd
11-11-2011, 22:24
^That would explain it. It was like a hallucinogenic overdose of caffeine, swear to god. Terrifying...

I definitely say to just order the main alkaloid. I've yet to try it on its own, but I would wager it lacks the "full spectrum" of effects that may be causing your adverse reaction.
Then again, opioids have a tendency to cause dysphoria in susceptible individuals. It is a depressant.

Edit: This could DEFINITELY be caused by depleted serotonin levels. I wasn't medicated and suicidal until I did ecstasy pretty much every week, 3 days in a row at a time, for about a year straight.
Try 5-HTP to regain some of the lost neurotransmitters, as well as vitamins E and C to reduce oxidative stress. When you feel "normal(ish?)" try taking a normal(ish) dose of kratom again.

Edit 2: Check out this report. Sounds good to me. http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=62085

Pegasus
11-11-2011, 23:59
Kratom also induces quite a bit of anxiety. I find it to be up there with cannabis in terms of potential anxiety. If you mix the two, I imagine that you'll probably have a full-blown anxiety attack at some point even if you're not prone to them. Even without cannabis though, an anxiety attack can easily occur.

Seattle_Stranger
12-11-2011, 00:12
Kratom also induces quite a bit of anxiety. I find it to be up there with cannabis in terms of potential anxiety. If you mix the two, I imagine that you'll probably have a full-blown anxiety attack at some point even if you're not prone to them. Even without cannabis though, an anxiety attack can easily occur.

Interesting how you say this, I see it as the complete opposite, depending on the strain you use. I find a moderate dose of bali kratom, followed up by a toke of good chronic at the peak provides a buzz better than oxy or hydro IMO. Extremely euphoric, giddy, empathetic, and completely anxiety free. As a matter of fact, this is my go-to on days when I'm feeling especially anxious. Add some kava kava to the mix and I'll forget what anxiety is! All the while not being too inebriated to get things done. I've spent entire days at work on rather strong doses of all three, and am probably more productive in said state. Right now I'm enjoying the effects from 9g bali kratom from this morning, and I'm sipping on some kava as we speak. Anxiety is miles away... :)

However, thai strains are far more stimulating and less euphoric. Higher doses of thai maeng da certainly make me very edgy, nauseous and jittery.

Half the fun of kratom is trying all the different strains and seeing which one works best for you! Once you find that one strain that outshines the rest, and you find the perfect 'sweet-spot' dosage, kratom will rocketship to the top of your HOC (herbs of choice) list, without a doubt. There's no other legal herb out there that provides this much euphoria!

Kratom sort of has three types of highs that come with it. You either don't take enough and you get nothing, or you take too much and get awful effects, or you get the dose just right, and get a surprisingly pleasurable high. The problem is that the sweet spot is usually a pretty small window, so it's really easy to under or over shoot it, resulting in less than desirable effects. Kratom's effects do not directly increase with dosage, the effects actually change and go from good to bad in difference of as little as a gram.

Pegasus
12-11-2011, 00:28
^I agree with most of your post actually-- I think the effects can certainly be better than oxy/ hydro. I just feel that it is a bit more angsty too, possibly due to the other crap in the leaves. It's a feel kind of similar to caffeine stimulation, with the jitters, etc, along with stimulation.

Pothedd
12-11-2011, 00:53
I'm growing increasingly interested in purchasing some 7-HO-MIT. Methinks this would remove much of the negative effects associated with consumption of large amounts of plant matter.
Apparently alkaloids make up only 1% of the kratom plant. That would explain the extraordinary doses one has to choke down to produce substantial effect.

George_Jung
12-11-2011, 19:24
Going to order some Kratom either later today or tomorrow. Was thinking about starting off with 15g, I have a pretty high opiate tolerance.

Any suggestions?

Pegasus
12-11-2011, 20:43
^Yeah, if you're not experienced with kratom, don't start at 15g! Start at like 7g max. The nausea isn't the same as opiate nausea-- I had a high tolerance when I was taking all the time and more than 8g made me very ill. Kratom-induced nausea is pretty painful.

RJ5151
14-11-2011, 17:47
hey guys,

I'm still kind of new here but i must say i love this forum and the help it is providing, so to the Bluelight Crew, I send a huge thanks for what ya'll are doing in harm reduction.

Now on to Kratom....

I started using the bali kratom powder on saturday night, didn't get much saturday but sunday i dosed on an empty stomach and it was incredible, just like drinking two energy shots and popping a couple hydros. Then today i took a dose before going to jury duty and i didn't feel much but i was very warm and content. When I got home i dosed again and have a mild buzz now, but the thing i want to ask is how fast does tolerance usually build? I really want to feel like yesterday but so far have not. Also, I have noticed when i toke up it is a much headier high than before, not only when i have recently used kratom but every time i toke i notice this, has anyone else experienced this? And one more thing in your experience what are your favorite strains of kratom?

thanks, peace love and Tea for all...

Pegasus
14-11-2011, 18:03
^I found kratom tolerance to build pretty relatively slowly. I found that slight alterations in dose had more of an impact on the experience than anything (except stomach contents).

I'm not sure what you mean by a headier high?

My favorite strains of kratom are Bali and Maeng Da... Bali is a great all purpose leaf, fairly sedating, while Maeng Da is more of a specialty strain that is quite a bit more expensive but also very potent and very stimulating.

RJ5151
14-11-2011, 19:12
By headier I mean even though i still have the same ditch weed as i did before(and it has got to be an indica heavy strain, because usually it makes me stoned like i don't want to get off the couch.) Now when i smoke it it is almost like a strong sativa-like high... I.E. I get lost in thought and have much more energy while high.

Bali is all i have tried but i really enjoy it, and i read that a lot of people don't like the taste and that it gives them nausea, but I have been using the "toss and wash" method and i think it taste like green tea, I am thinking about putting a good bit in with my dipping tobacco, do you think this would give me the stimulant like effect?

ErgicMergic
14-11-2011, 21:57
To the experienced Kratomers: would you prefer Kratom, Tramadol, or Hydrocodone for pain? Kratom is a lot more forgiving than hydro/oxy for extended use, and the NRI effects help with pain. Tramadol's long duration, and SNRI help a lot with pain. Hydrocodone's opiate activity is "stronger" than Kratom/Tramadol... so which one do you prefer?

I can get decent pain relief from Bali, but it is gone within 4 hours, like hydrocodone. Tramadol's analgesia lasts all day. I've been using Kratom for 5 months now, mostly at tiny maintenance doses (0.5-1.5g). I take 3-4g of Bali or SGM when needed for pain.

Seattle_Stranger
15-11-2011, 00:20
To the experienced Kratomers: would you prefer Kratom, Tramadol, or Hydrocodone for pain? Kratom is a lot more forgiving than hydro/oxy for extended use, and the NRI effects help with pain. Tramadol's long duration, and SNRI help a lot with pain. Hydrocodone's opiate activity is "stronger" than Kratom/Tramadol... so which one do you prefer?

I can get decent pain relief from Bali, but it is gone within 4 hours, like hydrocodone. Tramadol's analgesia lasts all day. I've been using Kratom for 5 months now, mostly at tiny maintenance doses (0.5-1.5g). I take 3-4g of Bali or SGM when needed for pain.

Personally, if I had a reason to need to maintain pain, I'd grab the scripts of opiates from my doctor and just stock them away, and use kratom daily to manage the main. I would never want to use opiates daily. Kratom is far more forgiving for habitual use and kills pain surprisingly well. I also notice kratom tolerance to build much slower than opiates.


hey guys,

I'm still kind of new here but i must say i love this forum and the help it is providing, so to the Bluelight Crew, I send a huge thanks for what ya'll are doing in harm reduction.

Now on to Kratom....

I started using the bali kratom powder on saturday night, didn't get much saturday but sunday i dosed on an empty stomach and it was incredible, just like drinking two energy shots and popping a couple hydros. Then today i took a dose before going to jury duty and i didn't feel much but i was very warm and content. When I got home i dosed again and have a mild buzz now, but the thing i want to ask is how fast does tolerance usually build? I really want to feel like yesterday but so far have not. Also, I have noticed when i toke up it is a much headier high than before, not only when i have recently used kratom but every time i toke i notice this, has anyone else experienced this? And one more thing in your experience what are your favorite strains of kratom?

thanks, peace love and Tea for all...

Try this: Go to the store and buy an antacid called Tagamet (cimetidine). It's OTC and has no CNS effects of it's own, however it inhibits enzymes in your stomach that alter the way kratom (and other drugs) are absorbed. I find that when using 200-400mg of cimetidine before my kratom dose, not only is the effect much stronger, but also 'headier', in the sense of it's more euphoric to one's state of mind as opposed to giving a body high.

Also, another thing to try is mixing the kratom into orange juice. The powder won't dissolve into the water, it will simply take on the consistency of diluted mud, however if you mix it around and then down the juice while the plant matter is suspended in the juice, not only is it easier to get it all down but it absorbs faster and better. You should also try doing this on a relatively empty stomach, but then eat something soon after. Between this method, and using cimetidine, no other ROA gives me better, faster effects from kratom.

And yes kratom normally hits me within 15 minutes, plateauing around the 45 minute mark, with strong euphoric effects lasting about 2 hours and anxiety relief/stimulation lasting the remainder of the day.

iamnotsam
15-11-2011, 22:58
Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. To clarify on electrolytes, for WD's or for potentiation, take the RDA of the ones you mentioned via supplements, and then eat foods rich in those electrolytes in addition to the dietary supplement?

So, for example, on those occasions where you took 1.5 tsp, did you take a CAL/MAG/POT supp, then eat/drink bananas, milk, etc. and achieved more of your desired results with less Kratom?

And lastly, do you think potentiators (Gfruit Juice, DXM, Cimetidine) for oxycodone and the like would also potentiate Kratom?

Yes, I take the RDA and then eat foods rich in all 3. I eat a lot of avocados, as I don't care much for bananas. I also started taking Blackstrap Molasses, up to 3 tablespoons per day. It's really rich in minerals and is relatively inexpensive and a great sweetener. Now, twice I took the molasses about 1 hour after a kratom serving and I was hit like a train. It caused more of a sedative euphoria than my regularly energized experience. I personally do not like that, so I now space out my supplements by 2 hours. Again, could be a total coincidence, but I always stay at the same dose, method, and supplier, so it was the only factor that changed. I've also noticed that if I am overly dehydrated and deficient in potassium (confirmed through blood work), with continued use obviously, Kratom stops working for me as if I took it on a full stomach. If I supplement and consume roughly 90 ounces of water daily, my tolerance stays the same and it's enjoyable. If I slack off, everything goes to shit.



Try this: Go to the store and buy an antacid called Tagamet (cimetidine). It's OTC and has no CNS effects of it's own, however it inhibits enzymes in your stomach that alter the way kratom (and other drugs) are absorbed. I find that when using 200-400mg of cimetidine before my kratom dose, not only is the effect much stronger, but also 'headier', in the sense of it's more euphoric to one's state of mind as opposed to giving a body high.

I would caution against frequent use of Tagamet or other h2 blockers mixed with Kratom, as studies have shown h2 blockers can cause mineral deficiencies and kratom is a diuretic that causes mineral depletion. Mixed together you could seriously fuck up your electrolytes, if used long term. You'll definitely need to add in some supplementation and test your levels frequently. Calcium, magnesium, and/or potassium deficiencies can cause serious health problems, specifically cardiac problems. Kratom by itself appears to be relatively safe, but who knows the damage if mixed with stuff.

†€¢}{И¡¢λ£ €¢§†λ$¥
16-11-2011, 00:20
Not sure I understand how these super threads work but I searched this and didn't find anything about the following....

I am waiting on some Kratom as we speak and have never tried it. How would this stuff be to combat coming down off of amphetamines? Adderall specifically.

Mr.T
16-11-2011, 00:52
Hello following question is buggling my mind:


about kratom usage affecting serotonin release with recreational drugs especially MDMA.

It not about Combining the too rather the kratom decreasing the experiences of MDMA and if other users have experienced it or have some input on the topic.

Greetings Mr.T

Pothedd
16-11-2011, 06:49
My friend liked hydrocodone when he was on mdma. Idk about kratom...

ErgicMergic
16-11-2011, 08:47
Mr. T, from what I've read, and from what the moderators here have stated, Kratom is not serotenergic (serotonin), just adrenergic (adrenaline/norepinephrine). It contains yohimbine-like alkaloids, which are believed to play a role in the NRI effects of Kratom.

Pothedd
16-11-2011, 09:58
This might lead to an increase in stimulation and heart rate, which could be dangerous. I would bet it would be mild however, and the "yohimbine-like alkaloids" might decrease the vasoconstriction of stimulants, enabling one to get an erection.

Seattle_Stranger
16-11-2011, 22:06
I've had MDMA and kratom in close vicinity, no issues noted.


I would caution against frequent use of Tagamet or other h2 blockers mixed with Kratom, as studies have shown h2 blockers can cause mineral deficiencies and kratom is a diuretic that causes mineral depletion. Mixed together you could seriously fuck up your electrolytes, if used long term. You'll definitely need to add in some supplementation and test your levels frequently. Calcium, magnesium, and/or potassium deficiencies can cause serious health problems, specifically cardiac problems. Kratom by itself appears to be relatively safe, but who knows the damage if mixed with stuff.

Thank you for pointing this out. I've tried doing some research into long-term effects from the frequent use of cimetidine, and so far everything I've read points to it being rather safe for extend periods of use. There doesn't seem to be any documented cases of adverse effects from cimetidine use, and also there are quite a few studies I've read where folks undergo high-dose therapy with cimetidine for extended periods of time, with absolutely no adverse effects. I take all of this with a grain of salt, and still consider the possibility that I could be throwing something off by eating ~400-800mg of cimetidine a day. Personally, I'm actually prone to GI and acid-reflux type issues and have even been hospitalized with what the doctors were calling 'gastritis' (long before I began using cimetidine or kratom), so antacids are my friend and are a common tool in my arsenal regardless of kratom use or not. I should also point out that I have not experienced any kind of effect that makes me think that my extended use of cimetidine or kratom has resulted in anything negative. I actually have not had any GI-related issues at all since I began using them. My digestive system has been problem free for almost two years now! It will be interesting to see what would happen if (when) I completely stop use of cimetidine, because it's more or less been ingested almost daily for the past year or so.

I would like to switch over to using grapefruit juice solely as a potentiator or maybe some other herb. I don't like synthetic drugs even if they are just a harmless antacid. So far though, it doesn't seem to have hurt me.

Pegasus
16-11-2011, 22:24
^I would definitely switch to WGFJ over cimetidine... In two drugs similar in effect, I'd always pick the one from nature.

Seattle_Stranger
17-11-2011, 00:46
In two drugs similar in effect, I'd always pick the one from nature.

You took the words directly off my keyboard. I'm always all about that.

Only difference is I find cimetidine to actually be significantly more effective than GFJ. Also, one of them lowers the acidity in my stomach, the other raises it. Difficult choice when living with acid reflux.

Harrisment
17-11-2011, 00:54
The only thing kratom really ever induced for me was a gag reflex, but I'm glad to see it works for so many people.