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Glowing aaron
27-10-2010, 23:57
Im looking to try some kratom as id like to try some opiate effects but cant actually get any and too wussy to try them anyway.

Ive got a local head shop and there is a few options. Kratom leaf in 7g tubes
kratom x25 extract in 2g packs. Or kratom resin x20 in 2g. Edit they also do Kratom Gold wich is 35x and comes in 500mg caps in packs of 3.

Ive read that due to extractio process you lose some of the active chemichals of the leaf so the leaf is stronger is that right? The one problem i dont know what grade the leaf is as it gives no indication or dose. If its the standard grade how on earth am i going to get 20g of it into a cup? What type do you think is best to get the full effects. :)

Glowing aaron
28-10-2010, 20:16
okay i went and bought "Super strength kratom caps" Came in a pack of 6 will take four and see how it goes will report back in a few hours.

Glowing aaron
28-10-2010, 22:20
been about an hour since taking the caps, ended up taking all 6 and dont feel one jot different. Going to smoke a herb that i know will get me high :D May try kratom again just not in caps.

mister_grimpus
28-10-2010, 22:25
been about an hour since taking the caps, ended up taking all 6 and dont feel one jot different. Going to smoke a herb that i know will get me high :D May try kratom again just not in caps.

Encapsulated kratom will take a bit longer to kick in on an empty stomach because the capsules have to dissolve first. A better method is simply "toss and wash": put a small amount of liquid in your mouth, put in some kratom, then wash it down with liquid. You want to take kratom on an empty stomach for the effects to kick in faster and be stronger. You also want to be sure of what dose to take. With extracts, you will need much less material depending on your tolerance. For example, 2g of 15x kratom should be plenty enough, 3g being quite strong. 4g probably too much for most people at 15x.

Glowing aaron
28-10-2010, 22:28
Encapsulated kratom will take a bit longer to kick in on an empty stomach because the capsules have to dissolve first. A better method is simply "toss and wash": put a small amount of liquid in your mouth, put in some kratom, then wash it down with liquid. You want to take kratom on an empty stomach for the effects to kick in faster and be stronger. You also want to be sure of what dose to take. With extracts, you will need much less material depending on your tolerance. For example, 2g of 15x kratom should be plenty enough, 3g being quite strong. 4g probably too much for most people at 15x.

yeah i hadnt eaten for about 3 hours, i just think that the kratom in the caps wasnt strong enough for the quantity i had.

JJ-180
28-10-2010, 23:22
Kratom is a wonderful plant-respect it and it will respect you-But you need to get the doses right-if you're using 20x resin about 2-3 gr should do it, but the resin is a bit mongy and lacking in subtlety. Don't waste your time with stuff in gelatin caps-apart from the fact that the caps are made up of boiled down dead cows and pigs,it just doesn't seem to be very good quality Kratom in caps generally. My recommendation would be to get some Maeng Da powdered leaf-about 3-5 gr per hit- and some decent thai 15x extract , around 2 gr of that. Mix the extract in with the leaf, brew the lot up with some honey and lemon. Drink it. It will be a strong hit, to the point of actually gauching out and expect some nausea-but fuck me, is it ever worth it!

attempt4
29-10-2010, 01:57
I would recommend the Premium Leaf. As a rule of thumb, the Kratom in headshops is often stale, commercially-produced downright weak and useless.

Premium leaf has the full-alkaloidal content, whereas you are correct, extracts tend to be oxindole extracts of a specific alkaloid, namely 7-hydroxymitragynine, mixed in part with regular leaf.

You need the full range of alkaloids to get the best effect, and this is done by ingesting raw kratom leaves via the toss and wash. IF its superfine (which it should be hopefully) then, starting with an empty stomach (this is the most important, otherwise it simply wont work. Make sure you are totally empty, but have a banana (or ginger-based drink) or something to battle any potential nausea. You can safely eat about 1 to 1 1/2, more towards the 1 1/2 hrs after ingestion.

1) Measure your dose which should be anywhere from 5-15g (if its premium leaf). Now, what type you have will make a difference. Eg, Maeng Da Thai is strong, so a beginner should have about 6g to see how you find it. A Thai strain is more stimulating than Indo's and Bali's. A Premium Red Vein Thai should be about 6-8g as a starting dose, no more. Same goes for indo or bali. There are loads of types, from super green indo to premium bali to enhanced green malaysian (malaysians tend to be more stimulating). My dose varied between 10g to 20g, but for the past year was 10g...12.5g was my dose for a long time too.

2) Dump a teaspoon (I usually find its about 2-3g) of the powder on your tongue and take a swig of your drink. I use OJ as its thick and carries the powder well.

3)Dont swish or anything, just have it in a nice pile on your tongue and washed down quickly and smoothly with the liquid. Use a thicker liquid like OJ or a fruit juice but do not use a carbonated drink, EVER!

If it is crushed leaf, then you could grind it further and t'n'w or if there are no stems, then try t'n'w it.

You can also make a tea, steeping it in boiling hot water for 30-40mins straining, repeating, consuming (or further boiling down to a more manageable amount)

You can stir your dose into a yoghurt, but this weakens it, as do gelcaps.

You can bomb it in skins (place the bottom of a skin along the sticky part at the top of another, to create a 1-skin-length double skin which can hold alot more...i think i managed to fit 2.5g in there.)

You can also make a juice paste. THIS IS EASY if yu cant handle the t'n'w.

Place your dose in a glass and pour enough OJ (or whatever) in to just cover it, maybe couple tablespoons. Not too much. Stir in just enough so it makes a paste, akin to the texture of wallpaper paste, not too dry so its grainy, but not too wet that its runny. You will get the hang of it. Then you just fill up the glass with more OJ and give it a good stir for a minute. Chug.

Mixing your strains is essential, but i found that no more than 2 strains was best. I used to love mixing a relaxing Indo, such as Kali indo at 5g to 5g of RVT. In the morning, for work, it was great.

Any more questions, just ask (i know some great vendors but dont know whether i can give you a link?)

Glowing aaron
29-10-2010, 13:05
I would recommend the Premium Leaf. As a rule of thumb, the Kratom in headshops is often stale, commercially-produced downright weak and useless.

Premium leaf has the full-alkaloidal content, whereas you are correct, extracts tend to be oxindole extracts of a specific alkaloid, namely 7-hydroxymitragynine, mixed in part with regular leaf.

You need the full range of alkaloids to get the best effect, and this is done by ingesting raw kratom leaves via the toss and wash. IF its superfine (which it should be hopefully) then, starting with an empty stomach (this is the most important, otherwise it simply wont work. Make sure you are totally empty, but have a banana (or ginger-based drink) or something to battle any potential nausea. You can safely eat about 1 to 1 1/2, more towards the 1 1/2 hrs after ingestion.

1) Measure your dose which should be anywhere from 5-15g (if its premium leaf). Now, what type you have will make a difference. Eg, Maeng Da Thai is strong, so a beginner should have about 6g to see how you find it. A Thai strain is more stimulating than Indo's and Bali's. A Premium Red Vein Thai should be about 6-8g as a starting dose, no more. Same goes for indo or bali. There are loads of types, from super green indo to premium bali to enhanced green malaysian (malaysians tend to be more stimulating). My dose varied between 10g to 20g, but for the past year was 10g...12.5g was my dose for a long time too.

2) Dump a teaspoon (I usually find its about 2-3g) of the powder on your tongue and take a swig of your drink. I use OJ as its thick and carries the powder well.

3)Dont swish or anything, just have it in a nice pile on your tongue and washed down quickly and smoothly with the liquid. Use a thicker liquid like OJ or a fruit juice but do not use a carbonated drink, EVER!

If it is crushed leaf, then you could grind it further and t'n'w or if there are no stems, then try t'n'w it.

You can also make a tea, steeping it in boiling hot water for 30-40mins straining, repeating, consuming (or further boiling down to a more manageable amount)

You can stir your dose into a yoghurt, but this weakens it, as do gelcaps.

You can bomb it in skins (place the bottom of a skin along the sticky part at the top of another, to create a 1-skin-length double skin which can hold alot more...i think i managed to fit 2.5g in there.)

You can also make a juice paste. THIS IS EASY if yu cant handle the t'n'w.

Place your dose in a glass and pour enough OJ (or whatever) in to just cover it, maybe couple tablespoons. Not too much. Stir in just enough so it makes a paste, akin to the texture of wallpaper paste, not too dry so its grainy, but not too wet that its runny. You will get the hang of it. Then you just fill up the glass with more OJ and give it a good stir for a minute. Chug.

Mixing your strains is essential, but i found that no more than 2 strains was best. I used to love mixing a relaxing Indo, such as Kali indo at 5g to 5g of RVT. In the morning, for work, it was great.

Any more questions, just ask (i know some great vendors but dont know whether i can give you a link?)

thanks for that covered pretty much everything i need to know :) I think ill try the tnw.

Mr Sosa
29-10-2010, 14:16
isn't making a tea the most effective method?

got an ounce of premium leaf waiting to be used in a few hours

bpayne
29-10-2010, 21:08
yeah dude first time I ordered some Kratom it was some leaf in gel caps I had to take about 8-9 to even feel anything and it was weak, the next time I ordered straight bali leaf powder, now that stuff had a kick, it was a thousand times better than the stuff in the caps, take a TABLEspoon not a teaspoon, and eat it down with some drink, and do maybe another half a tablespoon this should be 8-9 grams. wait about an hour and you'll feel kinda speedy and content, it's not like taking 40 mg of hydro, but it's better than nothing, and the best part is it works awesomely for withdrawals~!!!

Pink1966Floyd
29-10-2010, 23:51
Got a bag containing 1oz or so of the leaf a while ago. Best thing i found to do with it was take a gram or so grind it up into a find powder and make a tea out of it. Couple of cups and i was feeling pretty good.

attempt4
30-10-2010, 17:20
Tea IS NOT the most effctive at all. Thats not to say it cant be effective though.

Ingesting the straight ground leaf is the most effective.

bpayne, i didnt say measure your dose by a teaspoon. he should get his dose (10g or whatever....8g for a noob) and shove it in a baggie, then just spoon it out w/ a t-spoon as the mouthfulls are smaller with less potential for a cloud of dust enveloping your throat. its easier to handle. You may find a tablespoon easy to handle, as do i, but ive had alot of experience with this plant and giving peopl it for the first time and ive had the least problems with people eithr doing the juice method (high is over quicker but the ingestion is a peice of piss) or t'n'w with teaspoons of their dose.

TO THE OP: let me know how you get on. Buy superfine ground leaf....if you can and find an online vendor. i know some great ones in america if thats where u are, and great ones in uk if thats where you are also.

dankstersauce
30-10-2010, 20:54
I've found plain leaf to provide a nice mellow pseudo-opiate buzz. IME the extracts don't seem as strong as they would be compared to taking the equivalent of plain leaf. Then again I might have just got a shitty extract.

mister_grimpus
30-10-2010, 21:31
isn't making a tea the most effective method?

got an ounce of premium leaf waiting to be used in a few hours

I actually find that the toss and wash method works best for me. A good tip for the toss and wash is to try to cup your tongue so you can put the kratom in it, and then keep your tongue cupped (make a little depression with your tongue so the kratom stays put in there) when you swallow it with juice. It goes down much smoother for me that way. I weigh out 2 or 3 grams at once on waxed paper or a paper notecard and then funnel it right into my tongue. I find it's a bad idea to try to swallow too much at once. I also usually sip a little bit of juice and cup it with my tongue before funneling the kratom into my mouth, then I swallow it with the rest of my orange juice or apple juice.

attempt4
30-10-2010, 23:09
I've found plain leaf to provide a nice mellow pseudo-opiate buzz. IME the extracts don't seem as strong as they would be compared to taking the equivalent of plain leaf. Then again I might have just got a shitty extract.

Generally, extracts are missing that je ne sais quoi.

The premium leaf is infinitely better. There was a bit of controversy around certain UEI (which was pretty good admittedly) types being cut with benzo's. I wouldn't trust some American vendors, as there was also a kratom extract once circulating that was tested and found to be cut with Mephedrone. Some nasty ruthless vendors out there. If memory serves, both the adulterated extracts were american-produced.

A good 6g RVT with 5g Super Kali Indo and 1g of UEI was very nice.

The times of year have an effect on the efficacy and potency of some types, especially Bali. i believe Autumn's batches of bali tend to be more potent than springtime harvested, but im not really lucid atm, so dont take that completely literally as i aint 100% sure, but about 80-90%.

There so many health benefits to kratom, anti-carcinogenic etc:

"Kratom contains alkaloids thought to have a beneficial effect on the immune system and be effective in lowering blood pressure. Kratom also contains epicatechin, which is a powerful antioxidant present in dark chocolate and closely related to the compounds which give green tea its health promoting properties.

Kratom can have benefits for some individuals, many have found it effective in treating depression. It can also be used to alleviate pain. Others have reported that taking kratom eliminates their hay fever. In fact, many people claim that kratom helps them with a number of different ailments and it appears to have clear medicinal properties." taken from trykratom.com

Search up on it. great plant :)

Glowing aaron
30-10-2010, 23:53
Generally, extracts are missing that je ne sais quoi.

The premium leaf is infinitely better. There was a bit of controversy around certain UEI (which was pretty good admittedly) types being cut with benzo's. I wouldn't trust some American vendors, as there was also a kratom extract once circulating that was tested and found to be cut with Mephedrone. Some nasty ruthless vendors out there. If memory serves, both the adulterated extracts were american-produced.

A good 6g RVT with 5g Super Kali Indo and 1g of UEI was very nice.

The times of year have an effect on the efficacy and potency of some types, especially Bali. i believe Autumn's batches of bali tend to be more potent than springtime harvested, but im not really lucid atm, so dont take that completely literally as i aint 100% sure, but about 80-90%.

There so many health benefits to kratom, anti-carcinogenic etc:

"Kratom contains alkaloids thought to have a beneficial effect on the immune system and be effective in lowering blood pressure. Kratom also contains epicatechin, which is a powerful antioxidant present in dark chocolate and closely related to the compounds which give green tea its health promoting properties.

Kratom can have benefits for some individuals, many have found it effective in treating depression. It can also be used to alleviate pain. Others have reported that taking kratom eliminates their hay fever. In fact, many people claim that kratom helps them with a number of different ailments and it appears to have clear medicinal properties." taken from trykratom.com

Search up on it. great plant :)

im in the UK thanks for all your help, cant message you about the music untill im a blue lighter?

doctordre
31-10-2010, 06:55
Don't bother with it if you're trying to get a real opiate high.

It's a WEAK opioid agonist. Even extractions of the active kratom alkaloid wouldn't do much.

Enjoy kratom as it is, because I've tried it and it doesn't get any better at higher concentrations.

attempt4
31-10-2010, 17:23
Kratom is a wonderful drug in its own right. Its a shame that it is compared to opiates because it is nothing like an opiate, really, in effect.

Give me a good bit of kratom over good heroin any day. Each to their own, of course. But thats the beauty of kratom..its got the ability to lower inhibitions/increase wellbeing like a good opiate, but with none of the mongy feelings you may get.

Its more of a stimulant than anything in my opinion. It makes me energetic, talkative, happy and buzzy. Withdrawals aint half as bad as opiates. Tolerance isnt as much of an issue unlike opiates, kratom can be used daily and have little effect on tolerance (provided its once a day).

But yeah, there is no need to go over the ceiling dose of say, 20g or so. Any more and you're wasting your time, but its different for everyone. Kratom hassuch a wide array of FX on folk. some love it, some find it useless.