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Bupe *New Suboxone film * official thread*

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Forgive me if I am asking something that has been addressed already... I have looked closely over the several suboxone threads and have not seen this addressed specifically, but there are many pages to sift through so its possible I have overlooked it:

How long does it take for these film strips to properly dissolve and absorb sublingually? I just started opiate replacement therapy two weeks ago and I am taking 4mg in the morning and 4mg in the evening. On several occasions I have had to swallow early due to an unplanned telephone call or whatever. On these occasions I have noticed I am finding myself a bit uncomfortable several hours later presumably because not enough of my dose was absorbed sublingually though it could simply be in my head (likely).

This medication has been very much of a miracle pill for me. My only grip is that it must be taken sublingually... I live a fast paced life and find it difficult to set aside appropriate time each day to dose. Is it possible for my doctor to increase my dosage and allow for me to simply swallow my dose (in pill form) after adjusting my dose for the lower bioavailability of oral dosing? I would like to bring this up during my next visit but wanted to get some opinions here first.

Thanks.
 
Its pretty ineffective orally so I doubt the doctor would prescribe more for you to just swallow. I don't think it would be very effective at all swallowed. I'm far from an expert though.

On that note
I'm surprised they don't come out with a suboxone patch, similar to a fent patch.
 
the film is supposed to dissolve quickly, 5 min maybe 10 max.....
full tab could be 20 min (some people even more)

i would set aside time every morning to take your sub, and not swallow..... i wake up at noon, take it in bed while i pass back out......
 
From the BA mega thread here in OD-

Buprenorphine highly protein bound 96%, sublingual bioavailability is approximately 30%, oral is 22%, 90-100% IM, elimination half-life is 12-44 hours

Before tracking this down I had it in my head that oral was around 20%... so to take it orally (assuming these numbers are correct) you'd just have to take 150% of your SL dose.

There is a 7-day patch that was approved for pain in lower doses than what is used for maintenance- information here.
 
Patch link asks you to register and log in.

edit
So it is feasible for "pedal" to get on a higher dose and swallow. I was thinking the sublingual BA would be 80%+. Sorry I was way off.
 
^That's strange; even when I click on that link it won't let me access, but if I go back to google search, I can... so here is the text from the article- (obviously it IS safe for work, just rather long)

NSFW:

From Medscape Medical News > Alerts, Approvals and Safety Changes > FDA Approvals

FDA Approves 7-Day Buprenorphine Pain Patch


Yael Waknine


July 8, 2010 — The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved a once-weekly buprenorphine transdermal system (Butrans; Purdue Pharma LP) for the management of moderate to severe chronic pain in patients requiring a continuous, around-the-clock opioid analgesic for an extended period. The patches will be available in 5, 10, and 20 μg/hour strengths.

Buprenorphine is a schedule III controlled substance with partial agonist activity at the μ-opioid receptor and competitive antagonist activity at the kappa opioid receptor. The patch represents a new formulation for the opioid, which previously was available as an intramuscular/intravenous injection (Buprenex; Reckitt Benkiser Pharmaceuticals, Inc) for the relief of moderate to severe pain.

"Healthcare professionals now have an important new option for appropriate adult patients suffering from moderate to severe chronic pain when an opioid may be needed to manage their pain," said Lynn R. Webster, MD, FACPM, FASAM, medical director of the Lifetree Clinical Research and Pain Clinic in Salt Lake City, Utah, in a company news release.

Buprenorphine patches should only be used in patients requiring continuous opioid therapy for an extended time; use is contraindicated in the management of acute or short-term pain, postoperative pain, mild pain, and intermittent pain.

Clinical Study Findings

FDA approval of the product was based on data from 2 randomized, double-blind, clinical studies of patients with moderate to severe chronic lower back pain who underwent an open-label dose-titration phase before randomization to a 12-week study period.

In the first study, 53% of 1024 opioid-naive patients achieved a tolerable and effective dose of 10 or 20 μg/hour buprenorphine — 23% discontinued use because of adverse events, 14% discontinued use because of lack of therapeutic effect, and 10% were dropped for various administrative reasons. The remaining 539 patients were randomly assigned to continued treatment or placebo for 12 weeks.

Results showed that the mean pain score during the last 24 hours at the end of the study (week 12/early termination) was significantly lower for patients on the buprenorphine patch relative to placebo, as evaluated on an 11-point, 0 to 10 numerical rating scale. Of 256 patients receiving buprenorphine, 9% discontinued use because of lack of efficacy, and 16% discontinued use because of adverse events (vs placebo, 13% and 7%, respectively).

In the second study, 57% of 1160 opioid-tolerant enrollees were able to titrate to, and tolerate, a 20 μg/hour buprenorphine patch during the open-label phase after taper of prior opioids; 12% of patients discontinued use because of adverse events, and 21% discontinued use because of lack of therapeutic effect. The remaining patients were randomly assigned to receive either continued treatment with the 20 μg/hour patch or a low, 5 μg/hour, dose.

Results showed that the 20 μg/hour buprenorphine patch yielded a significant decrease in mean pain score relative to the 5 μg/hour patch, and a higher proportion of those receiving 20 μg/hour buprenorphine achieved a 30% or greater reduction in pain score from baseline (49% vs 33%). During the treatment phase, 11% of patients receiving 20 μg/hour buprenorphine discontinued use because of lack of efficacy and 13% discontinued use because of adverse events (vs 5 μg/hour dose, 24% and 6%, respectively).

Two additional studies were conducted of the buprenorphine patch: one low back pain study failed to show efficacy, and an osteoarthritis study failed to show efficacy for both the patch and the active comparator.

The most commonly reported treatment-related adverse events (incidence ≥ 5%) included nausea, headache, application-site pruritus, dizziness, constipation, somnolence, vomiting, application-site erythema, dry mouth, and application-site rash. Rare cases of severe application-site reactions with signs of marked inflammation, including burn, discharge, and vesicles, have occurred within days to months of treatment initiation.

Administration of Drug

Buprenorphine patches should be applied on a rotating basis to sites on the outer arm, upper chest, upper back, or side of chest once every 7 days. Because of the risk for QTc interval prolongation, the dose should not exceed a single 20 μg/hour patch. Patch exposure to direct heat sources should be avoided because temperature-dependent increases in buprenorphine exposure can lead to overdose and death.

For opioid-naive patients and those with mild to moderate hepatic impairment, buprenorphine therapy should be initiated with a 5 μg/hour patch.

When converting opioid-tolerant patients to buprenorphine patches, current around-the-clock therapy should be tapered for up to 7 days to no more than 30 mg oral morphine or equivalent daily. Patients originally requiring less than 30 mg oral morphine equivalents daily should start buprenorphine therapy with a 5 μg/hour patch; those requiring between 30 and 80 mg oral morphine equivalents daily should start with a 10 μg/hour patch.

Up-titration may be instituted at a minimum interval of 72 hours; the 20 μg/hour patch may not provide adequate analgesia for patients requiring more than 80 mg/day oral morphine equivalents.

Warnings/Precautions and Adverse Events

As cited in the black-box safety labeling warning for the product, buprenorphine patches are linked to a risk for misuse, abuse, and diversion, particularly in patients with a history of substance abuse or mental illness. As a consequence, the company and FDA have developed a risk evaluation and mitigation strategy that includes a medication guide, elements to ensure safe use (eg, clinician training), and a timetable for submitting required assessments.

Because respiratory depression is the chief hazard of buprenorphine and other opioids, extreme caution is advised when treating patients with significant chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or cor pulmonale; other risks for substantially decreased respiratory reserve include asthma, severe obesity, sleep apnea, myxedema, clinically significant kyphoscoliosis, central nervous system depression, hypoxia, hypercapnia, and preexisting respiratory depression. Treatment is contraindicated in those with significant respiratory depression and severe bronchial asthma.

Additive effects on central nervous system depression should be expected with coadministration of alcohol, other opioids, benzodiazepines, skeletal muscle relaxants, or illicit drugs. Buprenorphine should not be used within 2 weeks of monoamine oxidase inhibitors.

Because of the potential for QTc interval prolongation, buprenorphine should not be used in patients with long QT syndrome or a family history thereof and those taking class 1A or class 3 antiarrhythmic medications.

In patients with head injury, buprenorphine may worsen increased intracranial pressure and obscure its signs, such as level of consciousness or miosis.

Treatment with buprenorphine can cause severe hypotension and should be approached with caution in patients at increased risk and those in circulatory shock.

Buprenorphine may cause spasm of the sphincter of Oddi and should be used with caution in patients with biliary tract disease, including acute pancreatitis. Postoperative patients should be monitored for decreased bowel motility.

Sublingual tablets containing 2 mg and 8 mg buprenorphine alone (Subutex; Reckitt Benkiser Pharmaceuticals, Inc) and 0.5 mg and 2 mg naloxone, respectively (Suboxone; Reckitt Benkiser), previously were approved for the treatment of opioid dependence.


Theoretically, I don't see why swallowing wouldn't work although I'm not sure if it affects the duration of effects or anything.
 
I really wish I could get on suboxone. I'm sick of taking oxys, but I'm still in pain. At least the sub would take the edge off my pain and hopefully kill my cravings. So expensive where I am though. I just can't afford it. I was talking to the regular doc and told him I could afford to go see the surgeon or the sub doctor (once). He recommended I see the surgeon since my back is still fucked. The surgeon gave me a taper plan and a couple scripts at least. I'm already messing up my taper schedule, already 10 pills off in just 4 days. Grrrrr.
G'nite all.
 
These new films are all over Da Bluff in Atlanta, a mobile medic team passed many of them out and they are all over the place and being sold for cheap
 
Alright, my mad scientist balls came back to me today so this morning I IV'ed ~2mgs this morning. I didn't explain that the "feeling" that was so intense was a buzz, a rush if you will. Just very negative feeling,

Actually Captain came close, it really was reminiscent to how I felt when I first discovered I accidentally ingested almost 100mgs of 2-CB (My supplier was drunk and mistook them for pure diazepam capsules).

Either way, it's much more likely that this was PW intensified by the IV RoA than something caused by iving 4 mgs rather than 2. Still was quite the scare..
 
Alright, my mad scientist balls came back to me today so this morning I IV'ed ~2mgs this morning. I didn't explain that the "feeling" that was so intense was a buzz, a rush if you will. Just very negative feeling,

...

Either way, it's much more likely that this was PW intensified by the IV RoA than something caused by iving 4 mgs rather than 2. Still was quite the scare..

So did you have a better experience this time? Also, don't be too quick to underestimate the difference between 4 & 2 mgs, especially in regards to their effects intravenously considering the ~100% BA. Myself, and many others on this board will recommend that if you plan on IV'ing Bupe, that you not exceed a 2mg dose. With this drug, less is more, and you're seemingly more likely to experience pleasurable effects from lower doses, IV or otherwise, as the less Bupe there is to bind to your receptors the more room for the full agonist Norbupe to find enough space to do it's thing.
 
This is getting annoying

1. If you have an extremely bad experience that only lasts an hour or less. This means you got lucky and if you would have taken it any sooner the PWs would have been 10x worse.

2. If you think its impossible to inject it safely. FINE. Dont do it. But if you do any research you will find that as long as you know what your doing, you can economize your dose and end up getting the most out it.

Nobody has all the answers but after using it for 3+ years i do have a lot less questions.

Thanks

So did you have a better experience this time? Also, don't be too quick to underestimate the difference between 4 & 2 mgs, especially in regards to their effects intravenously considering the ~100% BA. Myself, and many others on this board will recommend that if you plan on IV'ing Bupe, that you not exceed a 2mg dose. With this drug, less is more, and you're seemingly more likely to experience pleasurable effects from lower doses, IV or otherwise, as the less Bupe there is to bind to your receptors the more room for the full agonist Norbupe to find enough space to do it's thing.

This is true....
 
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1. If you have an extremely bad experience that only lasts an hour or less. This means you got lucky and if you would have taken it any sooner the PWs would have been 10x worse.

2. If you think its impossible to inject it safely. FINE. Dont do it. But if you do any research you will find that as long as you know what your doing, you can economize your dose and end up getting the most out it.

I definitely agree with what your points are, though if you are going to inject this, it would be better to use micron filters in order to be as safe as possible.

Also, when you want to post twice in a row in a thread, please edit your post instead of double posting. Thank you! :)
 
For the sake of experimentation, I just dissolved an entire 8mg strip in ~1ml of water, and placed it in a small petri-esque dish, just to see if, after evaporation, I am left with any sort of salvageable/scrape-able powder fit for intanasal use. I realize the 8mg is a rather microscopic dosage to be working with, and this will most likely be a wash, but if I happen across any interesting findings, I'll be sure to report back on them.
 
^ cool, will be interesting to see what you get for results.. if i was you i would have filtered it through a cotton first and then let the filtered liquid evaporate so you get rid of most of the binders/gelatin or whatever it is made out of. You would probably get a powder-ish type substance that way.. i think this way you might just get a ball of goo. Who knows.
 
For the sake of experimentation, I just dissolved an entire 8mg strip in ~1ml of water, and placed it in a small petri-esque dish, just to see if, after evaporation, I am left with any sort of salvageable/scrape-able powder fit for intanasal use. I realize the 8mg is a rather microscopic dosage to be working with, and this will most likely be a wash, but if I happen across any interesting findings, I'll be sure to report back on them.

How is 8mgs microscopic?

If you mean you are hoping whats left will only be the 8mgs of sub, then just to let you know everything that was in the strip before hand will still be there when it evaporates unless you perform some sort of extraction.

Also i like your name, its fitting. I sure as hell know suboxone owned me.
 
What I meant is that 8mg of powder would be very difficult to see/work with the naked eye, sorry for the poor wording, & I realize that the inactives will still be present after evap, but I'm hoping this will add more volume to the final product. Thus, I will end with a powder, which will not by any means be pure Bupe, but will perhaps be more manageable for insufflation. I'm not trying to do anything ground breaking, just see if there's potentially any way to take the strips up the nose, without mixing up a nasal spray. I'll be the first to admit that this probably won't work effectively, I did it more so out of curiosity & boredom, since I know a lot of users are accustomed to intranasal sub use, and a lot of them are upset they can no longer do this with the film. Personally, I've snorted sub on a few occasions when I could still get off on them recreationaly, but since being on BMT, I never use this method anyway. So this is more for the benefit (or lack thereof) of others, if I'm not dosing SL, it's IV for me, or the occasional plug, not that these ROA's are any safer, but it's just my prerogative. Further more, I'm glad you like the name :)

EDIT: FYI, dissolving & evaporating these strips does not yield a powder, but yet another gummy film-like substance, as I expected the only suitable method for insufflating the film seems to be formulating a nasal spray.
 
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2xpost was accident

I definitely agree with what your points are, though if you are going to inject this, it would be better to use micron filters in order to be as safe as possible.

Also, when you want to post twice in a row in a thread, please edit your post instead of double posting. Thank you! :)

My computer was lagging, and i clicked it twice.

But yea the micron filter is ideal, defiantly. But for those who choose not to use it for one reason or another. I do recommend using a syringe(no needle) to pull it through at least 2 fairly large cottons before loading the rig(syringe w/needle). It may take 2 min. longer but even a dope fiend can wait that long if it decreases the chances of infection greatly
 
I second Specterchild completely on the cotton stuffed syringe. Personally, I use three, & as I've mentioned this works wonders in the way of further clearing up the solution for injection. This works much better than drawing up through a cotton alone, albeit obviously not nearly as efficiently as a micron, but a good option in a pinch.
 
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