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satricion
17-09-2010, 06:09
Hi all,

I know this is a topic that has been done to death and there's a great archived thread about nitrous safety, but I have a question that isn't covered in that and I'd like some Australia-specific experiences.

Basically, has anyone experienced any differences in the different brands of cream bulbs available in Australia? ISI is the only one I have used. It seems to be the most common brand and has been fine. But there are other brands that are cheaper. They all say they contain 8g of nitrous, but has anyone had any experiences which might indicate that these other brands might have more dangerous additives which could cause problems when inhaling them? These other brands include Whip-It and Mosa.

Has anyone tried these other brands, and have any relevant experience?

PsiloSubNaut
17-09-2010, 06:27
I do remember seeing a thread on this somewhere on BL once before. I will try to find it and post a link.

From my experience I have had trouble with headaches and excess residue from other brands. ISI brand seems to be the best for huffing. If you do decide to use other brands try taping a piece of coffee filter over the mouth piece to catch any residue that would otherwise end up in the lungs. I even use a filter when using ISI brand and no longer cough the day after a good nang session.

Other brands can be obtained for much cheaper but it may be worth sticking to ISI brand. I do know that sparkwhip are made in the ISI factory so i doubt they'd be any different. You never know though.

drug_mentor
17-09-2010, 10:59
I have only used ISI and Sparkwhip (made by ISI I am pretty sure) brands of nangs. I seem to recall reading ages ago (I think Splatt posted it, not sure) that there were some really cheap and low quality brands that had a lot more gunk and shit in them. Clover is a brand name that springs to mind.

Apparently these lower quality ones have a different appearance than ISI bulbs do, but I cannot recall for certain. If you hit many nangs you do start to notice this gunky shit in your cracker that couldn't be healthy, if there is more of that shite in cheaper brands they are well worth avoiding imho.

It may be a good idea to put a piece of cloth or fabric of some kind over the opening you attach the balloon to, as this could potentially filter out some of that grease shite. I have never bothered myself (stupidly!) so cannot say for sure it will have an impact.

Verybuffed
17-09-2010, 11:04
Clover bulbs are green, Mosa and bestwhip are chrome, ISI and sparkwhip are steel grey.

I found the 16g bulbs to be the dirtiest by far.

It would be good to get some pics of the different kinds up here for HR purposes.

taita
17-09-2010, 11:05
I also remember this being covered in an old thread.. There were brands that were a little better for you , im not sure of the names now, but ISI was the one talked about for being kind to the body...ahh nangs ;)

P.s Always filter :) or have a good dentist !

headdah
17-09-2010, 11:26
i have bought some cheap china brands beofre, the prices were like 1/3 the price of isi. but the quality was also about 1/3. although it says its 8grams as well, but sometimes u load a tripple in and u still can have it in one breathe (which is usually 1 bulb) for me. yeah. and headaches too.

Stick with ISI and u'll be right

sonic_reality
18-09-2010, 06:19
I have found Whip-It to be the kindest and nicest on the body. Apparantly they are made from medical grade nitrous oxide, whereas the others(including ISI) are made from food grade nitrous oxide. I am sure there isn't all that much difference between medical grade and high quality(such as ISI) food grade nitrous, but I did notice that the Whip-Its were alot better than any other nangs I have used. I am a pretty big nang whore, i recently went through two cartons(about 70 boxes all up) in a week, one being Whip-It and the other being ISI. Comparing the two directly one after the other, the Whip-It's proved to be much nicer, and gave me a better high. I still found that after having heaps of ISI, I still got the headaches. This wasn't the case with the Whip-It. It may have all been in my head, after knowing that they were medical grade I could have made myself believe they were better... but either way, I still found them to be alot nicer on my body and on my throat and lungs! Hehe plus the bulbs are blue, so they look cool too!! Altho the only place I have found them is online, never seen them in the shops.


http://finewhip.cart.net.au/include/classes/external/phpThumb/phpThumb.php?src=%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2F02002625_2 796651.jpg&w=250&h=0&f=jpg&q=80

Description: As stated on the box.
"nitrous oxide used in our whip-it brand chargers are of the highest quality medical grade"

This means there are no impurities you may find in food grade cream chargers, which results in a cleaner, fresher taste!

You can relive the whipped cream taste you enjoyed as a kid!

Fresh, wholesome, real whipped cream, minus all the chemicals and artificial flavorings — that’s what the Whip-it! brand cream whipper is all about.

Whip-it is the ultimate in quality and design, reflecting over 60 years of manufacturing expertise.

Whip-it chargers meet all Pharmacopoeia Eur. lll and Vll and Pharmacopoeia HU requirements, ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certified Nd and manufactured according to the DIN 32615 standard.


Having said that, when Whip-It is not available, I would always go for ISI. They are great too, altho after Whip-Its, they too seem inferior. ISI is alot less likely to give me those nasty headaches, the dirty feeling and the sore throat the next day that all other brands seem to give me. I stay well away from Best Whip these days, those things make me feel very unwell after a few boxes!

puckboy
18-09-2010, 08:22
I have only and always use the ISI 8g cartridges, only ones available to me.

How or where would one go in order to have a whipped cream dispenser (nang machine) repaired and maybe fully cleaned?

aussiejames
19-09-2010, 08:11
Wouldn't it be cheaper to go to a suitable outlet and get a size D or C gas bottle of N2O for your nanging ppleasure rather than buying whipped cream ones from the supermarket or where ever?

PsiloSubNaut
19-09-2010, 08:25
Wouldn't it be cheaper to go to a suitable outlet and get a size D or C gas bottle of N2O for your nanging ppleasure rather than buying whipped cream ones from the supermarket or where ever?

It is only possible for medical professionals to get tanks of medical grade nitrous oxide from gas suppliers. Analytical grade is also available to certain people.

I'm not sure of the controls on industrial grade N2O, but you do not want to be breathing that in due to the impurities.

Every now and then, bottles of medical grade N2O will find their way onto the black market, but it's not as simple as just going to a gas supplier and asking for a bottle.

For this reason, people will continue to buy large amounts of cream chargers to get their nang fix.

headdah
19-09-2010, 10:00
i have already looked into this. n20 is now a controled gas. so u need license/rgistration etc. before BOC will fill up ur size D E what ever size tank.

bobbydarren
19-09-2010, 11:09
you can scrub the car grade nitrous oxide very easily. You'd be able to google the process. you bubble the gas through 3 chambers, first sodium hyroxide, 2nd ferrous sulphate, 3rd is optional for drying the gas, something like calcium chloride flakes.

When I saw a person that was unknown to me try this he was using aerating blocks used in fish tanks in the 2 bottles of liquid. Don't recall how well that stood up to the caustic soda solution.

forgot to say: you're scrubing the denaturant called sulphur dioxide.

puckboy
19-09-2010, 13:48
8g ISI cartridges are considered 'food grade', still get the black oil residue build-up inside the dispenser from these though.

Related reading - http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=485417&highlight=whipped+cream+dispenser

baysieguy1
21-09-2010, 05:49
Wouldn't it be cheaper to go to a suitable outlet and get a size D or C gas bottle of N2O for your nanging ppleasure rather than buying whipped cream ones from the supermarket or where ever?

I saw this once, it was a messy campsite =D

PsiloSubNaut
21-09-2010, 05:55
^Sounds all too much like one of my doof camps baysie %)

The trick is to get the bottle on the dance floor so people actually leave the camp site ;)

Mind_Site
21-09-2010, 12:43
I had my first N20 experience just recently in Melbourne... Thanks L3niad %)

So I've just recently made my own cracker and a few weeks ago myself and four n2o virgins when through two packs (20 canisters) of the 8g "BestWhip" cartridges, they're chrome and packaging is white/red with a picture of a dollop of cream.

This was in the space of about 2 hours and no visible or touchable resin/oil/contaminant was left in my cracker (made of brass plumbing fittings) But i just read the Erowid "Nitrous Contaminate Warnings" page as linked from the Big & Dandy Nitrous Thread and they show a picture of black residue on a finger run through the whipped cream maker after only 12 iSi canisters.

So far so good with the BestWhip Brand... Well see how it goes in terms of residue after this weekend...

EDIT: None of the users complained of headaches either, but I'm uncertain 4-5 each constitutes as enough to cause headaches...

PsiloSubNaut
21-09-2010, 13:13
Headaches usually occur after several boxes per person and I rarely see much residue in my bulby before it's had several boxes put through it.

All brands have residue, some are worse than others.

Now that you have tried nangs, chances are, you will down a sleeve or more in a night some time in future ;)

Use the best brands and always filter

satricion
21-09-2010, 13:13
you can scrub the car grade nitrous oxide very easily. You'd be able to google the process. you bubble the gas through 3 chambers, first sodium hyroxide, 2nd ferrous sulphate, 3rd is optional for drying the gas, something like calcium chloride flakes.

When I saw a person that was unknown to me try this he was using aerating blocks used in fish tanks in the 2 bottles of liquid. Don't recall how well that stood up to the caustic soda solution.

forgot to say: you're scrubing the denaturant called sulphur dioxide.

This sounds like a big and complicated effort. And dangerous given the consequences of fucking it up while sober or out of it on nangs. I think it's better just to do bulbs.

Mind_Site
21-09-2010, 13:33
Headaches usually occur after several boxes per person and I rarely see much residue in my bulby before it's had several boxes put through it.

All brands have residue, some are worse than others.

Now that you have tried nangs, chances are, you will down a sleeve or more in a night some time in future ;)

Use the best brands and always filter

Ahh appears as though I'm more of newbie than I thought hehe... I'll learn in good time about residue and headaches I'm sure :) Thanks Psilo!

Surely someone else has noticed the vapor that is exhaled after inhaling a n2o filled balloon? I first noticed this on a friend, then when concentrated hard I could see myself exhale it. Is this bad for your heath and related to the residue, or just because of it being a gas and cold?

justchillin123
22-09-2010, 13:57
i might be a bit off topic im not sure but with nitrous i dont think there are any safer or better bulbs out there for you, although im not sure of the dangers of oxide huffing i could see it being really bad for your head. Used to do nitrous quite a bit a few years ago but i decided that 10 second buzz isnt worth it i guess itd be fun if you have a lot of it but na theres already enough drugs out there that are doing me damage, so im curious why do u use it,
cheers

satricion
22-09-2010, 14:41
Well nitrous oxide isn't neurotoxic. It doesn't actually damage your brain or negatively influence you cognitively or emotionally. I've done a shitload of nitrous and I'm doing a PhD so it can't be that big of a deal. Speed, ecstasy or alcohol are much harder on the brain. Nitrous is just a silly, harmless bit of fun. It's a waste of time but it's enjoyable. That's why I use it.

PsiloSubNaut
22-09-2010, 14:53
^+1

silverpigeon
22-09-2010, 18:05
Nitrous is wicked fun, and relatively harmless, but not completely so. Short term side effects are headache, though some people are more sensitive than others. Get a serious bender going and you can theoretically develop peripheral nerve damage - numbness, tingling & reduced sensation in your limbs. This is because nitrous oxide interferes with vitamin B12 and the production of the fatty layers around our nerves. This then interferes with transmission of nerve signals.
Our liver stores roughly a years worth of B12 but if you're doing lots of nangs you will chew through this much faster than usual. This is particularly true for any vegans, who might have low levels to start, as our body must ingest B12 from animal products.

After some epic binges I have had 'funny turns' a few days later not explainable by anything other than the cocktail of fun 48hrs prior. I become dizzy and the environment surreal for a period of around ten seconds. I can't say nangs are to blame for sure but I've never experienced this after a bender that didn't involve shitloads of nitrous.

All in all though nangs are good clean fun, and relatively harmless. And although as expensive as coke if you consider cost vs time gacked, at least nangs add to an MDMA high not trample it :)

drug_mentor
22-09-2010, 18:08
Gotta remember to take some B12 supplements if you hit it too hard though, it might not be neurotoxic but as with any drug ignorance and overuse can still be a recipe for disaster.

- Whoops, looks like somebody beat me to it, LOL.

bobbydarren
23-09-2010, 04:43
i decided that 10 second buzz isnt worth it i guess itd be fun if you have a lot of it but na theres already enough drugs out there that are doing me damage, so im curious why do u use it,
cheers

In my opinion it's a complete waste of money using it by it'self. However it's extremely synergistic or maybe potentiating (not sure of right term) when used with weed, acid, mushrooms, MDMA etc.


Well nitrous oxide isn't neurotoxic. It doesn't actually damage your brain.

Nitrous will destroy your brain deader than death. 50% nitrous, 50% oxygen is not damaging. NItrous without oxygen is very definitely neurotoxic. No oxygen = brain death. This is the reason I think so many people get headaches and even hangovers the next morning. It's why I gave up nitrous. I was sure it was destroying my brain, as I had no way of accurately measuring 50/50 nitrous/oxygen, and remembering a breath of air is only 20% oxygen.
The problem however Is that I feel it sort of destroys the trip. nitrous launches you off into another world for a minute or so, and when you come back you just want to keep doing nitrous to get you back there, and then the trip without the nitrous suddenly feels a lot milder and maybe even dead. (personal opinion)

bobbydarren
23-09-2010, 04:48
This sounds like a big and complicated effort. And dangerous given the consequences of fucking it up while sober or out of it on nangs. I think it's better just to do bulbs.

Yeah just depends if you happened upon some car nitrous. BTW you can make your own nitrous using a mixture of washed sand and ammonium nitrate heated in glassware and filtered through the same system. I've seen a old $5 vinnies pressure cooker used.

Unfortunately Ammonium nitrate isn't a legal fertiliser anymore so unless you live on a farm or something you won't have any access to it. Point taken though, bulbs are much simpler and really the cost helps you buying too many, so self regulates addiction.

satricion
23-09-2010, 07:46
There is a technique to breathing properly when doing nitrous. Snatch a quick breath between each breath of nitrous and breath properly after the nang and you're fine.

phase_dancer
24-09-2010, 01:42
Producing N2O from NH4NO3 is not recommended as explosions are a real possibility. Impurities such as copper and organic materials; hydrocarbons, char etc lower the decomposition and detonation temperatures, so unless you are 100% sure the ammonium nitrate is absolutely pure and your heating vessel spotlessly clean, there is still danger using a pressure cooker. Only for the experts.

bobbydarren
25-09-2010, 14:30
Yeah, you're right about explosion potential, but that's the purpose of adding the 50% washed river sand. It desensitises the solution.

phase_dancer
26-09-2010, 01:54
but that's the purpose of adding the 50% washed river sand. It desensitises the solution.

I can't seem to find a reference for this. I would think that if sand does desentitize, whether through reducing concentration or by other means, it should probably be acid washed to remove possible trace metal oxides and organic material.

satricion
28-09-2010, 11:20
Hmm well there you are. So long term heavy use has cognitive consequences. Are there any studies on short term recreational use?

Do you think your memory problems are connected with nitrous? I mean, lots of drug users have memory issues but I'd say ecstasy for example is much worse than nangs...

puckboy
28-09-2010, 13:19
I'm also a PhD student and I researched this article since I was beginning to have lapses in my short term memory. The article below may not be in a high impact journal but it's an interesting case nonetheless:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go1613/is_4_13/ai_n9745442/

"Cognitive impairment associated with habitual nitrous oxide abuse in a 63-year-old health professional"

This is a study of a man who abused nitrous for 20 years and was forced into rehabilation because he was caught nanging on the job :)

After reading that article, I'm not sure that is evidence for N2O impacting on someones cognitive abilities considering he is a 63 year old man and cognitive function naturally decreases with age. Was it the nitrous? or is he just getting old? Bit of both maybe?

I'm not saying N2O is perfectly safe, not at all. Just questioning it's potential for such a physiological impact on someone's brain. Though I don't know the extent to which this bloke was inhaling medical-grade N2O on a daily basis.

Marijuana, ecstasy, amphetamines, alcohol and benzos have all impacted on my memory and cognitive functioning when abused. And I've sucked down alot of nangs throughout this drug-haze I still find myself in, so perhaps they have had quite a large impact which I haven't been aware of due to the poly-drug-use. Conclusion: I have no bloody idea, I want to see more research and evidence regarding the abuse of nitrous oxide.

bunt
28-09-2010, 15:00
Age is definately involved with cognitive impairment. They compared the man to reference groups of people of the same age and of identical medical circumstances to identify any aberrant differences.

drug_mentor
28-09-2010, 18:15
Much like puckboy I never really considered the impact of nangs when I was using them heavily and when I did I was abusing lots of other drugs, particlarly marijuana and ecstasy. I always thought ecstasy in particular, especially when used during periods of heavy bong smoking, fucked up my memory HEAPS. Perhaps nitrous did have more of an impact than I previously thought..

TechnoNinja
30-09-2010, 22:10
just a quick one although the cheaper brands claim 8g of nos, they have found to contain as little as 6g. you really do get what you pay for. and check out the inside of your canister after a serious binge to see what you really are putting in your lungs. peacel.

Ekstasis-//7
22-02-2012, 11:11
There are some main risks of using Nitrous Oxide in actual fact as fas as I know well still don't understand how it prodices the high and anethesia.

Two medically trained people have told me you need to breathe air after 1.5mins. After 2 minutes of no air (such as Nitrous) you will get hypoxia and brain cells will die. Since the buildup of CO2 carbon dioxide usually gives up the responce we need to breath in this is diverted by breathing in another gas like N2O or Helium. Basically advissable take large deap breaths of air befire having some N20 and for your first time set a stop watch going so you know when 1.5 minutes is up and you can turn off the tap or hold the bulloon tight.

More info seems to come forward all the time on the possible harms N20 does to the body. Thre is an Erowid article of an Aussie doctor who no longer uses it for aneathesia becuase he believed patioend recovered quicker and got less nastys likel pneumonia.

One of the worst relatively new theroies is that heavy use can damage use or even use in people with low Vitamin B12. Tingling, numbness in the extremeties or ringing in the ears for longer than a day could be the first signs of this painful condiftion, It can be permanent but also can be treated if treated earlier. Personally from my reading the standard Vitamin B12cyanocobalamin is crap it had to be processes through the liver into anything usable. The only bioalavlbe form I've read doctors say have a whole holst of other benefits including benefiting the eyes is vitaminB12 Methylcobalamin. You can find methylcobalamin on ebay, the talbets are small and if you read the label they are actually sublingual. Held under the tongue until filly dissolved to enter the blood their. 1 doctor was reccomendind 3000micrograms of methylcobalamin per day for suffering perople. My bottle says 1000mics a day for standard health.

I'm glad I've got onto this becuse I am vegetarian (usually low vB12) I've had just a box or two of ISI brand give me tingles, slight numbness in the forarms and finger tips.

Lastly if you've ever wiped out your dispenser after 4-6 boxes of ISI (Austraian) supposedly the best standard grafe bulbs if found it common the see black machine oil in my fingers and tiny flecks of metal.

I buy a pvc pipe jround the around the same diamater ad the mouthpiece (better the PVC a little small than way to big). You may wanna cut off those pointed bits off the plastic mouthpiece as they only pop bulloons and tear holes in filters. Next sew some kind of fairly thick cotton material around the mouthpice.. It could be a small baby sock ect, Now you cut lengths of the pvc pipe around 10cm or whatever you like. You need your N20 Dispenser with the mouthoice tughed oib tight and the fabric filter held (preferebly sewed on). Head one end of a piece of PCV pipe eith a heatgun, or if not available maybe a hot airdyer will do. A toaster definatley works just keep the pvc up and out of the toast slot. Once it's hot you can slife the hot end of the pvc pipe down only the mouthpice that already has the fabric filter. wait till really cool before pulling off.

When working you are only limited by your buloon size. for example get those big party balooonds roll in on the length of PVC the slide the other end of the pvc onto the mouthpiece. Crack a bulb into the machine and it done right you can hold down the handle without even holding the pvc pipe and buloon. Keep cracking more balloons and reasing ito the large baloon eash time. THe most I've put in one baloon so far is 7 and it just starts to look too big and silly to carry around.

Mr Blonde
22-02-2012, 12:09
Personally from my reading the standard Vitamin B12cyanocobalamin is crap it had to be processes through the liver into anything usable. The only bioalavlbe form I've read doctors say have a whole holst of other benefits including benefiting the eyes is vitaminB12 Methylcobalamin.

Cyanocobalamin is bioavailable, just not very readily. You absorb enough from your diet to get by though. You are right that methylcobalamin is a more bioavailabe vitamer.