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View Full Version : (heroin) Is (non IV) tar worse for you than powder heroin?



sir_thizzalot
10-08-2010, 03:53
I've assumed it is , but couldn't find any info on here about why.
If you're not injecting it, then how is tar worse for you than normal heroin? I'm guessing toxic impurities or something like that. Also, what is the healthiest way to do tar?
I haven't ever done it and have no plans to at the moment, mostly I wanted to know for when the time comes that I'm offered it (more people are starting to do it around me).
:)

skoat
10-08-2010, 03:59
Neither are healthy man.

having done both, I'd just like to say that anything white is usually going to better for your body but thats a very vague statement. please don't quote me.

I used to put tar in a spoon and cook it up with some water and then snort that shit with a straw. It did some damage to my nose. I didn't bother with plugging when I was younger. You could do that if you wanted the safest ROA IMO.

I've snorted a lot of white boi as well, that stuff will clog up your nose as well if you do enough of it. Tar always burned going down my throat because I had to mix it with water, fucking tasted like vinegar. end ramble

sir_thizzalot
10-08-2010, 04:11
^
Thanks, but I really wanted some reasons why tar is worse than china or #4. I'm thinking plugging may be most healthy like you said, but I will probably smoke it(now that I've thought about it, that's how everybody around here(anybody I'd do it with) does it. People smoke everything..).

I've done lots of opioids and like them, but don't love them. Mostly I've done lots because I have gotten lots incredibly cheap(unused prescriptions for dirt cheap, some big ones too). I do enjoy them though, but wouldn't be found paying street prices for OC or anything. Some big addiction won't be a problem for me, mostly curious for occasional use.

skoat
10-08-2010, 04:18
Smoking is much worse for your lungs, but hey its your life dude. I'd snort it if I was you if you don't want to plug it.

The reason its worse than the white I can get in DC is because it has a very acidic PH when black tar is mixed with water and snorted. Therefor not being too kind to your nose. If you can mix it up between some 'waterlining' & smoking you should be alright.

Oh, and watch out. That baby monkey turns into a four hundred pound Gorilla.

jamesBrown
10-08-2010, 04:19
It all depends on what you have.....

There is black tar heroin which is pure heroin....when they make heroin from opium or morphine if you want to get technical it comes out as a darck, sticky, vinegary substance thats pretty much pure heroin.

Then there is brown powder heroin.
All that is is black tar heroin cut with lactose...therefore, theoretically making it less "healthy" than the pure tar form. Its also less potent.

But, if they make the heroin using a different chemical process, they can make it into diacetylmorphine hydrochloride, otherwise known as china white. This is the white powder heroin which is also pure(unless it's cut obviously)

So....if you have sticky black tar heroin(unless its cut with a bunch of shit but ive never known tar to be cut with anything because its hard to find a black sticky vinegary smelling substance to cut it with) than its pure and healthier than brown powder heroin because all that is, is tar cut with white lactose, making it a lighter brown color, and making into a powder form.

But, if you have china white(diacetylmorphine hydrochloride) than its probably just as pure if not more than the black tar, making it just as "healthy". Allthough its much easier to cut pure white heroin with any white powdery substance(there are thousands) to make it less potent and less healthy.

So it all just depends on what you got.

sir_thizzalot
10-08-2010, 04:49
Smoking is much worse for your lungs, but hey its your life dude. I'd snort it if I was you if you don't want to plug it.

The reason its worse than the white I can get in DC is because it has a very acidic PH when black tar is mixed with water and snorted. Therefor not being too kind to your nose. If you can mix it up between some 'waterlining' & smoking you should be alright.

Oh, and watch out. That baby monkey turns into a four hundred pound Gorilla.

Thanks, this is more what I was looking for. I'll alternate like you recommended.

One post up(james somethin somethin), pretty sure powder #4 isn't made from tar... but I could be wrong, anybody else like to comment on that?

skoat
10-08-2010, 04:55
I think what he was getting at is that if you refined tar enough times, it would be white or brown powder heroin. I'm not sure which tho. He is correct on some level, for sure.

sir_thizzalot
10-08-2010, 05:03
^
Is that something those of us who do not manufacture heroin could do to clean up tar? Now I'm getting more interested..
I was sure that tar could never be 100% heroin, am I wrong? I thought it had codeine and other stuff in it too.

jamesBrown
10-08-2010, 05:09
No, codeine is one of the MANY opioids that is contained within raw opium.

jamesBrown
10-08-2010, 05:14
To make heroin, they take raw opium, convert it to morphine, than convert it to diacetylmorphine.

Its just that there are a few different processes that they can do this resulting in "different types"(or forms) of heroin.

Like I said, if they convert it to diacetylmorphine hydrochloride, that means its the hydrochlochloride(basically salt) formation of heroin, which is commonly known as china white.

They can also use another chemical process to convert morphine into heroin(Im not going to get into all the details of each conversion method in this post because it would take too long) and that form would produce the "tar" form of heroin. Of course these dont produce 100% percent pure diacetylmorphine(heroin) because most the time there made in makeshift labs in pakistan or thailand....but if they were made in actuall labs, than it is possible to make it 100% pure heroin. But they are pure enough(probably around 80-98% pure) to be considered pure heroin, because by the time it hits the streets, it will have been cut probably several times to a much smaller purity level.

jamesBrown
10-08-2010, 05:19
I know what im talking about. I used to sell heroin.

I would buy pretty much pure black tar heroin(atleast 90% pure) from mexico( I live near the border), and then put some in a coffee grinder, add lactose, and blend it up.....the resulting product is a brown powder that you can snort(or inject if you want). This is heroin. Brown powdered heroin. I didnt call it #4 or any bullshit number.....its a chemical mixed with another chemical...called heroin.

You can basically split heroin up into these two categories.....

diacetylmorphine - Black Tar Heroin
or
diacetylmorphine hydrochloride - China White powdered heroin

jamesBrown
10-08-2010, 05:22
Whatever people do to diacetylmorphine after its made is up to them, and they can give it whatever number they like, but when it comes down to chemicall structures, when you wanna talk about the actuality of what heroin is......those two formations are as basic as it gets. People just add names and numbers to help sell there product by saying that #4 heroin is better or more pure than this other type of heroin...ect....ect....ect.

Understand?

Im willing to answer any questions you may have if you truly are interested.

sir_thizzalot
10-08-2010, 07:34
I always assumed when people say #4 it was just indicating brown powder heroin(not saying "better", just saying not white and not tar).

So, why would you add lactose to tar, then sell it, instead of just selling tar (like everybody in my state)? Easier to snort and IV than just the tar or something?

I guess my real question would be this- all I can get easily is tar, how would you recommend using it/prepping it for that type of use(if I get it)? I'm trying to get some needles for IMing K soon but am not really wanting to shoot tar.

Also you should probably edit out that certain something that might be self-incriminating :)

Tommyboy
10-08-2010, 09:35
This might help explain things.... The 1st post describes the differences and other relative info.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=396038

Sir Thizzalot, I really don't think that you should do heroin. Just the way that you are writing about it in this thread seems to me like you are doing it for the wrong reasons... not that any reason is really right. But most people do heroin when they work their way up the pharmaceutical opiate ladder, and can no longer afford OC for example, and are so sick from withdrawals that they choose the cheaper alternative being heroin.

Your writing like your doing it socially with people. If thats the case, these are most likely people that you do not want to be around. I have done heroin and can tell you that all of the nice people that I did it with ended up in debt to dealers, ripping off anybody to get money for a fix, and eventually ended up in rehab, jail, or left the state.

You said you think plugging is the safest (and I may agree when it comes to tar), but you will probably smoke it because that's what the people around you do.... C'mon, heroin isn't weed. It's not like "hey, lets meet up at Johns, get in a circle and pass around a foil with tar on it and chase the dragon together, then goto Sallys house to watch a movie". You really shouldn't downplay this just because you may smoke it or plug it, but not IV it.

Sorry for the rant/lecture, but you just seem like you have no clue what you may be getting yourself into... And if you do, then you wouldn't go through with trying it.

TokinDerrick
10-08-2010, 11:09
just to clarify, people don't just throw numbers on heroin.

there is a reason for different number heroin. its heroin in different stages/types. from what I understand (don't quote me on this) #4 is powdered lighter coloured heroin, and #3 is the kind of heroin that you have to add citrus to to break down and inject. I don't know what #1 and #2 are. I have heard that #1 is the kind of black tar we usually get in the states that can be broken down in regular water but I'm not sure.

Tommyboy
10-08-2010, 18:06
^^^ You were half right. The first two sentences were correct. Check out the post I made above yours. It has a link to a thread about the different # heroins.

jamesBrown
10-08-2010, 18:29
That link says that tar heroin still has impurities in it like the other opiate alkaloids. This is not true. I know that from first hand experience. They must be thinking of pure raw opium.
Opium is the only tarry substance that still contains all the opiate alkaloids in it. It contains morphine, codeine, etc...

Tommyboy
10-08-2010, 18:43
@JamesBrown- Some steps are skipped in refining the tar that are used in refining powder. That is what leads to some impurities including opiate alkaloids being left in the resulting product.

"Tar's unique appearance and texture is due to its acetylation without benefit of the usual reflux apparatus. It should also be noted that the percent of the remainder of black tar heroin is often other psychoactive opiate substances, like monoacetylmorphine in the form of 3- and 6-monoacetylmorphine (3-MAM and 6-MAM) in addition to the usual adulterants and dilutents found in other forms of heroin."
I hate to quote wikipedia, but it's also common knowledge here on bluelight that tar contains these other alkaloids.

jamesBrown
10-08-2010, 18:49
Well I guess the tar I get is different than most others because I would even try to purify it to pure diacetylmorphine with a method using hydrochloric acid, distilled water, and sodium bicarbonate and the end product I would get would be the exact weight that I started with(or pretty much the exact same)........meaning.......what I started with was pretty much pure diacetylmorphine

Tommyboy
10-08-2010, 18:56
I think that method is used to just remove cutting agents. I don't think that monoacetylmorphine would be broken down by that method.

jamesBrown
10-08-2010, 19:17
EH i dont care enough to keep this conversation going....ive been clean for three months now and I was just trying to help someone, thats all. I guess Ill just drop it and everyone can think what they want to think. Im just happy I have my life back and dont depend on heroin to get me through the day.

sir_thizzalot
10-08-2010, 20:31
This might help explain things.... The 1st post describes the differences and other relative info.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=396038

Sir Thizzalot, I really don't think that you should do heroin. Just the way that you are writing about it in this thread seems to me like you are doing it for the wrong reasons... not that any reason is really right. But most people do heroin when they work their way up the pharmaceutical opiate ladder, and can no longer afford OC for example, and are so sick from withdrawals that they choose the cheaper alternative being heroin.

Your writing like your doing it socially with people. If thats the case, these are most likely people that you do not want to be around. I have done heroin and can tell you that all of the nice people that I did it with ended up in debt to dealers, ripping off anybody to get money for a fix, and eventually ended up in rehab, jail, or left the state.

You said you think plugging is the safest (and I may agree when it comes to tar), but you will probably smoke it because that's what the people around you do.... C'mon, heroin isn't weed. It's not like "hey, lets meet up at Johns, get in a circle and pass around a foil with tar on it and chase the dragon together, then goto Sallys house to watch a movie". You really shouldn't downplay this just because you may smoke it or plug it, but not IV it.

Sorry for the rant/lecture, but you just seem like you have no clue what you may be getting yourself into... And if you do, then you wouldn't go through with trying it.

Thanks for the link, I hadn't read the #s part before. I've done a lot of opiates and other downers, and they just aren't something I crave when I'm not using them. I realize heroin is stronger, but before using it I can tell myself to put a break xx long between each use and stick to that. The drugs I crave are uppers like meth, which I also told myself I'd put a long break inbetween each use, and I have(and that is something I can crave a ton, and it's dirtt cheap for clear glass, so it's all will power stopping anybody who likes it from abusing it).

But, like I said, I won't go searching for tar, I just know it's something friends have been doing for a bit now, and even the ones that were OC addicts in the past keep use spaced out and make sure the others using it do too.
I've got my answers, thanks everyone! I won't be smoking it, IF I even use it(even if it's offered, I'd have to be in the mood anyways to want to do it) I'll make a snortable solution.