PDA

View Full Version : (cocaine) crack vs. Freebase?



Voxide
27-07-2010, 01:00
Can someone explain the difference?

From what I currently understand: Crack = HCL + Baking soda. Needs a direct flame. (Glass stem)

Freebase: HCL + Chemistry involving ammonia and ether. Doesn't need a direct flame.

Is this true?

phrozen
27-07-2010, 03:10
Never had freebase, so I can't comment on that.

Are you talking about how you smoke it?
You don't need a direct flame to smoke crack.

Voxide
27-07-2010, 03:18
Never had freebase, so I can't comment on that.

Are you talking about how you smoke it?
You don't need a direct flame to smoke crack.

Sure, you don't NEED a direct flame, but from my understanding, using anything other than a glass stem for crack is a waste. Effects can be had from using foil, but not to the full potential. The main thing I'm asking is if freebase made from ether vaporizes differently.

Levvytation
27-07-2010, 03:28
Didn't Richard Prior nearly burn his head off freebasing coke?

Years ago before crack, he was probably using ether..

Munroe
27-07-2010, 03:33
From what I understand, freebase cocaine is cocaine in its basic form rather than as a salt.
I've often heard that the freebase form of a compound is the compound liberated from its salt form.
In this case, Cocaine is liberated from the Hcl molecule.

Crack cocaine is a less pure form of freebase cocaine, with sodium as an impurity from the "traditional" method of cooking crack rocks with bakin soda.

Voxide
27-07-2010, 03:42
Didn't Richard Prior nearly burn his head off freebasing coke?

Years ago before crack, he was probably using ether..
Yes. He was using the correct, albeit dangerous, method.

From what I understand, freebase cocaine is cocaine in its basic form rather than as a salt.
I've often heard that the freebase form of a compound is the compound liberated from its salt form.
In this case, Cocaine is liberated from the Hcl molecule.

Crack cocaine is a less pure form of freebase cocaine, with sodium as an impurity from the "traditional" method of cooking crack rocks with bakin soda.
That's what I'm getting as well. I have never done either, but from lurking on this forum for quite a bit, I've come to the conclusion that ether/ammonia freebase is basically baking soda rock on steroids. Some input from someone with experience with both would be appreciated. Not sure when or where I heard this, but freebase can be vaporized and smoked effectively just as meth with an indirect flame in a lightbulb or meth pipe whereas crack can't. Not effectively, anyway. I want to confirm if this is true. Also, if smoking freebase from a stem would be ineffective.

I'm also somewhat sure that this method yields crystals rather than rocks.

Munroe
27-07-2010, 03:55
Just read through a few extraction and purification teks.
Ammonia method of making freebase makes a freebase product of only cocaine, wheras the more simple baking soda method creates freebase of cocaine and any "freebase-able" impurites, so meth/amphetamine and friends all join the party.

As you originally thought, freebase is just purer crack.

Voxide
27-07-2010, 04:05
Just read through a few extraction and purification teks.
Ammonia method of making freebase makes a freebase product of only cocaine, wheras the more simple baking soda method creates freebase of cocaine and any "freebase-able" impurites, so meth/amphetamine and friends all join the party.

As you originally thought, freebase is just purer crack.

Thought so. :)

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=335233&highlight=freebase+cocaine

I read up on this thread. The synthesis is great and all, but the thread fails to mention how to actually use the said freebase. Now, my main question is this:

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1233108507/024/361024.jpg
Ok for "real" freebase? For street crack it isn't, but could maximum effects be achieved by smoking freebase exactly like meth?

Munroe
27-07-2010, 04:14
Yes. You would vaporise both crack and freebase in the same way as you would smoke meth.

On an interesting but related side note:

Six healthy male, paid subjects smoked 50 mg of free-base cocaine in a specially designed glass pipe under a rigidly controlled smoking protocol. The method of heating the pipe and the temperature that produced the most efficient and consistent vaporization of the drug had been determined experimentally. The psychological and cardiovascular effects of smoking free-base cocaine were recorded. Approximately 26% of th original material was recovered from the pipe after smoking. Simulated smoking experiments in vitro indicated that only 44% of the material not trapped in the pipe was cocaine and that over 90% of this cocaine was delivered during the first four puffs (i.e., during the first 2 min of simulated smoking). These findings indicate that of the original 50 mg of cocaine free base placed in the pipe's bowl, only 32% could have been inhaled (16.3 +/- 0.6 mg). The cocaine free base inhaled induced psychological and cardiovascular effects similar to, or slightly more intense and pleasurable than, the effects of 20 mg of cocaine HCl (18 mg of cocaine base) taken intravenously by the same subjects and also induced a slightly more intense craving for another dose. -http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7116761

Voxide
27-07-2010, 19:55
Yes. You would vaporise both crack and freebase in the same way as you would smoke meth.

On an interesting but related side note:
-http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7116761

Yes, but crack is normally vaporized in a stem with a direct flame. At least here it is.

And I've seen that study. Pretty strange.

mdmantpa
27-07-2010, 20:54
I've come to the conclusion that ether/ammonia freebase is basically baking soda rock on steroids. Some input from someone with experience with both would be appreciated.

If you have never smoked crack dont start, you'll be much better off. But yeah basically the only difference is how the person frees the cocaine base from the HCL. One method uses baking soda the other ammonia. The ammonia method is 'more clean/pure' but you wont really notice a difference unless the person cooking your rocks sucks and tries to stretch the shit out of his product with a ton of baking soda. If you had two rocks, one was good "crack" the other was good "base" you wouldn't be able to tell me which one was which. They would both get you high as fuck and cracked out for a good 5-10minutes before your next hit. THe biggest difference in your high will come from how you smoke it...anything other than either a glass rose or a classic crack pipe is a complete waste of product IMO

Voxide
27-07-2010, 21:24
If you have never smoked crack dont start, you'll be much better off. But yeah basically the only difference is how the person frees the cocaine base from the HCL. One method uses baking soda the other ammonia. The ammonia method is 'more clean/pure' but you wont really notice a difference unless the person cooking your rocks sucks and tries to stretch the shit out of his product with a ton of baking soda. If you had two rocks, one was good "crack" the other was good "base" you wouldn't be able to tell me which one was which. They would both get you high as fuck and cracked out for a good 5-10minutes before your next hit. THe biggest difference in your high will come from how you smoke it...anything other than either a glass rose or a classic crack pipe is a complete waste of product IMO

Thanks for the info. I have never smoked rocks, and most likely I never will, but I was just wondering the difference between the 2 of them. I know that for crack you pretty much need a stem with a direct flame, but I remember hearing somewhere that you actually can't use a direct flame with clean base. It must be vaporized in a bulb-type pipe.

mdmantpa
27-07-2010, 21:28
^you never really want to hit the rock with the flame with either one (that will burn, not vaporize the cocaine) but it happens, I mean your high as fuck, keeping a steady hand isnt always easy lol

Voxide
27-07-2010, 21:46
^you never really want to hit the rock with the flame with either one (that will burn, not vaporize the cocaine) but it happens, I mean your high as fuck, keeping a steady hand isnt always easy lol

I get it. What about foil freebasing? People add some coke, water and baking soda to a foily and then smoke it. Would this be considered smoking crack since it's being turned into a rock with the heat and water?

Like so: (Skip to 4:15) http://www.aetv.com/intervention/video/?bcpid=53411497001&bclid=1460849036&bctid=1474221273



It doesn't even look like he's mixing anything with it. If you look closely, he spits on the foil and it looks like it's working. It also looks to be powder. I could be wrong though. If it was powder, he'd be wasting it.

mdmantpa
27-07-2010, 22:12
i know what you are talking about, but believe me its a total waste, you probably lose about 60-70% of the product doing it that way. A lot people call that "smoking coke" around here even tho its really basing it

Voxide
27-07-2010, 23:03
i know what you are talking about, but believe me its a total waste, you probably lose about 60-70% of the product doing it that way. A lot people call that "smoking coke" around here even tho its really basing it

Yeah I'd imagine it's pretty wasteful if you aren't using real freebase.

Voxide
28-07-2010, 18:45
bump. Awaiting info from experienced users.

CrissiChemist
01-02-2011, 10:18
Ok, here's the science and the best I can tell how it relates to "freebase cocaine" aka "crack"(as best as some ditzy blonde can describe - feel free to call me out if I make a mistake!)

"Freebase" is a chemical term meaning basically "the main chemical is not a 'salt'." 'Salt' meaning the product of reacting a base with an acid. In a safe lab, etc, mixing sodium hydroxide and Hydrochloric acid will give you table salt and water (starting with the right amounts, etc) , other starting chemicals yield other salts. In this case the Sodium Hydroxide could be considered the "base" that is reacted with an acid to yeild a salt. (Cocaine base plus HydroChloric acid (HCl) yeilds Cocaine HCl, or "powdered cocaine" as it is known, although both base and powder can look about the same, they don't act the same esp. their water soluability.

Specifically of interest here is "Cocaine Freebase" or "Methamphetamine Freebase" which could be also called cocaine paste (appears as a white paste even when very pure), or Meth Base (appears as an liquid oily substance when pure). React those with HCl vapors and you get Cocaine HCl or Meth HCl, which are the powders most are familiar with, and are both 'salts' as we say. "Salts" dissolve good in water usually, freebases often don't. Thus the desire for Cocaine HCl when in an sniff'a line mood or when wanting it to dissolve in water.

But if smoking is desired, swim has to look at the vaporization temperatures vrs. the temps at which the chemicals themselves start to burn/degrade. Turns out Cocaine HCL has a very very high vaporization temp, so high it'll mostly burn before vaporizing, wasting most of what one has. Cocaine Freebase doesn't have this problem, it vaporizes at a low enough temp. to allow a significant amount to go into vapor and into swim's lungs/bloodstream...but won't dissolve in water, so no good to snort.
(Numbers from Wiki) - "Crack vaporizes near 90 C (194 F),much lower than the cocaine hydrochloride melting point of 190 C (374 F)" and that's not even the vaporization point of Cocaine HCl, it's just the melting point. Burning of product occures. If soym ever felt anything from this it is most likely either some cocaine got based in the flames or they inhaled some of the powder before it burnt.
Meth vaporizes at a medium temperature between the two extreems of Cocaine.

Meth also has a freebase, but unless you make it large-scale you'll probably never see it. Why? 'cause the Meth HCl seems to vaporize to a good enough extent without it all burning that we don't need to mess with trying to make/use Meth Freebase (oily liquid hard to deal with, so its much easier to have 'powders' unless you're IG Farben or someone...). I think it'd be rather low-boiling, probably could be used effectively; but without a good reason like the difference between the two cocaine's vapor pressure, the availability of Meth FreeBase will most likely never take off.

So, no matter what it's called, Coke base is the smokin' type, Coke HCl is the snortin' type, and it don't matter with meth (and most anything else one can vaporize successfully) if you've got the base or a salt as it'd dosn't affect the vaporization temps that much.

Shambles
01-02-2011, 10:41
I usually used the ammonia method to wash up coke. You use it same as any other crack - it's identical except it has no bicarb in the end product. It's just another name for crack that's made with ammonia (never known anybody make it with ammonia cos it has a tendency to go bang).

jammon
10-08-2012, 05:15
yeah crack is freebase cocaine only that it's been cooked with baking soda and water. Water is the only solvent here used so impurities remain.
'Freebase' is purer than 'crack' cause they do it with Ammonia and then they wash it water, dry it and wash with Ether or Acetone
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/563869-First-cocaine-purification-experiment?p=10816257&viewfull=1#post10816257
id say don't smoke or shoot stimulants