quitting pot like quitting heroin?

interesting stuff. the reason i ask is because i recently quit smoking weed after a hefty habit and found it mentally extremely difficult, crazy mood swings, edgey. i know the physical aspect of a heroin addiction is the huge difference but it looks like the mental parts might be similar. i have too many friends that have been and are currently addicted to heroin and was just wondering if what i was going through could somehow relate to the way they are feeling. i posted something in the dark side that describes how i felt.

Dr.kush said:

well i have done both, and i have to say hands down that i will choose to quit weed over heroin any fucking day. they are similar in that you crave both, you dont feel normal until you get both, you sometimes have a hard time eating while quitting weed, and have some trouble sleeping. the differences are that heroin your fucking sick as fuck, with heroin you will go to great lengths to get high, not that many people will do that for weed.

but if you made this thread to say, well i quit weed so i can quit H. TRUST me its a lot harder to just quit heroin. you might for a week then you will go right back to using again. and o yeah another difference between to while quitting is to quit heroin for good you either die, go to rehab, or prison, those are your three options. so choose the best one for you, and go to rehab. IF you have a problem that is.

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Ughh H withdrawls... I have never felt so awful in my life. Not pleasant at all. Even watching others go through it makes me cringe.. Mmm most opiate users I know never ever quit for long sadly.

I have smoked cannabis on and off very heavily for about 16 years and i have never noticed anything resembling physical withdrawal symptoms. I have cold turkeyed off hydromorphone (snorted and IV), morphine (oral and IV) and oxycodone (oral) and some of the withdrawals have been nothing short of hell. So for me atleast cannabis has no physical withdrawal.

Perhaps some people are just more sensitive to it.

i dont know anything about heroin, but while quitting pot can be hard for some, the fact that you can endure the slight WD (a few days of poor appetite and a few nights of having trouble sleeping) and do not really need to taper puts it in a different ball park.

you cannot just flush your valium. you have to take it, but you cannot take anywhere close to the dose you want. you have to have the will power to take the bottle out of your drawer, break a pill in half, take what seems like nothing, and then put the bottle back in the drawer, feel the slightest bit of relief and taste of what you are dying for, but then not open that drawer again until as late as you can possibly stand the next day. towards the end, i do every other day.

the difference is, with benzos or i imagine opiates, you know how much is on the line, and you are truly fighting to quit. you work so hard for so long to taper; you know what a big deal fucking your schedule up will be. with weed, who cares if you relapse. you can just quit again tomorrow. so then you never successfully quit.

I really dont think its comparable. Ive never doin opiates before, but im in sober living coming off smoking a ton of weed for 3+ years. You do get some discomfort, yes, but the people here who are detoxing off heroin were wayyy worse off.

I really didnt have any discomfort after i saw how bad they were doing. It is very hard for me to quit smoking pot unless i give my phone to a friend for a couple days, cause the second i start to crave ill go get some. You need to have activities to keep yourself busy. Running, riding a bike, work or something. If you sit around all day watching TV youll just want to go smoke.

All i know is i'm trying to quit marijuana right now, and it is fucking hard. There are so many different tasty strains as well, that does not help.

In my case, I would say it is easier to quit H, simly cause it is a bitch to cop and whatnot. Marijuana is EVERYWHERE.

bolded for clarification.

^^^
It may be a bitch for you or I to cop, but most addicts are probably experts at it and it's particularly prevalent in certain areas. I've never done heroin but I would be willing to bet that if I drove the 50 or so miles to philly I'd be able to find a way to get it, even having no real idea how.

Coolio said:

They're very comparable. They push the same buttons. The CB1 receptor and the mu opioid receptor allosterically interact; they're like two keyholes on the same door, and when you open one, it partially opens the other to a degree? Not that doors and keys are a good analogy for receptor binding. All evidence points to the cannabinoid and opioid receptors being physically located on the same heterodimeric G-coupled protein receptor complex. When one moves, the other is attached so it also has to move.

Cannabinoids also cause a physical withdrawal, as CB1/CB2 receptor downregulation has effects on your digestive system's ability to function. When you become tolerant to cannabis, your pancreas and stomach stop working properly without it.

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I won't deny that this may be true, but it would appear that in the majority of marijuana smokers the withdrawal just isn't comparable to opiates. I think it's probably a pretty complex relationship between the two receptors seeing as marijuanas effects can be quite different from opiates. Marijuana is prone to causing anxiety in a lot of people, opiates seem to have anxiolitic effects.

Of course, using high doses of potent CB1 and CB2 agonists will cause more profound withdrawal symptoms than would be typical in the average cannabis smoker.

Right, most people don't actually use high enough doses to go through serious cannabis withdrawal. Withdrawals from a 20mg/day heroin habit aren't bad either.

^^^
Good point sir.

drscience said:

All i know is i'm trying to quit marijuana right now, and it is fucking hard. There are so many different tasty strains as well, that does not help.

In my case, I would say it is easier to quit H, simly cause it is a bitch to cop and whatnot. Marijuana is EVERYWHERE.

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[I know what you're trying to say but we don't condone posts like that in TDS - n3o]

Coolio said:

I've gone through cold turkey withdrawal from long-term use of extremely high doses of synthetic cannabinoids. I experienced dysphoria, extreme pain, anxiety, cold sweats, insomnia, body temperature dysregulation, goosebumps, chills, shivering, nausea, loss of appetite, etc. I have no idea how long it would have lasted; I gave up on quitting and started toking again before 3 days were up.

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I smoked or vaporized multiple times daily from beginning of Oct. 2003 until mid March 2008. EVERY DAY, not one missed day.

Then I went 10 days straight without toking as I went to Hawaii. Granted I was somewhere different (and fun) which greatly reduced cravings and mental WD (used to being at home and getting high).

I maybe had a slightly decreased appetite, but other than that, I was fine. Actually, some of the best food I've ever eaten was on that vacation and I didn't get high at all.


Everyone's body is different and everyone reacts differently to things, but I still am unconvinced of bad marijuana WD. However, you're not the first person I've seen complain about it, so maybe some individuals are sensitive to WD from it? If I had been doing dope everyday and went to Hawaii, I'd still be sick as fuck.

Frankly, I think you're just in an (unfortunate) minority.

You're talking about cannabis though, right? I'm talking about JWH-018 and CP 55940. Cannabis has a blend of agonists and antagonists in it that help reduce the amount of tolerance developed as well. How much cannabis would you vaporize per week?

belfort said:

i dunno, never even heard of pot withdrawal making you break out in sweat and bad stomach pains...hence why u never see people going to the emergency ward for pot detox..they would probably laugh at you if you went in there for that..lol..

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Cold sweats was my first withdrawal symptom even when I was a light weed smoker.

The other part, a drug and alcohol counselor recently told me I was insane for not going to detox for the amount of weed I smoked per day, and I experienced extreme psychotic effects from the withdrawals.

Sugar28 said:

Hmm strange. I have never really heard of this. I have always thought of pot as a drug you did just for fun no strings attached. I do believe there is some addiction qualities to it. But i'd always thought of it more as a mental thing.

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I thought that too, until my last quit attempt.

Dr.kush said:

well i have done both, and i have to say hands down that i will choose to quit weed over heroin any fucking day. they are similar in that you crave both, you dont feel normal until you get both, you sometimes have a hard time eating while quitting weed, and have some trouble sleeping. the differences are that heroin your fucking sick as fuck, with heroin you will go to great lengths to get high, not that many people will do that for weed.

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I refused to pay rent or buy food for weeks before I quit weed.

paranoid android said:

Perhaps some people are just more sensitive to it.

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hydroazuanacaine said:

i dont know anything about heroin, but while quitting pot can be hard for some, the fact that you can endure the slight WD (a few days of poor appetite and a few nights of having trouble sleeping) and do not really need to taper puts it in a different ball park.

you cannot just flush your valium. you have to take it, but you cannot take anywhere close to the dose you want. you have to have the will power to take the bottle out of your drawer, break a pill in half, take what seems like nothing, and then put the bottle back in the drawer, feel the slightest bit of relief and taste of what you are dying for, but then not open that drawer again until as late as you can possibly stand the next day. towards the end, i do every other day.

the difference is, with benzos or i imagine opiates, you know how much is on the line, and you are truly fighting to quit. you work so hard for so long to taper; you know what a big deal fucking your schedule up will be. with weed, who cares if you relapse. you can just quit again tomorrow. so then you never successfully quit.

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I had to taper to quit weed otherwise I would develop nearly full blown psychosis which lasted 1.5 days before I decided to smoke again and taper my dose.

And as for w/d's only lasting for a few days, I am 12 days off weed and STILL experiencing hot and cold flushes. Most other symptoms have faded though.

There was no way in hell that I was flushing my weed either. I refused to let my Gf near my bong to smash it, nearly to the point of physical abuse.

blazelate said:

It is very hard for me to quit smoking pot unless i give my phone to a friend for a couple days, cause the second i start to crave ill go get some.

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That just contradicted every thing else you said.

Coolio said:

Right, most people don't actually use high enough doses to go through serious cannabis withdrawal. Withdrawals from a 20mg/day heroin habit aren't bad either.

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Exactly, I was using easily 5g of bud a day that was easily some of the most potent hydro growing in the world. Normal people (no tolerance) would have half a cone and be stoned for 6+ hours. I'd smoke at least 15 before work, just to feel normal.


Every addiction is horrible, and no withdrawal is going to be worse than another, you will just experience different effects. All of which are over-comeable.

No one seems to understand the whole, every one is different and every addiction is different thing.

Minor xanax w/d were easier for me to handle then weed w/d.

Jakeperson said:

Every addiction is horrible

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^true dat.

and no withdrawal is going to be worse than another

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^say what?



I believe that some people are more prone to marijuana addiction than others, but unless you are shooting a cannaboid antagoinst, your WDs from weed cannot be horrible. even if you IV'd a cannaboid antagonist, they could not compare to real benzo WDs.

Yeah, pot is addictive. for some, including me, it is a bitch to quit and very addictive. don't built it up in your head though; that doesn't help.

Coolio said:

You're talking about cannabis though, right? I'm talking about JWH-018 and CP 55940. Cannabis has a blend of agonists and antagonists in it that help reduce the amount of tolerance developed as well. How much cannabis would you vaporize per week?

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I'm just speaking about cannabis, as that's what I took the thread topic to be.

Last few years, I probably average around 0.5 gram a day or an 1/8th a week in the vaporizer. Somedays maybe more a gram, somedays maybe just a 0.2. Some weeks I might use heavy, some a lot lighter. A gram is like 5 or 6 bowls in the vaporizer, and I get a lot of hits out of a bowl (more than 20).

When I was smoking it was really easy to smoke 1-1.5 grams a day (or more). It got too expensive and I didn't like the effect the smoke gave me (tired/shot feeling, lungs hurt, smelled, stained teeth, etc.)

Carl Landrover said:

I'm just speaking about cannabis, as that's what I took the thread topic to be.

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I think that's what the OP had intended the thread comparison to be as well, regular pot vs heroin. Synthetic cannabinoids are a different ball game altogether for a few different reasons.

They don't have a medicine for weed withdrawls like suboxen for a reason. It is all in your head, and the only thing that can fix that is time and benzos. If you start taking opiates for back pain, and get hooked, your back will hurt even if it doesnt anymore as a way of your body saying give me dope damnit. I qui cold turkey when I went to boot camp after 6 years of almost an ounce a day habbit ( thankfully i was the weed man so I didn't pay to smoke). Other thank not knowing what to do sober, video games are different, your clear headed and can breathe...) it's not the same as shooting up water and blood to give you a needle fix or doing cottons with lord knows whats in them to get a few microns of dormin or dope. It isn't even comparable. Noone has died from weed withdrawl, unlike heroin booze and benzos. Each person is different. But i doubt you would notice a weedsick other than damn i wanna get high

i smoke heavily for medical purposes, so when i run out, it pretty awful, but, i do catch myself heading home, thinking about watching a movie, playing guitar, blasting music etc. i get a smack of depression, and anxiety when i realize i wont be nestling in with my most favored flavor.

i dont believe its possible to build a physical tolerance, and that one becomes accustomed to a certain level in ones system. i smoke a lot, i just took one decent hit, psychologicaly, i am affected, but it want enough to fight inflammation, and other pain.
im not near as stressed as i was twenty minutes ago, but while influenced by stress, i started craving more.
i dont mind being dependent for chronic pain, but to be dependent to feel comfortable watching a film, guitar etc. is not so good.

in the past before i knew what was being inside my gutty wuts, when i took brakes, by choice or not, doing something creative, or opening a dictionary, or some educative or entertaining source when the cravings hit spread them out.
all the symptoms you described are general anxiety, caused by an external source ie. marijuana/cannabinoid depletion. taking benzos or the like is counterproductive, and far worse in the long run.

you need to distract your senses in a natural way, that will make it easier to distract your mind. if you may be smoking to self medicate,,, but if you were to hit a detox, they would most likely give you benzos, to help them, and you stay calm.

if these symptoms persisted, after a month or so, it would be much more solid ground to stand on to discover is an anxiety d/o is at play.
for me, when i feel distressed/touch of fear about being out psychologically, i make myself immerse into a topic im interested in, and after a while, i realize i forgot all about it.

be assured that all the physical symptoms you described are right off the list from G.A.D., and the best thing for fighting these symptoms, is not to fight them, see it for what it is, and distract yourself, by learning something new, going into nature, watch some intellectual stand-up, if you have a lawn go tend to it, ride the hell out of a bike, jog, lift weights, learn to make yummy chicken marsala, pm me if i started making any sense to you.

ps:
fuck a bunch of luck, you can depend on yourself for this, and gain some pride for doing so.

Carl Landrover said:

I'm just speaking about cannabis, as that's what I took the thread topic to be.

Last few years, I probably average around 0.5 gram a day or an 1/8th a week in the vaporizer. Somedays maybe more a gram, somedays maybe just a 0.2. Some weeks I might use heavy, some a lot lighter. A gram is like 5 or 6 bowls in the vaporizer, and I get a lot of hits out of a bowl (more than 20).

When I was smoking it was really easy to smoke 1-1.5 grams a day (or more). It got too expensive and I didn't like the effect the smoke gave me (tired/shot feeling, lungs hurt, smelled, stained teeth, etc.)

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Yeah, that kind of usage is extremely low. It varies by person, but I would imagine a cannabis addict who keeps upping their dosage/tolerance like an opioid addict would be smoking 5-10 grams a day after a few years.

hydroazuanacaine said:

^true dat.

^say what?


your WDs from weed cannot be horrible. even if you IV'd a cannaboid antagonist, they could not compare to real benzo WDs.

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Not worse, just different.

My weed WD's were horrible, I couldn't eat for 2 days, hot and cold flushes (10 days - fading over the time though), unable to get out of bed (1 day), or maintain human contact (13 days in and I still can't be comfortable around people), hallucinations (first 2 days were like a constant LSD high without the good parts), panic attacks(7 days - some still lingering here and there).

tony314 said:

They don't have a medicine for weed withdrawls like suboxen for a reason. It is all in your head, and the only thing that can fix that is time and benzos.

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Contradicted yourself there. They have clinics for weed detox where you check in for 5 days and they help and administer benzo's here in Australia. Too bad I didn't know until after. My GP seemed to think weed addiction isn't a serious problem.

Coolio said:

Yeah, that kind of usage is extremely low. It varies by person, but I would imagine a cannabis addict who keeps upping their dosage/tolerance like an opioid addict would be smoking 5-10 grams a day after a few years.

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Only took me a few months to get to 5g a day.