Opioids Your guy's opinions, are these 'withdrawal' symptoms?

I want the opinions of those more experienced than I. I am not opiate nieve, however I'm not a very habitual user. I make myself one, maybe two cups of pod tea on the weekends, never during the work week, and also I spread my cups of tea out at least two days apart. For example, if I make tea on Friday, the second cup doesn't come until Sunday, and more than likely it will simply be the rewash from Friday's cup. This has been a routine for about 2-3 months now. I could count the amount of time I've drank tea during the week on a half hand and never, ever two cups in two days of succession, and I wouldn't dream of two cups in the same day. Normal dosage for me is ~30g, which I beleive is a moderate dosage. Haven't popped a pill in several months, never used heroin, got IV hydromorphone in the hospital once, nearly a year ago, etc.. So all in all, I'd say my opiate usage and tolerance is relatively low-moderate.

Having said that, I'm noticing as of late, mid week (like tuesday-thursday) I have been getting fairly irritable, slightly anxious, I worry about things a little too much, I'm fatigued, unmotivated, runny nose, and the occasional mild cold sweats. All symptoms that could EASILY be explained by allergies, which is quite likely this time of year. I can't help but think this may be the very beginnings of developing dependence, and either mentally or physically. Mentally, I'm not in a state of mind much more than "Wow, I can't wait 'till Friday so I can dose up!". If I run out of pods, I'm never really in too much of a rush to order more, and have gone a few weeks without, so stopping seems to be not an issue. Physically, I'm not sure. These symptoms I'm having as of late, like I said could easily be allergies, or my body fighting off an illness. I'm wondering what experienced 'withdrawers' how they feel about my usage, the possibility of dependence, whether or not they feel this could be withdrawal symptoms, or if I'm just stupid. It's probably also worth mention that when I do dose on tea on the weekends, there is absolutely not a problem in the world. All anxiety and worry is flushed away and firewalled from my mind, not a pain in my body, no bothersome symptoms mentioned above, etc.. Either that could be the simple action of opiates, or it could be my body saying "Ahh, finally, that dose I've been needing."

Put it this way. If I didn't use opiates on the weekends, or didn't use any drugs at all, and I was feeling this way, I'd simply write off the physical symptoms as 'coming down with a cold' or something, and the mental symptoms (irritability, fatigue, anxiety) on the fact that I hate my current job and Seattle's current severe lack of sun.

Opinions?

Thank you in advance for the answers.

At that level of use you shouldn't be in withdrawls, at least not physical ones. My guess would be that it is caused by something else and you just notice it when you aren't doing pods. But tread carefully, alot of opiate addictions start medicating real symptoms. Sometimes even ones not really requiring medication at all.

I dont think you r going threw WDS off poppy tea that you drink on some days. if you were on a binge then ya. and you would know when your trully having withdrawls. its the flu times 100.

Seattle_Stranger said:

Normal dosage for me is ~30g, which I beleive is a moderate dosage.

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Just to put this in perspective:

As a daily user for many, many months, my dose is ~12-14g (4Tbs). So in my opinion, that is a large dose; double mine. Pod quality does vary though. Just sayin'.

And with the long half-life of pods, and your infrequent-yet-regular usage, you very well could be getting mild WD symptoms. Even at 1-2 doses per week, like I said, with the very long half-life, you might not be completely clearing out all opiates from your system before your next dose...

^its possible but I am thinking is *mostly*, if not all, psychological. You're starting to crave and when you crave you're going to somaticize to rationalize the necessity for pharmacological relief.

In your shoes I'd either quit or spread my doses out further. Your use is already regular and you're thinking about it when you're not using... If you're already getting uncomfortable without them there's nowhere to go but down.

Be careful you may be successfully treading water now but if you stay in the deep end long enough you'll get tired and start to sink...

Good advice fellas. I think I only have enough for a cup and a half left, so I will possibly use that up this weekend and just put the brakes on opiate usage for a while. Another thing I've been dealing with lately is anxiety and slight depression over the fact that over the past two years I've gone from never ever touching drugs, to smoking weed daily, and then daily, all day long, then trying new things like coke, then moving onto trying harder stuff like molly and oxy, playing with psychedelics, research chemicals, and even making routines out of drug use, to finally, where I currently am, thinking about drugs in one way or another on a daily basis, always craving to be high on something, falling victim to temptations all the time, rarely saying no, and now, trying to find strategic ways to get off drugs altogether and return to my normal life where the occasional smot poke would be a rarity, and a privilege. I never, ever could've imagined myself in this position 2+ years ago. I feel my career has slipped, even though I'm still doing rather well. I'm not in too deep of a hole, I know it could be SO much worse, but I'm staring into the hole, trying to keep my balance on the edge, trying to not fall in, and feeling anxious as all hell about said hole. I admit that I not addicted to a specific drug, but I think I'm somewhat addicted to drugs in general. The simple craving to be high all the time (even though I stop myself from doing so), the frequency I think about drugs, and even the thoughts of seeing other people happy and excited and thinking "I miss being able to get that happy and excited sober". I really do kinda miss my sober life. I feel drugs have opened many doors for me and have improved many aspects of my life, however they have closed a few doors as well. Luckily, none of those doors are locked and I think it's time to start closing the doors on the drugs and getting back to being excited and addicted to my career, my music, my art, my car, etc..

Ahh, like I said, I think too much. I will finish off these remaining pods this weekend and kiss opiates goodbye for a while, maybe even forever (wouldn't that be nice). I've had my fun with drugs, but I honestly feel it's getting near the time to turn the page and move on to the next chapter of my life, sans habitual drug use.

Seattle_Stranger said:

... Another thing I've been dealing with lately is anxiety and slight depression over the fact that over the past two years I've gone from never ever touching drugs, to smoking weed daily, and then daily, all day long ... return to my normal life where the occasional smot poke would be a rarity, and a privilege ...

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I have kinda bad anxiety (that's what the daily pods are for...) — weed makes the anxiety much worse, so I never do it anymore. Just wanted to reply to that part.

good luck being happy and healthy %)

the symptoms you describe are exactly what i would expect from a pod habit such as yours. 30 grams is quite a lot of pod, even though alkaloid levels in your pods might be lower than usual. due to the pod's long half-life you never allow the pod's alkaloids to leave your body completely, although it helps that you only use during the weekend.

i've had similar experiences after several months of sparse but habitual use (about 10-20g twice a week spread out): withdrawals consisting of minor physical symptoms like you describe and of quite pronounced depression-like mental symptoms, which you also describe. both faded away after a couple of weeks.

my opinion: stop drinking the tea for two weeks. see how you feel once the minor withdrawals clear out. compare it to the past 2-3 months. if you then decide that you want to go back to that, then at least you'll have had a little break to decrease your physical dependence.

i also notice from the tone of your posts that you really seem to like this pod tea. i could be wrong! but to me it looks like this definitely has the potential to escalate.


edit: i just saw your latest post. sounds like a plan.

Seattle_Stranger said:

I'm not in too deep of a hole, I know it could be SO much worse, but I'm staring into the hole, trying to keep my balance on the edge, trying to not fall in, and feeling anxious as all hell about said hole.

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Great way to put it!

As Freidrich Nietzsche said, "if you stare into an abyss long enough, the abyss stares back into you"

Balancing on the edge of that hole gives you a unique perspective into who you are and we all have the possibility to change that however we choose to within the confines of what we've been given (which generally still affords more freedom than we're willing to admit because that comes with so much responsibility!).

I suspect that hole isn't something you're staring into really, but something within and unless you find a way to address its cause and fill it, you'll keep pouring psychoactives in there in a futile attempt to allay that anxiety and escape from that which you'd rather not address.

I'm studying addictions counseling and have a little experience with these subjects, feel free to PM me if you'd ever like to discuss these things.

Take care.

dorkchop said:

I have kinda bad anxiety (that's what the daily pods are for...) — weed makes the anxiety much worse, so I never do it anymore. Just wanted to reply to that part.

good luck being happy and healthy %)

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You are extremely right and that's why I've stopped smoking weed during the week as well, and even when I do during the weekends it's very limited use, not all day anymore. I feel like this has helped diminish my anxiety problems (and other problems caused from habitual weed usage, like memory loss, difficulty focusing, etc..). Granted, I haven't been doing very well with that, smoking here and there during the week when friends offer. This is why I said I have trouble resisting temptations. However, taking into consideration what my hibits normally were for the longest time, as in wake up and smoke, smoke again, eat lunch, smoke again, bowl after bowl after bowl after bowl until I go to bed. Get up the next day, repeat. Simply smoking once a day helps me immensely. Going several days without smoking nearly produces a natural high in itself because I feel so much more alive!!

Like I was saying, I need to get a grasp on my life again and stop letting drugs be so damn significant to me. They're taking their mental toll (and now physical apparently) and as stated a few times above, I'm staring down the barrel of a gun.

I'll be about as cliche as imaginable right here, but maybe I should quit while I'm ahead...

Thank you all for the kind responses, and @Cane2theLeft, thank you for your offer, I may take you up on that!!

since pods last so long, i think it's rebound. they aren't like heroin where the high wears off and pretty soon you feel it

when i was first using pods, they lasted long enough in me to give me a little bit of rebound a few days later

since you didn't experience this before, yeah tolerance/dependence are building

there are ways to reduce its development, though the more obvious and sustainable solution is to use every *two* weeks

>>I suspect that hole isn't something you're staring into really, but something within and unless you find a way to address its cause and fill it, you'll keep pouring psychoactives in there in a futile attempt to allay that anxiety and escape from that which you'd rather not address.>>

i really think sometimes it's simply genetic/chemical. no way to tell

One of my biggest things is to not use drugs to cover up/solve problems because I know that would be the first step toward dependence. Sure, it's nice to come home from a bad day and dose up on something and watch your problems drift away, but then will eventually come a time where a person can't deal with any of life's real issues without the aid of substances. For example, I'm prescribed clonazepam for anxiety attacks, and I only use it when I feel anxious for an unexplainable reason. If I feel anxious about a fight with my gf, or something like that where I clearly know what's giving me the anxiety, I deal with it naturally.

I totally understand what you're saying though. Whether I want them to or not, substances cover up problems and it's hard not to notice how nice it is to not have any worries when I'm flyin' high. Then comes the whole self control thing where a person needs to understand how dangerous this really is and could be. I purely use drugs for fun, for recreation, but never ever to 'solve' a problem. And that's exactly where I'm at in my life. I'm trying to find other things to get hooked on other than drugs that bring me joy and happiness and excitement, just as it used to.

it sounds like this could be the begining of a habit, even if you're not physically addicted yet, so be carefull (sounds like your kind of realizing your at the point). I think you got what I hear a lot of junkys refer to as a chip. It's not a real habit per say, but if you keep pushing it, those symptoms are going to get a lot worse. I don't really think it's allergys, because you talk about depression and anxiety, which are the first sighns I get of withdrawal. Then it's teary eyes, stomach problems, sweating, hot flashes etc..

Yeah the long half life of pods can cause dependence when used regularly, even if you use ONLY on weekends or every couple of days. I remember when I was dependent on them way back in the beginning it would take like 48 hours before the withdrawals truly kicked in. Over time my body seemed to be a pro at burning through the morphine and I would get sick every 24 hours, even if I took a heroic dose the night before.

Be careful man, it sounds like you have the right idea trying to avoid dependence... It's really no fun at all. That slight anxiety and fatigue with depression and runny nose is only the start of something terrible. Wait until every cell in your body is practically screaming for a fix and your arms are constantly stretching while you yawn and writhe around unable to sleep. I dealt with that shit for 2 years. When I finally bit the bullet and quit it took 2 weeks for the withdrawals to clear up, no lie. I've been clean for a month now and I think I'm probably back to about 90% normal.

^ have fun when paws sets in. look forward to a good 6mo to 2yr or more, ohyeah! (i'm in the same boat)

Has your tea drinking affected you in other physical ways, most notably constipation? When I first started out, I was drinking poppy tea a few times a week (but mine was ghetto tea, made only from steeping water in store bought poppy seeds).

Still, it was enough to eventually give me my first ever case of opiate constipation! I didn't crap for 5 days and when I finally did, it was like trying to squeeze a duraflame log through the eye of a needle.

My point being that if your mild opiate intake is enough to cause one physical side effect, it might be causing others.

If you have to ask the question then you should be straight.

Your brain could definately become mentally "addicted" to that feeling at the end of the week that you enjoy so much, that sanctuary where every problem goes away and there isnt a care in the world.

a curse or a blessing?

well if you are able to control it (as you seem to be having no issues with), I would consider this more a therapeutic use of opiates than an addiction or problem TBH.


Indeed poppy tea has a very long half-life, so it could be causing a bit of physical addiction. is it messing with your life?

if it is it might be time to take it easy for a month or two and get the monkey off your back. then if you dose again you will feel even more amazing.

if it isnt too bad, dont worry about it

up to you

using that infrequently you should not be experiencing any withdrawl symptoms

I drank my last cup this weekend. My tolerance has gone up up up and even now a 35g cup doesn't really get me good and high, it's more of just a good mood lift. The rewash from that cup didn't even have any noticeable effects so I have decided it's time to put this drug on hold for a long time. I have no problem with that either.

Thank you all for the input and advice!