is this reality?

is the life you and I are living reality? is it possible we are living in a dream reality. or could it be we are the reality of someone else's dream. we are looking at ourselves through someone else's eyes. we think this whole "life" thing is real. Could we be some program on a computer made by some other reality...making us think that this is the true reality when in fact it is not. In our minds this is real...but in the minds of the true reality we are only figments of someone else's imagination. When I look at you am I really looking at you or am I looking at something that isn't there. You were put there to make me think that what I am thinking is real. What happens when the plug is pulled? Is that the end? Is this the beginning of the end of my or your reality?

a subset of reality is still reality!
if there were two distinct non-overlapping realities then nothing in one could affect the other.
a master cannot exist without a servant - if there is no servant there is no master! the reality of one is dependent of the reality of the other - therefore they share a reality - they just have different perceptions of that reality.
who can say? - the matter we move around daily may be individuals of a reality subset to ours.
[This message has been edited by kewl (edited 08 December 2000).]

Now tell me...
How do we know that we didn't all take a particular drug a long time ago and we're not still tripping as we speak? I mean, we've all taken substances that have changed our perception of time. Like we look at our watches and say, "Damn, it's only 4 AM? I woulda thought it was 7." Or the other way around. What if we wake up tomorrow to find that our whole, what we thought was, life actually lasted a whopping 5 hours during a trip? Would you ever take a drug like that again? Hmm...never thought about that.
[This message has been edited by gmni13 (edited 08 December 2000).]

stop thinking so hard your gonna have an anyorism (sp?)
Peace!
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You're bound to become a buddha if you practice
If water drips long enough even rocks wear through
It's not true thick skulls can't be pierced
People just imagine their minds are hard. - Shih-wu

ah, matrix-esque thoughts, no?
hmm. well, i think that the world is a physical reality. but, i believe that our senses are limited, and if only we could see better and hear better: radiowaves, magnetic forces etc. there is alot that we cannot detect via our own sight or hearing abilities.
but as for this being a trip: i dont think so. not at all.
wishful thinking.
does this kind of questioning actually stem from hopes that this life has a deeper meaning to it than what we already experience?
is life too dull for you?
need mystery and magic to give life greater meaning?
ive gone off on a tangent, i know, but i wish people could just enjoy whats on offer, pay attention to being a respecting, decent, kind and compassionate human being rather than trying to decipher whats out there.
i know, curiousity and questioning the status quo helps us in leaps and bounds to move forward scientifically.
conspiracy theorists, oh i couldnt give a rats ass about that. as long as i see people trying to bring about fairness in the laws, democracy, kindness, etc, then i can be content.
(maybe im a dull, boring complacent idiot).

2clear....perfect.....just like the guy on the Matrix....who said he'd rather go back into the matrix and lead a happy comfortable life rather than know what "reality" really was....as long as ur happy with yourself and at peace with as much of the world as u can that's all that matters.. )...to strive to be happy...u can get so twisted up by constantly thinking about "the meaning of life"...it's like a never endng spiral of one theory leading to another etc....it hs to end somewhere....

Do we have ANY compelling reason to believe this is not reality?
If it wasn't reality, would it matter?

I disagree, window licker... We are told by society to strive for our happiness, and classical philosophy (on which our modern ideals and political systems are based) states this as our mission. But we are always striving, there are always goals to achieve. 99% of the people you ask will tell you they're not where they want to be, yet.
I think it's when people blind themselves to truth and meaning, and become numb with social anesthetics, that misery and pain are inevitable. People tend to want to keep their minds busy with the day to day hustle toward some end...happiness, I guess... and avoid looking at what this world really offers us.
Is this reality? A great question that we shouldn't be afraid to ponder.

tranqueelo - wouldnt the question be - are we maximizing reality to the limits of our physicality?
this is different than does our physicality exist in reality.

Kewl- that's a good point, but I think that first question mighht be frased dangerously. What are our physical limitations? Don't we impose them on ourselves? When you try to decipher a reality within the bounds of any limitations, I think you're already defeating the purpose - you are imposing a conditioned/taught prejudice.
Does our physicality exist in reality? I guess this was the topic that started this string and I got off topic abit. Are we agreeing that reality is an absolute? I do believe that we exist in the material sense, to the extent that I can reach out and touch my laptop, but my reality is different from yours and everyone else's.

of course your reality is different to anyone elses: abstract reality, ie down to perspective of life, is relative and subjective.
the realm of the mind is a whole new argument for is reality real.
the experiences we have throughout life form our views and perspectives on life. no ones experiences correlate exactly to anyone elses.
but: it is still real to each of us : those chemical reactions in our minds do occur and shoot across synapses, creating new patterns of thought etc.
dont know where ive gone with this, dont know if ive gotten anywhere at all! thought i had a new point to press home, but seem to have lost it.........!!!!!!!!!!!

ah yes: what i was trying to say was.........
ebven the seemingly intangible (thoughts/emotionsetc) is actually tangible. chemical and biological happenings in our brains our physical.
and i believe that we have so far to go in neurology .......................just think what we could know about our grey matter in 50 years time, and what we could learn to do with it..........

PERCEPTION IS REALITY.
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*We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.*

Flower - i disagree.
perception is an interpretation of reality.
Have you ever just set back and watched a situation unfold - reading the body language - facial expressions - ect. of those involved in the situation?
assume the situation unfolds in reality - at any point and time - the situation is one thing - everyone interprets the situation (you included) - via their perceptions - then act to change the situation (making the situation something slightly different).
as you watch the people involved - you realize that past experience - emotional state - mental capabilities - ect. influence the way people percieve and act.
by this i assume, from your statement, you assert that everyone is in a different reality - and that all commonality is coincedental.

No, not at all. I'm not saying your perception DETERMINES reality - I'm saying reality is going on, but how you perceives it makes it uniquely your own as well.
Take your own example: "assume the situation unfolds in reality - at any point and time - the situation is one thing - everyone interprets the situation (you included) - via their perceptions - then act to change the situation (making the situation something slightly different)."
The situation unfolds regardless, but everyone views it slightly differently based on thier perception.
"as you watch the people involved - you realize that past experience - emotional state - mental capabilities - ect. influence the way people percieve and act."
This is more of a question of, well where does perception come from? Your perception is defined by the all of you - yes, every past expereince, emotion, and everything about you makes up your perception, with which you then interpret your reality.
And furthermore, your perception of reality is really all that matters - because if you percieve it as being a certain way (regardless of whether that is "reality" or not) it BECOMES reality for you...
[This message has been edited by Flower (edited 10 December 2000).]

"And furthermore, your perception of reality is really all that matters - because if you percieve it as being a certain way (regardless of whether that is "reality" or not) it BECOMES reality for you..."
Well, this is true to the extent that you create your own inner reality. But you'll remember the roadrunner & coyote cartoons where the cloud disappears below coyote's feet & he sees he's not standing on anything & falls.
Subjective interpretations of reality can only go so far. Then reality will pull you down to earth, so to speak.
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Trance and Dance: the enlightened path to Trancendence.

but even you refer to "something" that is percieved.
i am saying this ever changing "something" is reality - and it includes our physicality right down to our chemical composition and energy state. everyones perception is a part of reality.
what your original post ("PERCEPTION IS REALITY") says to me is - there is no "something" its just you generating your world. (to which i disagree)
from your next post - "we cant act on any reality other than the reality we perceive"
and from this concluding that the reality that we percieve is the only reality that matters to us. (to this a agree in part - i belive understanding that there is a reality greater than the one we percieve leads us to grow to incorperate aspects of that reality into our perception)

"what your original post ("PERCEPTION IS REALITY") says to me is - there is no "something" its just you generating your world. (to which i disagree)"
I'm not saying that at all. I don't feel that you generate your own reality, merely that you percieve the one in which you are in in your own unique way.

Flower - i do understand that from your second post (and i am definitely not attacking you).
to me - when you say you did not mean what i thought you meant - you are saying that your first post did not accurately describe your position.
all i am doing is trying to clarify your meaning...
[This message has been edited by kewl (edited 11 December 2000).]

I do realize that by making just a blanket statement as I did was leaving much open to interpretation, so I will try to clarify my thoughts here:
There is obviously a "something" in which we are all experiencing - a socially negotiated collective delusion (definition courtesy of Fox), or a collective "hunch" that we call REALITY.
How we each in turn react to and function within that reality is completely subjective.
By our perception I mean: awareness, observation, views, opinions – all the things that are part of us that we use when functioning in and reacting to “reality.” Reality may be constant, but your perception of it can change, effectively changing the way you view reality (thus seeming to change reality itself).
It is for this reason that I said “reality is perception.” Meaning, regardless of the nature of the reality that we are in, essentially our perception of it is really all that matters – change your perception, change your reality…