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MeDieViL
11-05-2010, 17:50
http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://talk.hyperreal.info/thread/27659

This one looks interesting, has its amphetamine brother been tested for toxiticy? Can we expect a hideous toxicology profile like meph or could this one be better?

Yes, as I wrote, tested 4-EMC. Twice. The first time at a dose of 200mg orally, as usual after this type of ketones, the effects appeared after about 20-30 minutes. Euphoria was huge, felt it was too psychedelic aspects of which had great Joy. The nature of the euphoria is a bit different than the mefedronie. Clearly feel that serotonin is released. Sam is a very intense euphoria. After about 3 h and began to descend back (something a la the mountains and valleys). Then sniff and history similar to mefedronowej session. The second time I started from 100mg siffem. Similar to oral administration, the fact that more spidująco. The overall impact on the heart would describe as less than the mefedron. However, these groups of compounds will always rode on the circulatory system. Such is the price for euphoria. After about 3 h and began waving at oralnym administration and began the normal procedure for tightening the resistance (or pressure too high, or the end product). Mefedron against the effects of 4-EMC in my case appeared to be pale. When it comes to psychedelic, it clearly feel the aspect and enhances it with a dose of. It is very similar to that which can sometimes be achieved mefedronem, but more "friendly" and felt it clearly regardless of the dose. Congress ... heh ...

Phener
11-05-2010, 17:58
Shame: :\

a) Compound is definately covered by new cathinone laws

b) Person trying said compound can't describe things in any legible or readable format

MeDieViL
11-05-2010, 17:59
Shame: :\

a) Compound is definately covered by new cathinone laws

b) Person trying said compound can't describe things in any legible or readable format
Well, this isnt a local UK forum:).

That trip report was a rough translation with google translate, it was posted in polish.

Phener
11-05-2010, 18:11
^fair enough:)

Interesting though it is suggestive of a more psychadelic cathinone, none so far have been reported - was kind of waiting for one of the analogues of the PIHKAL-esque compounds to turn up as a cathinone psycadelic.

..but yeah wouldn't go near it with a long pole myself, what with mephedrones potential side effects adding an ethyl, hmmm need proof

Torabora
11-05-2010, 19:30
since im not from uk but from a country where meph is banned this would be very interesting :) I only took meph a few times but really enjoyed it (was never doing more then ~300mg) If this really has lower toxicity it would be even better, light psychadelic component is good too ^^

but well its only a post from a user who can not really say anthing about metabolism and such.
If it is also metabolized to the "ephedrine" (hydroxilation of the beta keto) would it still be a problem like with mephe? or is it "less" toxic because of the ethylchain?

fastandbulbous
11-05-2010, 21:16
4-alkyls are going to be toxic because a primary metabolic route is para-hydroxylation of the drug. How toxic compard with meph is anybody's guess

theotherside
11-05-2010, 21:26
Any other reports on this one....couldn't find any using any major search engines other than the one the OP posted. A more psychedelic version of mephedrone, toxicity aside, sounds like a dream I had the other night :)

any major dude
12-05-2010, 02:20
i'd wondered about this myself a time or two before, given that there's butylone, buphedrone, bk-MDMA, bk-MDEA (though not nearly as common as other cathinones), I'd think it would be a logical chemical to produce, though i've never seen it offered or a report. There is 2-ethyl cathinone, which is mostly a NE reuptake inhibitor IIRC, doubtful one could extrapolate much about 4-EMC from that info though. Eeeow?

Jamshyd
12-05-2010, 02:53
So what are all these euro kids going to call this one? "Eph"? 8)

melange
12-05-2010, 06:13
mmmm more ketone analogues - can't wait 8)


we all need the compulsive dopamine masturbation that causes people to constantly redose and make countries tighten their restrictions on drugs that responsible people can make use of and idiots abuse, if anything


all these fucking ketones are going to cause are another Operation Web Tryp, at least in the USA

adder
12-05-2010, 06:40
That trip report was a rough translation with google translate, it was posted in polish.

Where's the original text? Yes, Poland is a leading country in Central and Eastern Europe in producing amphetamines and shitty analogs now.

theotherside
12-05-2010, 07:53
mmmm more ketone analogues - can't wait 8)


we all need the compulsive dopamine masturbation that causes people to constantly redose and make countries tighten their restrictions on drugs that responsible people can make use of and idiots abuse, if anything


all these fucking ketones are going to cause are another Operation Web Tryp, at least in the USA

I don't think these ketones will cause another web tryp here in the states...they simply are not big enough. All my friends are happy with their tabs/meth/coke/opiates...not much to worry about as far as the DEA is concerned.

adder
12-05-2010, 08:33
Firstly, don't take seriously everything that people write there. That forum is full of liars and idiots who really want to become someone's bitches. Anyway, this is what that guy wrote (sometimes even I couldn't understand him with Polish being my first language, they, as a society, developed some kind of language of people who can't write properly in Polish...).


Yes, as I wrote, I had tested 4-EMC. Twice. At the first time 200mg orally, as it usually is after such ketones, the effects appeared after about 20-30 minutes. Euphoria was huge, I felt psychedelic aspects too which was great fun for me. The character of euphoria is a bit different to mephedrone's. It's clearly felt that serotonin is secreted. Euphoria itself is very intense. After about 3 hours it started to come down and come back (something like mountains and valleys). Afterwards a sniff [another one] and it was similar to mephedrone session. At the second time I started with 100mg intranasally. It was similar to oral ROA but more speedy. I would describe the general impact on the heart less [pronounced] than mephedrone's. Nevertheless these groups of substances will always fuck with circulatory system. That's the price for the euphoria. After about 3 hours it was as after taking it orally [mountains & valleys] and the plain proceeding with finishing stuff started ([total bullshit]). Mephedrone against a background of 4-EMC was weak in my book. Concerning psychedelic effects they're felt clearly and it escalates with dosage. They're very similar to those that can be achieved sometimes with mephedrone, however, they are more "friendly" and I felt them clearly no matter the dose. The comedown... heh...

A florid language of his in red =D

ebola?
12-05-2010, 20:55
So what are all these euro kids going to call this one? "Eph"?

Hahah...that's taken, for methcathinone, right? I guess since said 'kids' already call mephedrone mcat (or 'mkatz'), it won't matter. ;)

ebola

any major dude
12-05-2010, 22:26
mmmm more ketone analogues - can't wait 8)


we all need the compulsive dopamine masturbation that causes people to constantly redose and make countries tighten their restrictions on drugs that responsible people can make use of and idiots abuse, if anything


all these fucking ketones are going to cause are another Operation Web Tryp, at least in the USA

most people i know (in the states) don't even know what mephedrone is unless they heard about it from either me or the BBC World Service when it airs on NPR. Don't know anyone who's tried mephedrone and only one other person besides myself who's tried methylone. And i know a bunch of folks who are into some weird drugs.

adder
13-05-2010, 12:57
I thought 'said' kids already called methcathinone "methcat". And in my country I know people call it "cat" (in Polish of course which is "kot").


most people i know (in the states) don't even know what mephedrone is unless they heard about it from either me or the BBC World Service when it airs on NPR. Don't know anyone who's tried mephedrone and only one other person besides myself who's tried methylone. And i know a bunch of folks who are into some weird drugs.

See? I told you Poland is a major amphetamines producer and exporter for neighboring countries in Central and Eastern Europe (i.e. Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine etc.). Well, nothing to proud of... But mephedrone is widely sold via different ways here. You can go and buy it personally from dicks who don't even know what it exactly is, you can buy it on-line. Obama used to say "Yes, we can". There's a saying in Poland that's older than this "A Pole can [do any fucking thing". :D

In the mentioned thread on that Polish forum they later discuss that 4-ethylmethcathinone is available in Poland exclusively at the time =D. Later someone provides an info it's been available since February somewhere else... And I don't know for what reason the idiot who started that topic called it "4'-etylometkatynon". I mean, what that " ' " after 4... Great chemists are there, trust me. %)

Torabora
25-05-2010, 11:50
hm I will get a free sample of this, this week I hope its enough to titrate it in 5mg steps ^^

does anybody have more trip reports or tested it himself?

adder
25-05-2010, 20:01
I can translate more messages from that board for you but I take no responsibility of its truthfulness.

My comments in red.


Farmacokinetics is similar to mephedrone's. I would even say that because of the longer lipophilic chain, it gets through blood-brain barier.

In my opinion bullshit, guy seems to have little understanding of chemistry, in case of 2C-D and 2C-E - yes, 2C-E is more potent but if we followed it that way then 4-EMC should be like 3 times as potent as 4-MMC. And as the above translated report suggests, it's not.

Secondly, farmacodynamic simulation showed the substance binds to 5-HT{2B} about 3 times as much as mephedrone.

No sourcing so it's not trustful for me. Besides it's not 5-HT{2B} that one really wants a compound to bind to with high affinity (its activation causes anxiety and vasoconstriction, this guy's lost it.

Thirdly, laboratory rodents in "Blue Country" liked it.

No idea what he's talking about. I don't really follow Polish scene of RCs. I know some sites that sell different RCs but they're all legal of course so they're nothing special, and nothing like Benzo Fury even showed up. I had 6-APDB from my source.

What its action on dopamine is I don't know. I supposed it's similar to mephedrone.

Yeah, I could make such an assumption as well without knowing anything.


First clinical trial showed that 4-EMC will have a more addicting potential than mephedrone.

Clinical trials? I haven't seen any either for 4-MMC or 4-EMC. And the guy doesn't have its own lab for sure.


Yes, as I wrote, I had tested 4-EMC. Twice. At the first time 200mg orally, as it usually is after such ketones, the effects appeared after about 20-30 minutes. Euphoria was huge, I felt psychedelic aspects too which was great fun for me. The character of euphoria is a bit different to mephedrone's. It's clearly felt that serotonin is secreted. Euphoria itself is very intense. After about 3 hours it started to come down and come back (something like mountains and valleys). Afterwards a sniff [another one] and it was similar to mephedrone session. At the second time I started with 100mg intranasally. It was similar to oral ROA but more speedy. I would describe the general impact on the heart less [pronounced] than mephedrone's. Nevertheless these groups of substances will always fuck with circulatory system. That's the price for the euphoria. After about 3 hours it was as after taking it orally [mountains & valleys] and the plain proceeding with finishing stuff started ([total bullshit]). Mephedrone against a background of 4-EMC was weak in my book. Concerning psychedelic effects they're felt clearly and it escalates with dosage. They're very similar to those that can be achieved sometimes with mephedrone, however, they are more "friendly" and I felt them clearly no matter the dose. The comedown... heh...

This one is above.




(about comedown, someone asked about it) Mix of methylone's and mephedrone's

By methylone's he means bk-MDMA of course. This also looks suspicious to me. It might even be that he didn't take it. Maybe even he didn't have a chance to try bk-MDMA.


Methylone has no comedown practically after "reasonable doses"


From what I know, one of the more important Polish RC shops had in mind putting 4-EMC into its offer list at the end of May but this is an unofficial information and I don't know if they will.
The shop has "lab" in the name.

If he's not lying then some guy nicknamed Reez has extraordinary contacts... By the way if it's so top secret why he mentions it (everyone there knows which shop it is). There's a lot of bullshit on that forum. They often "race" who got something first. I left the place long time ago (actually I left an IRC channel, I didn't visit these forums for even longer), they started to get at me because they were jealous as I'd great contacts with heroin wholesaler and were friends with him or because I'd limitless access to cheap morphine 20mg/ml ampules... I think they didn't get the whole thing and really there was nothing to be jealous about (one guy could buy heroin for almost 200% my price) as heroin or morphine are simple way to trouble, big trouble eventually and you can't bail yourself out of it. Kid-mentality people. And I would do many things now to change my life in the past (not only drug addiction).

Well, the thread has now 12 pages. But there aren't many posts with some sense. Anyway their forums have just went down. =D This really became stupid forums. Long long time ago there were some people I even met in person. But now I'm translating and quoting people whose nicks I see for the first time.

ingo_1978
26-05-2010, 19:39
I just received a free sample of this in the post. It is a yellowish powder, tastes disgusting and burns like hell. 100mg produces some euphoria, mild stimulation and slighty erotic. Feels similar to 4-MMC, probably indistigushable in higher doses but does seem to have less stimulation. With 4-MMC I can't stop tapping feet not getting this but it was a low dose.

FlippingTop
27-05-2010, 13:47
I just received a free sample of this in the post. It is a yellowish powder, tastes disgusting and burns like hell. 100mg produces some euphoria, mild stimulation and slighty erotic. Feels similar to 4-MMC, probably indistigushable in higher doses but does seem to have less stimulation. With 4-MMC I can't stop tapping feet not getting this but it was a low dose.

Probably not even what it says it is mate :\

ingo_1978
27-05-2010, 19:39
It is definatly something very similar to mephedrone... It's got the same smell to it like when it first came out... I tried higher dosages and it was very like mephedrone but slightly less stimulation with less desire to redose.

supra79
25-08-2010, 14:28
According to other forums, this compound seems not to be very active applied insufflated. I noticed, simons reagent reacts blueish (like methylone) with 4-EMC. Could this be a hint that this compound should best be used orally (~200mg) similar to Methylone?

@ingo_1978: what was your ROA?

Torabora
25-08-2010, 18:05
yea I had this too snorted and burned like fuck arround 80-90mg per line.
Felt very like meph, less stimualtion and the mephedrone like visuals where a bit more intense and I must say I was a lot less wasted the next day so my impression was that it is not so harsh on the body like 4-mmc was.

eyetranceend
25-08-2010, 21:44
I've reluctantly tried methyl-N-ethylcathinone.

75mg intranasal bioassay earlier produced a short period (roughly 40 minutes) of mild euphoria with only a slight "rush." I felt the urge to speak freely, and at length about a great deal of nothing important. I felt mildly empathetic and stimulated for about one hour. Side effects included some trisma, elevated heartbeat, blurred vision, and sweaty palms -- all of these side effects had tapered off within an hour except for the elevated heartbeat. There was a strong desire to redose.

Since that trial, a close friend insufflated exactly 100mg. He seems to be quite a bit more fond of it then I was, though he didn't exactly look like he had even taken a stimulating substance. Perhaps I will sample a 150mg oral dosage for a quality comparison.

I can't imagine there's going to be much difference in these spin-off compounds at this point.

tamtoot
25-08-2010, 22:50
4-ethylmethcat and 4-mehylethcat are different compounds. The first one has diminished stimulant effects, while second much less potent.

egor
27-08-2010, 08:12
Enough with the goddamn mephedrone replacements already...

adder
27-08-2010, 11:47
It's finally illegal in my country. Anyway, the system here is stupid as hell, even Calea Zacatechichi falls into the act... So while they really made 4-methylmethcathinone illegal, there's no act here that would ban any analogs so 4-ethylmethcathinone and 4-methyl-N-ethylcathinone are legal. The other odd thing is while DOB is banned, DOI isn't... 2C-I is banned but 2C-B isn't. Now this is funny. Mephedrone is going to find its way to black market (I don't know for whatever reason as it was 'good' when it was legal because it was a much worse substitute for banned stimulants, now it's probably going to be much much less pure, mixed with shit even more and more expensive than plain amphetamine). This never ends.

Torabora
27-08-2010, 17:25
I did GC/MS for my 4-EMC here are the results as it wasnt sure that the sample I got was indeed 4-EMC or maybe 4-MEC or even cut mephedrone:


I dissolved arround 2-3 mg in 500uL of water, took 50uL, added 2 drops 5% NaOH and extracted with 200uL of Diethylether and put that inside our GC/MS (60-260C in 19 mins):

GC Spectra
http://i33.tinypic.com/156zond.jpg

The GC spectra showing a quiet pure substance which is a bit strange because the powder looked a bit unpure (yellow color) but since I extracted it, it could be that the impurities are not soluable in a unpolar solvent so the remained behind and werent analysed.

MS Data:
http://i37.tinypic.com/scuf7b.jpg

As you can see the immoniumion has a mass of 58u which is typical for canthiones and shows also that there where only one methyl group on the amine so it wasnt 4-MEC

The peak with 133u is the ethylbenzoylcation showing that there was a ethylgroup on the ring so it is very likely that it was indeed 4-EMC the other peak at 103u also supports this thesis because of ethyl fragmentation and formation of the benzoylcation (so 3,4dmmc is also very unlikely)

What I cannot explain is the shoulder on the gc spectra, fragmentation results are very similar:

http://i33.tinypic.com/vglhkj.jpg

Im not a master at reading MS fragmentations so maybe I did a mistake? pls correct me if I got something wrong or if you have different interpretation for the data I obtained.

Azeogen
23-10-2010, 05:35
iv tried 4-ethylmethcathinone and it is a waste of money. oral doses of up to 300+mg have almost no effect other than possibly a mild(and short lived) anti-depressant. attempting to vaporize it just breaks it down into a sweet smelling amber oil. its pretty harsh too. snorting it is insanely painful and again, nothing more than an anti-depressant effect. seeing as it lacks any stimulant effects , iv tried using it in combination with methamphetamine- both orally and insuflated and this still does not produce anything beyond a more noticeable anti-depressant effect. dont waste your time with this chemical. i am almost suspicious that i was scammed,as im not sure if the vender is reputable- BUT, the powder smells and tastes exactly like mephedrone, which i have extensive experience with. the stuff doesn't even warrant a trip report. anyone have any idea why this is? structurally it looks like a chemical that ought' to be active. is there a real reference out there for its neurotransmitter release profile?

Repulse
05-11-2010, 04:26
I did GC/MS for my 4-EMC here are the results as it wasnt sure that the sample I got was indeed 4-EMC or maybe 4-MEC or even cut mephedrone:


I dissolved arround 2-3 mg in 500uL of water, took 50uL, added 2 drops 5% NaOH and extracted with 200uL of Diethylether and put that inside our GC/MS (60-260C in 19 mins):

GC Spectra
http://i33.tinypic.com/156zond.jpg

The GC spectra showing a quiet pure substance which is a bit strange because the powder looked a bit unpure (yellow color) but since I extracted it, it could be that the impurities are not soluable in a unpolar solvent so the remained behind and werent analysed.

MS Data:
http://i37.tinypic.com/scuf7b.jpg

As you can see the immoniumion has a mass of 58u which is typical for canthiones and shows also that there where only one methyl group on the amine so it wasnt 4-MEC

The peak with 133u is the ethylbenzoylcation showing that there was a ethylgroup on the ring so it is very likely that it was indeed 4-EMC the other peak at 103u also supports this thesis because of ethyl fragmentation and formation of the benzoylcation (so 3,4dmmc is also very unlikely)

What I cannot explain is the shoulder on the gc spectra, fragmentation results are very similar:

http://i33.tinypic.com/vglhkj.jpg

Im not a master at reading MS fragmentations so maybe I did a mistake? pls correct me if I got something wrong or if you have different interpretation for the data I obtained.

Very informational and useful post, thanks a lot.

Your assumptions/readings look correct to me - but truth be told, I'm no master of this art, either.

I might be dipping my toes in some 4-MEC soon - carefully. I will try and post my results.

ebola?
05-11-2010, 05:18
4-ethyl-methcathinone should prove valuable if and only if:
1. It confers euphoria similar to mephedrone's (even if comparable solely in terms of quantitative level of euphoria and/or empathogenesis).
and
2. 4-ethyl-beta-hydroxy-methcathinone isn't as adrenergic and/or enduring as mephedrone's metabolites.
....
now, 4-methyl-ethcathinone might be another beast entirely.
..
What does SAR suggest about all this?

ebola

Azeogen
10-11-2010, 13:45
the euphoria is non-existant.

adder
10-11-2010, 21:53
What kind of euphoria is non-existent? Amphetamine-like or mephedrone-like? N-ethylamphetamine does work and N-ethylcathinone works as well. So I guess 4-MEC is one of the first drugs for meph-heads to be great in their opinion...

lostinshell
11-11-2010, 09:13
4-MEC isnt good at all, tryed once and it has been a really stupid experience, similar to mephedrone but without all the good things, it was a confused high, morishness like meph, less euphoria, really useless chemical in my opinion.
(it was a sticky powder, maybe crystals are better because of less impurities inside..)
I dont know about 4-EMC, maybe is better..

Torabora
11-11-2010, 18:28
4-EMC was also a lot less euphoric then mephedrone but also gave me this confused high and morishness feeling but it was a bit more like meph in comparison how 4-MEC felt to me but nothing you want to take more often.

I wonder how 3-Me-MCat would be like looking at 3-FMC which is quiet nice or how 3-F-4-MMC would be.

adder
12-11-2010, 12:45
3-methylmethcathinone doesn't really compare much to mephedrone. The ratio serotonin:dopamine and serotonin:noradrenaline is greater to serotonin advantage. I mean, while amphetamine or methamphetamine block DAT and NAT strongly and block SERT much less, mephedrone behaves more like its properties for blocking DAT and SERT are closer (not that I'm actually talking about affinity, just ratios). 3-methylmethcathinone is even more of SERT blocker. For some mephedrone fans it may be worthless as they may find mephedrone's ratio perfect. Well, me myself - I don't like all these 3- or 4-substituted cathinones (don't count in bk-MDMA, as it's totally a different thing, not a dirty speedy chemical like mephedrone for me).

BTW: Christ, I can't really translate "morishness" into my language in one word... It means 'making urge to take more', right (more or less, you know what I mean, you want more after you're done)? I checked a lot of dictionaries and there is no entry for morishness. Where is it from? British, American, Canadian?

lostinshell
12-11-2010, 14:49
adder so you mean that 3mmc would be less speedy? maybe similar to methylone?
yes morishness is right, something like addiction but while using the substance..
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=morish
(dont know from where it comes from but it's a useful word)

ebola?
12-11-2010, 17:03
K-guise:
1. Is part of the ill fate of the beta-ketones the necessity of beginning with methcathinone as a skeleton? Please refer to how 4-fluoro-meth seems way worse than 4-fluoro-amp.
2. Shouldn't mephedrone already optimize preferential 5ht release (being relatively even for the monoamines, among bk-methcathinones, if we need to guess)? I mean, maybe simultaneous 3 and 4 substitutions would prove even superior (see methylone), but I'm more ignorant of the SAR there. Do we have receptor affinities for various non bk amp analogues?
3. Why are vendors so fucking fixated on the bk substitution. I mean, really... :P

ebola

lostinshell
12-11-2010, 18:09
I think that producers likes methcathinone skeleton because the production cost is really cheap, maybe i'm wrong, i'm not so an expert and my english isnt so good, anyway 4-fa is good, but not as good as mephedrone in my opinion, i tryed both and 4-fa is better for the health no comedown, mephedrone was more kicking ass high, but really bad for body and mind.
I just hope that something changes and that the vendors stop selling all this shit like jgg, mdai, mdat, b2 etc. They are only dangerous because nobody knows what they have inside and they make too much confusion.

Phener
13-11-2010, 15:43
cathinone is not a stable compound so 4F-C would not work

ebola?
13-11-2010, 18:58
correct. And the synthetic procedures necessary to produce salts of non n-subbed cathinones with stability necessary to even make it through the synthesis are pretty tough/convoluted.

Andy

ebola?
13-11-2010, 19:19
correct. And the synthetic procedures necessary to produce salts of non n-subbed cathinones with stability necessary to even make it through the synthesis are pretty tough/convoluted.

Andy

adder
14-11-2010, 17:36
adder so you mean that 3mmc would be less speedy? maybe similar to methylone?
yes morishness is right, something like addiction but while using the substance..
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=morish
(dont know from where it comes from but it's a useful word)

No, not similar to methylone or MDMA at all. It's a different story really.

Methamphetamine uptakes blocking ratios are as such: NAT : DAT is 1:2.35 and NAT:SERT is 1:44.5 - it's easily seen methamphetamine does very little on SERT compared to DAT, similar ratios are for releasing properties of methamphetamine, but impact on 5HT is even less).

Mephedrone's ratio NAT:SERT is far better than 1 to 44.5 so serotonin effects are more pronounced and play a much bigger role in subjective effects of drug.

Now, 3-methylmethcathinone is even a better releaser and blocker of SERT to such an extent that dopamine and noradrenaline effects are "interrupted". So you most likely end up with some kind of speedy drug but with dopamine effects overwhelmed by serotonin effects and that means less abuse probability as in the whole series of amphetamines, the reward path is the most important concerning euphoria from any drug. And this also applies to cathinones as they're analogs of amphetamine.

These aren't my assumptions on activity. For methamphetamine blocking properties, check:
Rothman, et al. "Amphetamine-Type Central Nervous System Potently than they Release Dopamine and Serotonin."

I don't have any sources on how modifications at 3. position affect effects but it's widely known that compounds with some substitutent at this position are prone to cause more serotonin in synapses (be it via phosphorylating SERT or acting as a releaser).

I guess, 4-methylmethcathinone hit the right spot for some and that's why mephedrone was so popular (but its popularity also came from its legality and I guess that's even a more important factor here - teens with no access to amph/meth/coke could buy a real drug legally so the fact it was inferior didn't play such a big role).

Now, bk-MDMA and MDMA both differ in pharmacodynamics to straight stimulant amphetamines (including cathinones). They release DA, NA, and 5HT, they also act on a couple of receptors that make them entheogens (among others there's 5HT{2A} receptor activated by MDMA), and they cause a lot of hormones release.

So to recap it all, in terms of pharmacodynamics (as far as we know now, still little is actually known about this compound, subjective effects also add to conclusions a lot) mephedrone is much closer to plain amphetamine than MDMA (well, bk-MDMA and MDMA actions are different also because of different ratios, bk-MDMA is a weaker releaser of serotonin than MDMA, that's why some say it doesn't have that "magic" of MDMA).

/navarone/
14-11-2010, 18:58
Now why would this be any better than para-methyl/ethyl-methamphetamine?

1) Less metabolically stable, the keto group would be wuickly converted into a hydroxy.
2) Still some BBB crossing issues even if far less than methcathinone.
3) Probably has a much higher serotonergic activity than mephedrone but still the unconvenient effects of most beta-ketos.

IMO this could turn out to be a riskier mephedrone analogue.

I wonder why da hell has no beta methoxy analogue ever appeared in the designer drug market.

literate
14-11-2010, 19:38
I wonder why da hell has no beta methoxy analogue ever appeared in the designer drug market.

Come up with a super facile synthesis of beta-methoxy amphetamines and they could appear.

lostinshell
14-11-2010, 20:50
adder, you really know a lot of things, i envy you!

nuke
14-11-2010, 21:51
The peak with 133u is the ethylbenzoylcation showing that there was a ethylgroup on the ring so it is very likely that it was indeed 4-EMC the other peak at 103u also supports this thesis because of ethyl fragmentation and formation of the benzoylcation (so 3,4dmmc is also very unlikely)

What I cannot explain is the shoulder on the gc spectra, fragmentation results are very similar:

Im not a master at reading MS fragmentations so maybe I did a mistake? pls correct me if I got something wrong or if you have different interpretation for the data I obtained.

A side reaction from one of the most common and cheapest ways to make mephedrone (that I know of) is the formation of the methylated beta-imine (from addition of methylamine to a 4-substituted alpha-bromo acetophenone). The name for the side-product in this case would be 2-(4-Ethylphenyl)-N-methyl-2-(methylimino)ethanamine. Parent fragment should be at 189, which shows up on your spectra. I think the peak at 146 is the (4-Ethylphenyl)(methylimino)methylium fragment, while the 160 peak refers to the 2-(4-Ethylphenyl)-2-(methylimino)ethylium fragment. The conjugated imine makes sense for discoloration of the compound, since it's probably fairly energetic. If this is the case, the shoulder seems a little large and you may have a lot of impurity present, I think the yields for this reaction are usually about 70% with a primary amine.

edit: First compound is wrong, forgot the alpha-methyl, but the other ones may yet be correct. Therefore, not sure what the 189 peak is

/navarone/
15-11-2010, 02:14
Come up with a super facile synthesis of beta-methoxy amphetamines and they could appear.

Well phemetrazine has been synthetized hasn't it? And I'm pretty sure it didn't start with morpholine.
There is the Williamson ether synthesis that if planned wisely could give good yields.

literate
15-11-2010, 19:35
4-methylmethamphetamine is reportedly very hard on the mind. It surfaced in Moscow a few years ago, where it was blamed on several users' suicides.

As for beta-methoxy amphetamines, idk. The closest report I have found is BOB (beta-methoxy 2cb), from PiHKAL: "For whatever reason, this compound left me in a sociopathic snit. All in all, pretty negative."

Torabora
15-11-2010, 19:40
@nuke yes I think you are right that this could be a impurity I think the shoulder could maybe come from a reaction taking place in the injector (cant remeber on what temp it was set but 200C+ for sure) because such a large ammount of impurities would be very high for something sold as a RC but yes who knows would be very scary though.