opiates for pain

Yeah it doesn't feel at all recreational, but my doctor was fairly emphatic about not stopping and starting it, so I'm not sure if just skipping a dose whenever I want to take something else is a good idea. I think if I just lower my usual opiate dose a bit I'll be fine, and hopefully they'll have some syngergy when it comes to helping with pain.

That part about stimulants does sound a little worrying, I'll do some further reading I think. Been off the gear lately anyway, so it's not an immediate concern.

i've been on it for around 6 months or so now and have had no problems skipping doses at any time and have had no addictive effects either, personally. though some people have experienced major wd symptoms if they've missed a dose having used for a prolonged period. some info says it's addictive, other says it's not. there's really not a great deal known on the drug yet.

madmick19 said:

heya sublimit,

why not talk to him about methadone as a pain reliever?, it has a great potential to manage your pain via once a day doseage?. this could also facilitate the discusion around previous use f Heroin and other opiates in the long run.

while methadone miht not be as eaisly transportable across aus, it would make you medication management eaiser.

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yeah mate i hear what you're saying, but i would rather avoid methadone at this point in time.

a few reasons...
1. I think methadone is a dirty opiate. the reason why i use the word dirty is because i have seen what it makes people look like. My cousin has been on it for a year and he's reduced down to 30mg a day, and i think he has to go to the chemist twice a week, which is not better than paying a subsidised amount for a months supply of oxycodone once a month. Honestly he looks like shit, and i was shocked when i saw him last... he looked sick.
2. about a year and a half ago i went on it for 2 weeks, 40mg a day. my mum said i looked like i was possessed, and when i looked at myself i could see what it made me look like. I felt sick on it, and looked even worse.... i've noticed this in a lot of people on methadone, and i would rather being on suboxone to be honest.
3. If there was such an opiate that could be used for pain management and opiate replacement therapy then that would be great, but currently i don't think suboxone or methadone appeals to me in either way, let alone both. I want a full, clean µ-opioid agonist that doesn't make me feel and look like shit.
so far, and similar to what Terry Wright said about quality of life when switched from methadone to slow release morphine, oxycodone at the right dose has made my quality of life a lot better, but i'm looking for other options, because i believe it could be even better... morphine and hydromorphone i would defiantly like to try.

I really do think that the pharmacotherapy for opiate addiction will be completely different in Australia in 10 years time... i think there will be more options, hopefully more liberal and tailored to suit a specific individual than ATM. One can only hope, not just for me personally, but for anyone thats got an ongoing opiate addiction, and even for chronic pain management.

for now though i see 2 choices i can make, and finding a doctor that will listen to me and not discriminate is a huge plus for someone like me in my current state. killing 2 birds with one stone and finding my own choice of opiate that works for me is a challenge, and one that i'm finding both satisfying and interesting too. I think if i was to choose to go on a current opiate replacement program for my current conditions, i would consider it to be a cop out.

leftwing said:

i prefer morphine. i don't necessarily like that stimulative effect oxy can produce, i can find it a hindrance.

the reason they that amount of time to start taking effect is because they're slow, continuous release pills. they've each got a wax matrix which releases the drug over a period of 12 hours. information on the matrix of each pill is easy to pull up with a simple google; i'm pretty sure the purdue (oxycontin brand) has the info on it's site for example.

i guess i say tramadol is a breakthrough pain med but it's not really, it just adds the extra pain relief i need as my doctor isn't willing to bump my morphine dose up any further at the moment. i mainly use the slow release tablets; codeine for proper breakthrough.

i find valium and baclofen just as effective as each other as a muscle relacant and for anxiety. just each has it's different side effects. if you suffer from muscle spasms then you'll find it useful.

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Hey thanks for your thoughts on why you prefer morphine over oxycodone. personally i've never tried morphine, execpt the little bit my liver provides me when dosing on codeine but i don't find oxycodone to be stimulating.... for me it's kinda like H but a little less euphoric and a little more fresh feeling, but with a slightly less body load.

I'm looking at my pack of oxycontin and it's made by a company called 'Mundipharma' the time release can vary from people to people for various reasons, but the wax matrix would be very similar to that of ms contins i assume. thats what i proposed to my doctor anyway.

As i said i was unfortunate with loosing 2 packs of twenty 20mg oxy's, but i decided to stick it out by using a combination of codeine CWE, rikodine and the occasional H use. I had it in my mind for a while that i was going to go and see my doctor and tell him that i had to take 3 20mg oxycodone a day, but i just waited until today to see him. it was the 10th of this month when i got sixty 20mg oxy's, and when i saw him today i was slightly nervous about getting a refill, but i went in and explained that i was taking 3 a day for sufficient around the clock pain, and he looked at me, gave me a little speech about oxycontin being like heroin and then gave me a script of ninety 20mg oxycontins and he also asked how my pain is... i mentioned breakthrough pain being a slight problem the more active i become, but didn't want to push my luck(he gave me a pack of celebrex, but said it wasn't for break through pain lol). As i had an MRI last week we talked about that and i showed him that i had an appointment with a specialist in mid august(i've been told by the hospital outpatient staff that i could push it forward, but i'm happy to wait because i'm loving my doctor)

So it wasn't even 2 n ahalf weeks and he doesn't hesitate, or get mad at me changing my dose as long as i have a legitimate reason to. he's making me get all these crazy ideas about upping doses, changing opiates and thinking of getting some serious breakthrough opiate.... did i mention dilaudid? .... well i know that if i'm responsible,, i will be having nice quality of life, and without that monkey named heroin on my back, and also i have plenty of time to compromise and maybe experience other opiates too.

So in anyone's experience, how do doctors feel about changing to other opiates? is there anything benificial to do so? i don't know much about cross tolerance, but i think that would be the reason why i would ask him to. is there any reasons why a doctor would? if i was to suggest to him that say hypothetically i tell him that i feel like i'm getting a tolerance to this, how do you feel about switching me on to morphine or hydromorphone? or would that be taking a backwards step? I know that eventually i will ask for some IR breakthrough medication as i have plenty of time, and there's also the fact that i'm going to need an op on my knee, which will be another opportunity to change my regime.... but thats in the future, right now i know that what i'm on is more than i ever hoped for, and for that i am grateful, i just need to be able to respect the medication, like i would forced to do as if i was on an opiate replacement program. So according to an opiate equivalent chart, my current daily dose of oxycodone is equivalent to 90mg of methadone??? that can't be right surely?

does anyone have anything more accurate? i used http://www.globalrph.com/narcotic.cgi

Anyway, about baclofen... it seems very useful, and a good alternative to benzodiazepines, or even to use in conjunction with a benzo... i'm surprised no doctor has ever mentioned it to me before. i recently heard that other day when i was in a seedy part of Melbourne picking up some H, someone telling me about it, and if you take 3 they'll knock you on your arse in a similar way to seroquel with someone with no tolerance to it... but it appears with baclofen that tolerance is almost a non issue... hmmm pretty interesting, must look into that as i hate the fact that i can't take benzo's for longer than 2 weeks before they come useless, or i form a problematic habit and have to go through a taper or an uncomfortable WD, and possibly permanent changes to my brain and how it tolerates benzo's.... i'm rambling, but i'm happy

^ Glad to hear you sorted out your problem, just be careful man, it sounds like you're going down a bad path with constantly trying to get your script upgraded so quickly, I'd hate to see your doctor pull out on you.

Only problem I'm having with the baclofen at the moment is it's very short acting, it works well for 2, maybe 3 hours without side effects outside of some drowsiness and a slightly spacey feeling (much less than benzos though), but I'm redosing constantly to maintain pain relief. I'm supposed to be slowly working my way up in doseage upping it 10mg every few days (I'm not sure why exactly), but I ended up going through 90mg in the last 24 hours just to maintain some kind of consistant effect. Not sure if there's something similar but longer acting out there.

^^^^
hey thanks for the heads up, yeah i know what you're saying about the road i'm heading down, and i know how important it is to be patient and not over do it, as i really like this GP personally, not just because of what he is prescribing me, but he seems genuine, and he listens to me and wants the best for me.... i don't want to betray his trust in me, and like i said before, i need to learn to respect opiates if i'm to overcome them... but i'm not ready to say goodbye, i just would like to be honest and eventually i'll feel more comfortable about being completely open with him... i owe him that much. he's the reason why my quality of life is what it is and i appreciate what he's doing for me even though he doesn't know the whole extent of my relationship with my medication.

honestly, i'd be a fool to abuse his trust, and i look forward to him being my GP for years to come. I know people with an affection for opiates do desperate things and part of this relationship is for me to grow as a person and live my life like i should have a long time ago. i dwell on the past, and in truth, i know that i shouldn't ever go back to using H and even though my GP doesn't know it, he's helping me in more ways than he thinks.

it's very easy for me to say this, but i'd like to one day bump this thread and look back on it as the start of my recovery, and the beginning of my life, and my search for happiness.

I just hope i can push on from here on now and fulfil my potential, as i have so much to offer, just made the wrong choices that i regret deeply.... once my knee is sorted i can start to work again, and put all this behind me... i'm luck i've my health and i used to take that for granted, but i 'm old enough now to realise that i need to make the most of my life and start being responsible... and that includes being honest with my gp and myself.

thanks for your warm wards Crankinit

As for baclofen, well my problem is falling asleep, but once i'm asleep i'm right, so it's short action seems ideal for sleep purposes and also PM post opiates

So in anyone's experience, how do doctors feel about changing to other opiates? is there anything benificial to do so? i don't know much about cross tolerance, but i think that would be the reason why i would ask him to. is there any reasons why a doctor would? if i was to suggest to him that say hypothetically i tell him that i feel like i'm getting a tolerance to this, how do you feel about switching me on to morphine or hydromorphone? or would that be taking a backwards step? I know that eventually i will ask for some IR breakthrough medication as i have plenty of time, and there's also the fact that i'm going to need an op on my knee, which will be another opportunity to change my regime.... but thats in the future,

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it's really dependent on your dr. mine has been liberal to me in letting me try out each different opiate over time when i've asked. funnily enough he mentioned the Jurnista to me today because i've been complaining and put the foot down (as you have to sometimes) and told him i need something for breakthrough after all this time he's been talking me out of it. Jurnista isn't in town here yet but when it arrives i'll be trying it out with hopefully dilauded as breakthrough. so i'll let you know how that goes.

Only problem I'm having with the baclofen at the moment is it's very short acting

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it's halflife is only around 6 hours, thats why it's short acting.

well, i saw my doc again today and talked him out of sending me to hospital, thank fuck!

i ended up getting a script for the 8mg jurnista but aren't arriving untik tomorrow so i've got some oxycontin in the mean time.

i'll post up some pics and thoughts on them after a couple days when i've settled on them

^ I look forward to hearing your views on it. I would kill for hydromorphone! Not for legitimate pain relief, as I don't really suffer chronic pain, but it sounds oh so wonderful to abuse. I imagine the jurnista have a number of measures to prevent abuse.

http://www.pharmainfo.net/reviews/r...rolled-sustained-release-drug-delivery-system

they've got the OROS push-pull system.

i'm hoping to change from oxy for BT to dilauded

i'm one of the first in town to have been prescribed it along with a few others as there's a back order on them at the moment. thankfully my pharmacy gets them tomorrow:D

Hey guys just wondering...A while ago, I cracked my bottom tooth (bottom row, far back left) and half of it is missing and is now incredibly sensitive, even to air let alone food or drink. The reason was because I grind my teeth in my sleep. Usually I wear a plastic mouthguard to prevent any enamel rubbing on enamel and wearing away, but on some nights I have forgotten to use it, and so half of my tooth has cracked off, exposing nerve tissue underneath

I have been to my local dentist and he says I need to see a specialist, in order to have a complex root canal performed. However I can't afford what it costs (around $3200) to get the root canal and a crown to follow.

Anyway, I am in severe pain and have since seen my local doctor about it. I explained I had tried oil of cloves, tooth ache gel, and cannot take ibuprofen or paracetamol due to other medication I'm currently using.

He gave me a box of Lyrica tablets, plus a script for 25mg Tramadol and another for 15mg Endone. However, these haven't even touched the pain and I'm contemplating going back and telling him, to possibly obtain something stronger. As I say, it is excruciating to eat or especially drink anything. I am just worried he will see it as drug seeking behaviour. But its killing me, what should I do?

Sublimit, I hope you find the right dose/product for your pain needs bud!

^Unfortunately your doctor has done everything he can bar doing the surgery himself.

Your doctor has given you a cocktail of drugs that cover every aspect of pain relief in the human body.

Eg. Lyrica - Nerve pain, Tramadol - Unconventional pain reliever with both nerve pain relieving properties and traditional pain relieving properties, with the added pain relief of a SNRI, Endone - aka oxycodone is one of the most popular pain relievers on the market today, and almost nobody gets a script for more than 5mg pills.

So as you can see, you doctor has been very good to you, and almost no medical drugs will help your pain. This is a problem that has become evident with tooth pain ever since sugar was turned into sweets in early England, and almost nothing except surgery or NO2 can ease the pain.

Summing up: Your doctor cannot do anymore for your pain.

Other options:
1. Look into insurance for surgery, or find a sympathetic dentist who will let you pay the surgery off over time.
2. NSAIDS may also be an option to enhance the pain relieving properties of your drug cocktail. COXII inhibitors may also be an option. (I know you said you are opposed to this, but there are many many options, and I am sure you can put up with a few side effects to reduce the pain you are feeling.)
3. Go to your local pharmacy and find a benzocaine topical pain reliever.
4. Maybe try a benzo instead of the Lyrica.

I just posted these links in another thread, but I will post here also as they are relevant to this thread.

OPIOID PRESCRIPTION in CHRONIC PAIN CONDITIONS
GUIDELINES for SOUTH AUSTRALIAN GENERAL PRACTITIONERS (GPs)

PAIN MATTERS
Opioid Use in Persistent Pain
Hunter New England, NSW Health

Prescription Opioid Policy
Improving management of chronic non-malignant pain and prevention of problems associated with prescription opioid use

I hope they are helpful for anyone out there that may need some more information on opiate prescription in Australia.

Thanks very much for the advice nabollocks. Really appreciate it.

The only option I thought I had was to be given a stronger opioid; albeit knowing this wasn't the ideal solution due to risks of addiction etc. I think you are right in the best option being to find a way to pay off the cost for my surgery. But as I said, my money is quite tied up at the moment with other things - so it may prove quite difficult

I find it strange how the oxycodone did almost nothing to ease any of the pain. I didn't abuse the tablets I had, and read the instructions which I believe, was to take no more than 8 in a day. I had taken 2 every 4 or 5 hours and have 2 left from a pack of 20. I have researched oxycodone and understand the drug is chemically a lot more potent than say, codeine...even though oxy is a semi-synthetic opioid, whereas codeine is a derivative of morphine - and around 10% of codeine is metabolised to morphine in the (liver?)

My worry is that the earliest I can book in for an appointment with a specialist dentist is three to four weeks. An since there doesn't seem to be anything to cure the immense pain - both oral or topical - to ease it during now and when I end up in the chair.


I'll just add that I've also been to the chemist and tried tooth ache drops (active ingredient: benzocaine) and an anaesthetic mouth wash that contained lidocaine. These worked for around 2 minutes and as soon as I needed to have a drink, it washes away and the pain returns

Thanks for the help mate

When I had a nasty boute of ulcers a while back the only thing that worked for me was xylocaine. Hell of a lot better than lignocaine, and much longer lasting. Maybe give that a spin?

drug_mentor said:

^ I look forward to hearing your views on it. I would kill for hydromorphone! Not for legitimate pain relief, as I don't really suffer chronic pain, but it sounds oh so wonderful to abuse. I imagine the jurnista have a number of measures to prevent abuse.

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it's got potential, but it wasn't very effective at the 8mg dose i was given so i bumped up to 16mg and then 24mg where it was bearable enough for me to handle the pain and go about things. i have even seen it has trialled in certain european countries for ORT as well.

i weighed up my options and am going to stay on my usual scripts; morphine, tram and short term oxy for BT at the moment.

Yeah I thought they trialled it for ORT in Canada too? Not 100% though.

I just got back from a doctors appointment, said I had been suffering from back pain and that but they refused to write me a script for fortes even on top of my valium. It isn't as though it was a one off valium script, I have got them from there for well over a year and it isn't scripted for daily use so I don't get why that is grounds to refuse me.

I don't get why doctors are so fucking tight with opiates in this country even though down in Tasmania we are growing a fuck tonne of them. I mean really, what am I going to go and do with a box of fortes, even ultram or endone isn't overly recreational. It is really frustrating that suspicion someone intends to abuse such fucking weak medication is grounds to refuse them treatment for such easily fixable problems.

not meaning to step out of line being a noob and all.... but... wouldn't the first thing you would do with that box of fortes be a CWE? Not that there is anything wrong with that, heck I'd do the same however the doctor probably assumes as much aswell....

drug_mentor said:

Yeah I thought they trialled it for ORT in Canada too? Not 100% though.

I just got back from a doctors appointment, said I had been suffering from back pain and that but they refused to write me a script for fortes even on top of my valium. It isn't as though it was a one off valium script, I have got them from there for well over a year and it isn't scripted for daily use so I don't get why that is grounds to refuse me.

I don't get why doctors are so fucking tight with opiates in this country even though down in Tasmania we are growing a fuck tonne of them. I mean really, what am I going to go and do with a box of fortes, even ultram or endone isn't overly recreational. It is really frustrating that suspicion someone intends to abuse such fucking weak medication is grounds to refuse them treatment for such easily fixable problems.

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There main goal these days is to protect there license. Their general rule of thumb is if it's a risk then they won't bother. They'd be prepared to see someone suffer if they percieve any risk hwo ever minute it is. A good repore with a DR is importent if you want/need to be perscribed anything other than the usual suspects.

Man I guarantee this bitch had no idea what a CWE was, and even if your allegation was true she really had no grounds to say my back wasn't in pain. I mean it is pretty well known on here I love my codeine, but she was refusing on the basis of it being dangerous and thats just shit I have been on the valium for over a year and theres no way a minute dose of codeine is going to kill me with a therapeutic dose of valium, the sad fact is I would be lucky if I felt either.

If she really was aware of CWE which I would bet both my balls and lifesavings that she didn't, when you think about it isn't that even more reason not to refuse me? I mean I can CWE any dose of codeine I want OTC anyway, that would of just saved me a few bucks and stopped the pharmacist whining at me for once. There is no harm that has been averted or even reduced so what is the point in it, basically she refused me what she had no good reason to believe wasn't legitimite pain relief (and I am not even admitting here it wasn't ), when my fucking medicare is paying for her to treat me medically, because I MIGHT abuse it even though I can abuse the fuck out of codeine OTC if I wanted anyway. How in the fuck does this make sense?