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View Full Version : Phenobarbital vs. Benzo's



Komatose
03-09-2009, 09:46
I would like to know the similarity, and differences between the two.
I know very little about Phenobarbital but know a fair amount about benzo's.
I want to know the pro's and con's of each different drug. Any input would be appreciated, Thank you BL in advance.

8-12
03-09-2009, 10:00
The difference is that phenobarbital sucks. I love barbs, but pheno literally has no recreational potential unless you find sleeping particularly euphoric. Secobarbital, pentobarbital, awesome drugs. But pheno will do nothing but make one drowsy, not unlike taking a couple Benadryl. There's a reason pheno's so available compared to other barbs...

pallidamors
03-09-2009, 10:06
If you use the search engine, and maybe google "barbiturate" to get some general info on the drugs (most barbs feel pretty similar I think, at least the few I've tried, just like how most benzos have very similar effects), you could probably come up with your own list.

The main difference that I will state is that phenobarbital is much more dangerous than any benzo. This is because it is possible to overdose on phenobarbital even if it is not combined with another drug. The LD50 for animals is given at 165-200 mg/kg^-1, which I think yields a lethal dose of 1200-1400 mg for a 150 pound (or 68 kg) individual, although my math may well be off...if someone better at numbers can correct me please feel free.

Benzos, on the other hand, are nearly impossible to overdose on IF AND ONLY IF they are NOT combined with other drugs; mixing benzos with opiates, alcohol, and other CNS depressants make overdose an incredibly simple phenomenon.

I think this should maybe be moved to BDD since its not exactly a specific question on a single drug, plus I am thinking this topic may have been covered in the past.

Shnargoff
06-09-2009, 07:21
Bump! experiences anyone? ualways thought it wasnt "bad". Always just hear from people who dont take alot, how is it in much higher doses, nice sedation? whats the feeling like, idc if it isn't as good as valium, xannies , etc which i already realize. But is it alright? :) . I always see a few who love it

pr0d1gy
06-09-2009, 07:41
Benzos are much better IMO, phenobarb will just knock you out completely and if it doesn't you won't remember wtf you did on it. Not you could do much but be a zombie on it though

Shnargoff
06-09-2009, 09:14
600mg seems to be relaxing(taken over the course of 8 hours),sedating( not too tiring), Definately posses's hypnotic properties but nothing like a moderate dose of xanax,lorazepam etc. Alot m ore clear headed than benzos . always figured pheno would feel heavier . Surprising....Barbs are an interest atm.

Would a benzo tolerance affect a barb tolerance? May seem like a stupid ? but have no idea. the ld50 is somewhere around 1300mg or something? that can't seem right? Benzos and low dose of phenobarbital taken together can definately slurr you out bad. I don't want to set myself up here , but is this barb scare a bit over rated? alone it seems it won't wreck you like bennies, maybe its deceiving the user

Komatose
06-09-2009, 18:04
What's a lethal dose of pheno? I only have like 4 68mg pills, and 1 clonazepam 1mg. If taken together will I first of all be okay, and second of all feel a buzz. Will pheno synergize well with the clonazepam?

jimjones
25-09-2009, 09:56
i agree phenobarbital is boring and even uncomfortable by itself, and it lasts a couple of days. expect to feel gloomy and dysphoria. i have mixed pheno (90mg) with tramadol (600 mg) valium, (12mg), and dozy (25 mg) (i know dangerous). i don't vouch for this, but i will share that it feels like ecstasy and like i am walking on air. i do avoid sleep though and try to stay alert fearing the synergy effect. i do have high tolerance to all three, especially trams, but not phenobarbital. i have slept and woke up. it was such a comfortable sleep like ambien but longer. but again, this is playing with fire. not much experience reports on mixing pheno and benzos. anyone experience this?

jimjones
25-09-2009, 10:17
Komatose : i believe phenobarbital lethal dose depends, but it can be fatal as low as 1 gram. the most i took with valium in my system was 240 mg. it was uncomfortable and told myself not to do a high dose like this again. yes, there is a synergetic effect when mixed with a benzo, but the lethal dose may be even lower for pheno ... so be careful. i have mixed klonopin with phenobarbital, but just found it sedating without any euphoria. i believe it was more comfortable perhaps because the dose was modest and the klonopin made it smoother. i am even paranoid taking less than 100 mg of pheno -- 60 mg or less i am very comfortable and enjoy without the lingering thought i may die. for christ sake, people use phenobarbital to commit suicide (e.g. Heaven's Gate Cult), although clearly other rare barbiturates are more dangerous or effective with suicide if desired. i believe tramadol and pheno is an unbelievable combination. its a pseudo-MDMA high (tramadol, albeit not for everyone ... but i'm lucky i never get nausea on high doses). in addition, the pheno prevents seizures. but again, this is risky business mixing. even if death isn't a strong possibility, you may be gambling with your kidneys and liver. be careful with ANY barbs, including the boring phenobarbital. be safe and happy trippin

jimjones
25-09-2009, 11:11
600mg seems to be relaxing(taken over the course of 8 hours),sedating( not too tiring), Definately posses's hypnotic properties but nothing like a moderate dose of xanax,lorazepam etc. Alot m ore clear headed than benzos . always figured pheno would feel heavier . Surprising....Barbs are an interest atm.

Would a benzo tolerance affect a barb tolerance? May seem like a stupid ? but have no idea. the ld50 is somewhere around 1300mg or something? that can't seem right? Benzos and low dose of phenobarbital taken together can definately slurr you out bad. I don't want to set myself up here , but is this barb scare a bit over rated? alone it seems it won't wreck you like bennies, maybe its deceiving the user

interesting. i guess i am sensitive. my benzo tolerance is very high (e.g. 120 mg of valium, 8 mg of xanax, etc.) of course i am pretty far gone, but not like passed out the entire time. fragments are only remembered. i figure 40 mg of valium is a maximum comfortable dose where i can function practically normally, or so i think in my head. i think its tolerance independent because pheno works on different receptors on GABA. hence, tapering off benzo using phenobarbital is no longer recommended -- in fact, it is considered barbaric. i did hear barbs are cross tolerant with a benzo like midazolam. i found the pills very boring taking up to 120 mg within 30 minutes. i could swear that i'm getting difficulty breathing spells though when i mix pheno with benzos and trams, and even over-the-counter sleeping pills. it could be the profound poly effect. 600 mg of pheno is way too much for me and i wouldn't do this because i would be so uncomfortable. i can forget working or even walking or talking coherently for awhile. more like watching tv like a zombie for 5 days with major depression. yup, i get that heavy feeling too which does suck IMO. good to hear feedback on phenobarbital as i have a general fascination with barbiturates. not sure why?

AfterGlow
25-09-2009, 11:26
As a kid, I used to take a med called Quadrinal for asthma. It contained theophylline, ephedrine, potassium iodide and phenobarital.

The phenobarbital was part of that concoction to calm down the shakes you'd get from the combination of theophylline and ephedrine, both strong CNS stimulants.

It felt like a screwy speedball and left you drained.

jimjones
25-09-2009, 11:56
AfterGlow : did you ever have panic attacks? did you feel heart pains? that combo (regardless of dosage) seems crazy. and this was for helping asthma? was it the spray, or was it pills? sorry, i don't know much about asthma except for some people that have the condition. interesting to hear a barbiturate is assisting with breathing, or maybe its for the "shakes" -- i can understand that

AfterGlow
25-09-2009, 12:16
Yes, I used to suffer from awful panic attacks. I'd go into crazy temper tantrums too.

Back then, they didn't have all of the corticosteroids for treating asthma. So strong stimulants were used for their ability to relax smooth muscle and open up airways.

Quadrinal was a pink horrible tasting liquid. The pheno in it was not to help the asthma. It was to help with the terrible side effects of the strong stimulants.

jimjones
25-09-2009, 15:48
well glad to hear they came out with something more stable. stimulants and downers can trick your heart 8o

chuchu
25-09-2009, 17:12
The (shitty)thing about phenobarb is that it has a LONG half life its easy for you not to feel any effect immediately and decide to redose. Big mistake esp if you combine with other substance. IMO short acting barbs are better if not safer Oh and the above info is from personal exp a phenobarb and codeine binge that almost turned fatal.

mukant666
25-09-2009, 19:53
I took phenobarbital for Heroin w/d's, all it helped for was shakes and sleep but other then that it's worthless.

jimjones
26-09-2009, 01:12
The (shitty)thing about phenobarb is that it has a LONG half life its easy for you not to feel any effect immediately and decide to redose. Big mistake esp if you combine with other substance. IMO short acting barbs are better if not safer Oh and the above info is from personal exp a phenobarb and codeine binge that almost turned fatal.

i emphatically agree. the phenobarbital half-life carries over and that can accumulate shortly to a potential overdose. knowledgeable warning!

matterofperception
26-09-2009, 01:15
Iv'e done phenobarbitol a handful of times and benzos a crapload. I MUCH prefer just about any benzo to phenobarb. Phenobarb gets a bad name because you have to take a ton to feel anything, and then your only high is feeling medium level drunk for 10 minutes then falling asleep. IMO phenobarb is pretty worthless as far as recreation goes.:\

jimjones
26-09-2009, 01:16
chuchu : how much was your binge? did you take small amounts at a time? how much phenobarbital total (approx mg)?

jimjones
26-09-2009, 01:19
Iv'e done phenobarbitol a handful of times and benzos a crapload. I MUCH prefer just about any benzo to phenobarb. Phenobarb gets a bad name because you have to take a ton to feel anything, and then your only high is feeling medium level drunk for 10 minutes then falling asleep. IMO phenobarb is pretty worthless as far as recreation goes.:\

yup, and dangerous too. that's why they give to dogs. it was just interesting to note that mixing pheno can produce a quality high, but the risk is probably not worth it. do you know how much pheno can accumulate in your system? ex. if you take 120 mg pheno for three days w/ other substances (benzos, opiates in fairly high doses) -- are you in serious danger?

Moonmixer
26-09-2009, 04:25
Barbs are well known as very dangerous drugs. I'm too tired to elaborate or post links, but I'm not speaking from personal experience here. Look it up.

jimjones
26-09-2009, 06:42
yeah, i research barbs like crazy as i am just fascinated by them. maybe i have an exotic thing for rare items or things extinct. obviously, pentobarbital is used to euthanize dogs. i know the dangers and the LD50 (Median Lethal Dose) for all barbs, but i was curious if this medicine accumulates where it pick right up after you redose -- it is like continuing to add to the milligrams you took from 3 days ago. because of the long half-life, i do fear this situation versus alcohol where a person get more and more sober every passing hour. also, the LD50 drops when mixing with other CNS depressants

Komatose
29-09-2009, 04:05
I hear that pheno stops working for sleep after 2 weeks. think i read that on wiki or something. And from my experiences it did stop working after a while. It worked great for a short period, then just stopped putting me to sleep. You think i just need to take more?

jimjones
29-09-2009, 08:28
I hear that pheno stops working for sleep after 2 weeks. think i read that on wiki or something. And from my experiences it did stop working after a while. It worked great for a short period, then just stopped putting me to sleep. You think i just need to take more?

I agree because I have a benzo tolerance. I really don't know your tolerance, if any. But this would solidify exactly what you pointed out. Pheno works inconsistently for me -- one night I cannot sleep and then the next day, I over sleep. But yes, after a few days tolerance sets in and one must be careful. Not just because it is a barbiturate [albeit weak recreationally], but since this stuff is hard to come by unless you order from other countries [or maybe you have dog with seizures], this is something you definitely don't want to get a habit for. I think you need to wean yourself off. If early, cut each day by 50% to be safe. If you've been taking pheno for awhile, I am not the right person to be asking. I would say withdrawal is worse than benzo and alcoholism withdrawal.

Komatose
02-10-2009, 23:30
I have a benzo habit, currently have 50 xanny bars. only a couple pheno's for when i stop the benzo's. Is it okay to mix pheno with benzo's (i would say no) but i want someone else input. I also do heroin everyday, and the days i dont do H i do suboxone. Phenobarbital is one of the craziest drugs i have come across. It's just such a mystery.

jimjones
03-10-2009, 02:14
It is such a mysterious drug for our generation - barbiturates. I guess we are attracted to things that are either extinct or hard to procure. I wouldn't recommend taking large quantities of either. With that being said, I think pheno alone sucks completely. I feel depressed and just zombified [but in a bad way not like xanax or any benzo] for a few days. I noticed that mixing phenobarbital with some valium and tramadol gives me a nice relaxed feeling akin to valium and tramadol, but more drowsy and relaxed. Be careful though since you are taking heroin too. This combo might be dangerous in small amounts because of synergy and the pheno lasts 58 hours at minimum.

Komatose
03-10-2009, 05:05
Yeah. I am pretty much outta the Pheno anyways. I have easy access to it though. But I only use it when i'm in WD or can't sleep for the life of me. I think it has a cross tolerance to benzo's too, cause I took 4mg of xanax and all it did was make me sleepy (I didn't even fall asleep). But when your dope sick and its the only thing around, it deff dulls the pain.

LillyF40
27-10-2009, 07:15
It is such a mysterious drug for our generation - barbiturates. I guess we are attracted to things that are either extinct or hard to procure. I wouldn't recommend taking large quantities of either. With that being said, I think pheno alone sucks completely. I feel depressed and just zombified [but in a bad way not like xanax or any benzo] for a few days. I noticed that mixing phenobarbital with some valium and tramadol gives me a nice relaxed feeling akin to valium and tramadol, but more drowsy and relaxed. Be careful though since you are taking heroin too. This combo might be dangerous in small amounts because of synergy and the pheno lasts 58 hours at minimum.

Be greatful it is just a mystery for you...As a person who grew up in the generation eating reds, yellow, tunnies, all I can say is I got into a lot of trouble, and I went to many of my friends funerals from car accidents, OD's, etc just in a few years. I loved Barbituates, but if they were still around no doubt me and many more of my friends would be dead today. Barbituates were fun but they can be deadly when played with. Pheno is nothing like other barbituates,euphorically speaking, but it is still a strong drug and people have died from OD's..Remember those cult members who took them with tapioca? I forgot the name of the cult, but something like 30 people died....

LillyF40 %)

drug_FUCKED
07-02-2010, 12:51
Anyone who has tried a few barbs can give a list of most euphoric barb to least.
So is phenobarb very non-euphoric?

Psychedelic Jay
07-02-2010, 21:13
It's because it's action is not as quick and strong as shorter acting barbs.
It's just a long steady uprise, then a long steady comedown. Pretty boooooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggg!
I only got euphoria during the middle of the whole ordeal.
All I want to do is go to sleep, just because the sedation is just soooo damn tiring.

It just takes too damn long, and most people like many above think that it was not enough, so they went on the steep end, and nearly permanently slept themselves.

When I was in rehab, I got seconal to go to sleep during the enitial withdrawal from crank.

I was so damn happy after I took it!!!!!!!!
I fell asleep and pissed myself I was out so cold.

Jakeperson
22-08-2011, 17:17
Are there other ways of administering phenobarbital?

NeighborhoodThreat
22-08-2011, 17:24
What do you mean exactly?

Ne0
23-08-2011, 13:53
It seems that many people don't like this, but I do. It feels like diazepam, definitely 100% better than temazepam that sucks big time. I imagine that this goes great with opioids.

effie
23-08-2011, 18:52
Barbituates + opioids -> untimely death unless you are very careful...

Jackeperson, not sure what you mean, other than oral? Plugged, IV.. I would not recommend either as it's too easy to OD..No idea if it can be insufflated!

This is an old thread so am going to close it. Anyone is free to make their own new thread if they have a question :)