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jspun
29-07-2009, 11:06
Please compare and contrast the highs from different script amphetamine formulations and meth. What is preferable from a recreational standpoint dexedrine or Adderall. How do they each compare with increase on libido? I used the search engine but had trouble finding good threads, can someone post links to any good threads on this issue? Thanks!

ps anybody ever try obetrol (current adderall) back in the day and black beauties and how did they compare. I read all this stuff about biphetamine being the shit but I had an oldtimer tell me he liked obetrol better, that was the best speed in his opinion even beating out desoxyn, but I hear some people say the buzz from Adderall is not that that euphoric. I have a theory that availabilty and word of mouth as well as other contextual factors have a huge effect on drug acceptability and desirability, so in other words when the company that manufactures Adderall convince physicians that it is a miracle cure for ADD because anoretics as an indication have gone out of fashion and its being prescribed to everyone and their grandmothers then the word on the street is that the drug pretty lame, to throw away or give away to friends who like that kind of high. By the same token when the magazines are targetting meth as one of the horses of the apocalypse, then dirty, cut, unpharmaceutical street meth becomes a drug capable of causing euphoria and joy of mythical proportions in people minds. 20 years ago same drugs would be poor mans cocaine-good in a pinch amd the former some good clean pharmacuetical speed. This comparison is kind of far fetched but I think this phenomena is valid. Personally, I got several pharmaceutical speeds in the past and crank (possibly P2P dope) and I found they produced similar levels of euphoria, in fact I prefered the pharms to the street crank. But I've gotten shards that produced insane euphoria.

So if you've lost me by now please answer if nothing else: please compare the nuances and esoteric aspects of the different amphetamines Rx and Non (meth, eurospeed, ect... If you'll answer only one question: which provides a better high in your opinion dexedrine or adderall

PinK~cloud
29-07-2009, 13:53
stick to meth. it sucks when people who really need this stuff can't get it because of people like you.

jspun
29-07-2009, 15:01
stick to meth. it sucks when people who really need this stuff can't get it because of people like you.

Please explain. What did I do to prevent people who need this stuff from getting it?8)

While were making assumptions, I think that the real reason, (and it does suck that people are not getting the "stuff" they need) is because the majority of the people in this country think like you. People are not receiving the optimum therapeutic agent or treatment modality because as a country we are letting drug hysteria dictate patient care.

And I'm not sure how the free exchange of ideas that this board represents and facilitates would somehow contribute to medical negligence.

stylishkidsriot
29-07-2009, 16:52
Obetrol was nothing like Adderall, it countained meth... Biphetamine (or black beauties) were more like Adderall, but still different (Biphet = 50/50 d-l amp and Adderall is more like 75/25 if I remember correctly)

EDIT.
Obetrol:
* 2.5mg methamphetamine saccharate
* 2.5mg methamphetamine hydrochloride
* 2.5mg (racemic dextro/levo-amphetamine) sulfate
* 2.5mg dextroamphetamine sulfate

(According to Wikipedia)

jspun
29-07-2009, 18:30
Obetrol was nothing like Adderall, it countained meth... Biphetamine (or black beauties) were more like Adderall, but still different (Biphet = 50/50 d-l amp and Adderall is more like 75/25 if I remember correctly)

EDIT.
Obetrol:
* 2.5mg methamphetamine saccharate
* 2.5mg methamphetamine hydrochloride
* 2.5mg (racemic dextro/levo-amphetamine) sulfate
* 2.5mg dextroamphetamine sulfate

(According to Wikipedia)

Thats interesting. Thanks for the clarification

The biphetamines were formulated in a cationic/anionic resin exchange complex or something like this. Anyway people seemed to like these alot.
So getting back to my questions anyone have any input and comparing and contrasting subjective effects from various amphetamines? How strong is the influence of social and contextual influences on peoples description and appreciation of the high? Any links to good previous threads pertaining to any of these topics people can post?

stylishkidsriot
29-07-2009, 18:38
I wouldn't know since I've never done speed and am rather new to this forum ^^

OxyMorph
29-07-2009, 19:23
Good meth is way better than any kind of pharm amphetamine.

ebola?
29-07-2009, 22:01
even Desoxyn (assuming oral dosing)?

StereoLogic
29-07-2009, 22:13
I wouldn't know since I've never done speed and am rather new to this forum ^^

Well since your new its cool this time, but if you're going to write something, at least contribute to the conversation.




______________________________________________

How do you guys feel about adderal vs Propylhexedrine ?

PinK~cloud
29-07-2009, 22:39
even Desoxyn (assuming oral dosing)?
yes. alot of people complain that desoxyn is boring and makes them fall asleep. the reason for that is because it's pure meth. street meth has other unreacted products and shit that makes street meth feel much stronger.

jspun
29-07-2009, 23:55
even Desoxyn (assuming oral dosing)?

Thats a good question? I wonder how the high would compare dosoxyn vs street shards. Maybe impurities would effect high as PQ suggests.

What drug ranks higher in terms of likability and intrinsic acceptability: Adderall or dexedrine. Sometimes different brands of the same drug seem to have peculiarities in efficacy- a pharmacist I know was involved in a study investigating the phenomena for reasons that were unclear (molecular footprints, differences in the synthetic process?) Its not fully understood. I've experienced this personally with different methadone formulations even though differences in subjective effects at equivalent doses is counterintuitive.

In the late 80s/early 90s I got ahold of dexedrine which my friend was being prescribed to his brother. Found the high euphoric and smoother than the penut butter/ purple crank going around at the time. Crank seemed to have more of an enhanced tactile sensation effect than the dexedrine. Euphoria wise the best high I got was from a pharm formulation that by then was almost 15 years old called appetrol. Came in capsules and the powder inside looked like coffee creamer. Was I think 5 mg of dexedrine with a dose of meprobamate. That was very smooth and euphoric but I think the meprobamate was potentiating the euphoria. I think there is some magic to the combo of barbs/amph that synergizes euphoria above and beyond smoothing out side effects. Maybe miltown did this based on a similar MOA to barbs. At any rate 4 pills would make me feel fanfuckintastic. I knew a girl that used to get black beauties in mid 80s that used to say they were better than crank.

The old timer from the first post used to say obetrol and preludin were the best stims. He used to like to take the preludin with placidyl. He had stories ( he grew up in the town of Oceanside, CA) of going down to mexico and comming back with Jars of 1000 seconals and 1000 benzedrine in the late 40s when he was in highschool and comming back to the USA, getting jacked up and getting in fights with local marines.8o

I know these are hard questions to answer, like "describe the taste of a pear and compare it to an apple." Someone who does a great job of describing nuances of highs between drugs that are similar in structure are Alexander Shulgin and his friends in PIHKAL and other works. Especially in the "extension and comentary" section after the individual trip reports.

Food for thought: A friend I have thats in recovery that did some "creative cooking" a (long) while ago swears that adjusting the pH in one of the steps changes the subjective effects with one end of the spectrum being more stimulating and another more sex enhancing or something like this. Anyway may seem counterintuitive but I don't like to reject anecdotal info out of hand. And this underscores that there is a huge number of factors and variables that contribute to a drug's high.

dopiate
30-07-2009, 00:32
You can always tell whose on amphetamines and whose not in theses threads by length of post.

theartofwar
30-07-2009, 00:50
I've been rx'ed adderall in generic, brand, xr etc - dex I was scripted first generic xr then brand name IR. I've done my share of speed but it's been newer and frankly my body just doesn't handle it well.. I am up north on the east coast and while meth is everywhere ... so is what is in it. Frankly I'd much prefer to take a desoxyn and then ease along the day with the IR brand dex that I had. I don't touch the stuff anymore but the brand name is essential without a doubt, everything from ritalin to desoxyn has it's fillers and street meth god only knows.

stylishkidsriot
30-07-2009, 01:13
even Desoxyn (assuming oral dosing)?

I read an Erowid experience that compared street meth and Desoxyn, I don't know which one it was. The person basically explained that since street meth is strictly made (and altered) for recreational purposes, it is much better than the pill form, which is strictly made (and altered) for medical purposes. I don't know if anyone knows which experience it is I'm talking about...


Well since your new its cool this time, but if you're going to write something, at least contribute to the conversation.

I'm sorry, I was just answering Jspun since we were talking together when he posted the question. Hope this post was contributing anyways. :)

jspun
30-07-2009, 01:13
Frankly I'd much prefer to take a desoxyn and then ease along the day with the IR brand dex that I had.

TAOW were you scripted desoxyn? When you where still using stims, did you notice a significant difference in the high between street meth and desoxyn. Put another way- what was more similar in subjective effect, the high from desoxyn and dexedrine IR or desoxyn and meth. When you would use meth, what route(s) of administration would you use?

Sounds like you prefered the pharms if I understood correctly.


brand name is essential without a doubt

Intresting that you confirm this too.

jspun
30-07-2009, 03:07
I read an Erowid experience that compared street meth and Desoxyn, I don't know which one it was. The person basically explained that since street meth is strictly made (and altered) for recreational purposes, it is much better than the pill form, which is strictly made (and altered) for medical purposes. I don't know if anyone knows which experience it is I'm talking about...


I'll have to look that article up. One difference I can think of off the top of my head is desoxyn used to be in an extended release form (now I think only IR)that probably didn't lend itself well to non oral use. Ice is methamphetamine recrystalized in methanol or another suitable solvent to make it more amendable to smoking.


I'm sorry, I was just answering Jspun since we were talking together when he posted the question. Hope this post was contributing anyways.

No you were cool, thanks for posting that stuff about Obetrol.;)


You can always tell whose on amphetamines and whose not in theses threads by length of post. 8)...now dopiate on the other hand.

rosee
30-07-2009, 05:59
I take phentermine 30 mg and i feel slightly high from it. I don't have experience with anything else though.

Has anyone else tried this med?

PinK~cloud
30-07-2009, 11:15
^^^
unfortunately i can say i can. its more calm physically than ritalin. the mental side of the high is really lacking, hardly any concentration. it's a decent stimulant when you need a little boost tho.

SilentScornMD45
31-07-2009, 20:21
I actually have only done adderall once, but I snorted 30mgs and popped 70mgs all in a sitting. I was going fast as fuck. Now, I've also tweaked about a quarter gram once and I was fucking flyin, but I really prefer cocaine and crack over anything. Anywayyy, The adderall made me really high for a super long time. I really enjoyed it aside from the chewed up tongue and sore teeth I got from all the involuntary jaw clenches and snake sniffing (Like the Joker in "The Dark Knight".) I just call adderall black beauties. So many different ones, just call 'em cross tops or blacks, hahaha. I'm only stoned right now, but I love love love to talk. (Any bitch will tell you that's because of my persistent stimulant use!) Anyway, I don't think I helped much, but we're in an amphetamine thread, so if I have anything you can correct me on, add to, or if I provided any 411 for you, great!

Dave Mustaine For President.

nleksan
03-08-2009, 16:49
As someone who has been prescribed every major CII stimulant over the last 8 years, maybe I can shed some light...

First off, my personal opinion of dosage/relative strength:
15-20mg Racemic Amphetamine (Adderall IR/XR) *approx 75% d,-amp and 25% l,-amp*
10mg Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine/Dextrostat)
5mg Dextromethamphetamine (Desoxyn)
10mg Racemic Methamphetamine ("Street Meth")
30-35mg Racemic Methylphenidate (Ritalin/Concerta)
15-20mg Dextromethylphenidate (Focalin)
60mg Propylhexedrine (Benzedrine/Benzedrex)
25-30mg Lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse)

A quick summary of my history of use with pharmaceutical stimulants:
I was first diagnosed with ADD (not ADHD) some years ago, while in high school, after undergoing an extensive testing process. It was determined that while I have a very high IQ, my attention span and need for immediate gratification, combined with short-term memory and word recall issues, was grounds for medication.
I was started on Adderall XR 20mg (racemic amphetamine) to be taken 1x in the morning. After 18 months, my dosage was increased to 30mg, taken as 20mg XR in AM and 10mg IR in the afternoon.
I needed a dose increase after 2.5 years, but my doctor decided to change the medication to see if Concerta (methylphenidate) would work better, so I was started on 36mg taken 1x/day in the morning. I did not respond well, and thinking that it might be due to the time-release system in Concerta, rather than the medication itself, I was switched to Methylin IR (methylphenidate) 20mg 2x/day after just 3 months.
After another 3 months, it just really wasn't working and I was miserable. My doctor put me back on Adderall, though this time it was only the instant-release formulation (it has been determined that I do not properly digest time-released medications, resulting in significantly diminished effect). I was prescribed 20mg AM and 20mg PM, and this was continued for another year.
Now, after 4 years, my Adderall dose was raised to 25mg AM and 25mg PM, for a total of 50mg of racemic amphetamine daily. I started having anxiety issues, and due to the escalating dose, I asked my doctor for a new medication.
Specifically, I asked for Dexedrine IR (dextro-amphetamine), which I was given. The beginning dose was 10mg AM and 10mg PM, though this was only for the first month to determine how the medication needed to be titrated. After my first month on it, I was put on 15mg AM and 10mg PM for about a year.
After being on Dexedrine for a year at a dosage of 25mg/day, it was raised to 20mg AM and 20mg PM, for a total of 40mg/day of dextroamphetamine. It was around this time that I developed Panic Disorder, and was prescribed Xanax (alprazolam) off-and-on to be taken PRN for anxiety. This also allowed my Dexedrine dose to increase, which was raised to 25mg AM and 20mg PM, for a total of 45mg/day. I took this dose for approximately 1 year.
Going on Year Seven, I knew that I could in no way keep upping my Dexedrine without exacerbating my Panic Disorder significantly, so I was on the hunt for a new drug. It was at this time that I really learned about Desoxyn (d,-methamphetamine), which I'd heard about but always in the guise of almost an "urban legend" of sorts. Rare, powerful, and expensive; how's that for sex appeal? Anyway, my doctor trusts me very much as a patient to research medications I think would be helpful, and is usually willing to prescribe them. So, I asked my doctor to switch me to it, although I really didn't think that it would happen, I figured it was worth a shot.
I'll be damned, I walked out of the office with a 'script for Desoxyn 5mg tablets (only available in the IR form) to take 10mg AM and 5mg PM. Right off the bat, it was a "WOW" feeling, even though this dose was lower, relatively, to my Dexedrine dose. The first impressions I had of Desoxyn were that it is very smooth (no jitters), kicks in very quickly (I began to feel it within 8-10min, orally), did not raise my resting heart rate or blood pressure (they both actually dropped from when on Dexedrine; from 82bpm and 142/94mmHg to 72bpm and 118/78mmHg), and did not increase my anxiety.
After a month, my dose was raised to 10mg AM and 10mg PM, so a total of 20mg dextro-methamphetamine daily. I have been on this dose for almost 2.5 years now, and it is only now, after 2.5ish years that I'll be increasing my dose. My August Rx will be for 15mg AM and 10mg PM, and my doctor is including 15 extra tablets to be taken PRN, ideally with my afternoon dose. This is to work my way up to 15mg AM/PM, or 30mg/day total.

Desoxyn gets a bad rap from a lot of people because they don't know what to expect when they take it. Dextromethamphetamine (Desoxyn), unlike most all other stimulants, causes a significant release of serotonin, and is even more of a serotonin agonist than a dopamine agonist, and it causes very little relative release of norepinepherine. In comparison, dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine) causes primarily dopamine release, followed by norepinepherine, with very little relative serotonin release.
Consequently, the "high" or euphoria one gets from Desoxyn is much more calming and much less "Up,up,up!Go,go,go!".

meggerz
03-08-2009, 22:55
i didnt enjoy speed that much.
i didnt enjoy coke that much.
meth was the best. it still is.=]

nasir~
03-08-2009, 23:18
Dextromethamphetamine (Desoxyn), unlike most all other stimulants, causes a significant release of serotonin, and is even more of a serotonin agonist than a dopamine agonist
that's not true.

d-meth releases a lot of dopamin, less norepinepherine and only little serotonin(still much more than d-amp)

hexxx
03-08-2009, 23:23
Quite a large difference between different amphetamines. Esp if you are comparing things like MDMA and other amphetamine like/type substances and the recreational derivatives of cathine/cathinone. I personally liked cathine (d-norpseudoephedrine) the most out of this class of drugs (excluding MDMA.) Extremely euphoric but extremely hard on your body, faster heartbeat and more vasoconstriction than meth / speed (assumed racemic amp salt). Methcathinone is definitely not a favourite - I'd prefer almost any other ATS of the phenethylamine family (except maybe Ritalin). PMA was pretty hardcore, very enjoyable but not advised. Don't even think of doing something strenuous on that stuff. Similar to MDMA but more "punch", a sit on your ass high where all you can do is think about how good you feel... and how the hell one pill can get you so messed up.

EDIT: Sorry didn't see you wanted Rx meds. Obviously the above mentioned stuff for the most part aren't available on script (unfortunately!).

stylishkidsriot
04-08-2009, 00:04
60mg Propylhexedrine (Benzedrine/Benzedrex)

Benzedrine was actually l-amp, if i remember correctly. Very interesting post, though.

Unknown
04-08-2009, 02:39
Obetrol was nothing like Adderall, it countained meth... Biphetamine (or black beauties) were more like Adderall, but still different (Biphet = 50/50 d-l amp and Adderall is more like 75/25 if I remember correctly)

EDIT.
Obetrol:
* 2.5mg methamphetamine saccharate
* 2.5mg methamphetamine hydrochloride
* 2.5mg (racemic dextro/levo-amphetamine) sulfate
* 2.5mg dextroamphetamine sulfate

(According to Wikipedia)

Its 78/22 for adderall ;)

Too many doses
04-08-2009, 03:03
I don't really like uppers but that 78/22 number unknown jumped out at me. Do you or anyone else know why it's such an uncommon ratio instead of say 75/25 or 80/20.

The Reanimator
04-08-2009, 05:56
Its 78/22 for adderall ;)
Is that based on molar mass or something? I was under the impression that Adderall contained 25% l-amp by mass.

Eagleman
04-08-2009, 07:18
From a former speed freak:

Pharms:
Adderall: a racemic mixture of levoamphetamine and dextroamphetamine. It can be potent and euphoric, but the l-amphetamine is responsible for the jitters, paranoia, anxiety and shit like that. The good: Will get you spun (for rec purposes), will get you "normal" (for medicinal purposes) The bad: The PNS stimulation from the levo sucks. Sometimes Adderall can be a rough ride.
Dexedrine / Vyvanse: contains dextroamphetamine only, the isomer responsible for most of the CNS stimulation, including the euphoria. Smoother than Adderall, and an excellent drug for rec / Rx.
Desoxyn (methamphetamine): don't let this drug fool you. A lot of people think this shit is gold, like a pure grade of the shit found on the streets (made in labs). The dosages are substantially lower so don't expect to get as spun as you would from street crank. As a medicine though, apparently it is the smoothest most effective stimulant, but it carries proven neurotoxicity.
Illicit Formulations:
Methamphetamine (street shit): although not the cleanest; when made right, this drug is great. And I stress WHEN MADE RIGHT, it can be smoked and vaporized cleanly, snorted, swallowed, injected...things you can't do with pharm speed. Highly addicting though, watch yourself, long term street meth abuse will turn you into the living dead. I've seen many tweakers fall prey to it (I myself got lucky, I still have all my teeth and never suffered any long term damage.) Hope this helps.

ebola?
06-08-2009, 07:35
Adderall: a racemic mixture of levoamphetamine and dextroamphetamine.

not racemic -- 2:1 ratio of dextro- to levo- isomers by weight.


The dosages are substantially lower so don't expect to get as spun as you would from street crank.

Milligram for milligram, they should be identical, given identical routes of administration.

ebola

nleksan
06-08-2009, 17:10
Milligram for milligram, they should be identical, given identical routes of administration.

ebola

In an ideal world, but keep in mind that Desoxyn is optically-pure dextro-methamphetamine, while street meth (or "homebrew meth") is going to contain some levo-methamphetamine as well, although how much depends entirely on the batch. Theoretically, it could be as high as 50% of the weight of the final product, making the street meth all the less potent by weight, especially when factoring in cuts. I understand that this is not usually the case, just stating it as a possibility. I would assume street meth has a ration of d,-meth to l,-meth of 4:1 or greater.

Captain.Heroin
06-08-2009, 17:34
In an ideal world, but keep in mind that Desoxyn is optically-pure dextro-methamphetamine, while street meth (or "homebrew meth") is going to contain some levo-methamphetamine as well, although how much depends entirely on the batch. Theoretically, it could be as high as 50% of the weight of the final product, making the street meth all the less potent by weight, especially when factoring in cuts. I understand that this is not usually the case, just stating it as a possibility. I would assume street meth has a ration of d,-meth to l,-meth of 4:1 or greater.

That's nice and all, but I don't necessarily believe you when you say most street meth has l-meth in it. I've seen plenty of DEA microgram bulletins of 99.9% to actual 100% (GC/MS) d-meth - kilos of it. I personally know people who only got clear shards most of the time they scored, and I'm pretty sure they were getting close to pure d-meth due to the way they described the experience.

There are also microgram bulletins where there's mostly (to almost completely) l-meth, so I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I guess it depends on the quality of the meth you get. I have an inkling ebola probably also sees mostly d-meth. I'm not a meth user (have only taken it once orally - through a roll which was a meth bomb) and I don't like stimulants. Also, meth is not very common where I come from at all. Everybody around here's all about the crack. :\

benzaldehyd
06-08-2009, 18:47
my german script for amphetamines (ADD)

http://www3.pic-upload.de/06.08.09/nt4ehtw4brhe.jpg

Whatsamatau
06-08-2009, 20:46
I'm lucky that I'm old enough and did my speeding at a pretty young age, that almost all my experience with amphetamines have been with the pharmacuticals that were around at the time.

Dexedrine - French Kline and Smith (FKS) 5mg orange hearts (heart shaped tablets)
I went through 400 hits in about a couple months toward the end of my junior year in HS (helped me get throug algebra trig) All time favorite with a lid of shitty mexican (why waste good weed while speeding)

Very euphoric, easy to titrate due to the granularity of the doses. Not so bad of a crash, but lets face it if you haven't slept for 48 -60 hours your not going to feel great.

Dexedrine - FKS -Time Release Capsules - many colorful beads- which were coded for strengh but I can't remember the breakdown. Famously known as "Christmas Trees"

Not as easily titrated no big rush on the front end

Benzedrine - manufacturer? mg? - White Crosses- white tablet scored to break into 4 pie sections thus the slang name, aka Bennies

Not as smooth as dex, but still a decent speed. Many people are confused about them, because there were a lot of bunk white crosses made toward the end and even when they were no longer legally made, but the real ones weren't bad.

Bi-Amphetamine - Black Beauties - manufacturer? mgs? A 50/50 d/l combo in a big fat black capsule.
Felt similar Benzedrine, except the shit would keep you up for almost twenty four hours. Only had one experience.

Methedrine - Desoxyn - Abbott Labs - 5mg yellow tablet - aka yellow abbotts

Very smooth to a fault in my opinion, more cerebral then body. Lasts about 10 hours.

ebola?
06-08-2009, 21:45
In an ideal world, but keep in mind that Desoxyn is optically-pure dextro-methamphetamine, while street meth (or "homebrew meth") is going to contain some levo-methamphetamine as well

Common syntheses that use pseudoephedrine or epherine as their precursor preserve the sterochemistry of the precursor, and OTC pharmaceutical pseudoephedrine and ephedrine preparations almost all contain a single stereoisomer. It also just so happens that OTC pseudoephedrine is the proper isomer to yield d-meth due to patent considerations (wikipedia).

So any l-meth on the streets is the result of some chemist having fucked up. Any clandestine preparations of mixed isomers would be someone trying to recoup the costs of a prior fuck-up without pissing off his customers completely.

Okay...so what types of impurities could explain differing 'feels' from different batches? Well, to the extent that unreacted ephedrine remains, it will make the product dirtier and jitterier. MSM is a completely inactive cut, so that one's out. And god only knows what makes it into mysterious pink powder. ;)

Now, other routes, such as those from P2P, could more plausibly yield racemic products, involve over-methylation into n,n-dimethylamphetamine, and so on.


I have an inkling ebola probably also sees mostly d-meth.

heh...I don't see meth these days. ;)

ebola

3DayRun
06-08-2009, 21:46
It makes me sad with the amount of misinformation going on in this thread when concerning methamphetamine.

First off, shards don't feel stronger because of unreacted impurities. I mean, really, what the fuck? How does this make any sense? What impurities? The red devill lye that people are allegedly smoking? Give me a break. This is just wrong.

Also, unless you are getting P2P dope then you aren't getting racemic meth. Today's cooks use pseudoephedrine which produces the D-isomer only. This is assuming either Birch reduction or Red, White, and Blue reduction. I am aware that producing the l-isomer is possible when using other methods, but this happens only in extremely rare cases.

The reason why Desoxyn is looked down on is that people take pathetic doses, because the theraputic index is so low. The pills are 5 milligram. Honestly, that's .005 weighed out. When is the last time anyone did .005 of shard and was satisfied? A carpet crawler will find more on a bad day than that.

Most people are not getting 100% pure product or even close. The vast majority is cut to shit and hovers (I'd wager) around 40% to 50%. The shit sucks, but even then, if you polish off a quarter gram (very easy to do in a night) you'll still have .125 of methamphetamine. Compare that to your .005 pill. I have a strange feeling that nobody here downed 25 pills at the same time.

It's common sense, folks, c'mon.

ebola?
06-08-2009, 23:09
The reason why Desoxyn is looked down on is that people take pathetic doses, because the theraputic index is so low.

Actually, the therapeutic index is quite high, as fatal acute overdose is quite rare compared with other stimulants.

ebola

3DayRun
06-08-2009, 23:50
Actually, the therapeutic index is quite high, as fatal acute overdose is quite rare compared with other stimulants.

ebola

You're absolutely right. I used that that phrase incorrectly. What I meant to say was that therapeutic doses are quite low compared to recreational doses.

hoxie08
07-08-2009, 09:36
adderall isnt that euphoric to me. just makes me sweat a lot and feel the need to work and keep moving lol. fun shit though, especially when a 30mg is about 2.50 in the area.

Cookie1456
07-08-2009, 12:19
In regards to those that say methamphetamine kicks amphetamine's chemical ass, remember that dexteromethamphetamine compared to dextroamphetamine and even racemic methamphetamine compared to racemic amphetamine will lead to extremely similar effects with differences being amphetamine is slightly weaker needing a slight dosage adjustment to be on par with the methamphetamine and methamphetamine is more neurotoxic than amphetamine, even methamphetamine at even therapeutic dosages can causes neurotoxic effects due to methamphetamines agonist affinity to 5-HT (serotonin) receptors in the CNS.

If one where to give, with dosages accordingly modified to compensate for the potency differences, amphetamine, benzamphetamine (basically an amphetanine prodrug because it's active metabolite amphetamine is the chemical largely responsible for the effects), or methamphetamine to very experienced users of amphetamines without telling what exact amphetamine compound it is, they would not be able to distinguish the effects produced from one amphetamine compared to the other two. Also, iit would not be possible for someone to be able to correctly label all three exactly the same looking amphetamine samples correctly based on what they are actually chemically.

I used to use Adderall (75% dextro and 25% levo isomers of amphetamine) recreationally for a little over a year, after a two month break I have been put on Vyvanse, the brand name for lisdexamfetamine. The name lisdexamfetamine is derived from the full chemical name of levolysine(lis)-dextroamp(f)hetamine, characters that are red have had their spelling changed and the new spelling in the between the ( )'s right next to the red text, now the full chemical name is made following my formatting and fist changing the red characters into their new spellings and then every letter is discarded except the characters in bold (the new spellings are bold), which are put into order from left to right to form lisdexamfetamine.

Lisdexamfetamine is an inactive prodrug of dextroamphetamine and is formed by attaching the molecule of levolysine (l-lysine) to the end of the dextroamphetamine molecule at the oppposite end from the benzene ring, making lisdexamfetamine inactive until it goes through first-pass metabolism (so it needs to be taken orally) in the GI to break some of the lisdexamfetamine into dextroamphetamine by having the body's enzymes fro the amino acid take the lysine molecule right off of the lisdexamfetamine. He is on it right now, it feels clean and long. Lisdexamfetamine being an inactive prodrug made with an amino acid means that is not efficiently metabolized into dextroamphetamine making a higher dosage of lisdexamfetamine to correlate with a lower dose of normal dextroamphetamne. And as said, lisdexamfetamine most be taken orally or else it is totally inactive.

Whatsamatau
07-08-2009, 18:53
If one where to give, with dosages accordingly modified to compensate for the potency differences, amphetamine, benzamphetamine (basically an amphetanine prodrug because it's active metabolite amphetamine is the chemical largely responsible for the effects), or methamphetamine to very experienced users of amphetamines without telling what exact amphetamine compound it is, they would not be able to distinguish the effects produced from one amphetamine compared to the other two. Also, iit would not be possible for someone to be able to correctly label all three exactly the same looking amphetamine samples correctly based on what they are actually chemically.



I never cared what kind of speed I got (pharmacutical wise), they always seemed to have pretty much the same effect, but I was never a speed freak per se, just did some thorough research;) when I was young and healthy.

I also have to add that I grew up with a retarted (yes I'm old school) brother, and they tried all kinds of psychoactive drugs on him to keep him from getting overexited. Well at one time he was taking Ritalin and I accidentally took a few. Now I will speak blasphemy - as far as I'm concerned it just felt like another speed. Go runs and hides.....................

bighooter
07-08-2009, 19:22
im in england

Ive never come across crystal meth only done speed and ritalin.
speed = dirty buzz, absoloutely horrific comedown
ritalin = very nice and clean buzz, again absoloutely horrific comedown (more mental than physical)

3DayRun
07-08-2009, 19:56
Wait, wait, isn't amphetamine more active on norepinephrine than methamphetamine and methamphetamine much more active when it comes to 5-HT? Sure, I get sped up, when I do a heroic dose of meth I get a very relaxed, speedy, euphoria. Hell, I eat enough high quality shard and I'll get eye wiggles and feel like I have a roll coming on.

ebola?
07-08-2009, 21:17
methamphetamine is also a great deal more selective for dopamine (versus norepinephrine) than amphetamine (as you implied). This likely accounts for a great deal more of the differences in effects than 5ht efflux.

ebola

neversayno
07-07-2010, 10:13
adderall has been making me think of the most unusual sex desires, like swimming naked at my neighbors pool with a prostitute and a sack of crack

fryingsquirrel
07-07-2010, 10:47
In an ideal world, but keep in mind that Desoxyn is optically-pure dextro-methamphetamine, while street meth (or "homebrew meth") is going to contain some levo-methamphetamine as well, although how much depends entirely on the batch. Theoretically, it could be as high as 50% of the weight of the final product, making the street meth all the less potent by weight, especially when factoring in cuts. I understand that this is not usually the case, just stating it as a possibility. I would assume street meth has a ration of d,-meth to l,-meth of 4:1 or greater.Meth made from cold pills is 100% d, meth, due to the isomer of the pills. P2P dope is racemic, 50-50.

Psychonauticunt
07-07-2010, 11:46
From personal experience, dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine) kicks the shit out of racemic amphetamine (which is what Adderall is). I discern that the only differences between the two could only be that Adderall also contains levoamphetamine. All the good effects were the same, but Adderall gave me shittier side effects.

Captain.Heroin
07-07-2010, 12:20
that's not true.

d-meth releases a lot of dopamin, less norepinepherine and only little serotonin(still much more than d-amp)
This is true.

Personally I find dexedrine and meth to be the best. Meth is nice because of ROA choices, and also duration, but dexedrine is very "smooth", and is less tolerance inducing.

Captain.Heroin
07-07-2010, 12:22
From personal experience, dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine) kicks the shit out of racemic amphetamine (which is what Adderall is). I discern that the only differences between the two could only be that Adderall also contains levoamphetamine. All the good effects were the same, but Adderall gave me shittier side effects.

In my experience I also like Dexedrine a lot more.

I personally find Adderall to have a "different" sort of high which is more jaw clenching/adrenaline rush, and dexedrine is more of a relaxing, euphoric, "clean" feeling high. As for ADHD purposes, Adderall is good if I need to clean up the house, but Dexedrine is better for when you need to sit still and still get stuff accomplished.

Psychonauticunt
07-07-2010, 21:49
Yep. Dexedrine is the clean, mind-stimulating drug, whereas Adderall is the speed that makes your hair stand on end.

wtblife
17-07-2010, 16:39
I've always found adderall to be better for when I want to do work, it seems like it has more effects on my mind than just plain dextro from dexedrine. Vyvanse is good because it lasts so long and is good for avoiding abuse, but I don't really get any euphoria from it and it is just kind of disappointing.