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"When dcotors can't say no" - CNN

Ufotofu9

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
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"When doctors can't say no" - CNN

Well this outta add more fuel to an already out of control fire:

(CNN) -- When singer Michael Jackson asked for the anesthetic, Diprivan, to help him get a good night's sleep, nurse practitioner Cherilyn Lee told CNN, she refused, telling the pop star that if he took the medicine, he might never wake up.

Music legend Michael Jackson, who died June 25, was reprtedly told "no" by several health care providers.

When Jackson asked Dr. Deepak Chopra for a narcotic, Chopra said he told Jackson absolutely no. "I said to him, 'Michael, you're going to die one day from this,'" Chopra told CNN in a recent interview.

But apparently other doctors had a very hard time saying "no" to Michael Jackson.

During a world tour in the mid-'90s, sources close to Jackson told CNN that the pop star suffered from insomnia and traveled with an anesthesiologist who would "take him down" at night and then "bring him back up." According to a report on a 2004 Santa Barbara police investigation, security guards in Jackson's inner circle said he traveled the country getting prescriptions from doctors.

"Michael's addiction was ultimately created by doctors," Chopra said.

Experts on doctor behavior said physicians often have a tough time saying no to requests from a patient -- even when the patient isn't a celebrity.

"There's constant pressure to say yes to things even when it's not in the patient's best interest," said Dr. Joseph Weiner, chief of consultation psychiatry at North Shore University Hospital in Manhasset, New York. "It's become an everyday dilemma."

For example, he said doctors sometimes say yes to demands for antibiotics even in cases of the common cold, or submit to demands for drugs advertised on television when that drug isn't the best choice. Sometimes, patients who are at the end of life ask for extensive tests and treatments, and doctors acquiesce even when they know death is imminent and unavoidable.

The situation has become so bad that doctors have written articles suggesting ways to refuse patients' requests tactfully. "We're often unready to say no to patients when they want a particular prescription or test, even if it is unwarranted," write physicians in the Permanente Journal. The article goes on to give advice on the art of saying "no."

Of course, money is sometimes a motive for appeasing patients, Weiner said. "You don't want to lose that patient. You figure if you don't do what they want, they'll go to someone else, so you don't want to say no," said Dr. Francesca Fusco, a cosmetic dermatologist in New York.

But there are more than just financial forces at work. Fusco said doctors go into medicine because they want to help people, and sometimes that good instinct goes bad. "We want to make patients happy," she said.

Sometimes time -- or lack of it -- is the culprit. "Doctors want to get the patient in and out in five minutes, so it's much easier to just write the prescription the patient asks for," Chopra said.

Another reason doctors say yes when they really want to say no has to do with the changing nature of the doctor-patient relationship.

"In the current environment in which patients are supposed to be treated like customers, there is sometimes the expectation that the customer is always right and should get whatever is asked for," said Dr. Danielle Ofri, assistant professor of medicine at New York University School of Medicine.

Ofri remembers once agreeing to a patient's request for drugs -- and regretting it. The patient asked her for a high dose of oxycodone for back pain. When she hesitated, he became upset and accused her of not believing him when he said his back hurt. With misgivings, Ofri gave him the prescription.

"For the rest of the day, I walked around with a terrible feeling in my stomach," Ofri said. "I really wished I'd said no."

The next day, the patient knocked on her door and handed her the prescription. "I lied to you," the patient told Ofri. "I'm very sorry, and I'm not sure what came over me, but I lied and I owe you an apology." Ofri said she was "stunned, but relieved."

The "just say no" problem is particularly evident in the world of cosmetic medicine, where patients often demand yet another face-lift, more Botox, or another injection of filler in their lips. Fusco said she tells her students at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine that when a patient's request is inappropriate, they need to take the time to explain why.

"Ninety-five percent of the time, patients will agree with me and not push for more," she said. "The other 5 percent I won't see again, but I'd rather not see them if they're walking down the street and their lips turn the corner before they do.
 
I like how the doctors created the problem....... Everyone is acting like MJ was innocent, he wanted the drugs and if you seek you shall find which is what he did.
 
I don't know about this article. Most of the time my doctors have no trouble telling me "no".
 
drno.jpg
 
Yeah, I thought that the idea was that docs don't say no to celebrities.

I certainly have no problems finding a doctor to tell me "no."
 
In the USA we have a cultural attitude that responsibility for narcotics rests solely with the physician, so even if the patient is drug seeking the physician is at fault.
 
I have had a harder time finding doctors to say yes than no lol.

It is fucked how celebrities are always absolved of all responsibility for their actions, actions that would often lead to a "normal" person being deemed a scumbag. Obviously some doctors are irresponsible but when a rich person travels the country in search of doctors he can fool into dishing out narcotics he is going to hit the jackpot eventually.

I personally don't even think such a thing as prescriptions should exist. I think there should be a "doctors consultancy certificate" or something to that effect. This would basically be a certificate signed by a doctor that indicates you have went and discussed your healthcare needs with a professional but when you walk into a pharmacy ANY treatment you desire should be available to you as it is your body you are making the decision for. As long as you atleast consult a healthcare professional to get an informed opinion I think your treatment/medications should be up to you.
 
not sure about that, i recently used a selection of hints and clues to get my hands on modafinil which by adventually the dr said he would not prescribe as it is a very advanced medication and no one GP in the country would prescribe it..

balls.. i herd the NHS have fake drugs anyway xP
 
If the patient is fully informed of the risks and has the cash to pay for it, he should get anything he wants. No more prescriptions required or denied. People have to look out for themselves and learn personal responsibility. That won't happen though.

I see things moving more toward collectivism where the individual no longer exists but is only a component part of society. All decisions are for the good of the collective body of society. Individual needs and choices are becoming no longer relevant. Society, governed by the elite, owns you. Health care will be rationed out. Non-productive (aged, infirm) members of society will be lowest priority and left to die. It's a crappy world.

Anyway, doctors should inform patients with the truth and always say "yes".
 
Music legend Michael Jackson, who died June 25, was reprtedly told "no" by several health care providers....



...

"Michael's addiction was ultimately created by doctors," Chopra said.

so he was doctor-shopping? isn't that a felony?
 
im sure it was alot easier for Michael to get his hands on some OCs than a normal person. he probably just gave em a shitload of money and they wrote him a script for whatever he wanted, not thinking it would KILL him...
 
If the patient is fully informed of the risks and has the cash to pay for it, he should get anything he wants. No more prescriptions required or denied. People have to look out for themselves and learn personal responsibility. That won't happen though.

I see things moving more toward collectivism where the individual no longer exists but is only a component part of society. All decisions are for the good of the collective body of society. Individual needs and choices are becoming no longer relevant. Society, governed by the elite, owns you. Health care will be rationed out. Non-productive (aged, infirm) members of society will be lowest priority and left to die. It's a crappy world.

Anyway, doctors should inform patients with the truth and always say "yes".

Oh for Christ's sake. I'm assuming you live in the United States and have bought into the "Obama's experiment with socialism" meme. This assumption may be wrong; please correct me if it is.

Anyone who thinks Obama's proposals are even remotely akin to socialism needs to actually spend some time in a socialist country like Sweden. The people there live better than we do in the United States. And, as another plus, they are not nearly so provincial and nationalistic.

The real affronts to liberty in this nation are numerous and vile, don't get me wrong. Women are all but forced to give birth in hospitals because of restrictions on midwifery. Routine medical procedures that need not be routine brutalize people. My boyfriend just got his asshole sliced open so they could ram a camera up there and then cut off a hunk of flesh. Why? Because he had abdominal pain. Fucking ridiculous. Nothing is wrong with him, of course, aside from poor diet resulting in irritable bowels. Not to mention the sickeningly routine nature of c-sections and episiotomies (slicing up a woman's vagina to prevent tearing, even though -- as with a sheet of paper -- slicing something renders it more EASILY torn). What you're focused on is so superficial and dogmatic. The medical establishment is evil, but not because it won't hand out painkillers like candy. It is evil because it lies (vis. tobacco deception), it gouges (hundreds of dollars a month for most prescription medications), and it brutalizes.
 
What? lol you kinda ranted all over the place there.

Just throwing it out there, how many of you yanks are happy with the US health system?
 
The real affronts to liberty in this nation are numerous and vile, don't get me wrong. Women are all but forced to give birth in hospitals because of restrictions on midwifery. Routine medical procedures that need not be routine brutalize people. My boyfriend just got his asshole sliced open so they could ram a camera up there and then cut off a hunk of flesh. Why? Because he had abdominal pain. Fucking ridiculous. Nothing is wrong with him, of course, aside from poor diet resulting in irritable bowels.

Yeah, they probably should have just assumed he didn't have cancer and given him some bowel cleaners and soybeans instead. Fuck modern diagnostic medicine. I think we have the same GNC rep, cause he told me the same thing!
 
Static Mind,
I have dual citizenship in Spain and the U.S so I will quickly compare the two:

Spain: Universal Healthcare, free emergency care, free doctors but a wait of several weeks to see one, cheap prescription drugs.

U.S.: Private insurance companies, semi-public for poor and elderly, Emergency care is required but you pay out the ass until you are bankrupt if you ever have to go for an emergency , insultingly expensive prescription drugs, expensive doctors who require and appointment several weeks in advance to see.

In the U.S they pay more per capita for healthcare than in any other country, but only receive the 72nd ranked healthcare provided.

Nuff said. I honestly can't think of a single advantage (for consumers) in the U.S under a private healthcare system than the Universal one in Spain. We even pay less for it in Spain.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

I just can't see how American's can possibly put up with their shitty system.
 
I live in the US, and I can see my doctor pretty much any time I want. I have no problem with my health care.
 
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