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fume
07-07-2009, 17:49
Taking codeine and other pain killers decrease test levels in men??

PARooolller
07-07-2009, 17:51
YES...I don't have the time to search around for any studies but IME, the use of opiates definately lowers free test levels in men...

fume
07-07-2009, 17:55
What dramaticly or slight reduction??8o

bighooter
07-07-2009, 17:55
yes

but recreational use is on the same wave length as alcohol for reducing test levels<<< if used recreationally

Tchort
07-07-2009, 18:09
I'm not convinced personally. Let's see some studies.

fume
07-07-2009, 18:45
imo they do i take or used to take opiates and benzos and my sex drive was zero no desire at all and know morning wood,So thats an indication of low test level's..

Tchort
07-07-2009, 19:03
imo they do i take or used to take opiates and benzos and my sex drive was zero no desire at all and know morning wood,So thats an indication of low test level's..

That is not in and of itself evidence of anything related to testosterone. Heroin was an aphrodesiac for me, Methadone reduces my sex drive. If opioids in general reduced testosterone, there would be other symptoms.

I think confusion is what leads users and laymen to believe there is a connection between testosterone production/levels and opioid use.

norco
07-07-2009, 19:54
do they lower your sperm count too?

KStoner6tb
07-07-2009, 20:31
J Pain. 2006 Mar;7(3):200-10. Links
Open-label pilot study of testosterone patch therapy in men with opioid-induced androgen deficiency.

Daniell HW, Lentz R, Mazer NA.
Department of Family Practice, University of California Davis Medical School, Redding, California, USA.
We conducted a 24-week open-label pilot study of testosterone (T) patch therapy in 23 men with opioid-induced androgen deficiency (OPIAD). The T dosage was 5 mg/day for the first 12 weeks and 7.5 mg/day for the second 12 weeks. Seven subjects discontinued prematurely: 4 for noncompliance, 2 for skin irritation and 1 for hepatitis C treatment. In the "completers" population (n = 16), mean (SD) free T levels (normal range 52 to 280 pg/mL) were 28.5 (18.6) pg/mL at baseline, 72.8 (29.6) pg/mL on 5 mg/day (P < .001 vs. baseline), and 120.2 (69.5) pg/mL on 7.5 mg/day (P < .001 vs. baseline and P < .01 vs. 5 mg/day). Total T, dihydrotestosterone, and estradiol showed parallel changes. Sex hormone-binding globulin levels were elevated at baseline and decreased modestly with treatment (P < .05 vs. baseline at 5 mg/day; P < .01 vs. baseline at 7.5 mg/day). Luteinizing hormone levels were in the low-normal range at baseline and suppressed markedly with treatment (P < .001 vs. baseline at both doses). Androgen deficiency symptoms (ADSQ), sexual function (Watts SFQ), mood (PGWB), depression (BDI-II), and hematocrit levels showed improvement during treatment, generally more so at the 7.5 mg/day dosage (P < .001 vs. baseline for most parameters). Pain scores (BPI-SF) decreased slightly on 7.5 mg/day (interference score: P < .05 vs. baseline and 5 mg/day); the use of opioids did not change appreciably. The testosterone patches were generally well tolerated. PERSPECTIVE: Long-acting opioid preparations suppress the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis in men and produce a symptomatic state of opioid-induced androgen deficiency (OPIAD). Testosterone patch therapy at a dose of 7.5 mg/day normalizes hormone levels and appears to improve a number of quality of life parameters (eg, sexual function, well-being, mood) in men with OPIAD.

Captain.Heroin
07-07-2009, 21:38
That is not in and of itself evidence of anything related to testosterone. Heroin was an aphrodesiac for me, Methadone reduces my sex drive. If opioids in general reduced testosterone, there would be other symptoms.

I think confusion is what leads users and laymen to believe there is a connection between testosterone production/levels and opioid use.

I agree with Tchort.

KStoner6tb
07-07-2009, 22:27
I agree with Tchort.

good

suessmayr
08-07-2009, 06:17
It's difficult as laypeople to know exactly what sorts of behaviours are produced by testosterone. But I do notice that when on opiates I get extremely irritable and aggressive if anyone interferes with me or annoys me, especially when coming down and over the ensuing days. I literally walk around wanting someone to piss me off so I can physically let go at them. Also I lose interest entirely in gentle sexual intercourse, I just want to smash whomever I am with at the time. Maybe these are irrelevant observations but I thought that perhaps they relate somehow to testosterone levels in the body.

Desdenova
08-07-2009, 06:32
When I started with my Pain Management clinic, and they had me sign the contract, they also gave me sort of a fact sheet, talking about the side effects, common misconceptions about opioids, addiction vs. physical dependence, etc.

One of the things in there is a disclaimer that they might periodically test my testosterone levels, as chronic opioid use can lower it

morphonorconic
08-07-2009, 23:35
It's difficult as laypeople to know exactly what sorts of behaviours are produced by testosterone. But I do notice that when on opiates I get extremely irritable and aggressive if anyone interferes with me or annoys me, especially when coming down and over the ensuing days. I literally walk around wanting someone to piss me off so I can physically let go at them. Also I lose interest entirely in gentle sexual intercourse, I just want to smash whomever I am with at the time. Maybe these are irrelevant observations but I thought that perhaps they relate somehow to testosterone levels in the body.

Certain Opioids, especially when taken at higher doses, can make me very irritable as well, especially Oxycodone for whatever reason. Even though I feel good, I get frustrated at the smallest things that otherwise wouldn't really bother me.

I have wondered myself if this might have something to do with Testosterone levels, even though I am inclined to think that it does not. I have never taken any steroids, but I would imagine some of their effects to be somewhat similar: Marked euphoria and energy with pronounced agitation/irritability.

bighooter
08-07-2009, 23:49
^^^

good post I agree

Whenever I take poppy pod tea I am EXTREMELY irritable... I snap at the littlest of things, even though I feel good

however on heroin I feel calm and mellow.

Eight0Eight
09-07-2009, 00:24
Opiates make me chill - regardless of type.

And no, I haven't notice my sex-drive decrease at all.

I mean, when using given a choice between dope and sex I will choose dope - but if I have the opportunity of sex I will jump at it.

Unknown
09-07-2009, 04:40
I have never heard of testosterone reduction from any mu opiate agonists. I know urinary constriction and decreased sex drive is a side effect, but interaction with the sex hormones, no.

PinK~cloud
09-07-2009, 04:49
i have a significant decrease in sex drive. even if my girlfriend is all over me i find i hard to want to have sex. kinda sucks.

caizar
09-07-2009, 09:16
I take steroids test to be excact,500mg One shot mon monday one on friday,So i have high synfetic test levels natural test is lil lol..8o

OpiodSlave
09-07-2009, 09:19
I read all the posts. I personally feel, if it decreases the sex drive it probably does, temporarily lower testosterone. But, at this point I'm also not totally convinced...I'm just saying where I'd put my money.

Tchort
09-07-2009, 16:05
It'd be my guess that drop in blood pressure and general CNS depression is what leads to impotence/disinterest in sex. Certain opioids are NMDA antagonists (Methadone), which seems to make tactile stimuli less intense (so sexual contact/foreplay doesn't have any effect, or minimal effect).

While some may exhibit lower testosterone levels after lengthy Heroin or Methadone daily dosing, I'm still more willing to believe other factors (such as typical addict lifestyle; lack of proper nutrition, etc) are more liable for lower testosterone levels than the opioid itself.

phrozen
15-04-2011, 02:51
Bump.

rath
15-04-2011, 03:00
http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/109/1/20
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16516826

phrozen
15-04-2011, 03:36
Thanks for the links. :)

I bumped it to save it from the prune.

eyeswideshut
15-04-2011, 05:37
i am really concerned about my hormone levels and maintaining normal endocrine functioning.

from what ive read though, it shouldnt be much of a concern unless I am a daily user? i never use more frequently than once a week, but every 2 weeks or so is more accurate (oxycodone; always 40mg or less)...

mr. mudd
15-04-2011, 17:08
the effect on hormones depends on the user. in my case, opiates lowered my free testosterone pretty dramatically.

being irritable is not necessarily the result of testosterone. when my mother was dying of cancer and taking dilaudid she got irritable from the drugs, but I didn't see her starting to grow a mustache.

Tchort
18-04-2011, 06:47
Just like to chime in that I have completely reversed my earlier position on this topic :)

Some opioids are far more well known to cause lower LH, Testosterone, Prolactin, etc levels than others. Methadone is a particularly nasty culprit.


Plasma Testosterone and Sexual Function in Men Receiving Buprenorphine Maintenance for Opioid Dependence
Niclaas Bliesener, Susanne Albrecht, Andra Schwager, Klaus Weckbecker, Dirk Lichtermann and Dietrich Klingmüller
Department of Clinical Biochemistry (N.B., A.S., D.K.), Division of Endocrinology; Department of Psychiatry (S.A., D.L.), and Café Ersatz Methadone Maintenance Clinic (S.A., D.L.), University of Bonn, 53105 Bonn, Germany; and General Practitioner (K.W.), Bad Honnef, Germany

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. Niclaas Bliesener, Department of Clinical Biochemistry, Division of Endocrinology, University of Bonn, Sigmund Freud Strasse 25, 53105 Bonn, Germany. E-mail: nbliesener@yahoo.com.

High-dose methadone is well known to cause testosterone deficiency and sexual dysfunction in opioid-dependent men. Buprenorphine is a new drug for the pharmacotherapy of opioid dependence. Its influence on the gonadal axis has not been investigated to date. We therefore assayed testosterone, free testosterone, estradiol, SHBG, LH, FSH, and prolactin in 17 men treated with buprenorphine. Thirty-seven men treated with high-dose methadone and 51 healthy blood donors served as controls. Sexual function and depression were assessed using a self-rating sexual function questionnaire and the Beck Depression Inventory. Patients treated with buprenorphine had a significantly higher testosterone level [5.1 ± 1.2 ng/ml (17.7 ± 4.2 nmol/liter) vs. 2.8 ± 1.2 ng/ml (9.7 ± 4.2 nmol/liter); P < 0.0001] and a significantly lower frequency of sexual dysfunction (P < 0.0001) compared with patients treated with methadone. The testosterone level of buprenorphine-treated patients did not differ from that of healthy controls. In conclusion, we demonstrated for the first time that buprenorphine, in contrast with high-dose methadone, seems not to suppress plasma testosterone in heroin-addicted men. To this effect, buprenorphine was less frequently related to sexual side effects. Buprenorphine might therefore be favored in the treatment of opioid dependence to prevent patients from the clinical consequences of methadone-induced hypogonadism.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/1/203

A number of personality changes can be linked to these hormonal changes, even if you completely disregard erectile dysfunction and other sexually related problems (anorgasmia, etc)- which on their own can cause psychological problems.


Low testosterone is defined as less than 300 nanograms per deciliter of blood. The symptoms of low testosterone include low sex drive, erectile dysfunction, mood problems, fatigue, and sleep disturbances. Of all men with below-normal testosterone levels, about one-half to two-thirds report symptoms.

Unlike a woman’s menopause, when estrogen levels plummet over months to very low levels, men’s “andropause” is a gradual decline of testosterone levels over years. The effects of low testosterone can be insidious, even go unnoticed.

Some men with low testosterone levels have symptoms without recognizing them, Herbst says. “They may still have a sex drive, but not realize how much it’s declined,” she says.

Men with symptoms of low testosterone can have significant impairment in quality of life. Current medical thinking is “these men should be treated with testosterone replacement,” Herbst says.

Low testosterone can be replaced by using a daily skin gel, patches worn on the skin, orally disintegrating tablets, or injections. The general recommendations are to raise the blood testosterone level only into the normal range.

http://men.webmd.com/features/low-testosterone-explained-how-do-you-know-when-levels-are-too-low

Captain.Heroin
18-04-2011, 06:54
The testosterone level of buprenorphine-treated patients did not differ from that of healthy controls.

Good stuff! %)

Pegasus
18-04-2011, 07:07
^Yep, awesome study there!

RedRum OG
20-10-2012, 10:14
My question is simple. We know that chronic opiate use lowers testosterone, if someone had an opiate habit that caused them long lasting and/or intense withdrawals with long term sobriety, would testosterone levels be raised during these periods?

I'm curious because I was on tar for a good while, and Suboxone for another good while to straighten myself out and stay steady.IME both these have unfortunately persistent PAWS even with months or beyond with abstinence. I just like to know about these things.

F1n1shed
20-10-2012, 10:24
I think it'll come back and reverse its self. Luckily my withdrawals always go away pretty quick, no PAWS bs for me.

Swimmingdancer
20-10-2012, 10:45
Hormonal changes due to opioids, and their direction and duration, seem to vary greatly from person to person and situation to situation. For example for me in the past when I stopped opioids or lowered my dose I found I was hornier and could orgasm more easily, but this time around tapering off methadone (I've reduced my dose by 90% after being on methadone for years), I have absolutely no libido and have a lot of symptoms of hormonal imbalances (which became noticeable after I started lowering my dose, strangely). But often people find their hormone levels are depressed while on opioids and go up a lot when they quit opioids, think of heroin addicts in withdrawal spontaneously cumming themselves. So I think it's not a very predictable thing, it probably depends on a whole bunch of factors (what drug, how long you took it, at what dose, any pre-existing predispositions to hormonal problems, exercise, mental health, etc etc) and on your individual body. I don't think there's a standard change and standard duration of said change. And I suspect a lot of different hormones and neurotransmitters are affected. So I can't speculate on whether your testosterone levels are raised, and if so, how long it will last. I do know it generally takes a very long time for your brain and body to recover from long-term use of Suboxone or methadone though.

sludgefactory101
16-12-2012, 10:24
ive been intrigued by this ever since i started taking opiates and learned they lower it. as an avid fitness freak and somewhat intermediate weightlifter, i want to know is they affect it enough to cause significant changes? like do they slow down the growth of facial hair? i have a long goatee and would like to start to measure it when im on them and off them to see if growth slows. also does it prevent the building of muscle? i have had some frequent use of opiates this entire year and started weightlifting a month before i started doing them. i have quite a decent bit of muscle and am wondering if that when you include exercise, the testosterone doesn't even get lowered enough to be a significant matter.

Captain.Heroin
16-12-2012, 10:27
I don't know how easy it would be to quantify this. You could say "person A went from ### to ###..." and you can do the math, but without knowing what your level already is, it's going to be hard to extrapolate the trend and apply it to your own levels to see what it would do.

Buprenorphine doesn't hinder testosterone production.

Heroin does, and methadone is the worst culprit that I can think of.

BTW, how long is your goatee?

sludgefactory101
16-12-2012, 10:35
ah ok. i have a sheet from when i had a blood test done in the beginning of the year where it showed what my level was. doctor told me my free testosterone level was fine, and that that testosterone is what effects everything, but the other type of testosterone was on the low side of being normal, but it didn't matter. and my goatee is 4 inches all curly and shit. 7 inches when i straighten it

wrongdose
16-12-2012, 10:48
I can only speak from the female perspective about estrogen. I have been on oxy since 2006. in 2010 I found out I was infertile because my estrogen was zilch - not only that the precursor hormones and LH/FSH and growth hormones were also dangerously low. I now take HRT because my osteoporosis and heart disease risks are so high. In regards to exercise, I do a fair bit of strength stuff and this hasn't. Helped at all unfortunately, even pregnancy didn't boost my hormones and the endocrinologist said this was the ultimate boost that might fix things.

My advice from experience is to take HRT earlier than later because of the way the pituitary can become 'exhausted'. you can always stop when you don't take opiates anymore.unless things like exercise and natural supplements help and I know many men who say they do - Maca is a good one. Hth, it's a not fun but serious side to opiate use that not many people discuss.

Phat5o
16-12-2012, 11:14
^as a man you can't just stop hrt

mydrugbuddy
16-12-2012, 11:54
If ability to frequently ejaculate sperm is a measure of testosterone, then it has a massive effect. I've gone from almost daily, to about once a month. I only try every few days now and give up after a few minutes, as i can feel that nothing is going to happen.

But it has no effect on lust and lechery etc. In fact they seem to increase. This produces a frustrating outcome as you can imagine.

Tommyboy
16-12-2012, 12:12
ive been intrigued by this ever since i started taking opiates and learned they lower it. as an avid fitness freak and somewhat intermediate weightlifter, i want to know is they affect it enough to cause significant changes? like do they slow down the growth of facial hair? i have a long goatee and would like to start to measure it when im on them and off them to see if growth slows. also does it prevent the building of muscle? i have had some frequent use of opiates this entire year and started weightlifting a month before i started doing them. i have quite a decent bit of muscle and am wondering if that when you include exercise, the testosterone doesn't even get lowered enough to be a significant matter.

We have a thread on this topic here (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/573042-Opiates-Lower-Testosterone), but I'm going to merge this with the other thread on the topic since it's already in this forum. Please search before posting.

Merged.

synthetix
16-12-2012, 16:58
If ability to frequently ejaculate sperm is a measure of testosterone, then it has a massive effect. I've gone from almost daily, to about once a month. I only try every few days now and give up after a few minutes, as i can feel that nothing is going to happen.

But it has no effect on lust and lechery etc. In fact they seem to increase. This produces a frustrating outcome as you can imagine.

completely agree with this. i can't finish on opiates for shit - i can be going for 4-5 hours and i won't come. its just impossible. it's agony for my girlfriend and me too. i thought it would be helpful for my sex life but no it seemed to kill it. as for ejaculation outside of sex - i even forget about it completely, i have no desire to jack off so to speak.

as for the lust etc. when i wasnt in a relationship yes i agree completely - i wanted sex all the time and didn't get it which also fucked me off. now that i am in a relationship the sexual desire i have when not on opiates toward my girlfriend (and any girl for that matter) is completely gone.

ryand123
16-12-2012, 17:43
Synthetix- i thought my dick was BROKEN until i read your last post! when i was using heroin i couldnt come, i had no sexual urge, everything you just said down to a tee. The scary thing is, now that im on bupe for over a year now, it hasnt gone away!!! my dick still doesnt work like it supposed to. sometimes i just cant get hard AT ALL. No matter what my woman does it just wont work sometimes. and it makes both of us feel like shit.

synthetix
16-12-2012, 18:32
Yeah man I completely feel your problem, I have it as well. And whenever I take an opiate break, I suffer terribly from premature ejaculation for about 2-3 months (I literally mean a few thrusts and I'm finished.) I don't know how opiates affect that system but my god is it irritating and embarrassing. This is on oxy but on bupe I found the situation worse actually, even though I was only on it for 2 days I couldn't get it up no matter what I tried. I think it's a common problem with opiate users, and I absolutely hate it when I take a break from them. It seems like forever till I can have sex normally, and I have a massive urge to wank every hour.

Glad I'm not alone with this one. Your dick isn't broken trust me - take a day off and you'll cum in a few seconds.

It really is a fucking nuseance to me and my mrs, I hate it. My mrs always ends up depressed when i dont finish, and it starts to hurt her quite badly (so after an hour or so we have to use a lubricant or stop but by then shes usually had a few orgasms and is like a dead body which is so offputting and depressig.) when I was on my 6 month break after 3 months I was finally back to a normal sex routine - could last 20-30mins which is ideal for me and my partner.

Pegasus
16-12-2012, 20:21
This is all dose dependent too, for example if you're too sedated to ejaculate for days on end, you're hindering yourself more than a person who doses lower or more infrequently and keeps ejaculating. I think if your sex drive is suppressed for an extended period, you're clearly messing with your hormone levels quite a bit.

belfort
16-12-2012, 20:52
for those thinking that since they get very irritable on opiods that it raises or lowers testosterone, they are way off..testosterone does not produce 'roid rage' like so many still like to believe..in fact, most steroid users generally feel in better spirits on the drug..i also remember getting quite irritable while on opiods but i can get that way on benzos as well..

the longer i used opiates-iods like oxycontin and heroin, the more my sex drive became depressed..it got to the point where i virtually had zero sex drive, just no desire at all..i have been off opiods for years and i still believe my sex drive is lower than it should be..

im a firm believers that opiates lower sex drive and i cant imagine any long term heroin addicts that think heroin is an aphrodisiac...people that use it occasionally i can understand but not addicts..

belfort
16-12-2012, 20:57
ryand123-similar problems here and it sucks..i recently bought some yohimbe 451 and it helps in that department..you want to try it out..even still though, my sexual desire is low but my ability to perform is better lol....

laCster
16-12-2012, 22:16
When I first got on suboxone, I could not cum to save my life, like literally my partner or my arm would get tired way before I would orgasm and I would just get bored lolol.

After being on bupre for a good 6 months, I have no such troubles at all

Mass08
17-12-2012, 02:58
If evreyone is nervous about their sex drive just have peace in mind in the fact that once you stop taking opiates your sex drive is literally the first thing that rebounds.

Lady Codone
17-12-2012, 09:49
Woman here.

I don't know whether opiates affect testosterone, but if they did I can assume it would happen in both sexes and not just men. When I used poppy tea daily, my period was EXTREMELY irregular and came late every single month which isn't the norm for me. I've seen similar stories from other ladies but don't know the exact mechanism. (I've heard it's the same effect as heavy exercising and has to do with endorphin levels, but that sounds a bit off to me).

Also, my sex drive was through the roof on opiates.

mydrugbuddy
17-12-2012, 11:38
^^^^^Yeah i feel as as horny as ever, probably even more so, as i cant get any release from 1 week to the next. Being able to 'knock one off' easily would keep my lust and lechery to a much more easily controllable level.

wrongdose
17-12-2012, 13:55
In women it is called hypothalamic ammenorea. Your pituitary basically slows right down, the latest research is showing that it seems to be the length of time you take the opiates rather than high dose over short time. Even low doses have dramatic effects on hormones over time.

In men with low testosterone, one of the main psych symptoms is irritability in response to an earlier post.

Men, but some women too, apparently get hormone 'rushes' in wds...that totally horny wd thing. It's usually considered to be a testosterone thung, because it's a quick response hormone but I know lots of women who get this too.