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Harm Reduction ⫸CASE STUDIES - It could happen to YOU!⫷

djsim said:
Urgghh, those fucking Unisoms... I have no idea how any pharmacist can sell the gel caps in good conscience, knowing that 95% of the time they are used for IV by heroin users.



Yeh, I agree... sounds like an urban myth. I can't imagine anyone being that stupid/desperate.
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I am sorry, I am just very fascinated with this thread. What is so great, or supposedly great, about SHOOTING UNISOMS??? WTF Insomniac?
 
ThePharmacist25 said:
DJ, why would you IV Saliva? Could you find an article about this? I believe you, but that's unique to say the least. HA
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He isn't saying it would be good, quite the opposite - he's saying its horribly dangerous. Desperate people do desperate things.

ThePharmacist25 said:
I am sorry, I am just very fascinated with this thread. What is so great, or supposedly great, about SHOOTING UNISOMS??? WTF Insomniac?
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Some people like to shoot diphenhydramine (or other antihistamines) with their opiates. Again, horribly dangerous. I say shoot your heroin and swallow the fucking antihistamine.
 
IV diphenhydramine hcl is kind of nice. It makes the experience slightly more sedating. Just a little bit of it goes a long way as well, if I swallow a 50mg diphenhydramine hcl capsule, it's like IVing maybe <10% of the same amount.

It can potentiate some opiates and specifically the rush that they give. It tends to make, specifically buprenorphine, less speedy and more relaxing (making IV bupe seem less like bupe and more like heroin).

I've only tried this a few times, it's not that sweet or anything. Actually shooting heroin would be a lot more enjoyable and most people would agree with this. It's just nice if you're looking to nod off instead of stay up at night, for example.

Most diphenhydramine hcl preparations have inactive ingredients that make it not desirable for IV though, so this is why I agree with JC and say "Shoot your heroin (or bupe or w/e) and swallow the antihistamine."
 
Eight0Eight said:
Oh please. :\

Please.

IV Bupe is NEVER like IV heroin - unless your a n00b with no habit.
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Not everyone that uses buprenorphine has a serious habit though.

It's definitely not like heroin in a lot of different ways, but diphenhydramine hcl tends to make the user nod out more.
 
kelvanE said:
man reading all these case studies makes me pissed I injected that 2mg of generic Dilaudid that one time.

all that lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, and stearic acid in my body floating or clumping together. fuck.
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Magnesium stearate isn't water soluble if I'm not mistaken. I think Microcrystalline cellulose is the major inactive that isn't desirable, which is why a micron filter is desirable for IV dilaudid.

i have also recently become more interested (again) in IVing heroin instead of rectal/nose. proceed with caution i suppose...
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I personally preferred to snort heroin while I was using, because for getting 50% BA, I would get more than 2x the length out of a dose, whereas while I would only have to use half than a snorted dose, it wouldn't last half as long as when I would take a line. For this very reason, I only used IV heroin a few times.
 
ThePharmacist25 said:
I am sorry, I am just very fascinated with this thread. What is so great, or supposedly great, about SHOOTING UNISOMS??? WTF Insomniac?
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As JC said, heroin users (predominantly) will mix their shot with Unisom b/c the diphenydramine is sedating and makes the heroin seem stronger. About 10 years ago temazepam was used, but when they banned the temazepam gelcaps people moved to using Unisom.

The inside of the gelcaps is liquid, but it is incredibly thick... just look at the inactive ingredients: Macrogol 400, glycerol, gelatin, sorbitol, brilliant blue FCF, shellac, titanium dioxide, propylene glycol, purified water.

KelvanE; if you only ever IVd pills that one time you'll be fine IMO. Some people habitually coldshake (drop the pill into the syringe and inject without filtering AT ALL) their Dilaudids and have done so for a long time.
 

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kelvanE said:
would those insolubles most likely be clinging to the sides of my veins, at a heart valve, in my lungs, or where?
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Depends on what they are. From what I understand, talc is absorbed in the lung. It would probably take quite a bit of talc absorbed into the lung to cause problems since many people inject OxyContin and but only so many of them are going to end up with talcosis of the lung. How many I really can't say, since doctor/patient confidentiality likely will skew any statistic there is on such a phenomenon.

^^ really?? call me naive but i have never heard that before. why would injecting last a shorter amount of time, because tolerance kicks up much quicker...or actually the half-life gets shorter when it's released at once?
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All in all, the high doesn't last as long. When you shoot up heroin, you are high in a matter of 10 seconds or less. From that very second, you're going to be peaking, and then about an hour or two later, you'll be done peaking. By the third, maybe fourth hour - you're done being high.

When I used to snort heroin, it would take about 15 minutes to onset, then by the first hour I would be peaking, and it the peak would last at least 3 to 4 hours. Then, the high would linger on for another 2 to 4 hours (depending on dosage, etc). So, 5 to 8 hours (insuffulated) typically beats the 2 to 4 hour duration of IV.

djsim said:
KelvanE; if you only ever IVd pills that one time you'll be fine IMO. Some people habitually coldshake (drop the pill into the syringe and inject without filtering AT ALL) their Dilaudids and have done so for a long time.
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Exactly; once should be fine whereas making a decade or two long habit would be much more iffy.
 
That talcosis article was a major wake up call for me, as I have only been injecting OxyContin for a little less than 3 weeks, one to two times a day. I didn't use micron filters like an asshole, of course.

I am done with needles. Throwing them in the fucking trash right now. If they are here I will be tempted to use them.
 
That talcosis article was a major wake up call for me, as I have only been injecting OxyContin for a little less than 3 weeks, one to two times a day. I didn't use micron filters like an asshole, of course.
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But that's just it... without these kinds of wake-up calls shooting pills is kind of like smoking cigarettes... we know it's bad, but can ignore the damage until something really bad happens. It's good to see this material have the intended effect though...

Micron filters are incredibly easy to get here in Australia ($1 each at needle exchange last time I checked). It should be the same way everywhere... In fact in one of the heavy-drug use areas here they require people buying micron filters to have sat a 1 hour 'class' showing how to use the filters and whatnot. Not sure how effective it was but it's a better idea than pretending they don't exist as the USA has been doing 8)
 
djsim said:
but it's a better idea than pretending they don't exist as the USA has been doing 8)
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This is why I'd rather live in a lot of other countries other than the US.

I thought Australia didn't allow needle exchanges though... am I wrong?
 
revamped said:
Today I was having a shot in this squat in the high rise commission flats (projects) with two vietnamese guys who were melting unisoms (OTC sleeping gel caps), mixing it with their gear and shooting it into their groins.

Shocking?
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what the fuck?
why in the hell would anyone want to do that?
 
Captain.Heroin said:
This is why I'd rather live in a lot of other countries other than the US.

I thought Australia didn't allow needle exchanges though... am I wrong?
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No, needle exchanges are pretty much everywhere... I walked in and got a box of 3mL barrels and a box of 23G tips (for steroid use) today for free. And swabs and a container. And condoms.... all free. Only micron filters cost $... $1.50 for small ones, and $3.50 for bigger ones (big ones filter more apparently?).
It's the safe injecting rooms that never caught on here, although IIRC Sydney has one which will inject pills for you (BYO pills of course).
Yep, USA is ass-backwards... you'd think after decades of losing the war on drugs they'd learn 8) If the US-health system was like the Aussie one (every citizen covered via tax) you can get your ass there's be needle exchanges! Why? Because when the govt has to foot the bill (for hepatitis and HIV etc etc caused by sharing needles) they realise it is infinitely cheaper to give the needles away in order to prevent the expensive shit happening further down the road.
 
djsim said:
No, needle exchanges are pretty much everywhere... I walked in and got a box of 3mL barrels and a box of 23G tips (for steroid use) today for free.
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Oh wow, I guess I was wrong. That's cool.

I could tell that you weren't IVing from the fact it's 23G. No one would choose a 23G for IV purposes.

Just curious, what's the smallest gauge they have there? The smallest gauge here at the SEP I go to is a 28 (they one time had 30's and 29's but not many of them, and I don't think they regularly stock them).

Because when the govt has to foot the bill (for hepatitis and HIV etc etc caused by sharing needles) they realise it is infinitely cheaper to give the needles away in order to prevent the expensive shit happening further down the road.
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With the way our current health care system is, the government profits off of companies profiting off of people dying from their products. And, the government has a dual-invested interest in keeping the population level down.

This is why US citizens will never see nationalized health care - people are making WAY too much money to stop the killing machine.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
I could tell that you weren't IVing from the fact it's 23G. No one would choose a 23G for IV purposes.
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swim used his spare rig he saves in case he ever need narcan (naloxone) which is a 23G 3ml barrel.... it actually works GREAT to hit his mainlines he said

although not a rig of choice lol, im sure after a month of that shit swim's arms would look like bullet hole from a 50 cal desert eagle lol
 
^ it'd be fine to IM it as it only takes a couple minutes for intramuscular injections to start taking effect. If you are conscious enough to shoot naloxone you certainly have enough time (a few minutes) to spare before death. In fact it'd probably be quicker in the longrun than trying to hit a vein with a 23G :)

Just curious, what's the smallest gauge they have there?
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insulin needles (0.1mL with 27 and 29G tips) are smallest. When I sdtarted IVing meth I used green tips (29G) and am quite pleased I did use 29G when I was an IV drug user b/c I have no visible track marks whatsoever. I know 31G is available but not so sure whether needle exchanges stock them.

This is why US citizens will never see nationalized health care - people are making WAY too much money to stop the killing machine.
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Countries like Switzerland, France, Australia, UK etc (the list goes on and on and on) have demonstrated that it is possible to make quite a good living with a socialist healthcare system (I hate that term). The USA still believes anything with "socialist" must be bad. 1st world countries are pretty bad insofar as the great divide between rich and poor, but the USA is by far the worst. I am a US citizen and have lived there half my life, so I honestly believe the downfall of the nation will be it's propensity to overlook anyone who is not rich.
 
djsim said:
^ In fact it'd probably be quicker in the longrun than trying to hit a vein with a 23G :)
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thats the truth, idk its always nice to know i have a rig loaded and a vial of narcan just sitting inside the dresser drawer, if you every accidentaly blasted something strong or someone else did, its the diff of life or death by having that.... and with a 23, i think your damn right about having it be quicker... my friend had to give someone an IM through their clothes and said he had to do CPR for 5 min until it kicked in, , so honestly if i ever had to give that or use it (which i doubt since i stopped using full Mu opies now that im clean on sub) its nice to know i have a lightning rod sized rig to find someones mainline in seconds:)
 
djsim said:
Countries like Switzerland, France, Australia, UK etc (the list goes on and on and on) have demonstrated that it is possible to make quite a good living with a socialist healthcare system (I hate that term). The USA still believes anything with "socialist" must be bad. 1st world countries are pretty bad insofar as the great divide between rich and poor, but the USA is by far the worst. I am a US citizen and have lived there half my life, so I honestly believe the downfall of the nation will be it's propensity to overlook anyone who is not rich.
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The thing is, is that here in the UK private health insurance is readily available to anyone that wants and can afford it.

Its not like we *have* to use the NHS if we don't want.

I hate having to constantly read how you guys get RAPED for insurance and scripts costs - it boggles my mind how anyone can think this is a good system.

Especially with drug users. Charging someone through the arse for a drug like Subutex is just wrong.
 
Eight0Eight said:
I hate having to constantly read how you guys get RAPED for insurance and scripts costs - it boggles my mind how anyone can think this is a good system.
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And yours is any better?

An ideal system would have legal drugs.

Having to pay for rx drugs (which are obviously weaker and cheaper than street drugs) is getting raped as is. Also, having a system where drugs can be patented is also the equivalent of getting raped.

This way, if all drugs were legalized, drugs (recreational and pharmaceutical) would be a lot cheaper.

Anything short of repealing the war on drugs is still "getting raped". However, a lot of people don't ever see the bigger picture and just think "my system = no health care" or "my system = me paying $X for my rx" whereas things aren't as point A to point B like that. The big picture is influenced by the global economy, and federal law.

Whatever your government does to give you prescription drugs (national health care, medicare/medicaid, PAP's) is still a drop in the bucket compared to repealing the war on drugs.
 
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