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Fjones
27-03-2009, 07:52
This is a harm reduction website. The Lounge is a degenerate forum where some of the more contemptible individuals go to act like total assholes and pass it off as "it's the lounge! It isn't serious."


WHY THE FUCK DOES A HARM REDUCTION SITE, and a great one at that, have a cesspool like the lounge?

All it does it cause problems and start fights. Whatever value it adds could still be added without all the insults and other garbage.

And now some of the most worthless former members , along with some current members (I assume), have decided to create fake accounts on redlight.com using the same username and avatar as people here on this site, solely for the purpose of mocking them. What a pathetic group of losers. Are they trying to justify their own bans even further?

WHAT THE FUCK? Should it be a surprise that people who are assholes in the lounge ACTUALLY ARE ASSHOLES? It shouldn't, but I guess to many here it is.

I understand the need and use for a forum of light discussion about random topics. BUT WHY DOES THAT FORUM have to allow people to be complete assholes and pass it off as some kind of fun? WHAT FUCKING GOOD HAS THAT DONE ANYONE OR ANYTHING?

The Lounge could be so much better if the rules on the rest of the site were applied.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 08:18
I was actually mildly amused when reading what the fake FJones says on that site. It was a reasonably good parody of me but it failed to truly capture the essense of my bitterness and anger. So, they failed, as usual.

But regardless, I still wonder why that site is even necessary.

The Lounge allows so much shit that it should NOT allow in the first place, and then the results are undesirable. Why not jsut curtail shitty behavior ion the first place before people spend years on a site and then get banned? Then they are upset because their years of time have resulted in a banned account.

coelophysis
27-03-2009, 08:19
Redlight.com is a porn site.

That_Guy
27-03-2009, 08:20
If you don't like what's on TV, change the channel

Fjones
27-03-2009, 08:21
Useful input from one of the failures himself. Nicely done sir. Thanks for contributing.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 08:25
If you don't like what's on TV, change the channel

And if you object to murder and child molestation, just look in a different direction? What the fuck?

My post was about a foum that has run amok and isn't esepcially valuable to this site, and your answer is to "read a different forum."

..........................

ok.

kzorro
27-03-2009, 08:25
yeah um i'm confused... and curious about this redlight...

Nibiru
27-03-2009, 08:26
Pff. Big deal. It's good for a laugh, and sometimes something good does indeed come out of it.

For eaxample, I've been enjoying the nudie thread.

That_Guy
27-03-2009, 08:28
And if you object to watching a depiction of murder and child molestation on TV, just turn over?

Yes

kzorro
27-03-2009, 08:29
Pff. Big deal. It's good for a laugh, and sometimes something good does indeed come out of it.

For eaxample, I've been enjoying the nudie thread.
maybe we should just have a nudie forum

Enki
27-03-2009, 08:33
Useful input from one of the failures himself. Nicely done sir. Thanks for contributing. Useless ad hominem. Disappointing in a supposed champion of productive rhetoric.

Pillthrill
27-03-2009, 08:37
GREAT all we did is to get more people to join. Fucking wonderful.
Look, now we don't even need the lounge at all.

xxkcxx
27-03-2009, 08:40
Well, really...what do you expect BL mods/admins to do about something that is going on on another site?

Enki
27-03-2009, 08:41
GREAT all we did is to get more people to join. Fucking wonderful.
Look, now we don't even need the lounge at all. Well did you think that this thread was invisible. Did I crash a private party? You want everyone to agree with you? Wtf?

Fjones
27-03-2009, 08:43
Useless ad hominem. Disappointing in a supposed champion of productive rhetoric.

It is not an Ad Hominum. He is one of the moderators of the lounge who has presided over the mess it has become. Thus, he is one of the people who failed at keeping it a civil forum.

How is that an Ad Hominum? It is not an Ad Hominum to point the failure of someone who has failed.

Yes, the redlight site might be mildly amusing in some cases (The Fake FJones is actually a tamer version of the real thing), but that isn't the point.

I was suggesting a way to IMPROVE THIS SITE. I wasn't suggesting we moderate the fake site at all, I was suggesting we reconsider how the lounge is run here, because I don't see how any good comes of it.

Enki, if you wish to encourage the meaningless kind of remark that was made by THAT GUY, then so be it. But I found his comment to be useless and pointless. Of course he isn't going to add anything to the discussion. If he acknowledged that the lounge is a collection of garbage, he would be acknowledging his own failure.

I know that if something sucks I can look away. So what? We should never fix anything that is broken; we should just look away? I do not subscribe to that philosophy, especially NOT IN A HARM REDUCTION SITE.

Pillthrill
27-03-2009, 08:43
No, I just wasn't thinking ahead. Nothing new.
But I still do believe there should be SAFE lounge threads.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 08:44
Well, really...what do you expect BL mods/admins to do about something that is going on on another site?

Nothing. I expect them to do a better job on THIS site. Maybe they are, hence the banning of the various losers who moved over to redlight.

Enki
27-03-2009, 08:49
Useful input from one of the failures himself. Nicely done sir. Thanks for contributing.


How is that an Ad Hominum? It is not an Ad Hominum to point the failure of someone who has failed.

It was a post with name calling and sarcasm and no other content that I can perceive.
If I explain my reservations about your lack of social skills there would be content, if I call you a social retard its name calling aka an ad hominem.

Nibiru
27-03-2009, 08:51
Neaner-neaner.

I like being able to read something stupid after arguing about the finer points of neuroscience or something like that without changing urls. Just be glad there is a place for the trolls to go. Consider it harm-reduction. Anyway, I'm out of this thread. Ciao.

That_Guy
27-03-2009, 09:02
It is not an Ad Hominum. He is one of the moderators of the lounge who has presided over the mess it has become. Thus, he is one of the people who failed at keeping it a civil forum.

How is that an Ad Hominum? It is not an Ad Hominum to point the failure of someone who has failed.

Yes, the redlight site might be mildly amusing in some cases (The Fake FJones is actually a tamer version of the real thing), but that isn't the point.

I was suggesting a way to IMPROVE THIS SITE. I wasn't suggesting we moderate the fake site at all, I was suggesting we reconsider how the lounge is run here, because I don't see how any good comes of it.

Enki, if you wish to encourage the meaningless kind of remark that was made by THAT GUY, then so be it. But I found his comment to be useless and pointless. Of course he isn't going to add anything to the discussion. If he acknowledged that the lounge is a collection of garbage, he would be acknowledging his own failure.

I know that if something sucks I can look away. So what? We should never fix anything that is broken; we should just look away? I do not subscribe to that philosophy, especially NOT IN A HARM REDUCTION SITE.

You want to know where I stand?

I'm here in the middle of a bunch of pissed off staff that are trying to get things straightened out with the forum and you starting this thread to cry about how it is useless and pointless.

It is an "off-topic" forum for a reason. That is why it exists. If it did not exist, than threads in every other forum on this site would be taken off topic by side conversations. If you want something to change, change it yourself. Because from where I sit, there are hundreds of different people showing up there week after week, going to see their friends and crack jokes that new people to the club might not understand.

Is some of it crass? Yes. Does some of it go too far? Yes. However, there are currently four men assigned to filtering that content. Have you seen how many posts the lounge gets in a day? 1000's. Were you there to help direct the forum when it was growing up? Have you tried to add worthwhile content to the forum without turning it into an argument when someone disagrees with you? Have you even given money to help keep the site alive?

From my perspective, you are just an armchair quarterback sitting in your home pointing out all of the things that have gone wrong that need to be fixed. You have no intention of trying to do anything to fix them yourself. You are being selfish.

I took that position this past October. Just like with our new president in the US, it takes time for things to change and get better. Until you start doing something beyond complaining about it, then you have no room to complain about it.

If you don't like what's on, then change the channel.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 09:08
It was a post with name calling and sarcasm and no other content that I can perceive.
If I explain my reservations about your lack of social skills there would be content, if I call you a social retard its name calling aka an ad hominem.

Yes. And In this thread I have discussed the failures of the lounge moderators.

So what is the problem? Are you saying I was not thorough or descriptive enough? Are you saying it is never acceptable to say that someone failed? After everythign that is ALLOWED in the lounge, you are really getting on my case for saying someone failed? What a joke.

I'll try that at work sometime.

Boss -- "FJones, you failed in your duties"

Me -- "Oh, an Ad Hominum attack eh?"

Pillthrill
27-03-2009, 09:10
Fjones, there is no winning. They will keep their stupid lounge. Hopefully some
off topic" non-trolling, mehm threads such as pic threads will stay free of that and other shit.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 09:15
You want to know where I stand?

I'm here in the middle of a bunch of pissed off staff that are trying to get things straightened out with the forum and you starting this thread to cry about how it is useless and pointless.

It is an "off-topic" forum for a reason. That is why it exists. If it did not exist, than threads in every other forum on this site would be taken off topic by side conversations. If you want something to change, change it yourself. Because from where I sit, there are hundreds of different people showing up there week after week, going to see their friends and crack jokes that new people to the club might not understand.

Is some of it crass? Yes. Does some of it go too far? Yes. However, there are currently four men assigned to filtering that content. Have you seen how many posts the lounge gets in a day? 1000's. Were you there to help direct the forum when it was growing up? Have you tried to add worthwhile content to the forum without turning it into an argument when someone disagrees with you? Have you even given money to help keep the site alive?

From my perspective, you are just an armchair quarterback sitting in your home pointing out all of the things that have gone wrong that need to be fixed. You have no intention of trying to do anything to fix them yourself. You are being selfish.

I took that position this past October. Just like with our new president in the US, it takes time for things to change and get better. Until you start doing something beyond complaining about it, then you have no room to complain about it.

If you don't like what's on, then change the channel.


Fair enough. I appreciate that you elaborated on your thoughts. And I think you make some good points.

Why not just make these good points in the first place? It sounds as though some of the staff and admins DO want to improve the lounge and clean up some of the garbage.

You could have responded initially by saying, "FJones, the mods and staff are examining and discussing this very issue as we speak."

Instead you made a snide one liner, which I got annoyed with because I was trying to have a serious discussion.


I know I lack tact and I can be abrasive. I am working on that aspect my my personality but I cannot fix it overnight any more than anyone else can magically fix their flaws overnight.

I don't understand the "two wrongs make a right" mentality though -- it seems that when I display a lack of tact and write an abrasive post, people sometimes respond by adding gasoline to the fire. What is the point of that?



I can see that moderating the lounge is a thankless task that muct be a nightmare. I don't envy you or the other three. I apologize for being dismissive of your work. That was wrong of me.

Enki
27-03-2009, 09:15
Yes. And In this thread I have discussed the failures of the lounge moderators.

So what is the problem? Are you saying I was not thorough or descriptive enough? Are you saying it is never acceptable to say that someone failed? After everythign that is ALLOWED in the lounge, you are really getting on my case for saying someone failed? What a joke.

I'll try that at work sometime.

Boss -- "FJones, you failed in your duties"

Me -- "Oh, an Ad Hominum attack eh?"
My question is what did your post add to the discussion? Post #5? If it was a post about you my expectation is that you would cry foul. I'm not in my usual mode of dialogue I'm exposing a nitpicker to nitpicks and he responds with nitpicks. If the choice was between this whole site becoming the lounge or this whole site becoming Fjones style rhetoric I'd most certainly go with the lounge.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 09:17
Fjones, there is no winning. They will keep their stupid lounge. Hopefully some
off topic" non-trolling, mehm threads such as pic threads will stay free of that and other shit.

I think the lounge has SOME value, and can have even more. Some of the threads are fun and funny.

My point (which I think is being lost) is, we can have fun and funny threads without having people treat people like assholes.

"OFF-TOPIC" does NOT mean "Be an asshole and be nasty to each other."

Fjones
27-03-2009, 09:21
My question is what did your post add to the discussion? Post #5? If it was a post about you my expectation is that you would cry foul. I'm not in my usual mode of dialogue I'm exposing a nitpicker to nitpicks and he responds with nitpicks. If the choice was between this whole site becoming the lounge or this whole site becoming Fjones style rhetoric I'd most certainly go with the lounge.

What was the point my post number 5? None. There was no point to post number 4 or number 5. They were both pointless. The difference is, I know that I engage in petty disagreements sometimes. I have a bad habit of reacting to the things people say when they are best left ignored.

The difference is, I don't pretend otherwise. Other people act the same way and blame the entire argument on me. Well, it takes two. I would say that post 4 instigated post 5. Does that justify my post 5? No. But I am also not a moderator nor will I ever be. If I were, I would not expect people to be okay with my making posts like number 4.

Max Power
27-03-2009, 09:22
Seriously, it's the internet. Fucking relax. Go make some friends IRL. Get a hobby.


And if you object to murder and child molestation, just look in a different direction? What the fuck?

Sometimes, I can't believe you're serious. At least I knew CG was trolling. You actually believe the arguments you try and start.

Turning a blind eye to the banter that occurs on an online message board has absolutely no correlation between child molestation and murder.

holy fuck.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 09:27
My question is what did your post add to the discussion? Post #5? If it was a post about you my expectation is that you would cry foul. I'm not in my usual mode of dialogue I'm exposing a nitpicker to nitpicks and he responds with nitpicks. If the choice was between this whole site becoming the lounge or this whole site becoming Fjones style rhetoric I'd most certainly go with the lounge.

Well, people don't like logic. It scares them. They do not like it when their emotional, factless, and irrational argument can be refuted by cold hard logic.

It is because people shun and mock the use of logic that politicians are so easily able to fool the majority of the public. People cannot see through their bullshit and lies because they don't understand the basics of logic.

People don't like logic because they don't like being outsmarted. They don't like being painted into a corner when their flimsy argument unravels. But instead of learning how to make better arguments, they mock the use of logic and ridicule the user.

How does that benefit anyone?

Fjones
27-03-2009, 09:28
Seriously, it's the internet. Fucking relax. Go make some friends IRL. Get a hobby.



Sometimes, I can't believe you're serious. At least I knew CG was trolling. You actually believe the arguments you try and start.

Turning a blind eye to the banter that occurs on an online message board has absolutely no correlation between child molestation and murder.

holy fuck.

You obviously do not know what the word correlation means.

It was an ANALOGY. I never said there was a correlation.

People are not very good at understanding analogies either, unfortunately. Do they teach anything in schools these days?

comador
27-03-2009, 09:30
It may of been an alnalogy, but it was a shit one. You cant compare some trolling to child molestation and murder. why so serious?!

Fjones
27-03-2009, 09:31
Seriously, it's the internet. Fucking relax. Go make some friends IRL. Get a hobby.



Sometimes, I can't believe you're serious. At least I knew CG was trolling. You actually believe the arguments you try and start.

Turning a blind eye to the banter that occurs on an online message board has absolutely no correlation between child molestation and murder.

holy fuck.

Also, you don't know me so don't act like you do. I have more friends "IRL" than most, and far more hobbies than most. I could easily crush you at many of the numerous hobbies I enjoy.

Just because I debate on a forum does not mean I don't have friends or hobbies. That you would say that just how lame your level of thinking is. I might take issue with a lot of things that people say here, but I can respond a bit more intelligently than "Go find some friends or hobbies," because I am smart enough not to presume a person lacks either of those.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 09:35
It may of been an alnalogy, but it was a shit one. You cant compare some trolling to child molestation and murder. why so serious?!

You also do not seem to understand analogies.

Why am I bothering to debate analogies with people here? I TEACH S.A.T. classes, which used to have analogies on them. I know how analogies work. The general public, sadly, has little understanding of them, which is why I was able to make good money teaching them.

I never equated the doings in the lounge with murder and child molestation. I used an extreme example to POINT OUT THAT we shouldn't simply ignore things that are broken and causing problems.

Enki
27-03-2009, 09:47
I've been over reacting in this thread and I've gotten sort of personal which is not a good way to react to member feedback. Thank you for your feedback. Not as an excuse but as an explanation the first post seemed very hostile and uncivil to me. I should have left the computer for a while before posting.

Honestly, not argument for arguments sake, I sense an authentic message in post #4. Similar messages are in slogans like "Bothered by abortion, then don't have one." "Opposed to pornography, don't buy any." Its another way of saying that the lounge isn't compulsory and if you don't get it or you don't like it, Oh well.

Please keep in mind that no part of Bluelight is going to please everybody.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 09:53
I've been over reacting in this thread and I've gotten sort of personal which is not a good way to react to member feedback. Thank you for your feedback. Not as an excuse but as an explanation the first post seemed very hostile and uncivil to me. I should have left the computer for a while before posting.

Honestly, not argument for arguments sake, I sense an authentic message in post #4. Similar messages are in slogans like "Bothered by abortion, then don't have one." "Opposed to pornography, don't buy any." Its another way of saying that the lounge isn't compulsory and if you don't get it or you don't like it, Oh well.

Please keep in mind that no part of Bluelight is going to please everybody.



You make a fair point. My initial post was one that I wrote out of my annoyance for the lounge when I was esepcially annoyed about the lounge for a specific reason or two. I probably should have waited to write the post until later.

I never set out to make personal attacks or start fights. I just seem to fall into them for various reasons. I am not good at de-escalating.

It sounds like the staff IS working on improving the lounge and tightening up moderation, and that pleases me. I appreciate whatever efforts have been taken. Overall I think this is a great site and I want to see it stay that way.

Perhaps we should close this thread.

That_Guy
27-03-2009, 09:56
You also do not seem to understand analogies.

Why am I bothering to debate analogies with people here? I TEACH S.A.T. classes, which used to have analogies on them. I know how analogies work. The general public, sadly, has little understanding of them, which is why I was able to make good money teaching them.

I never equated the doings in the lounge with murder and child molestation. I used an extreme example to POINT OUT THAT we shouldn't simply ignore things that are broken and causing problems.

No, your analogy had no relationship to the content of this overall discussion.

Looking away from actual crimes being committed has no relationship to looking away from words on a screen. They are not analogous. For them to be analogous, the principle action and result of one would need to be comparable to the principle action and result of the other. If you look away from a forum on the internet, then no person has been physically harmed. If a person looks away from the commission of a murder, then someone has been physically harmed. You are comparing Playboy and snuff films.

Your logic is flawed, thereby nullifying your argument. You may teach SAT prep, but you already have the answers in front of you. The SAT does not require creative thinking. Everything is dry and straightforward.

Also, you never help your case by responding
I have more friends "IRL" than most, and far more hobbies than most. I could easily crush you at many of the numerous hobbies I enjoy. This does not lend others to sympathize with your position or believe your claims. Use this as a comparison:

A:"You are stupid."
B:"No I'm not. I'm smarter than you."

How will person A respond? Will person A typically believe person B on the face of their contention that they are in fact more intelligent, or does it beg further argument? Had you responded, for example, "I am an accomplished violinist," then no one would question any further. However, with a response claiming that you will "crush" others at various nameless hobbies, it sounds as though you are boasting as a defense mechanism. Such a defense mechanism reveals further weakness that can and will be exploited in the lounge in particular, but elsewhere as well.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 10:11
No, your analogy had no relationship to the content of this overall discussion.

Looking away from actual crimes being committed has no relationship to looking away from words on a screen. They are not analogous. For them to be analogous, the principle action and result of one would need to be comparable to the principle action and result of the other. If you look away from a forum on the internet, then no person has been physically harmed. If a person looks away from the commission of a murder, then someone has been physically harmed. You are comparing Playboy and snuff films.

Your logic is flawed, thereby nullifying your argument. You may teach SAT prep, but you already have the answers in front of you. The SAT does not require creative thinking. Everything is dry and straightforward.

Also, you never help your case by responding This does not lend others to sympathize with your position or believe your claims. Use this as a comparison:

A:"You are stupid."
B:"No I'm not. I'm smarter than you."

How will person A respond? Will person A typically believe person B on the face of their contention that they are in fact more intelligent, or does it beg further argument? Had you responded, for example, "I am an accomplished violinist," then no one would question any further. However, with a response claiming that you will "crush" others at various nameless hobbies, it sounds as though you are boasting as a defense mechanism. Such a defense mechanism reveals further weakness that can and will be exploited in the lounge in particular, but elsewhere as well.


I don't know what to tell you. If I wanted to reveal my real name, I could post links to a site that shows that I am a two time national champion at something that is played by people all over the world. But I don't see why I need to reveal personal information about myself.

If some person wants to be a jerk and say that I have no hobbies and no friends, I invite him to come visit me and A) meet my friends or B) come challenge me in any of 15 or 20 different hobbies, most of which I would likely crush him in.

I don't really know what else to say.

By the way, the reason I was chosen to teach SAT classes is that I was able to ace the questions WITHOUT the answers in front me. You are a smart guy so I assume you know that they don't just hire some fool who can read answers from a book right? Or am I giving you too much credit? I guess I am, because you implied that to be the case.

My analogy was valid. I'll slow it down for you since you seem to be struggling.

I said, originally (paraphrasing here), "The lounge has a lot of problems. It has run amok and people are treating each other like shit and it is causing problems."

You said, "If you don't like it, turn the channel."

I then made my supposedly flawed analogy.

Here is the deal. When you said, "If you don't like it, turn the channel," you were saying "If you have a problem with something, ignore it instead of trying to fix it."

My ANALOGY then pointed out the flaw in your response, that is, we cannot simply ignore things that are broken, because SOME things (like Murder, child molestation) are too serious to ignore, so we must fix the problem.

In other words, you cannot just say, as a general philosophy, "If you have a problem with something, ignore it." You would only say that about something unimportant.

So by saying that about my thread, all you were REALLY SAYING IS, "Shut up, your issue isn't important."

If that is how you feel, just say that, don't spout a hackneyed cliché.

So really, you just chose poor words. Instead of saying, "It you don't like it, change the channel," you could have said, "Yeah the lounge has problems but they aren't important enough to bother with so who cares?"

But if that is the case, why is there so much talk about it? Why are so many warnings and temp bans issued?


Anything WORTH FIXING, should be fixed, and anything NOT worth fixing, should be DISCARDED.

THAT is why I objected to your statement and why I made the analogy I did.

Rogue Robot
27-03-2009, 10:25
If you have an issue with the lounge, there are more ways to go about making changes in the lounge rather than complaining in SUPPORT.

If you don't like it, fine. Either don't post or make worthwhile posts in there in hopes that people will follow suit. I know I tease alasdairm (<3) when I repeat this, but he is absolutely right in saying 'be the change...'. I have taken Ali's words and thought about them in nearly every forum in which I post, and maybe you should do the same.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 10:30
I was actually unsure about which forum to post in so I put it in homeless in the hopes that it would be moved to the best location.

I cannot "be the change" in the lounge. They don't like me in the lounge. my best bet is to avoid the lounge, which I do, except for the picture threads and some polls.

Fjones
27-03-2009, 10:31
Also, for what it's worth, my threads and posts do seem to generate a lot of discussion. I'd rather be controversial than boring. If so many people don't like me why do they waste their energy responding to my posts?

That_Guy
27-03-2009, 10:44
Here is the deal. When you said, "If you don't like it, turn the channel," you were saying "If you have a problem with something, ignore it instead of trying to fix it."

My ANALOGY then pointed out the flaw in your response, that is, we cannot simply ignore things that are broken, because SOME things (like Murder, child molestation) are too serious to ignore, so we must fix the problem.

No, a problem is the poor state of public education. A problem is your car making a terrible noise. Individual life-changing (or ending) events are not problems. They are tragedies. One person using a racial slur to name-call someone else is a problem. It is not a life-ending tragedy.

Why are you so passive-aggressive in your answers? It is unbecoming of someone that holds themselves above us ignorant rabble to try to claim fair statements when they come in the form of sarcastic, dismissive quips about your perception of the other's intelligence. (This is an obvious demonstration of passive aggression)

If you notice, I have asked questions about your participation in the funding of this site and asked you to change the things that you see as broken. I did not name call and I did not try to paint myself as anything. I did not tell anything, I showed it. Please, before pointing out the speck in my eye, remove the plank from yours.

Infinite Jest
27-03-2009, 10:49
And now some of the most worthless former members , along with some current members (I assume), have decided to create fake accounts on redlight.com using the same username and avatar as people here on this site, solely for the purpose of mocking them. What a pathetic group of losers. Are they trying to justify their own bans even further?


I agree with some of what you say in your post, but just quickly: BL is not responsible for redlight, doesn't endorse it, doesn't have, or want to have, anything to do with it. I would strongly recommend ignoring it completely :).

[I'm sure someone else said this already, I've only read first post]

Fjones
27-03-2009, 11:35
No, a problem is the poor state of public education. A problem is your car making a terrible noise. Individual life-changing (or ending) events are not problems. They are tragedies. One person using a racial slur to name-call someone else is a problem. It is not a life-ending tragedy.

Why are you so passive-aggressive in your answers? It is unbecoming of someone that holds themselves above us ignorant rabble to try to claim fair statements when they come in the form of sarcastic, dismissive quips about your perception of the other's intelligence. (This is an obvious demonstration of passive aggression)

If you notice, I have asked questions about your participation in the funding of this site and asked you to change the things that you see as broken. I did not name call and I did not try to paint myself as anything. I did not tell anything, I showed it. Please, before pointing out the speck in my eye, remove the plank from yours.



I am not sure why I am so passive aggressive. It isn't intentional. I actually think of myself as overtly aggressive, not passive-aggressive. Either way, I would like to change the way I interact with people here. I think I have some good ideas, and, for certain topics, I have a lot of information to share.

Unfortunately, much of that is lost in the melee that often ensues as a result of my communication failures with people.

So to answer your questions honestly -- I don't know. I guess my biggest problems are A) I respond too quickly without thinking things through, and B) I don't review my posts to see how the overall tone is, and C) I am absolutely terrible at seeing things from other people's point of view, and I have a hard time figuring out how others will perceive what I write.

I find this especially difficult on the internet, where tone and context are often lost for various reasons.


Regarding contributing financially, I did not mean to dodge the issue, I just don't have much extra money right now. I hope that changes soon and I expect it to. I would like to donate. I have donated to sites in the past when I find them valuable, as I do this one.

That said, if I had donated, would that somehow justify my abrasive and confrontational attitude? I don't think it would, which is another reason I ignored the question.

regarding this --

"It is unbecoming of someone that holds themselves above us ignorant rabble to try to claim fair statements when they come in the form of sarcastic, dismissive quips about your perception of the other's intelligence. (This is an obvious demonstration of passive aggression)"


I will try to address that.

Look, the simple fact is, I am smarter than most people. I am not saying that to boast or aggrandize myself in any way or to put anyone else down. I state it as a simple fact.

Now, that does NOT mean that what I say is right and what others say is wrong.

But SOMETIMES a situation comes up where the other person IS wrong, but simply doesn't seem to be able to understand why. When that happens, there are only so many ways I can explain it before i get frustrated. And if the person then says I am stupid, it becomes all the more frustrating -- because now, not only is the person not grasping the concept, but he is implying that it is MY lack of intelligence that is causing the problem.

Does this sound arrogant? I hope not because I am just trying to explain myself and illustrate a point.

Suppose I say that "If A then B." And someone argues with me, and attempts to disprove what I am saying by showing that B does not cause A.

What that person is doing does not make sense and is just plain WRONG. There is no gray area. When we say "A causes B," we are not saying anything about what B causes or doesn't cause.

But, people will make that error, and similar errors, and act as though they have said something clever or logical, when all they have said is nonsense.

I can explain the errors several different ways, but then people say I am bullying or being pedantic. So what am I supposed to do in that situation?

There are DOZENS of rules of logic, and when they are violated, the argument is invalid! Yet most people don't know these rules of logic or the associated logical fallacies, and they don't care to learn them. However, if they choose to remain ignorant, they shouldn’t be so argumentative about it.

What I am getting at is, anyone who doesn't understand the rules of logic falls into two categories –

A) not smart enough to understand them or
B) is smart enough but has chosen not to

I have little patience for people from group A who are UNAWARE of their deficiency and choose to argue illogically.
And I have little tolerance for people from group B either, because they are passing up a chance to learn how to form logical, valid, cogent arguments, but then they debate in ways that are just illogical and frustrating.
I guess I don’t know how to point out when someone has violated a rule of logic without sounding like an ass.
When I teach SAT classes, or when I tutor logic, the students know they have deficiencies or that they have something to learn, so they don’t challenge me on it. Here, people don’t always know what constitutes sound logic but they challenge me on it anyway.

It gets frustrating.

A perfect example is what MaxPowers said. “Get some friends ILR or get some hobbies.” There are just so many things wrong with that. I would never say that to anyone, because A) It is an absurd assumption, B) the other person cannot disprove it nor can anyone prove it and C) It has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

When someone says something like that, he is basically saying, “I have no rebuttal to what you said, either because I am too lazy to come up with one, not smart enough to come up with one, or I just don’t care.”

Well, why not just SAY one of those instead of making an assumption that is phrased as an insult?

MazDan
27-03-2009, 13:10
Fjones.

Lets say for example that there are a lot of people who agree with you and that the lounge needs something drastic to happen to it to make it some sort of habitable place for all bluelighters and not just those it currently attracts.

How do you suggest that things should be done in order to achieve the desired result?

Imagine for a moment that you are suddenly turned into the lounge super mod and its your job to turn it into something worthwhile.

What are you going to do?

How are you going to achieve it?

sunflash876
27-03-2009, 13:35
People are just being assholes because they can be, I've noticed this in alot of people I know IRL. It's much funner being an asshole than a nice guy. It's also impossible to detect things such as "sarcasm" or an "I was just joking" attitude via text, such as in a forum (Unless you put :P or something similar to that at the end of the phrase).

tobala
27-03-2009, 15:58
...there is no winning. They will keep their stupid lounge...And you will continue to love going there.






Proposal: creation of a new "safe" Lounge subforum called The Comfy Chair and moderated by guess who. ;)

Max Power
27-03-2009, 16:50
I have more friends "IRL" than most, and far more hobbies than most. I could easily crush you at many of the numerous hobbies I enjoy.


Why am I bothering to debate analogies with people here? I TEACH S.A.T. classes, which used to have analogies on them. I know how analogies work. The general public, sadly, has little understanding of them, which is why I was able to make good money teaching them.


Look, the simple fact is, I am smarter than most people.

Does anyone else sense a pattern here? 8)


A perfect example is what MaxPowers said. “Get some friends ILR or get some hobbies.” There are just so many things wrong with that. I would never say that to anyone, because A) It is an absurd assumption, B) the other person cannot disprove it nor can anyone prove it and C) It has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

When someone says something like that, he is basically saying, “I have no rebuttal to what you said, either because I am too lazy to come up with one, not smart enough to come up with one, or I just don’t care.”

Well, why not just SAY one of those instead of making an assumption that is phrased as an insult?

I said what I meant and I meant what I said.

It seems you are a high strung individual who enjoys arguing.

The more time you spend away from bluelight, the smaller all these "lounge" problems become.

Arnold
27-03-2009, 17:25
Look, the simple fact is, I am smarter than most people.
Yet not smart enough to not click on the lounge and stop reading it.
Yet not smart enough to understand simple logic.


It seems you are a high strung individual who enjoys arguing.
x2 .
I could add to the reason as to why he is like that then again Fjones will see it as a personal attack or something else and go off rambling for 50 pages again.

Rogue Robot
27-03-2009, 17:26
moved this

HOMELESS -> SUPPORT

behave, kids. ;)

Snowbear
27-03-2009, 17:41
And if you object to murder and child molestation, just look in a different direction?

My post was about a foum that has run amok and isn't esepcially valuable to this site, and your answer is to "read a different forum." ok.
It works 100% of the time for me.

And for the Extra - Sensitive Viewer, you can also place the thoughtless buffoons and Lounge reprobates on "Ignore".

^^All that info and I don't even work at "Support" forum.

Will

Slay
27-03-2009, 17:56
well honestly i really didnt read any of these posts but my opinion is that we are all (approx 100.000 registered users on this site) are all drug addicts and we need a place to bullshit, have fun, flame, bitch, post nonsense stuff, nudies, memes etc imo lounge is necessary