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marley
24-02-2009, 11:38
Has anyone tried Varenicline (aka Champix - anti smoking medication)...?

Its time to give up smoking, but so far nicotine replacement therapy hasn't really cut it.

leftwing
24-02-2009, 12:26
my father was using champix as an aid to help him quite smoking not long ago, though with no success so far. knowing my father as well as i do he really doesnt have the desire to quit yet.

he's asleep at the moment so i can't ask him too much;) but from what i do know is he felt sick when trying to smoke after he had dosed the champix. and from what he told me his cravings did dwindle. i'll ask him tomorrow what his thoughts on it was.

a mate of mine is also trying to quit smoking using nicabate patches, i cant remember what strength though. he had already cut down to b&h fines, which are a very light cigarette, and noticed he was getting sick from the patches.

sorry i can't add a little more at the moment.

good luck with the quitting!

permastoned
24-02-2009, 12:43
I would strongly suggest you avoid it. Firstly, it's made by Pfizer, IMO the most evil drug company of them all.

Secondly, from wiki:


Controversy
On Thursday, May 22, 2008, The New York Times reported that the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (F.A.A.) had announced the day before a ban on the use of Chantix (varenicline tartrate) for both pilots and air traffic controllers, due to concerns with possible adverse neuropsychiatric effects which could be detrimental to public safety.[10]
On Sunday, May 25, 2008, The Los Angeles Times reported that over 2 dozen traffic accidents had been linked to Chantix and reported to the FDA. Warnings had previously been issued by Pfizer regarding the risks of Chantix while driving. However, these warnings have largely been ignored by doctors and patients.[11]
On Tuesday, June 17, 2008, The Washington Times reported on its Front Page that the United States Department of Veterans Affairs was testing Chantix on war veterans with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder without properly warning them of the side effects, and that in one case a veteran was almost killed when he had a psychotic episode and threatened police officers.[12]
On October 23, 2008, the Institute for Safe Medication Practices issued an analysis of prescription drug-related injuries reported to the FDA during the first quarter of 2008. According to the report, varenicline had more reported incidents than any other drug, with 1001 new cases of adverse effects and 50 more deaths reported (Heparin, the drug with the second highest number of injury reports, had 779 new cases, most of which were connected to a contaminate inadvertently introduced into the drug in early 2008). In comparison, the ISMP reported that in the first quarter of 2008 there were 17 serious injury reports for nicotine-replacement products, and 44 reports for bupropion (sold as Zyban as a smoking cessation medication). Varenicline did not rank in the ten drugs with the most related deaths, but did rank first in reports of suicide or self-injury, with 228 reports citing these effects. The ISMP noted that the high number of varenicline-related injury reports may be related to the publicity surrounding the medication's potential side effects. [13]
On February 4, 2009, Health Canada announced that it had received more than 800 complaints from Canadian users, many of them reporting mood swings, depression or suicidal thoughts.[14]

leftwing
24-02-2009, 12:54
^why do you find pfizer an evil drug company?

i've used pfizer drugs before (lyrica, xanax and codeine forte, i think it was pfizer codeine) and had no ill effects. i'm actually looking into feldene(anti-inflammatory) and dantrium(muscle relaxant) to help with my back condition.

Mr Blonde
24-02-2009, 18:21
^ Yeah I don't normally buy into the 'evil pharmaceutical companies' thing but Pfizer has done some not-so-great things; e.g. their experimenting with trovafloxacin in Nigeria and their off-label promoting practices.

A look at the wiki page seems to show though that a few of the other things they are tied up in, in regards to legal action, seems to come from their having acquired other companies that caused the trouble.

Back on topic: I know quite a few people who have tried this. Of the four I can think of right now, two have quit and two had no luck.

marley
25-02-2009, 08:22
Thanks leftwing, a few random pub conversations led me to believe that Varenicline was some new wonder drug that stopped smoking in its tracks....guess that was a fairly unrealistic expectation.

I think the best option for me is cold turkey...I've made it to the 2 week mark a few times in the past going cold turkey, but then I fall into the false (ah I guess I'm not addicted after all) sense of security and have another smoke.

I guess my biggest hinderence at the moment is my girlfriend and mates, the majority of whom smoke. Hopefully I can set an example and convince them quitting is possible.

One day down (...and given the approximate male life expectancy in Australia of 75 years), 18250 days to go *YIKES*

hoptis
26-02-2009, 01:35
I did a course of Champix a few months ago. I'll say this; the shit is effective. It's fascinating on an academic level when you start on the course and for the first week while you're still meant to be smoking; every time you have a cigarette you "feel" something is missing but you can't quite put your finger on it. You get all the physical effects of smoking but mentally your nicotine receptors just aren't being hit, and you're not getting the dopamine release that every cigarette delivers.

You also might have heard the drug being mentioned as the cause of a number of suicides in the US and you don't have to Google far to read about some of the side effects; especially depression or increased aggression. If you recreationally or habitually use any dopaminergic drugs I would suggest staying away from Varenicline.

I found it completely removed the cravings to smoke, but we all know that cigarette smoking is much more than a physical addiction. Also there are many reports that once you finish the course, your nicotine urges can still come back, months later. For Australians, you can get the course subsidised on the PBS, which makes the entire course (2 x 12 weeks if I remember) about the cost of two weeks worth of nicotine patches.

Good luck :)

rm2x
26-02-2009, 02:31
I seriously considered trying Champix. A friend of mine has been off smoking for a while now from using it. She does get a bit queasy, but apart from that, has had great success.

However, after reading up about the serious side effects, it has actually put me off. I'm going to try one of those E-Cigarettes from china, see how that goes.


Good luck Marley!

marley
26-02-2009, 06:59
Thanks for the encouragement guys

fortehlulz
26-02-2009, 10:18
A good mate of mine has been on it, and it has done the job - he's been a smoker since he was about 12 (country boy) and this has knocked it for six.

OneBigWorld
05-03-2009, 12:40
. If you recreationally or habitually use any dopaminergic drugs I would suggest staying away from Varenicline.


Sorry to be so uninformed but would E fall under dopaminergic drugs? Meth?

I had the same experience as yourself with champix. It is truly amazing how it works.

Mr Blonde
05-03-2009, 14:10
^ Meth yes, MDMA not so much. Still be careful though.

bit_pattern
09-08-2009, 13:08
I did a course of Champix a few months ago. I'll say this; the shit is effective. It's fascinating on an academic level when you start on the course and for the first week while you're still meant to be smoking; every time you have a cigarette you "feel" something is missing but you can't quite put your finger on it. You get all the physical effects of smoking but mentally your nicotine receptors just aren't being hit, and you're not getting the dopamine release that every cigarette delivers.

You also might have heard the drug being mentioned as the cause of a number of suicides in the US and you don't have to Google far to read about some of the side effects; especially depression or increased aggression. If you recreationally or habitually use any dopaminergic drugs I would suggest staying away from Varenicline.

I found it completely removed the cravings to smoke, but we all know that cigarette smoking is much more than a physical addiction. Also there are many reports that once you finish the course, your nicotine urges can still come back, months later. For Australians, you can get the course subsidised on the PBS, which makes the entire course (2 x 12 weeks if I remember) about the cost of two weeks worth of nicotine patches.

Good luck :)

How did you find the side effects? Ie. depression etc? And are you still not smoking? did you notice your cravings return after finishing your course 9and did you complete the second twelve week course, or just the first)?

I really need to quit, but am susceptible to depression type symptoms (never diagnosed and never been on meds - except for the time I stupidly ate a packet of Arapax when I was sixteen)

bit_pattern
09-08-2009, 14:28
Weed tends to make me depressed, has anyone any first/second hand experience with weed and champix in relation to depression?

nabollocks
10-08-2009, 00:23
Give bupropion if you dont want to use Champix.

Smoking cessation

Bupropion reduces the severity of nicotine cravings and withdrawal symptoms. After a seven-week treatment, 27% of subjects who received bupropion reported that an urge to smoke was a problem, versus 56% of those who received placebo. In the same study, 21% of the bupropion group reported mood swings, versus 32% of the placebo group.[23] The bupropion treatment course lasts for seven to twelve weeks, with the patient halting the use of tobacco about ten days into the course. The efficacy of bupropion is similar to that of nicotine replacement therapy. Bupropion approximately doubles the chance of quitting smoking successfully after three months. One year after the treatment, the odds of sustaining smoking cessation are still 1.5 times higher in the bupropion group than in the placebo group.[24] The combination of bupropion and nicotine appears not to further increase the cessation rate. In a direct comparison, varenicline (Chantix) showed superior efficacy: after one year, the rate of continuous abstinence was 10% for placebo, 15% for bupropion, and 23% for varenicline.[25] Bupropion slows the weight gain that often occurs in the first weeks after quitting smoking (after seven weeks, the placebo group had an average 2.7 kg increase in weight, versus 1.5 kg for the bupropion group). With time, however, this effect becomes negligible (after 26 weeks, both groups recorded an average 4.8 kg weight gain).[23] from wiki.

This is also on the PBS specifically for smoking cessation.

With an added side effect:

Depression

Placebo-controlled double-blind clinical studies have confirmed the efficacy of bupropion for clinical depression.[9] Comparative clinical studies demonstrated the equivalency of bupropion and sertraline (Zoloft), fluoxetine (Prozac), paroxetine (Paxil)[10] and escitalopram (Lexapro)[11] as antidepressants. A significantly higher remission rate with bupropion treatment than for venlafaxine (Effexor) was observed in a recent study.[12] Unlike all other antidepressants, except mirtazapine (Remeron), maprotiline (Ludiomil) and tianeptine (Stablon), bupropion does not cause sexual dysfunction and the occurrence of sexual side effects is not different from placebo.[13][14] Bupropion treatment is not associated with weight gain; on the contrary, at the end of every study comparing bupropion with placebo or other antidepressants the bupropion group had a lower average weight.[15] Bupropion is more effective than SSRIs at improving symptoms of hypersomnia and fatigue in depressed patients.[16] In a comparative meta-analysis, there appeared to be a modest advantage for the SSRIs compared to bupropion in the treatment of depression with high anxiety, while these medications were equivalent for the depression with moderate or low anxiety.[17]

According to several surveys, the augmentation of a prescribed SSRI with bupropion is the preferred strategy among clinicians when the patient does not respond to the SSRI.[18] For example, the combination of bupropion and citalopram (Celexa) was observed to be more effective than switching to another antidepressant. The addition of bupropion to an SSRI (primarily fluoxetine or sertraline) resulted in a significant improvement in 70–80% of patients who had an incomplete response to the first-line antidepressant.[19][20] Bupropion improved ratings of "energy", which had decreased under the influence of the SSRI; also noted were improvements of mood and motivation, and some improvement of cognitive and sexual functions. Sleep quality and anxiety ratings in most cases were unchanged.[20] In the STAR*D study, the patients who did not respond to citalopram (Celexa) were randomly assigned to augmentation by bupropion or buspirone (Buspar). Approximately 30% of subjects in both groups achieved a remission. However, bupropion augmentation gave better results based on the patients' self-ratings and was much better tolerated. The authors observed that "these findings reveal a consistently more favorable outcome with sustained-release bupropion than with buspirone augmentation of citalopram."[21] The same study indicated a possibility of higher remission rate when the non-responders to citalopram received bupropion augmentation rather than were switched to bupropion (30% vs. 20%).[22] also from wiki.

Anecdotal reports suggest that it is also great for sexual dysfunction.

leigh12
10-08-2009, 02:34
my mum was on champix for 2 months or so
30 pack a day for 30 yrs , since 6 months go she has had maybe 5 ciggis since?

hoptis
10-08-2009, 03:37
Sorry to be so uninformed but would E fall under dopaminergic drugs? Meth?

Yes


How did you find the side effects? Ie. depression etc? And are you still not smoking? did you notice your cravings return after finishing your course 9and did you complete the second twelve week course, or just the first)?

I really need to quit, but am susceptible to depression type symptoms (never diagnosed and never been on meds - except for the time I stupidly ate a packet of Arapax when I was sixteen)

I would still give it a go, with the government subsidy, you won't be paying much for a course of Champix, if you find it doesn't agree with your emotional state though you should probably stop... perhaps see if things like 5HTP or L-Tyrosine work as supplements to balance things out. I found the latter to help a bit.

Recently had another friend who used to take meth and pills quite often start a course of Varenicline and report significant mood problems on it, but she still finished the course. It depends on what you're willing to put up with but as the information sheet states; the moment you have any thoughts approaching "suicide ideation" you should stop immediately.

picadore
10-08-2009, 04:20
My partner is on champix at the moment, she started a week ago and hasn't had any cravings at all, even going out on the weekend and drinking she didn't feel like smoking.

The only difference I've noticed is a small change in her mood and for the first 3-4 days she was very energetic like she had taken stimulants.

She also said she felt sick the first day but wasn't sure if it was from the actual champix or because she heard from so many people that it might make you sick and it was in her head.

pinothippy
10-08-2009, 04:55
I have about 2 weeks left of the 3 month course and i have to say Champix to me is a wonder drug. No cravings at all. No side effects for me at all apart from really vivid dreams.. which i have to say i enjoy and look at as a bonus. 20+ years of smoking over. Yay

bit_pattern
10-08-2009, 05:47
Yes



I would still give it a go, with the government subsidy, you won't be paying much for a course of Champix, if you find it doesn't agree with your emotional state though you should probably stop... perhaps see if things like 5HTP or L-Tyrosine work as supplements to balance things out. I found the latter to help a bit.

Recently had another friend who used to take meth and pills quite often start a course of Varenicline and report significant mood problems on it, but she still finished the course. It depends on what you're willing to put up with but as the information sheet states; the moment you have any thoughts approaching "suicide ideation" you should stop immediately.

Cool, thanks. I certainly haven't been using dopaminergic drugs regularly for a few years now (except for coke but that was in South America, so is hardly going to be a problem over here considering my finances :!)

I am starting a new job next week so am a bit concerned that it might not be the best time to be experimenting with potentially mood-altering drugs, but if something goes wrong I guess at the end of the day it is better to lose/quit a job than to keep destroying my poor, aching lungs.

bit_pattern
10-08-2009, 05:48
Give bupropion if you dont want to use Champix..


Sound worse imho

bit_pattern
10-08-2009, 05:50
and, hoptis, still off the smokes?

mrephedrine69
10-08-2009, 08:14
Best stuff ever. I smoked a pack a day for 12 years and with Champix I have now been smoke free for 18 months.

bit_pattern
10-08-2009, 10:28
That's it. I'm in.

mrephedrine69
10-08-2009, 10:31
That's it. I'm in.

Well worth it. I have 3 other mates that quit with it as well :)

For the sake of $60 (not even a weeks worth of smokes) whilst its subsidised by the government, you'd be crazy not to give it a go.

Without the current government subsidy the cost of Champix is in the hundreds.

hoptis
10-08-2009, 13:45
and, hoptis, still off the smokes?

I didn't finish the first course, it got me almost completely off the cigarettes at the time but I wasn't in the right frame of mind to be dealing with the side-effects.

bit_pattern
10-08-2009, 14:03
Well worth it. I have 3 other mates that quit with it as well :)

For the sake of $60 (not even a weeks worth of smokes) whilst its subsidised by the government, you'd be crazy not to give it a go.

Without the current government subsidy the cost of Champix is in the hundreds.

I've got a healthcare card atm too, so might even get it cheaper

nabollocks
10-08-2009, 22:29
Sound worse imho

Don't bag it till you have tried it.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that bupropion substitutes for stimulants quite well.

IMHO it works.

PBS notes:
Only one course of PBS-subsidised bupropion hydrochloride will be authorised per 12 months. The period between commencing a course of bupropion hydrochloride and varenicline tartrate must be at least 6 months. A course of treatment with bupropion hydrochloride is 9 weeks. No increased maximum quantities or repeats will be authorised. Clinical review is recommended within 2 to 3 weeks of the original prescription being requested.

Commencement of short-term, sole PBS-subsidised, therapy as an aid to achieving abstinence in a patient who has indicated they are ready to cease smoking and:

(a) who has entered a comprehensive support and counselling program; or

(b) who is entering a comprehensive support and counselling program during the consultation at which this authority is requested.

Details of the program must be specified in the authority application.

I know which one I would be using ;)

bit_pattern
13-08-2009, 02:31
Just basing it on the Wiki entry, compared to the entry on Champix, not knocking it just saying it sounds worse.

Does anyone know whether a doctor is likely to prescribe Champix in conjunction with Xanax to take the edge off the psychological side effects of this drug? I'm going to hit my doctor up and see what he says, just wondering if anyone has tried it and whether its worth it.

pinothippy
13-08-2009, 03:27
I didnt get any phsycological effects at all apart from vivid dreams.. I'm sure some people do but you are assuming you will need xanax when in all probability you wont. I cant see a Dr writing a script for xanax just in case.

bit_pattern
13-08-2009, 04:20
Cool, I guess its something to discuss with my doc if and when I experience any problems.

Was reading the PBS leaflet quoted above, does anyone have any experience with th required counselling? What would it involve?

nabollocks
13-08-2009, 08:38
^Basically your doctor must talk to you about counseling. You either take it or leave it.
You can have up to 12 sessions for free, and then a reassessment.
Do they help? Yes.
Bloody good set up if you ask me. Australia is a great country.

bit_pattern
13-08-2009, 10:46
^Basically your doctor must talk to you about counseling. You either take it or leave it.
You can have up to 12 sessions for free, and then a reassessment.
Do they help? Yes.
Bloody good set up if you ask me. Australia is a great country.

Agreed. You should go and tell some to the americans in the politics forum, they just don't seem to get it.

madmick19
13-08-2009, 11:31
this discussion really points out the holistic approach that you have to take after a long period of skohing or indeed any drug use. By itself medication is helpful but not as affective as when combined with counselling as well.

I think it pays to be mindful of when youre smoking /substance use got worse and if it is stress look at skilling up youre coping mechanisms, rather than fall into aold habits.

I started champix about four weeks ago to assist me to give up pack a day and it seems to be working, i ve had only a few smokes in the last few weeks. I am getting a fair amount f queasyness for about half an hour after i take it but have found that eating soon after has helped.

Also i have found some cognitive and mood differences in since starting........ Always remember after a main effect is a side effect. By my estimation better to give my bady a chance to recover now with some queasiness rather than risk cancer later

hoptis
13-08-2009, 12:40
I forgot about the nausea, that was no fun.

madmick19
13-08-2009, 13:05
champix now have been ordered to have a label: Warning suicide may be a side effect

Im setting that as my bench mark for stopping :) compared to that nausea i can deal with :)

bit_pattern
13-08-2009, 14:57
this discussion really points out the holistic approach that you have to take after a long period of skohing or indeed any drug use. By itself medication is helpful but not as affective as when combined with counselling as well.

I think it pays to be mindful of when youre smoking /substance use got worse and if it is stress look at skilling up youre coping mechanisms, rather than fall into aold habits.

I started champix about four weeks ago to assist me to give up pack a day and it seems to be working, i ve had only a few smokes in the last few weeks. I am getting a fair amount f queasyness for about half an hour after i take it but have found that eating soon after has helped.

Also i have found some cognitive and mood differences in since starting........ Always remember after a main effect is a side effect. By my estimation better to give my bady a chance to recover now with some queasiness rather than risk cancer later

That's the logic I'm working on re: psychological/mood side effects

marley
08-09-2009, 07:36
Just as an update, I didn't end up using Champix, although a friend of mine did and swears by it.

For me, it was two 7mg lines of MDPV three hours apart and an epic night of enlightenment and self realisation (while smoking like a chimney), followed by an equally epic comedown the next day. I decided on the night that I would stop smoking the next morning. Cold Turkey. I haven't had a smoke since, no cravings, no desires, nothing at all.

marklar_the_23rd
09-09-2009, 00:47
Just as an update, I didn't end up using Champix, although a friend of mine did and swears by it.

For me, it was two 70mg lines of MDPV three hours apart and an epic night of enlightenment and self realisation (while smoking like a chimney), followed by an equally epic comedown the next day. I decided on the night that I would stop smoking the next morning. Cold Turkey. I haven't had a smoke since, no cravings, no desires, nothing at all.

70mg of MDPV?! wtf?! for a drug thats active at 5mg, and hell at 15mg, WHAT THE FUCK?! not even my tolerance that high! geewhiz!

i must of been the only person who got constipated from this stuff. for 2 goddamn weeks i couldnt shit, needed some desoxypipradrol ( it makes me shit non stop for the first 3 hours ) to clean myself out. (yeah i know i coulda just had a whatitmacalled... but,.... )

marley
09-09-2009, 08:06
^^ Oops..I meant 7mg. Heh..good pick up!

sir pacman
09-09-2009, 10:39
Brother just started. Going to wait and see how he goes.

pinothippy
10-09-2009, 15:55
I personally think its a wonder drug. I know about 10 people who have used champix to stop..with only one person going back to ciggies so far. 4 months off for me so far and i'm so bloody happy to be rid of the coffin nails. No longer on the champix though i do miss the dreams!

lil angel15
11-09-2009, 12:34
I've heard reasonable feedback for Champix but have seen better results from Alan Carr's book.

Experience??

MatthewD
19-09-2009, 04:28
yeah champix works really well im half way through my treatment at the moment. they do half a fair few side effects though, the first month that i was on them i had a really short temper and was dipping at people over the smallest things. ive also hads alot of weird dreams since i started the treatment. the other 2people i know that halve used have both started smoking again around 8 months after they quit. but yes i would recomend it if you really wanna quit smoking.

MatthewD
19-09-2009, 04:42
oh ive also been smoking alot more weed since i quit smoking and with the money i've saved on cigarettes i have been able to afford to take good drugs on the weekend!

spacefacethebassace
04-11-2009, 03:35
I started taking Chantix yesterday and almost as soon as it kicked in, I noticed a reduced desire to smoke. Furthermore, even though I railed 8 mg hydromorphone and drank a glass of wine, I could not smoke more than 2 cigarettes before I started to feel shaky.

Today, I smoked 3 cigarettes in the morning, and took the Chantix with lunch at 1:30, didn't want a cigarette at all until after dinner, where I lit one up, took three drags, got a mild headache, and put it out.

My dreams last night were fucking insane (esp. considering the hydromorphone as well), but in a good way.

lil angel15
04-11-2009, 04:05
spacefacethebassace - Always be careful when you're mixing Alcohol and Hydromorphone. The combination of the two can lead to CNS depression as well as respiratory depression - not a good mix.

rm2x
04-11-2009, 05:13
^^^ words of wisdom


I'm considering Champix, everyone that I know that has used it has quit.

mister
04-11-2009, 14:02
havnt logged in for a while, but felt the need to share my experience so far with Champix...

I started Champix around 2 weeks ago after a prolonged period of keeping my prescription in my bed side draw. The first thing I noticed almost immediately was the taste of tobacco was absolutely foul, the only way I could describe it was like taking a deep breath of camp fire smoke, it takes your breath away, literally.
The first week was great as the desire to smoke diminished incredibly. Before I go on I think I should point out that I run my own printing and design business which gives me the benefit of smoking non stop through out the day and the first thing I did/do when I got up was have a smoke, and so the last thing I did before sleep was have a smoke, to not want to smoke was like some kind of magic.
Im into the last few days of the first cycle of Champix and I could kill someone, Im the most easy going person you could meet, I step over ants for gawds sake, but these last 4 days have turned me into everything I hate, a grumpy short tempered bastard who has to think twice before opening my gob. I can honestly say I understand the people who do stupid things whilst on Champix and I think the only thing that has stopped me biting someones head off is my habit of over indulging in recreational drugs, by this I mean I know that its the drug that is making me feel like this and I can deal with it, just like the Tuesday after a big bender when you feel shit, I know its the drugs and I compensate. I suppose the question is, have I stopped smoking?......the answer is Ive lost the desire to smoke but not the habit, Ive cut back from around 50 rollies a day, to some days 3 or 4 which is incredible for me.
People debate whether Champix causes the irrational thoughts and actions, or the withdrawal from nicotine, either way is does kill the craving.
The hardest part is breaking the habit, that part Im having trouble with

mister
04-11-2009, 14:10
Id suggest anyone contemplating using Champix to stop smoking watch this 4 part video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIQuwyCi8Xg
Im sure as the video's say that most people will not suffer any ill effects from this drug. Those of you that do should stop immediately and realise its probably the Champix, plus go see your doc