Bupe Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use

ouch ouch

I'm doing this as we speak, and Everclear burned like a bitch.

When I try this tomorrow, I'm going to further it by brushing under my tongue using a pinch of chewing tobacco. That should open up the vessels nice and well ;o

It's likely to do the opposite seeing as Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. You'd get better results from using mouthwash.

Interesting concept. Forgive me for not warning that it burns! I am able to put up with large amounts of pain and discomforting smells/tastes in the name of staying well.

Try using the smallest amount of alcohol possible, and when you put the cotton under your tongue, do not compress the cotton by pushing down. Just let it sit there until the burning sensation goes away, then you can slowly compress the cotton with your tongue.

Best of luck!

thisisntmyrealname said:

As a matter of fact, if I take 3 mg in the morning and then 1 mg at night, some days I get a little nod going after the second dosing. I have noticed this happening probably twice a week. Bupe is such a weird drug!

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I suspect that 1mg is giving you better effects, because buprenorphine is a better agonist in lower doses.

I theorize this, because I began having a rush and a rather enjoyable high once I tapered down to 25%, and now 10% of my original starting dose.

Your results may vary, but there's no harm in trying a lower dose - you can always take more if needed.

Good luck on switching to 6/7's method!

Oxydation said:

I'm doing this as we speak, and Everclear burned like a bitch.

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Yes, it does burn. While the burn may be unpleasant, the total amount of time you spend with the pill dissolving underneath your tongue is less this way (for me, this is a blessing in disguise).

I found it more unpleasant when I would vomit before the pill matter was done dissolving.

^ Yeah, there is a HUGE difference in the amount of time it takes to absorb the Suboxone with the alcoholic solution vs. taking the whole pill sublingually. Not only is the pill already broken up and dissolved into solution, ready to be absorbed immediately, but the alcohol helps speed up the process as well.

thisisntmyrealname said:

^I definitely agree that 6/7s method is MUCH better than plain old sublingual. And I also agree that snorting is more pleasurable. As a matter of fact, if I take 3 mg in the morning and then 1 mg at night, some days I get a little nod going after the second dosing. I have noticed this happening probably twice a week. Bupe is such a weird drug!

I tried 6/7s method again with grain alcohol and found it to be noticeably better than when using belvedere.

I plan on stopping insufflation because I have been doing it for close to a year now (I said 6 months in my last post, but unfortunately that was not accurate) and do not want to develop any long-term damage to my nasal cavity. I will be switching to 6/7's method and will be using grain alcohol.

Thank you again a million times sixpartseven!!

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Awesome, I'm glad it works for you.

One of the main reasons behind all the experimentation I did with this was to find an alternative to snorting and IVing for those of us who didn't want to use those routes. Personally, I think this method is the closest you can get to getting the most out of your Suboxone without "abusing" it (using it other than how it is prescribed). You're not bypassing anything; you're taking it sublingually; and there should be no objection from doctors for adding a tiny bit of alcohol to the mix because, after all, the trials done with Suboxone were done with alcoholic solutions, NOT tablets. Of course, don't go telling your doctor your using this method, because they probably won't see things the same way.

Oxydation said:

I'm doing this as we speak, and Everclear burned like a bitch.

When I try this tomorrow, I'm going to further it by brushing under my tongue using a pinch of chewing tobacco. That should open up the vessels nice and well ;o

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Tobacco will not help.

Jesus I thought Id take advantage of the fact that my dad makes moonshine 200% proof and that I am perscribed suboxone. This is my first time trying this but I want to do it right... I mixed up 1mg moonshine and 4mg sub... omg I seriously had tears rolling down my cheecks (from moonshine) and my face feels like I just did coke lol. Im positive i've used one of the most potent alcohols that you can illegally get your hands on so ill post if I feel a difference as I have it in my mouth now...

...But I dont know if I could do the moonshine again, I dont know if you guys have ever had it but it will seriously take your breath away and makes even the most manly man shead a tear, I hope that it works though cause otherwise I just wasted my dose and some taste buds!

Well for the first time in my life I actually FEEL my dose, though I dont know if this is a good or bad thing, I mean does this tech mean I took a higher dose?

The only reason I thought that chewing tobacco might help is that it has fiberglass and other additives in it that open up the blow vessels and allow the nicotine in.

You really think that it doesn't help any?

I've got 6 X 8mg Subutex. I need these to last as long as possible. So thinking of giving your method a go. I am thinking of starting out taking 3mg in the morning and 1mg in the evening (4mg a day), then maybe cutting it down/moving up if required.

Is it better to do the procedure of crushing the tablets/adding the alcohol on a daily basis or do any of you make a solution to store?

For my plan (3mg AM / 1mg PM) 4mg crushed + 2ml Alcohol. Then that means that 1.5 ml (3mg) in the morning and 0.5ml (1mg) in the evening right?

Is little pea size bits of cotton wool usable? I don't really know what you guys mean when you say a cotton. In the UK everyone uses cigarette filters when filtering etc. I've got access to cotton wool or q-tips, which would be better you reckon?

Great thread by the way, exactly what I'm after at the moment; a way to make these 6 X 8mg Subutex last as long as I can.

Cheers, Oli

This is so interesting to me, and I am going to try this! But a quick question.....does anyone have any tips on how to keep yourself from swallowing while trying to hold the solution in your mouth?? I have found the only way I can keep myself from swalling my dose is my sticking 1/4 of it under my top lip to dissolve and absorb, this way I don't taste the suboxone at all and it gets completely absorbed without my mouth filling up with saliva.....

So 6/7....5-10 minutes is long enough for the bupe to absorb? or should I "TRY" to hold it longer? just a quick question...thanks!

Harley3311 said:

Well for the first time in my life I actually FEEL my dose, though I dont know if this is a good or bad thing, I mean does this tech mean I took a higher dose?

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Yes. Say you normally take 3mg. At 30% BA, that's about .9mg. With alcohol, it's about 1.5mg. So yes, even though you took the same amount of Suboxone, the alcohol made it more potent by allowing more of it to be absorbed and become active than it normally would have. In other words, you took a higher dose than normal. (These numbers were just quick estimates and not actual figures, but they are close enough to demonstrate the difference).

oliphill said:

I've got 6 X 8mg Subutex. I need these to last as long as possible. So thinking of giving your method a go. I am thinking of starting out taking 3mg in the morning and 1mg in the evening (4mg a day), then maybe cutting it down/moving up if required.

Is it better to do the procedure of crushing the tablets/adding the alcohol on a daily basis or do any of you make a solution to store?

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I wrote the plans so that you could prepare a large amount of the ethanol solution and save it for use over a period of time. You can make one-off doses if you want, but it wouldn't hurt to prepare a large amount ahead of time.

For my plan (3mg AM / 1mg PM) 4mg crushed + 2ml Alcohol. Then that means that 1.5 ml (3mg) in the morning and 0.5ml (1mg) in the evening right?

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Yes. That solution would mean there is 1mg per .5ml, so 3mg is 1.5ml and 1mg is .5ml.

Is little pea size bits of cotton wool usable? I don't really know what you guys mean when you say a cotton. In the UK everyone uses cigarette filters when filtering etc. I've got access to cotton wool or q-tips, which would be better you reckon?

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Cotton is the best. Do not use wool. When I say cotton, I was referring to either cotton balls, cotton q-tips, or cigarette filter cotton. Any of those three will work since you are not IVing it.

Great thread by the way, exactly what I'm after at the moment; a way to make these 6 X 8mg Subutex last as long as I can.

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It's great to see this thread helping so many people. I am really happy that I have contributed something so many people have found useful. It's a great feeling to know I have helped you guys, and it's incredible to see it catching on so much. Most importantly, though, I'm just glad you guys have something that is making your Suboxone therapy more effective.

Subs4Opiates said:

This is so interesting to me, and I am going to try this! But a quick question.....does anyone have any tips on how to keep yourself from swallowing while trying to hold the solution in your mouth?? I have found the only way I can keep myself from swalling my dose is my sticking 1/4 of it under my top lip to dissolve and absorb, this way I don't taste the suboxone at all and it gets completely absorbed without my mouth filling up with saliva.....

So 6/7....5-10 minutes is long enough for the bupe to absorb? or should I "TRY" to hold it longer? just a quick question...thanks!

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This is why I suggest absorbing the dose with a small piece of cotton and placing the cotton under your tongue. When you do that, make sure you do not push down on the cotton with your tongue, though. If you do that, it will squeeze the solution out. Just let it sit there and give it a few minutes to absorb. The cotton keeps the solution in place, making it easier to keep from swallowing. Does that make sense? If not, I can try to explain it better. Are you just putting the solution under your tongue, or are you using cotton but still having trouble keeping yourself from swallowing it?

5 - 10 minutes should be enough, yes. This is why I also suggest using a piece of cotton to absorb the solution and placing that cotton under your tongue: after 10 minutes, you can take the cotton out, and if it's still orange, it means there is still some left. When the cotton turns white again, that means all the solution has been absorbed (this trick won't work for Subutex).

Either way, though, it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes because (A) the alcohol speeds up absorption, (B) the Suboxone is already crushed up, which is what takes the most time when taking the pills sublingually, and (C) it's already in solution which means it doesn't have to take as much time to mix with your saliva and be absorbed. The combination of these three things, plus the increase in bioavailability is what makes this technique so beneficial: it cuts time and increases the amount of buprenorphine absorbed.

I have tried this and felt it work but I can't rule out placebo... How is this scientifically plausible?

There's plenty of proof that it's true. One source of proof should be in the hands of every Suboxone maintenance patient. In the pamphlet you're supposed to receive from your doctor when you first get prescribed Suboxone, there's a folded up insert with all the drug information. In one section, it talks about how the trials with Suboxone were done with ethanolic solutions of buprenorphine and naloxone, and that the suggest doses for Suboxone tablets had to be adjusted because ethanolic solutions have a higher bioavailability (they increase sublingual BA by 50 - 70%.) It even has a chart that shows how much Buprenorphine becomes active with certain doses. In one column, it has the dose, and in the next, it has how much of that dose becomes active with the tablet, and in the next column, it has how much of that dose becomes active in an ethanolic solution. This chart is almost identical to the estimations I made in the first post of this thread, and I made these estimations before seeing this chart.

I posted links/quotes to sources in the very first post, so if you read that post, I'm not sure how you missed the evidence. If you'd like, I can dig up plenty more proof.

It works because the alcohol helps the buprenorphine pass into the bloodstream. I'm not sure exactly how it does it, but it could be by opening up the mucous membranes, allowing more to cross, or it may work as a sort of transporter, allowing it to cross in higher concentrations. Whatever way it works, it definitely works and is most definitely NOT placebo. It's scientific fact.

I did this first w/out cotton and yeah i believe that is what made it so difficult to keep from swallowing. So this morning, cut my dose to 3mg and used 151 and cotton. Wow, great great way to prolong a dose. I dosed around 9:00am and I don't feel that it will wear off any quicker this way either. Thanks so much 6/7, you definitely are helping, you did me! And w/in 10 minutes my cotton was white again. I did use 2 pea sized cottons, took about 20 minutes to do both of them, 1 at a time. Definitely not placebo, i agree. I'll be skippin around the rest of the day, too cool

Yeah see the problem with this is the sublingual application of alcohol, holding it in your mouth for that long, wouldnt it enter the bloodstream? And also the risk of ingesting it alone,,, I wouldnt recommend drinking on suboxone at all if you're trying to enjoy it and obviously for harm reduction reasons. I would say that as previously stated, from my experience mouth wash, preferrably scope over listerine, is probobly the best way to prep for sublingual useage. Make sure you rinse well, you don't want your mouth watering too much, for the pills just holding it in longer will have more if it entering your bloodstream and makeing sure you don't get too much saliva going so it all stays under your tounge.

^ The amount you are using is so incredibly low that it will not result in intoxicating effects from the alcohol.

Did you even read the first post? I talk about using .25mls, and at the most 1ml, which is nowhere near enough to get you drunk or cause CNS depression - at least not to the degree that you would have anything to worry about.

Also, the Naloxone in Suboxone has been shown to act like Naltrexone in that it negates some of the effects of alcohol, so, even if it wasn't blocking the effects, with the small amount of alcohol being used, at the worst, the alcohol will cause an incredibly limited amount of effects, leaving you with absolutely nothing to worry about.

When Suboxone was in the human trial phase, they would not have used alcoholic solutions if it was dangerous. This whole method is based on the fact that the suggest doses of Suboxone tablets are based off studies done with alcoholic solutions of buprenorphine and naloxone. I didn't just make this whole thing up. It's a scientifically tested, proven, and valid idea that works wonders for almost everyone that tries it. In the best case scenario, the Naloxone would inhibit the extremely limited effects the alcohol produces, making the alcohol totally inactive, it's only use being to help the Suboxone enter the bloodstream.

Mouthwash has such a small amount of alcohol that it won't help nearly as much as liquor. Also, as far as I'm aware, the alcohol and Suboxone need to be present at the same time for it to be able to help the Suboxone absorb into the bloodstream. If you are using mouthwash, rinsing is going to make it even less likely to help, too. In short: mouthwash is pretty much useless for this.

So yeah, this whole process wouldn't exist, and all the details of it wouldn't be what they are, if it didn't work, and didn't work as best as it possibly could. I appreciate your concern and trying to offer advice on alternative ways to do it, but I have to say that I don't think you're going to find a better way to do it than the way I have outlined.

Subs4Opiates - I'm glad it helped you out, man. Your stories are the ones I like to see in this thread, and it's so awesome to see all kinds of success stories on every page.

I am certainly going to try this soon as I can thanks for the info

I don't understand how more bupe is getting absorbed if alcohol and water both hold the SAME amount of bupe.
The only difference you are feeling is that one method travels through you faster. But if you hold even watered bupe in your mouth long enough its holding the same amount of bupe and the same amount should still eventually absorb into your body.

Ill try it tommorow but I'm a skeptist. I see something like pluggin to be the optimum method of stretching for people who don't wanna inject. I mean you'll be using that hole anyway whether you like it or not, might as well use it for saving money.

Edit: Its tommorow and I tried using 100 proof smirnoffs as the carrier. I also brushed my entire mouth for 5 mins to remove any film that may have slowed down absorption and rinsed with mouthwash. I immediately noticed alcohol in the mouth triggers salivarly glands to salivate which is BAD for absorption. Since your glands push saliva into your mouth, from your glands, it actually appears to prevent the bupe from absorbing. The puddle of alcohol turns into a puddle of a large volume of saliva, and I still tasted a great deal of bupe in it. And then you have to hold the saliva in your mouth just like you would hold in water. I also felt no difference from the bupe at all.

Originally it sounds like a great idea. And it was something I've considering doing myself because alcohol DOES permeate membranes and tissue faster. THe problem is water penetrates just as easily in your body. It will take slower but holding it long enough the bupe should still absord. I can obviously only speak for myself, and my knowledge of chemistry having majored in it. But I think alcohol only does 1 thing and it intially gets like half of the bupe in your blood stream fast. Then as you salivate it most likely pushes the bupe and saliva back into your mouth through reverse osmosis of skin in your mouth. Once the saliva is triggered you have to hold that just like you'd hold it without the alcohol so it keep absorbing. I very much beleive both ways get the same amount of bupe in your body.

I'd also like to see the research that was done on this to see how the designs were done and how they measured the BA (whether it was done by self report or actual physiological measurements which I HIGHLY doubt). And compared to pluggin its still a massive difference. If the BA was even around 50 or 60% it would be a noticeable difference. I think at most you may only be getting an additional 2-3% absorbed.
If you wanna test this put alcohol on a piece of paper, then put water on a piece of paper. Alcohol moves through faster, but BOTH STILL move through the paper COMPLETELY. Thats the defining factor in this and what has led me to believe there is real no significant increase in BA.

^ I think you're confused about how this works and why you should use alcohol with it. The time you hold it in your mouth is not what makes the difference. When you take buprenorphine sublingually, whether you use water with it or not, the bioavailability is about 30 - 50%, which means that only around half of your dose is absorbed. With alcohol, the bioavailability is increased by 50 - 70%, so you're getting more like 60 - 75% of your dose.

It works. Look at how many people have used it successfully in this thread. Look at the information on Suboxone trials and how the trials were done with ethanol solutions. The studies clearly state that the dose for Suboxone tablets had to be adjusted (increased) because the ethanol solutions had higher bioavailability.

Anyone that goes on Suboxone through their doctor has access to this information. In the back of the Suboxone pamphlet is a little folded up insert and in the TRIALS section it says this exact same thing, straight from the company scientist's mouths.