5HTP / MDMA / LSD and Serotonin Syndrome

Hey guys,

I am writing to raise the discussion of keeping your head stocked with the right amount of Serotonin. I have been researching heavily the effects of MDMA and LSD causing a depletion of Serotonin in the body, and how this can be beaten by taking a supplement such as 5HTP or St. Johns Wart. I am also curious to find out more about pre-loading with 5HTP.

The only concerns I have are the risks of Serotonin Syndrome. My understanding is that it is caused by too much serotonin activity in the brain caused by blocking the expulsion of serotonin and overloading the body, usually by combining two or more drugs in that field such as MAOI'S and other anti-depressants. I want to know the real dangers with loading up on 5HTP and then dumping it all out with MDMA or LSD, I imagine it as like a bath tub, if you keep filling it up and emptying it there shouldn't be a problem, yet it is hard to make sense of the information saying that if you combine any two (an inhibiter and a releaser) you are going to be in trouble.

I can understand that if you take too many inhibiters that you will overload, but surely MDMA/LSD will restore the brain to a lower level reducing the risk of serotonin syndrome. Is it correct that these drugs be listed as dangerous when combined.

LSD doesn't "dump" serotonin like MDMA does, not even close.

Search for the thread "5htp rocks!", last post was 3-4 weeks ago, that had some very useful information in it that will answer some of your questions.

Thanks,

I had a look but didn't really think it covered the syndrome side of things very well. It has plenty of good info about what dosages people are taking, and since there not dead I assume that serotonin syndrome hasn't killed them, so that was helpful. Wasn't much on pre-loading either, mainly post recovery or daily use as a supplement.

hope this helps?

pills. (admittedly not all of them are MDMA) but i would take them 1 - 3 times every 2 weeks.
dosage - between 4 and 13 each time.

lsd. (haven't had recently)
but generally will take 1 - 3 tabs / sugarcubes
once or twice a month.

5htp -
daily usage
100mg - 250mg a night. (don't take them on the nights i'm using pills)


i can't say i've noticed any ill-effects from pre-loading on 5htp
in one case it felt like the pill effects were a bit dulled down [didn't have the usual intensity/rushes] compared to normal (this was on green hearts which i've had countless times)

but i've found i'm usually always in a really good mood, still can get a bit shitty when my personal space is encroached upon (usually on public transport, but this gets to it's worst about 2-3 days after i've been on) but i'm claustrophobic so thats to be expected even without drugs.

haven't taken any lsd since i started on the 5htp.

most notable tho, reduced appetite and general energy
and wellness. i don't get sick when i'm taking the 5htp either?

maybe its a coincidence. and i've just developed a good immune system, i don't know much about how certain chemicals work, i'm just good at ingesting them
but i figured if pseudo ephedrine in sudafed releases serotonin to make you feel better, wouldnt 5htp do much the same?

on the other hand it could all be a placebo effect, either way. it seems to be working for me.

lol, js2k6 you take 5htp on a daily basis eh?

I only take maybe 2-3 capsules which is 100mg each after a night out on the binge. When it kicks in, makes sleeping a lot easier and waking up feeling less shitty and less general scatness, there is still scatness next day or the day after but its noticiblely less

Also at js2k6, you eat between 4 to 13 lollies each night out on the binge, wow thats more than a 10pk some nights lol :D

these days i'm trying to cut down to less than a 10pk a weekend, it is working slowly :D

LSD is a serotonin agonist amongst other theoretical modes of action; it won't cause serotonin syndrome when combined with 5-HTP.

As for MDMA, I've never heard of anyone suffering SS from combining it with 5-HTP. I think serotonin levels need to be a lot higher then could be raised by standard 5-HTP use before you're in danger.

I've been taking 5-HTP daily, 100mg in the morning for just over a month now and im not that impressed to be honest.

I dunno, i can't distinguish between placebo and actual noticeable effect. I won't be buying it again.

Have you been taking it for boosting MDMA or for other reasons?

General mood lift, sleep aid, and have tried it after 1 or 2 pills.

I've noticed no difference. Only thing i can be relatively sure of is that its definitely interupted my sleep with extremely vivid dreams.

But i've always been an intense dreamer and actually enjoy it, so it hasn't really effected me.

Either way, without hard evidence to say that it actually does contribute to the boosting of serotonin in the brain, i'd rather a Benzodiazpine the day after rather than 200mg of 5-HTP.

Hard evidence? Here is an article synopsis available from PubMed.

Maybe it's just that you don't need extra serotonin in your brain? Could be that those suffering from lowered levels do actually benefit; I'm not sure if there are any studies into 5-HTPs efficacy at treating serotonin related disorders.

I'd hardly call that hard evidence. It cites no studies, or other references.

Either way, im not convinced. Im glad it works for some, but ill pass.

There's another article linked to on that page which finds 5-HTP was as efficient as an anti-D at treating depression. Here's an article that talks about the same thing.

I'm certain that 5-HTP does cross into the brain; however, whether it is really that effective at treating mood disorders I have no idea. By how much it affects serotonin levels, no idea either.

Mr Blonde said:

I'm certain that 5-HTP does cross into the brain; however, whether it is really that effective at treating mood disorders I have no idea. By how much it affects serotonin levels, no idea either.

Click to expand...

That's exactly what im saying.

That link you posted:

In seven open studies with a total of
350 patients, 55 percent of the patients were
considered to be responders to 5-HTP.14 Overall,
it was found to be effective in five and ineffective
in two of those studies. In seven controlled
studies with a total of 78 patients, a
positive response was noted in 60 percent of
patients.

Click to expand...

Not all that convincing!

I guess the point I was trying to make was that it does boost serotonin levels, which you said you doubted. It seems that it does, but whether this helps people is another question.

60% isn't bad... what's the effectiveness of SSRIs? I wonder if they are similar in that they work best in those who are truly clinically depressed; don't know if you read the articles that were in the news this year about anti-depressants being over prescribed and not actually helping those who had milder depression.

I hate SSRI's. They may help the individuals condition, but from the people i've seen, they become souless zombies.

I think addressing issues within their own head/life, and attending things like therapy and counselling should be the absolute first step before any drugs are even CONSIDERED.

I mean seriously, anti-depressants seriously mess with your brain chemistry, yet they are handed out like they are going out of fashion.

Im more concerned about the drugs that are available at the Pharmacy up the road than i am the meth cook living near me (if there was one).

Yeah, I agree they are handed out far too often. And their effects can be quite drastic.

I have to say though, an SSRI did help me when I suffered from depression; it cut out the lows and the highs and I was zombified, but that was what I needed at the time and therapy at the same time did me so much good. Whenever I read threads on people going on SSRIs on BL, I make sure to mention that therapy can be invaluable in treating anxiety/depression.

Yeah, you sound like you know whats going on.

Good stuff.

Thanks guy.

you say you take the 5htp in the morning,
on the bottle it recommends that it is eaten at night.
so i've been taking them about 1hr before bed. is there any difference?

and first time i took it, i had it around 6pm. felt tired by 8pm

i was under the impression that 5htp worked best at replenishing serotonin while you were asleep. could be way off tho.

i've found that by taking it at night theres no need for other things like valerian to help me sleep in the wake of being up for a few days. i get a good restful sleep.

On the bottle i have it says it can be taken at morning or evening, with or without food. I must admit, i've forgotten occasionally and have taken them at night and even then, apart from disturbed dream patterns, nothing has changed.