-
SIED Moderators: Genetic Freak | Serotonin101
Peptides (CJC, MGF, Frag-HGH, etc)
- Thread starter p-mo
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 12,002
I would think the gains would be more significant from hGH as opposed to hGRH, but this is an assumption; the hGRH is probably cheaper, and may have other benefits. The MGF is supposed to be good for site injections, beyond that I am not entirely sure. As you know, the HGH fragment is supposed to be good for loosing weight...
Why not look into IGF-1LR3...
Why not look into IGF-1LR3...
Furious George
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 643
I've read posts from a number of people on a dedicated body building forum who have been extremely disappointed with the HGH-176-191-Fragment. It was supposed to have these amazing lypolytic properties but people were not convinced at all. The MGF in PEG is pretty popular. I haven't seen any before & after shots, but the feedback was positive. That said, the guys using it never ran it alone, so how they can tell which compound it causing which effect I don't know.
LR3-IGF, MGF seemed to be the most effective ones from the user feedback I've read.
LR3-IGF, MGF seemed to be the most effective ones from the user feedback I've read.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 84,998
IGF is some fucking ANABOLIC shit!!! Jesus christ, that stuff pumps you out of your mind (I guess the insulin properties it has) and recovery on it is EXCELLENT. Expect some nice gains with it (that stay unlike how I am told a good bit of gains on test are hard to keep).
It is also excellent for nagging injuries.
I ran it EOD at 40mcg (Post-workout) and it was excellent. Next time I run IGF I am going to run it MUCH LOWER because I think that is where the true beauty of it will shine through. I think LOW like 5-10ug a day at nighttime or PWO (if I workout that day). I think recovery will be insane with this amount of IGF (which is in and of itself a tremendous increase in natural production).
The secretatogues (sp) like GHRP-6 and Hexarelin (both of which I've run at 100-300ug a day) are really good. They are different from GH in that they act as agonists on (I think) pituary glands and release endo GH. They also can help kickstart natural GH and IGF production so they're good to 'dove-tail' into the end of a IGF or GH cycle.
Next year I plan to run a 4 month cycle of GH followed by a 1 month cycle of Hexarelin (100ug a day, 5x a week) and then a low IGF cycle (10ug a day). I think this will be insane for climbing (I lift but almost exclusively to help with climbing strength).
Hopefully soon chinese vendors will be back up and running after olympics and Raw Deal fiasco. Then these peptides will be cheap again.
It is also excellent for nagging injuries.
I ran it EOD at 40mcg (Post-workout) and it was excellent. Next time I run IGF I am going to run it MUCH LOWER because I think that is where the true beauty of it will shine through. I think LOW like 5-10ug a day at nighttime or PWO (if I workout that day). I think recovery will be insane with this amount of IGF (which is in and of itself a tremendous increase in natural production).
The secretatogues (sp) like GHRP-6 and Hexarelin (both of which I've run at 100-300ug a day) are really good. They are different from GH in that they act as agonists on (I think) pituary glands and release endo GH. They also can help kickstart natural GH and IGF production so they're good to 'dove-tail' into the end of a IGF or GH cycle.
Next year I plan to run a 4 month cycle of GH followed by a 1 month cycle of Hexarelin (100ug a day, 5x a week) and then a low IGF cycle (10ug a day). I think this will be insane for climbing (I lift but almost exclusively to help with climbing strength).
Hopefully soon chinese vendors will be back up and running after olympics and Raw Deal fiasco. Then these peptides will be cheap again.
p-mo
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2004
- Messages
- 2,485
What do peeps think of the IM versus Sub-Q debate on LR3IGF-1?
Im kinda worried about organ growth from systematic release of IGF1. This would be my primary concern using a secretalouge GH formula. No-one wants the Coleman gut!
Is there a rebound effect from using secretalouges? Like using MDMA releasing all your seretonin I'd be worried about my pituitary spitting out all my GH and not being able to manufacture enough. Should GABA/Arginine be used with them to reduce this kind of effect?
Oh and CJC-1295 dosing is something like 1mg sub-q once a week? or 500mcg 2x a week?
Ive heard that LR3IGF-1 should be run before an AAS cycle. This is because IGF is great at creating (new) satelite cells and then the AAS is good for growing these new cells. Have I been informed correctly?
Im kinda worried about organ growth from systematic release of IGF1. This would be my primary concern using a secretalouge GH formula. No-one wants the Coleman gut!
Is there a rebound effect from using secretalouges? Like using MDMA releasing all your seretonin I'd be worried about my pituitary spitting out all my GH and not being able to manufacture enough. Should GABA/Arginine be used with them to reduce this kind of effect?
Oh and CJC-1295 dosing is something like 1mg sub-q once a week? or 500mcg 2x a week?
Ive heard that LR3IGF-1 should be run before an AAS cycle. This is because IGF is great at creating (new) satelite cells and then the AAS is good for growing these new cells. Have I been informed correctly?
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 84,998
I was not aware there was a IGF IM versus subq debate. It will work good either way (a bunch goes systemic even when IM is utilized). I think IGF should be injected into the muscles you most want growth though. I did quads, hams, traps, calfs, and delts. Rotate them and use the site that you most worked (like obviously your squat day you'd do quads and deadlift day do hams, etc etc).
As long as you're eating above maintenance I wouldnt worry about a rebound effect with the secretagoues. I have used a lot of GHRP-6 and Hexarelin the last year and AT MOST there is a 3-4 day inhibition after a 1-2 month use of them. Its hard to tell really.
Once you get attuned to GH release you can notice your natural endo release which is cool (I notice it mainly by noticing a change in my forearms and hands).
I don't know anything about CJC-1295. Sounds promising? Dunno though...
people that use test and the rest (hehe) say that IGF works REALLY well with their cycles (they do it before to get bigger gains during the cycle and after to help keep gains).
I think there is some weight to what they're saying. But, if you work hard you can use IGF naturally you'll just have to wait a bit longer for those muscle fibers to develop than you would if you aren't on a shitton of testosterone.
Sorry if any of this is unclear. Its just what I have found with my own experience and researching a lot (reading lots of articles) and reading people's reports.
I am going to use IGF in the future but it will be non-standard use compared to bodybuilders (like I said, I'm gonna do 5-10ug a day to aid in recovery from intense periods of training for climbing).
As long as you're eating above maintenance I wouldnt worry about a rebound effect with the secretagoues. I have used a lot of GHRP-6 and Hexarelin the last year and AT MOST there is a 3-4 day inhibition after a 1-2 month use of them. Its hard to tell really.
Once you get attuned to GH release you can notice your natural endo release which is cool (I notice it mainly by noticing a change in my forearms and hands).
I don't know anything about CJC-1295. Sounds promising? Dunno though...
people that use test and the rest (hehe) say that IGF works REALLY well with their cycles (they do it before to get bigger gains during the cycle and after to help keep gains).
I think there is some weight to what they're saying. But, if you work hard you can use IGF naturally you'll just have to wait a bit longer for those muscle fibers to develop than you would if you aren't on a shitton of testosterone.
Sorry if any of this is unclear. Its just what I have found with my own experience and researching a lot (reading lots of articles) and reading people's reports.
I am going to use IGF in the future but it will be non-standard use compared to bodybuilders (like I said, I'm gonna do 5-10ug a day to aid in recovery from intense periods of training for climbing).
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 84,998
yeah people say it is crazy huge gains to do IGF and test/various other anabolics.
Like I said, the biggest gains seem to be week 1-4 doing IGF then the last four weeks also running IGF. One fellow said he actually GAINED the last 4 weeks of his cycle when he was doing the anti-estrogens or whatever (I honestly don't know much about steroid cycles so I could have something wrong).
But I do know its ExTREMELY rare to GAIN during the PCT!!
Like I said, the biggest gains seem to be week 1-4 doing IGF then the last four weeks also running IGF. One fellow said he actually GAINED the last 4 weeks of his cycle when he was doing the anti-estrogens or whatever (I honestly don't know much about steroid cycles so I could have something wrong).
But I do know its ExTREMELY rare to GAIN during the PCT!!
In the Eyes of God
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 241
LMAO wtf Samadhi you smoke CRACK hardcore.
IGF/LR3IGF-1 is NOTHING like what you are saying. NOTHING.
Ive been using Lr3IGF-1 since I was 18 years old. When I first used it I was using the australian company who created it, GroPep's stuff before they caught on that 99% of their sales were to bodybuilders.
Ive also used GenSci's Igtropin (overpriced bullshit), generic chinese LR3IGF-1 (blue top), and LR3IGF-1 from a half dozen various suppliers.
Its alright. But not in anyway shape or form anything like what your saying.
First, LR3IGF-1 nor IGF-1 gives DICKALL for gains. Seriously. Anyone is DAMN LUCKY if they gain just 5lbs in a 4 week cycle of LR3IGF-1. I can gain 30lbs in 4 weeks with Dianabol at 1/5th the cost of LR3IGF-1.
Lr3IGF-1 gives OKAY pumps. NOTHING like what your saying, nothing. Try OXANDROLONE if you want to feel a REAL PUMP, will make Lr3IGF-1 pumps look like a day at the beach...... *reminiscing time - wavey flashback distortions* Years ago a new canadian UG lab released an Oxandrolone product that was supposed to be 25mg/capsule of Oxandrolone. However to stir up good feedback with their first batch, they doubled up the dosage, to 50mg per capsule yet said it was just 25mg. So everyone, including me, was taking 2 capsules thinking we was using 50mg, but in reality using 100mg (a whopping dose of Oxandrolone). Just standing there, not lifting any weights or anything, gave such an INTENSE pump in the lower back it was painful as fucking hell, this is without any exercise, just simply standing there. If I lifted a cup of coffee my arms would get pumped, if I lifted a weight, theyd get so pumped I was literally afraid the muscle was going to rip off its ligaments from the pump alone.
Even off 50mg of Oxandrolone, I get pretty bad lower back pain from the lower back PUMP, this is without exercise. Alls I do is take 50mg of Oxandrolone, and walk up 15 steps, and by the top my lower back is pumped up so tightly it actually hurts.
Lr3IGF-1 has never come 1/10th as close. I get better pumps from many other AAS, LR3IGF-1 pumps are 6/10 on my pump scale. Oxandrolone is 10/10.
Lr3IGF-1 and HGH do dickall for mass gains, dick-fucking-all. What they do do and why people DO use them is because they allow body composition changes. Meaning you can gain 2lbs in a 4 week Lr3IGF-1 cycle, yet at the same time, you lost 3lbs of fat as well. Not many steroids can make you LOSE fat and gain muscle simultaneously. THATS why we use LR3IGF-1 and HGH, because they allow that. But neither the fat loss nor the muscle gain will be as dramatic as what you can achieve with either steroids or special lipolytic agents. Instead you get a balance between the two happening simultaneously, which is beneficial. This is why people ADD steroids and/or lipolytic agents ontop of the Lr3IGF-1 or HGH, to further expand its effects in either or both directions.
Now that-that totally exaggerated bullshit has been cleared out. Onto the topic at hand.
HGH fragment = complete scam, useless shit, utterly, useless, dont ever waste a penny, horrible failure to deliver ANYTHING
PEG-MGF = totally nutsuckingly shitty, another utter failure to deliver anything, local, systemic, either way, it blows chunks, simply not worth the money, too little result for too much cash, save ur cash, pegylation sucks compared to bioconjugation, and MGF sucks period
CJC-1295 = GOD!! fucking GOD! Ive been using this almost non-stop since the day I first tried it. This shit is GOD. The single most beautifully developed peptide ever to come across the BBing scene. In-fucking-credible. This is seriously a FLAWLESSLY designed pharmacologic agent. The things ConjuChem did for developing this peptide is phenomenal. Ive never been more proud to be Canadian (ConjuChem is Montreal based company!). Even more incredible, this product provides the perfect foundation for enhancing it to a level greater than anything thats ever existed for the bodybuilding scene before. Something I discovered that ive been experimenting with for the past little while that no one else seems to have realized, and I need to break the silence on it and open up the can of worms.
Im telling you, CJC-1295 is PEPTIDE PERFECTION. There will never, ever, be any greater peptide than this peptide to ever hit the BBing scene, ever, thats a guarantee. It cannot get any better than this, it really cannot its the pinnacle. Lr3IGF-1 is OBSOLETE, HGH is OBSOLETE, SERMORELIN? HEXARELIN? GHRELIN? GHRP-2? GHRP-6? ALL OBSOLETE, LAUGHABLE by comparison. Its PERFECT dude.
First these dudes (ConjuChem) realized that natural pulsatile release patterns are more effective and less likely to promote acromegalic deformations verse exogenously supplier recombinant HGH. So they chose GHRH to base their masterpiece off of, and thats exactly what it is a fawkin masterpiece.
Next, these sons of bitches analyzed all the proteases in the body that cleave various amino acids from the GHRH peptide and therefore degrade and deactivate it after approximately 7 minutes. They then chose to remove all the exact specific amino acids that undergo proteolytic cleavage in the GHRH peptide string and replace them with amino acids that cannot be cleaved by the bodies proteases. GENIUS. It makes it virtually immortal. They then modify it to undergo bioconjugation and bind to albumin, one of the most abundant compounds in the body, to further enhance its duration and prevent its clearance from the body. Creating a monstrously mutant masterpiece.
GHRH lasts around 7 minutes because of proteolytic cleavage. CJC-1295, a GHRH-derivative, lasts between 8-10 days from a SINGLE injection. Because its a GHS (Growth Hormone Secretagogue), it maintains the natural pulsatile release patterns rather than injecting exogenous recombinant growth hormone. By maintaing the patterns it allows the bodies other systems to work in harmony with it, such as GHBP's (Growth Hormone Binding Proteins), GHBP's control/prevent side effects such as acromegaly by dictating the actions of GH, like IGFBP's dictate the actions of IGF-1. When you inject exogenous HGH, the body isnt "prepared" for its existence, therefore it does not provide sufficien GHBP's to control its actions, etc, and therefore you get random abnormal growth of organs and such because theres insufficient GHBP's to deliver the HGH to where its NEEDED, and instead it just binds to whatever receptors it comes across at random. This leads to acromegalic side effects more readily.
CJC-1295 has many more things going for it as well aside from flawless pharmacokinetics. Its LEGAL. When you buy it you KNOW what your getting, not like HGH which is sometimes HCG counterfeits. Your not going to get scammed trying to buy it like what happens countless times buying HGH. Its much cheaper to use than HGH. From the resellers you pay about $100/2mg, from the China supplier (who supplies the resellers too), its just $40/2mg when buying 10mg. Even cheaper if you buy more than 10mg.
So how does CJC-1295 and GHRH work?
They are GHS, Growth Hormone Secretagogues. They work by binding to the GHSR (Growth Hormone Secretagogue Receptor), where they signal the pituitary to release HGH. Once a 'surge' of HGH is released, the negative feedback mechanism kicks in and causes a rise in Somatostatin. Somatostatin is an inhibitor of HGH release. Once somatostatin levels decline, more HGH can be released, but wont be released immediately in the natural endocrine system. However because CJC-1295 lasts 8-10 days straight and thus signals the GHSR 24 hours a day for 8-10 days straight, the moment somatostatin levels decline after a surge, the CJC-1295 will immediately signal another surge. This occurs throughout the entire day and while you sleep.
HGH lasts only like 15-20 or so minutes in the body before its deactivated by proteases and whatnot. Because of CJC-1295's constant GHSR agonist activity, you therefore get MANY surges of HGH per day. Rather than just a couple under normal endocrine activity with GHRH. And rather than just 1 additional surge you get when injecting exogenous recombinant HGH.
This is why HGH takes sooo long to show results. Because everyday you inject it, your only getting 15-20 minutes of supraphysiological HGH exposure. Therefore if HGH lasted lets say 10 minutes, after 7 days of injecting, thats only 70 minutes of total exposure to supraphysiological HGH youve had. The body cant do much growing in just 70 minutes. Hence why it takes months of HGH use to accumulate significant enough time under supraphysiological levels to elicit a noticeable effect. CJC-1295 on the otherhand gives MANY surges per day, therefore its like injecting HGH 10 or 20 times or even more in a single day. The results come FAR faster and are greater.
CJC-1295 gives me the most INSANELY vivid and long lasting dreams. It also gives me numb extremeties and all the other effects of supraphysiological HGH levels. GREAT STUFF.
I will expand into my "UBER-PITUITARY" optimizing method tommorow when I explain why CJC-1295 is the PERFECT foundation for doing something simply INCREDIBLE.
In short: CJC-1295 is the greatest peptide ever made available. It makes ALL other peptides useless. L3IGF-1 is useless. HGH is useless. Its all useless now. CJC-1295 has taken over. Its the only thing worth buying.
IGF/LR3IGF-1 is NOTHING like what you are saying. NOTHING.
Ive been using Lr3IGF-1 since I was 18 years old. When I first used it I was using the australian company who created it, GroPep's stuff before they caught on that 99% of their sales were to bodybuilders.
Ive also used GenSci's Igtropin (overpriced bullshit), generic chinese LR3IGF-1 (blue top), and LR3IGF-1 from a half dozen various suppliers.
Its alright. But not in anyway shape or form anything like what your saying.
First, LR3IGF-1 nor IGF-1 gives DICKALL for gains. Seriously. Anyone is DAMN LUCKY if they gain just 5lbs in a 4 week cycle of LR3IGF-1. I can gain 30lbs in 4 weeks with Dianabol at 1/5th the cost of LR3IGF-1.
Lr3IGF-1 gives OKAY pumps. NOTHING like what your saying, nothing. Try OXANDROLONE if you want to feel a REAL PUMP, will make Lr3IGF-1 pumps look like a day at the beach...... *reminiscing time - wavey flashback distortions* Years ago a new canadian UG lab released an Oxandrolone product that was supposed to be 25mg/capsule of Oxandrolone. However to stir up good feedback with their first batch, they doubled up the dosage, to 50mg per capsule yet said it was just 25mg. So everyone, including me, was taking 2 capsules thinking we was using 50mg, but in reality using 100mg (a whopping dose of Oxandrolone). Just standing there, not lifting any weights or anything, gave such an INTENSE pump in the lower back it was painful as fucking hell, this is without any exercise, just simply standing there. If I lifted a cup of coffee my arms would get pumped, if I lifted a weight, theyd get so pumped I was literally afraid the muscle was going to rip off its ligaments from the pump alone.
Even off 50mg of Oxandrolone, I get pretty bad lower back pain from the lower back PUMP, this is without exercise. Alls I do is take 50mg of Oxandrolone, and walk up 15 steps, and by the top my lower back is pumped up so tightly it actually hurts.
Lr3IGF-1 has never come 1/10th as close. I get better pumps from many other AAS, LR3IGF-1 pumps are 6/10 on my pump scale. Oxandrolone is 10/10.
Lr3IGF-1 and HGH do dickall for mass gains, dick-fucking-all. What they do do and why people DO use them is because they allow body composition changes. Meaning you can gain 2lbs in a 4 week Lr3IGF-1 cycle, yet at the same time, you lost 3lbs of fat as well. Not many steroids can make you LOSE fat and gain muscle simultaneously. THATS why we use LR3IGF-1 and HGH, because they allow that. But neither the fat loss nor the muscle gain will be as dramatic as what you can achieve with either steroids or special lipolytic agents. Instead you get a balance between the two happening simultaneously, which is beneficial. This is why people ADD steroids and/or lipolytic agents ontop of the Lr3IGF-1 or HGH, to further expand its effects in either or both directions.
Now that-that totally exaggerated bullshit has been cleared out. Onto the topic at hand.
HGH fragment = complete scam, useless shit, utterly, useless, dont ever waste a penny, horrible failure to deliver ANYTHING
PEG-MGF = totally nutsuckingly shitty, another utter failure to deliver anything, local, systemic, either way, it blows chunks, simply not worth the money, too little result for too much cash, save ur cash, pegylation sucks compared to bioconjugation, and MGF sucks period
CJC-1295 = GOD!! fucking GOD! Ive been using this almost non-stop since the day I first tried it. This shit is GOD. The single most beautifully developed peptide ever to come across the BBing scene. In-fucking-credible. This is seriously a FLAWLESSLY designed pharmacologic agent. The things ConjuChem did for developing this peptide is phenomenal. Ive never been more proud to be Canadian (ConjuChem is Montreal based company!). Even more incredible, this product provides the perfect foundation for enhancing it to a level greater than anything thats ever existed for the bodybuilding scene before. Something I discovered that ive been experimenting with for the past little while that no one else seems to have realized, and I need to break the silence on it and open up the can of worms.
Im telling you, CJC-1295 is PEPTIDE PERFECTION. There will never, ever, be any greater peptide than this peptide to ever hit the BBing scene, ever, thats a guarantee. It cannot get any better than this, it really cannot its the pinnacle. Lr3IGF-1 is OBSOLETE, HGH is OBSOLETE, SERMORELIN? HEXARELIN? GHRELIN? GHRP-2? GHRP-6? ALL OBSOLETE, LAUGHABLE by comparison. Its PERFECT dude.
First these dudes (ConjuChem) realized that natural pulsatile release patterns are more effective and less likely to promote acromegalic deformations verse exogenously supplier recombinant HGH. So they chose GHRH to base their masterpiece off of, and thats exactly what it is a fawkin masterpiece.
Next, these sons of bitches analyzed all the proteases in the body that cleave various amino acids from the GHRH peptide and therefore degrade and deactivate it after approximately 7 minutes. They then chose to remove all the exact specific amino acids that undergo proteolytic cleavage in the GHRH peptide string and replace them with amino acids that cannot be cleaved by the bodies proteases. GENIUS. It makes it virtually immortal. They then modify it to undergo bioconjugation and bind to albumin, one of the most abundant compounds in the body, to further enhance its duration and prevent its clearance from the body. Creating a monstrously mutant masterpiece.
GHRH lasts around 7 minutes because of proteolytic cleavage. CJC-1295, a GHRH-derivative, lasts between 8-10 days from a SINGLE injection. Because its a GHS (Growth Hormone Secretagogue), it maintains the natural pulsatile release patterns rather than injecting exogenous recombinant growth hormone. By maintaing the patterns it allows the bodies other systems to work in harmony with it, such as GHBP's (Growth Hormone Binding Proteins), GHBP's control/prevent side effects such as acromegaly by dictating the actions of GH, like IGFBP's dictate the actions of IGF-1. When you inject exogenous HGH, the body isnt "prepared" for its existence, therefore it does not provide sufficien GHBP's to control its actions, etc, and therefore you get random abnormal growth of organs and such because theres insufficient GHBP's to deliver the HGH to where its NEEDED, and instead it just binds to whatever receptors it comes across at random. This leads to acromegalic side effects more readily.
CJC-1295 has many more things going for it as well aside from flawless pharmacokinetics. Its LEGAL. When you buy it you KNOW what your getting, not like HGH which is sometimes HCG counterfeits. Your not going to get scammed trying to buy it like what happens countless times buying HGH. Its much cheaper to use than HGH. From the resellers you pay about $100/2mg, from the China supplier (who supplies the resellers too), its just $40/2mg when buying 10mg. Even cheaper if you buy more than 10mg.
So how does CJC-1295 and GHRH work?
They are GHS, Growth Hormone Secretagogues. They work by binding to the GHSR (Growth Hormone Secretagogue Receptor), where they signal the pituitary to release HGH. Once a 'surge' of HGH is released, the negative feedback mechanism kicks in and causes a rise in Somatostatin. Somatostatin is an inhibitor of HGH release. Once somatostatin levels decline, more HGH can be released, but wont be released immediately in the natural endocrine system. However because CJC-1295 lasts 8-10 days straight and thus signals the GHSR 24 hours a day for 8-10 days straight, the moment somatostatin levels decline after a surge, the CJC-1295 will immediately signal another surge. This occurs throughout the entire day and while you sleep.
HGH lasts only like 15-20 or so minutes in the body before its deactivated by proteases and whatnot. Because of CJC-1295's constant GHSR agonist activity, you therefore get MANY surges of HGH per day. Rather than just a couple under normal endocrine activity with GHRH. And rather than just 1 additional surge you get when injecting exogenous recombinant HGH.
This is why HGH takes sooo long to show results. Because everyday you inject it, your only getting 15-20 minutes of supraphysiological HGH exposure. Therefore if HGH lasted lets say 10 minutes, after 7 days of injecting, thats only 70 minutes of total exposure to supraphysiological HGH youve had. The body cant do much growing in just 70 minutes. Hence why it takes months of HGH use to accumulate significant enough time under supraphysiological levels to elicit a noticeable effect. CJC-1295 on the otherhand gives MANY surges per day, therefore its like injecting HGH 10 or 20 times or even more in a single day. The results come FAR faster and are greater.
CJC-1295 gives me the most INSANELY vivid and long lasting dreams. It also gives me numb extremeties and all the other effects of supraphysiological HGH levels. GREAT STUFF.
I will expand into my "UBER-PITUITARY" optimizing method tommorow when I explain why CJC-1295 is the PERFECT foundation for doing something simply INCREDIBLE.
In short: CJC-1295 is the greatest peptide ever made available. It makes ALL other peptides useless. L3IGF-1 is useless. HGH is useless. Its all useless now. CJC-1295 has taken over. Its the only thing worth buying.
Until reading about these I thought GH and it's relatives were too much of a risk. the sides seemed to be too much, but from what I understand there is less sides with the peptides. I'm already planning to use them one day if the mrs. allows me.
In the Eyes of God
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 241
Fukhed, HGH doesnt have many side effects not sure where you get that from.
In the short term, GH side effects are all that from supraphysiological levels of growth hormone. Meaning, if your NOT experiencing these side effects, it means your NOT using a large enough dosage of HGH (or CJC-1295 or anyother somatotropic-modulator) to bring your GH levels beyond their natural levels thus causing the side effects of supraphysiological levels. So you WANT to exeperience these short-term below side effects;
- Vivid dreams (long, vivid dreams you'll rememebver well)
- Numbing in the extremeties (fingers/hands should go numbish)
- Aching joints (its not a painful ache really, its a very very very dull ache feeling in the joints - like growing pains)
- Mild hypoglycemia if on a low-carb diet (eating carbs is a must when using HGH/IGF-1 otherwise you'll notice mild hypoglycemia as in you'll feel faint, weak, fatigued, lightheaded, dizzy, you wont go comatose but it does take you down a notch)
You WANT to experience the above, that lets you know your using a high enough dosage. If you dont experience those, you must increase your dosage, as it means your only using a large enough dosage to replace your natural levels, which defeats the entire purpose of using GH/GH-mimetics. None of these side effects have any long-term reprecussions.
Long-term side effects are those below. However these take YEARS to develop, you must use HGH and friends for months or years straight, or very frequently, before you will have a chance of developing these to a notiecable level, the average GH user wont ever worry about these to any significant degree unless theyre spending $20,000+ dollars on HGH;
- Excess organ enlargening
- Excess circumferential skeletal growth (acromegalic facial distortions such as enlarged forehead and thickened brow-bone creating neanderthal look)
- Increased hand and foot size
Whereas anabolic steroids can have side effects that appear MUCH MUCH faster (weeks or even days for some), and can be pretty nasty and some long-term;
- Acne or BACNE (rocky mountain back which virtually never goes away)
- Extreme body hair growth (I can vouch for this disgusting side effect, I HATE IT, 24/7 battle against the body hair)
- Liver damage
- Cholesterol problems
- Accelerated male pattern baldness
- Increased blood pressure
- Infertility/testicular problems
- Breast development (gyno)
I think GH/IGF-1 have much less side effects than AAS. The short-term sides of GH are indicators of effectiveness and dont ever stay after you discontinue use. The long-term sides take a long long time to develop, ive been using for years and never encountered any noticeable changes in facial bone or anything. Alls ive noticed is mild increase in hand and feet size and tiny increase in wrist circumference. I feel way more comfortable, side effect wise, using HGH than steroids thats for sure. Im sure MOST do.
I mean with AAS you NEED to use lots of ancillary components to prevent the side effects, such as aromatase inhibitors, alpha-reductase inhibitors, blood pressure meds (for some users), liver protectorants, special acne meds, post-cycle therapy protocols, etc.
But you dont need nor does anyone use anything to combat GH/IGF-1 side effects because theyre virtually non-existent in the long-term. And the short-term effects have no relavancy to anything other than to identify the legitimacy of the stuff your using and the effectiveness of your dosage.
In the short term, GH side effects are all that from supraphysiological levels of growth hormone. Meaning, if your NOT experiencing these side effects, it means your NOT using a large enough dosage of HGH (or CJC-1295 or anyother somatotropic-modulator) to bring your GH levels beyond their natural levels thus causing the side effects of supraphysiological levels. So you WANT to exeperience these short-term below side effects;
- Vivid dreams (long, vivid dreams you'll rememebver well)
- Numbing in the extremeties (fingers/hands should go numbish)
- Aching joints (its not a painful ache really, its a very very very dull ache feeling in the joints - like growing pains)
- Mild hypoglycemia if on a low-carb diet (eating carbs is a must when using HGH/IGF-1 otherwise you'll notice mild hypoglycemia as in you'll feel faint, weak, fatigued, lightheaded, dizzy, you wont go comatose but it does take you down a notch)
You WANT to experience the above, that lets you know your using a high enough dosage. If you dont experience those, you must increase your dosage, as it means your only using a large enough dosage to replace your natural levels, which defeats the entire purpose of using GH/GH-mimetics. None of these side effects have any long-term reprecussions.
Long-term side effects are those below. However these take YEARS to develop, you must use HGH and friends for months or years straight, or very frequently, before you will have a chance of developing these to a notiecable level, the average GH user wont ever worry about these to any significant degree unless theyre spending $20,000+ dollars on HGH;
- Excess organ enlargening
- Excess circumferential skeletal growth (acromegalic facial distortions such as enlarged forehead and thickened brow-bone creating neanderthal look)
- Increased hand and foot size
Whereas anabolic steroids can have side effects that appear MUCH MUCH faster (weeks or even days for some), and can be pretty nasty and some long-term;
- Acne or BACNE (rocky mountain back which virtually never goes away)
- Extreme body hair growth (I can vouch for this disgusting side effect, I HATE IT, 24/7 battle against the body hair)
- Liver damage
- Cholesterol problems
- Accelerated male pattern baldness
- Increased blood pressure
- Infertility/testicular problems
- Breast development (gyno)
I think GH/IGF-1 have much less side effects than AAS. The short-term sides of GH are indicators of effectiveness and dont ever stay after you discontinue use. The long-term sides take a long long time to develop, ive been using for years and never encountered any noticeable changes in facial bone or anything. Alls ive noticed is mild increase in hand and feet size and tiny increase in wrist circumference. I feel way more comfortable, side effect wise, using HGH than steroids thats for sure. Im sure MOST do.
I mean with AAS you NEED to use lots of ancillary components to prevent the side effects, such as aromatase inhibitors, alpha-reductase inhibitors, blood pressure meds (for some users), liver protectorants, special acne meds, post-cycle therapy protocols, etc.
But you dont need nor does anyone use anything to combat GH/IGF-1 side effects because theyre virtually non-existent in the long-term. And the short-term effects have no relavancy to anything other than to identify the legitimacy of the stuff your using and the effectiveness of your dosage.
In the Eyes of God
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 241
Now onto enhancing CJC-1295 to blow it into the next universe of effects.
CJC-1295 is the perfect foundation for doing this. Because it lasts 24 hours a day for 8-10 days straight. Whereas GHRH, which does the same signalling of the GHSR, only lasts 7 minutes.
First its important to understand how GH surges work. Pay especial attention to Somatostatin.
When a secretagogue of GH, such as GHRH, Ghrelin, Hexarelin, or CJC-1295, signals the GHSR it causes the pituitary to release HGH, IF, Somatostatin levels are low enough to allow it. Once a surge of GH is released, Somatostatin levels will rise up again, thus even if something is binding to the GHSR, it CANNOT signal the release of GH because Somatostatin levels are too high.
Somatostatin is what controls the negative feedback mechanisms of GH release in the pituitary. After a surge of GH is released from a secretagogue wether natural or man-made, Somatostatin levels will rise, preventing further GH release until the GH levels decrease, at which point the ultra-short feedback mechanisms of the hypothalamus-pituitary-axis (HPA) kick in and cause Somatostatin levels to decrease.
The moment somatostatin levels decrease sufficiently, more GH can be released. However under natural conditions, there wont be sufficient GHRH remaining at the GHSR to cause more GH release once Somatostatin levels decrease. Because GHRH is also released in surges, and only lasts 7 minutes upon its circulating release.
However because CJC-1295 lasts 24 hours a day for 8-10 days, its ALWAYS at the GHSR, so the moment somatostatin levels decrease enough, another surge of GH will happen because CJC-1295 is there binding to the GHSR's. Therefore under naturakl endocrine system, you'd get lets say 5 surges of GH a day. Whereas with CJC-1295, youd get lets say 15 surges of GH a day.
So whats the obvious limiters of GH release?? Well first, is the duration of GHRH or whatever GHS is signaling the release. This has been overcome with CJC-1295.
Whats the second limiter? Somatostatin. Somatostatin is an inhibitor of GH release. Not so easy to fix??? WRONG! This is where I come in.
Amazingly, no one that ive seen has realized this. That is, if you could inhibit Somatostatin levels while using CJC-1295, you would allow the CJC-1295 to signal an ENDLESS surge of GH (so long as the body was producing sufficient peptide, which means you need a high protein diet since peptides are made from amino acids in protein). Yes, thats not a typo, an ENDLESS surge of GH. The equivalent of strapping an IV bag of HGH to your back and walking around all-day with a drip of GH into you. The difference between the "surge" system and that would be night and day. Im not saying its the healthiest or safest thing to do, but it is so far beyond the natural endocrine function it will lead to results never before experienced or even imagined with HGH of any kind or any way previously available. I can vouch for this as ive been experimenting with this recently.
There is a class of compounds called Acetylcholineesterase inhibitors, that inihibit acetylcholineesterase, which is responsible for deactivating acetylcholine in the brain. Guess what? Acetylcholine is a very effective inhibitor of Somatostatin. Therefore Acetylcholineesterase inhibitors are indirect somatostatin inihibitors, working by increasing acetylcholine levels which then inhibit somatostatin levels.
Does this really work? YES, its been clinically proven in numerous studies with stunning results. In the studies they used GHRH + Acetylcholineesterase inhibitor Pyrostigmine at a dosage of 120mg. Remember GHRH only lasts 7 minutes, so they only get a single surge of GH from using it. What the study found is that orally administering Pyrostigmine, an acetylcholineesterase inhibitor, and then injecting GHRH vs. the placebo/control group resulted in a dramatically larger amount of GH released in response to the same dosage of GHRH. This is because somatostatin levels were dramatically lowered, and allowed an even larger amount of GH to be released in response to GHRH.
Had the study used CJC-1295 they wouldve had a far greater result. Not only would more GH be released per surge, but they wouldve had an endless or damn near endless surge of GH release, rather than the normal "Pulsatile" release system which is controlled by:
A) The short duration of GHRH and other endogenous secretagogues (overcome with CJC-1295)
B) The GH-inhibitory action of Somatostatin (overcome with acetylcholineesterase inhibitors)
Acetylcholineesterase inhibitors are taken orally, they are legal and readily available for purchase as they are extracted from natural plant sources. They are CHEAP, costing just a dollar or less per day to use in conjunction with CJC-1295. By taking them you can use a lower CJC-1295 dosage and still get much greater results. It totally changes the pituitary system into what I must call the uber-pituitary.
Normally the pituitary functions like this;
1) Endogenous GH secretagogue such as GHRH or Ghrelin, signals pituitary to release HGH, the amount of GH released is controlled by somatostatin and GHRH quantity.
2) Pituitary releases HGH creating a 'surge', immediately after, somatostatin levels rise thus making the pituitary unresponsive to GHRH or other secretagogues, GHRH remaining becomes deactivated due to proteocyltic cleavage.
3) After the HGH released has become deacticated by the body, Somatostatin levels begin to decrease again, and once more endogenous secretagogues arrive, another surge will occur and repeat process.
The pituitary function using CJC-1295 + a somatostatin inhibitor (in this case acetylcholineesterase inhibitors), functions like this:
1) Exogenously supplied GH secretagogue CJC-1295 signals pituitary to release HGH, the amount of GH released is GREATER than without acetylcholineesterase inhibitor due to suppression of somatostatin.
2) Pituitary releases HGH creating a surge, however, somatostatin levels fail to rise after the release, therefore the pituitary remains responsive to secretagogues to signal more release of HGH, and the CJC-1295 fails to degrade due to its design thus lasting 24 hours a day for 8-10 days from an injection.
3) After the HGH is released, ANOTHER surge is immediatley signalled by the still active CJC-1295, and then another surge, and another, and another, and another, and another, and in the time span that 1 natural surge wouldve happened and another would be ready to go, probably 20x as many surges have already occured.
So for just 50 extra cents a day and the consumption of an oral pill of a legal, readily available compound, you can ABSURDLY modify the pituitary response to CJC-1295 by suppressing Somatostatin. YOUVE BEEN WARNED, this is INSANELY potent, beyond the design of humanity. BE CAREFUL!
Theres 3 common acetylcholineesterase inhibitors, they are;
Pyrostigmine (120mg/ed)
Galantamine (8-16mg/ed)
Huperzine A (50-150mcg/ed)
NOTICE, Huperzine A dosage is in the MICROgrams NOT MILLIgrams. If you took 50mg of Huperzine A you would DIE. I use Huperzine A myself for this. But you can use any of the above, perhaps pyrostigmines better because thats what was proven effective in the clinical studies at that specific dosage. But all three of the above are acetylcholineesterase inhibiors and will thuis have the same inhibitory impact on somatostatin.
This is how, for just an extra 50 cents to a dollar a day, you can turn CJC-1295 into the physiological equivalent of strapping an IV bag of HGH to your back and having a 24 hour drip. As you can imagine this is ABSURDLY POWERFUL and needs great respect and caution when you first begin experimenting. Start with a low CJC-1295 dosage and a low acetylcholineesterase inhibitor dosage, and work from there based on your experiences.
EVERYONE should do this. It gives you FAAAAAAAAAAR more bang for your buck from the CJC-1295, and costs just cents per day to do ontop of CJC-1295 use. Its supported fully by clinical studies, just search for the pyrostigmine/GHRH study.
CJC-1295 is the perfect foundation for doing this. Because it lasts 24 hours a day for 8-10 days straight. Whereas GHRH, which does the same signalling of the GHSR, only lasts 7 minutes.
First its important to understand how GH surges work. Pay especial attention to Somatostatin.
When a secretagogue of GH, such as GHRH, Ghrelin, Hexarelin, or CJC-1295, signals the GHSR it causes the pituitary to release HGH, IF, Somatostatin levels are low enough to allow it. Once a surge of GH is released, Somatostatin levels will rise up again, thus even if something is binding to the GHSR, it CANNOT signal the release of GH because Somatostatin levels are too high.
Somatostatin is what controls the negative feedback mechanisms of GH release in the pituitary. After a surge of GH is released from a secretagogue wether natural or man-made, Somatostatin levels will rise, preventing further GH release until the GH levels decrease, at which point the ultra-short feedback mechanisms of the hypothalamus-pituitary-axis (HPA) kick in and cause Somatostatin levels to decrease.
The moment somatostatin levels decrease sufficiently, more GH can be released. However under natural conditions, there wont be sufficient GHRH remaining at the GHSR to cause more GH release once Somatostatin levels decrease. Because GHRH is also released in surges, and only lasts 7 minutes upon its circulating release.
However because CJC-1295 lasts 24 hours a day for 8-10 days, its ALWAYS at the GHSR, so the moment somatostatin levels decrease enough, another surge of GH will happen because CJC-1295 is there binding to the GHSR's. Therefore under naturakl endocrine system, you'd get lets say 5 surges of GH a day. Whereas with CJC-1295, youd get lets say 15 surges of GH a day.
So whats the obvious limiters of GH release?? Well first, is the duration of GHRH or whatever GHS is signaling the release. This has been overcome with CJC-1295.
Whats the second limiter? Somatostatin. Somatostatin is an inhibitor of GH release. Not so easy to fix??? WRONG! This is where I come in.
Amazingly, no one that ive seen has realized this. That is, if you could inhibit Somatostatin levels while using CJC-1295, you would allow the CJC-1295 to signal an ENDLESS surge of GH (so long as the body was producing sufficient peptide, which means you need a high protein diet since peptides are made from amino acids in protein). Yes, thats not a typo, an ENDLESS surge of GH. The equivalent of strapping an IV bag of HGH to your back and walking around all-day with a drip of GH into you. The difference between the "surge" system and that would be night and day. Im not saying its the healthiest or safest thing to do, but it is so far beyond the natural endocrine function it will lead to results never before experienced or even imagined with HGH of any kind or any way previously available. I can vouch for this as ive been experimenting with this recently.
There is a class of compounds called Acetylcholineesterase inhibitors, that inihibit acetylcholineesterase, which is responsible for deactivating acetylcholine in the brain. Guess what? Acetylcholine is a very effective inhibitor of Somatostatin. Therefore Acetylcholineesterase inhibitors are indirect somatostatin inihibitors, working by increasing acetylcholine levels which then inhibit somatostatin levels.
Does this really work? YES, its been clinically proven in numerous studies with stunning results. In the studies they used GHRH + Acetylcholineesterase inhibitor Pyrostigmine at a dosage of 120mg. Remember GHRH only lasts 7 minutes, so they only get a single surge of GH from using it. What the study found is that orally administering Pyrostigmine, an acetylcholineesterase inhibitor, and then injecting GHRH vs. the placebo/control group resulted in a dramatically larger amount of GH released in response to the same dosage of GHRH. This is because somatostatin levels were dramatically lowered, and allowed an even larger amount of GH to be released in response to GHRH.
Had the study used CJC-1295 they wouldve had a far greater result. Not only would more GH be released per surge, but they wouldve had an endless or damn near endless surge of GH release, rather than the normal "Pulsatile" release system which is controlled by:
A) The short duration of GHRH and other endogenous secretagogues (overcome with CJC-1295)
B) The GH-inhibitory action of Somatostatin (overcome with acetylcholineesterase inhibitors)
Acetylcholineesterase inhibitors are taken orally, they are legal and readily available for purchase as they are extracted from natural plant sources. They are CHEAP, costing just a dollar or less per day to use in conjunction with CJC-1295. By taking them you can use a lower CJC-1295 dosage and still get much greater results. It totally changes the pituitary system into what I must call the uber-pituitary.
Normally the pituitary functions like this;
1) Endogenous GH secretagogue such as GHRH or Ghrelin, signals pituitary to release HGH, the amount of GH released is controlled by somatostatin and GHRH quantity.
2) Pituitary releases HGH creating a 'surge', immediately after, somatostatin levels rise thus making the pituitary unresponsive to GHRH or other secretagogues, GHRH remaining becomes deactivated due to proteocyltic cleavage.
3) After the HGH released has become deacticated by the body, Somatostatin levels begin to decrease again, and once more endogenous secretagogues arrive, another surge will occur and repeat process.
The pituitary function using CJC-1295 + a somatostatin inhibitor (in this case acetylcholineesterase inhibitors), functions like this:
1) Exogenously supplied GH secretagogue CJC-1295 signals pituitary to release HGH, the amount of GH released is GREATER than without acetylcholineesterase inhibitor due to suppression of somatostatin.
2) Pituitary releases HGH creating a surge, however, somatostatin levels fail to rise after the release, therefore the pituitary remains responsive to secretagogues to signal more release of HGH, and the CJC-1295 fails to degrade due to its design thus lasting 24 hours a day for 8-10 days from an injection.
3) After the HGH is released, ANOTHER surge is immediatley signalled by the still active CJC-1295, and then another surge, and another, and another, and another, and another, and in the time span that 1 natural surge wouldve happened and another would be ready to go, probably 20x as many surges have already occured.
So for just 50 extra cents a day and the consumption of an oral pill of a legal, readily available compound, you can ABSURDLY modify the pituitary response to CJC-1295 by suppressing Somatostatin. YOUVE BEEN WARNED, this is INSANELY potent, beyond the design of humanity. BE CAREFUL!
Theres 3 common acetylcholineesterase inhibitors, they are;
Pyrostigmine (120mg/ed)
Galantamine (8-16mg/ed)
Huperzine A (50-150mcg/ed)
NOTICE, Huperzine A dosage is in the MICROgrams NOT MILLIgrams. If you took 50mg of Huperzine A you would DIE. I use Huperzine A myself for this. But you can use any of the above, perhaps pyrostigmines better because thats what was proven effective in the clinical studies at that specific dosage. But all three of the above are acetylcholineesterase inhibiors and will thuis have the same inhibitory impact on somatostatin.
This is how, for just an extra 50 cents to a dollar a day, you can turn CJC-1295 into the physiological equivalent of strapping an IV bag of HGH to your back and having a 24 hour drip. As you can imagine this is ABSURDLY POWERFUL and needs great respect and caution when you first begin experimenting. Start with a low CJC-1295 dosage and a low acetylcholineesterase inhibitor dosage, and work from there based on your experiences.
EVERYONE should do this. It gives you FAAAAAAAAAAR more bang for your buck from the CJC-1295, and costs just cents per day to do ontop of CJC-1295 use. Its supported fully by clinical studies, just search for the pyrostigmine/GHRH study.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 84,998
I'm going to try it after a little more research. I have one month to tinker around with some peptides (june) and that will be when I add huperzine to the mix (was thinking about trying this nootropic anyways based on its other cognitive effects).
Do you supplement with a choline donator as well (centrophenoxine is a very potent one)?
Do you supplement with a choline donator as well (centrophenoxine is a very potent one)?
Well the long term effects are what i was worried about. if you havent experienced them then that's good, i haven't talked to many gh users. i found a place to get igf-1 and the cjc, but there aren't a lot of trustworthy places to find out dosages.
as well though i do not use AAS primarily because of my and even more so, my fiance's worries about side effects.
if i were to use any of these compounds without AAS, would it be worth it? if i used clenbuterol or the ECA stack and some glucophage or (possibly)insulin, would it enhance the effects of those compounds?
You say with igf you can say gain 2 pounds and lose 3 pounds of fat in four weeks(as an example). if you add in the ECA stack 2 times a day 4 days a week, and glucophage on weekend carb ups, would i potentiate the body composition change moreso because of the combination of using these other chemichals? or would it be a waste of cash to use igf without steroids? is cjc better if you dont include steroids or also the same?
and lastly can you PLEASE give some dosage info? i havent decided to use these yet, but i am very interested in it.
as well though i do not use AAS primarily because of my and even more so, my fiance's worries about side effects.
if i were to use any of these compounds without AAS, would it be worth it? if i used clenbuterol or the ECA stack and some glucophage or (possibly)insulin, would it enhance the effects of those compounds?
You say with igf you can say gain 2 pounds and lose 3 pounds of fat in four weeks(as an example). if you add in the ECA stack 2 times a day 4 days a week, and glucophage on weekend carb ups, would i potentiate the body composition change moreso because of the combination of using these other chemichals? or would it be a waste of cash to use igf without steroids? is cjc better if you dont include steroids or also the same?
and lastly can you PLEASE give some dosage info? i havent decided to use these yet, but i am very interested in it.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1999
- Messages
- 84,998
I wouldn't say its a waste without. IGF is very anabolic stuff. If you lift 3x a week (heavy compounds) try a starting dose of 30-40ug (split into two doses shot into two bodyparts, like both front delts or both quads) PWO (immediately after working out).
Make sure to take in a carb/protein drink with that or you'll crash HARD because the IGF has insulin like activity.
The CJC I haven't seen a lot on dosing. I think 1-2mg a week though is the standard. I think I'll try starting off doing it 2x a week at 500ug. That way 4mg will last me 4 weeks.
Make sure to take in a carb/protein drink with that or you'll crash HARD because the IGF has insulin like activity.
The CJC I haven't seen a lot on dosing. I think 1-2mg a week though is the standard. I think I'll try starting off doing it 2x a week at 500ug. That way 4mg will last me 4 weeks.