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Ban Unworkable,says party pill boss

bustabraincell

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Ban unworkable, says party pill boss
5:00AM Saturday November 10, 2007
By Patrick Gower

London Underground owner and party pill maker Chris Chase describes calls for the industry to be regulated "noble" but economically unrealistic.

If party pills had to meet the high standards of pharmaceutical medicines, employing scientists and doctors, companies like his could not
afford to put the product out, he said.

"I think there would be much easier businesses to get involved in if I had to go through all that."

Mr Chase's position puts him at odds with Matt Bowden, a party pill supplier and head of the industry's Social Tonics Association,
who has said he wants them regulated like medicines.

New pharmaceuticals for the New Zealand market have to pass through four stages of clinical trials, starting with fatal-dose animal testing.
Getting from the "promising molecule" stage to market can take up to 15 years.

Asked why his marketing material said the next-generation Neuro Blast and Head Candy pills had a herbal formula, when they really had the synthetic compound diphenyl prolinol, Mr Chase said, "I've got no idea".


Mr Chase said the Neuro Blast and Head Candy pills were tested "overseas", but he would not detail where or how.

Last Saturday, the Weekend Herald reported on the experience of a man who tested some unidentified non-BZP pills for London Underground and was admitted to hospital when he became almost unable to breathe and went numb and his blood pressure almost doubled.

Mr Chase dismissed the man as a "hypochondriac", saying he either received a placebo or a caffeine-based pill.

Mr Chase, a stripper before making some of the first party pills and starting London Underground, said the imminent BZP ban and now
the controversy over the "next-generation" pills designed to get round the ban made him want to get of the business. "There's no point."

He said the "entire infrastructure" and the media were against party pills.

"They've got so many agencies to get you if they want to - police, Ministry of Health - then there's food and medicine laws.
You can't fight the Government, mate."

Mr Chase said the Government had been "creative" in catching out Neuro Blast and Head Candy by saying they were analogues of
a class-C5 drug, which he said "is like saying it's of the same illegality as a prescribed cough medicine".

Mr Chase said he had withdrawn the pills containing diphenyl prolinol from sale, but would seek a court ruling on whether they really
were a controlled drug analogue as police suggested.

He would not sell diphenyl prolinol if he won the case, but just wanted to clarify the analogue laws that said a substance had to
be "substantially similar".

"We want to set a precedent. It will either open it up or close it up," he said.

Mr Chase said he did not drink or do drugs and had stopped taking party pills, but believed they would always have a place in society.

Legal cat and mouse ahead over pills

For every banned psychoactive substance, there are dozens more to come.

Dr Keith Bedford, forensics programme manager for the Institute of Environmental Science and Research (ESR), said
"there is really no way of knowing" how many substances party pill makers could use.

Dr Bedford said the diphenyl prolinol controversy was the start of "a game of cat and mouse" between authorities and party pill makers.

The imminent ban on BZP would make the core party pill ingredient illegal, but it will not diminish demand from users.

Dr Bedford said the creation of new substances would thrust the 20-year-old analogue provisions in the Misuse of Drugs Act into a new light.

Dr Bedford said a substance "substantially similar" to the dozens listed could be defined an analogue - although he added the law
has never really been tested.

Although the ESR believed the diphenyl prolinol in London Underground's Neuro Blast and Head Candy pills was an analogue,
a court could find otherwise.

This would put it in a "no-man's-land" where they could be distributed freely until legislation was changed.

Dr Bedford also said there could be substances that could not be captured by analogue laws or defined as harmful enough to be classified as a drug,
which could also go into the grey area.

He said skilled chemists were obviously working to find the compounds.

"Of the millions of substances out there, finding something like diphenyl prolinol, would be a bit like hunting for a needle in the haystack.

"Somebody with a degree of scientific training, with a bit of nous and an understanding of pharmacology or of medicine, would have brought this to attention."

Dr Bedford said the "cat and mouse" would continue as long as there was a loophole in the law that meant party pill makers did not have
to prove their product was safe before it went to market, as medicines and foods have to do.

Dr Bedford said New Zealand was not alone in having difficulty finding the right way to deal with party pills.

"It is a challenge that is not going to go away."

Two views: What's in Euro Blast and Head Candy party pills

London Underground:

A herbal blend called D.O.M.S, named after the four main active herbs.

No materials of a synthetic nature that can be regulated at the drop of a hat.

ESR:

A synthetic substance called diphenyl prolinol, an "analogue" of controlled drug pipradrol.

Other substances that cannot be confirmed.

(source: Weekend Herald-commissioned study)
NZ Herald

[EDIT: Added Link. Lil Angel15]
 
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Hmmmm, has me wondering, is this maybe what the ND s have in them????

Party pills' contents 'virtually untested'
5:00AM Saturday November 10, 2007
By Patrick Gower

Party pills on sale in Auckland are made with an experimental substance virtually unknown to scientists worldwide.

The London Underground "Neuro Blast" pills were withdrawn from sale this week after a Weekend Herald investigation revealed they contained the potentially illegal substance diphenyl prolinol.

But further testing by the Institute of Environmental Science and Research (ESR) has found the "Head Candy" pills from the same range - still available in the city yesterday - also contain the substance.

The pills, marketed as "next generation" and "non-BZP", are designed to side-step the Government's imminent ban on BZP.

The Weekend Herald sent both pills to the ESR for testing this week.

It showed they contained diphenyl prolinol, which the ESR believes is a potential analogue of the Class C5 drug pipradrol, a stimulant with side-effects ranging from insomnia to psychosis and convulsions.

If proven, this would make it illegal to possess, sell or manufacture.

ESR forensic programmes manager Dr Keith Bedford said virtually nothing was known of diphenyl prolinol.

"We have essentially come up with next to nothing on the effects or hazards or risks associated with it.

"There has been virtually no testing that we can identify."

Police were first alerted to the potential illegality of the Neuro Blast pills by the Ministry of Health in late September. They notified London Underground but followed that up only last Friday with a visit by officers.

The Head Candy pills had not been tested before this week, but police yesterday said they would act on the findings.

London Underground owner Chris Chase said he believed all the pills had been withdrawn from sale, and the Head Candy must have been "existing stock" held by a shop.

He said the ESR finding that diphenyl prolinol was a controlled drug analogue was debatable, and he was seeking a court hearing to decide.

The Government aims to ban BZP by Christmas, with a law change making it a class-C controlled drug.

A legal loophole means party-pill makers can sell products without having to prove their safety.

Associate Health Minister Jim Anderton is aware of the loophole, but says it will not be addressed until after a Law Commission review of the 30-year-old Misuse of Drugs Act scheduled for some time next year.

National Party health spokeswoman Jacqui Dean called for the loophole to be closed immediately.

NZ Herald

[EDIT: Added Link. Lil Angel15]
 
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diphenyl prolinol is also in the LU Doves along with something else. These party pills are getting pretty expensive and really, who's to say they're safe, the guy just wants to make money like everyone else, but he could be risking peoples health.
 
I think the diphenyl prolinol is probably in the SC or SC2 and a bit in the ND, but it is not the main ingredient that causes the half hour to an hour MDMA like peak in the ND's
 
bustabraincell - Can you provide links to your media sources please.

TIA :)
 
Thanks Splatt. :)

bustabraincell - Edited posts to include links to sources.
 
ESR believes is a potential analogue of the Class C5 drug pipradrol, a stimulant with side-effects ranging from insomnia to psychosis and convulsions.
Sounds like the SC or SC2s alright! Let the game of cat and mouse continue! :)
 
It's all just getting too much... You'd think (not tryin to start a cost discussion) with the price of producing illicit street drugs, which couldn't be all that high - this sort of thing wouldn't have to happen. But with prices rising (meth) and quality of common illicits dropping it's even more putting peoples health at greater risk. Purely because people are finding new ways to get high.

It's been documented that since the beginning of time man has found ways to get high - whats to stop them in the future. Pharmaceutical manufacture and dispension of these drugs in ways similar to the regulation of alcohol should be put in place. But there are just too many bases to cover.

Our society and governments really need to collectively find a way to develop a drug strategy thats good for both the public non-drug users, drug users, media and parliament. Zero tolerance does not protect anyone. It only singles out those who are being morally blamed due to a primal instinct to get high.

Be it your glass of wine at night or cups of coffee in the morning you're getting high.

too much to rant about.
 
Mr Chase's position puts him at odds with Matt Bowden, a party pill supplier and head of the industry's Social Tonics Association,
who has said he wants them regulated like medicines.

And so they should be. Only then can users be reasonably assured of product safety and QC, and suppliers adequately defend their products.

If this path is to become the only means of legally supplying party pills, then I'd imagine quite a few will be out of business, or at least forced to amalgamate and find suitable investors. The cost of preclinical and clinical trials would be massive, particularly as such drugs would probably also require stage 4 trials where trials remain ongoing after initial approval and public release.

However, the gains are possibly worth it for such investors. It also opens the possibility that some substances classified as analogues, but for which the pharmacology and toxicology profiles are untested or not properly established, may get to be revisited and ultimately approved.

Good on you Matt, it's certainly grabbing the bull by the horns!
 
^^^
Just imagine how the price for these regulated party pills would rise, causing an underground market for unregulated pills that are cheaper and and possibly dangerous.

Unfortunately a lot of people will choose price over safety.
 
I agree that prices would have to rise, but bear in mind that for many of these drugs, the discovery part is avoided, or at least minimised; that being a substantial part of the developmental costs.

Pharmaceutical companies usually only see <1% of their developed drugs get to pass Stage III clinical trials and thus get to market. I would imagine that there are many psychotropic substances that could easily be re-discovered, some of which have have already been profiled for toxicity etc. If so, then it would be expected that in many cases, further development of these compounds would be far less expensive.

Even if drugs were legal, I believe there'll always be an illicit market, but from a recent trip to NZ, I found most people I talked to prefered party pills to illicits, usually for safety reasons and because they knew what they were getting. I met heaps who used BZP, TFMPP etc regualrly, and several users who'd never tried meth or MDMA. I'd imagine many of those would gladly pay extra rather than have to buy pills from dealers, with the dangers and unknowns that go with it.
 
Yeah just look at Prozac and their FDA profile... half of the shit wasn't filled out about human testing when it was released and still isn't. As long as you have money you can pass testing apparently.
 
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