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jasoncrest
04-04-2007, 00:47
There are many ways to take a drug
-intra-rectal
-oral
-intra-nasal
-smoked
-injected/intravenous
-injected/intramuscular
-injected/subcutaneous
-sublingual

-Codeine is most commonly sold as Oral tablets.
-IM and SC ampoules also exist. When you use Codeine IM or SC, you only need 60% of the oral dose you would use to get the same effects.
-Codeine suppositories are also common. People on this board all say that rectal Codeine is stronger.
-There was a Codeine nasal spray from Canada, but it was recently taken off the market.
-Codeine is used intravenously, esp. for children, but it is very dangerous and hazardous
http://www.cja-jca.org/cgi/content/abstract/41/12/1211
http://www.theannals.com/cgi/content/abstract/35/10/1211
-Some people report great effects from smoked Codeine freebase
-There are no data about sublingual Codeine, but the drugs that are effective subslingually are drugs that requires low dosage (less than 10mg), which is not the case of Codeine

-------------

My question is simple:
-intravenous Codeine is unplesant and dangerous
-intramuscular Codeine is highly effective and safe,
so:
-is smoked Codeine freebase like IV Codeine (dangerous) or like IM Codeine (effective, safe)?

-is snorted Codeine like IV Codeine (dangerous) or like IM Codeine (effective, safe)?

paranoid android
04-04-2007, 05:31
I didnt even know that codeine was effective when snorted. Would snorting 30mg codeine tablets be a effective way of administration and would it be stronger then the oral route?

sonic
04-04-2007, 06:29
Good question about snorting codeine! I haven't read proof either way. I originally believed it was dangerous, but I've looked for sources to confirm it, and I haven't found much.

Mr Blonde
04-04-2007, 06:39
Snorting wouldn't work, because codeine is a pro-drug. That means it has to be metabolized by your body before it takes effect. Codeine itself has a very weak affinity for the opiod receptors in your brain. When you take it orally your liver converts roughly 10% of the dose to morphine, though this varies between many people and roughly 8-10% of the caucasian population does not have the enzyme, CYP2D6, necessary for this conversion. Morphine is what gives us the euphoric effects of codeine.

If you snort it, it won't have any effect because it won't become morphine. IM can be used, but I'm not sure how that works. IV is dangerous, yes, because of the massive anti-histamine response it causes and the danger of a pulmonary edema. I haven't heard of smoking it freebase before though.

jasoncrest
04-04-2007, 23:36
Snorting wouldn't work, because codeine is a pro-drug. That means it has to be metabolized by your body before it takes effect. Codeine itself has a very weak affinity for the opiod receptors in your brain. When you take it orally your liver converts roughly 10% of the dose to morphine, though this varies between many people and roughly 8-10% of the caucasian population does not have the enzyme, CYP2D6, necessary for this conversion. Morphine is what gives us the euphoric effects of codeine.

If you snort it, it won't have any effect because it won't become morphine. IM can be used, but I'm not sure how that works. IV is dangerous, yes, because of the massive anti-histamine response it causes and the danger of a pulmonary edema. I haven't heard of smoking it freebase before though.

Why wouldn't it be metabolized to Morphine if you snort it, while it is metabolized to Morphine when you inject it IM or SC???

Codeine doesn't need to be taken orally to become converted to Morphine by CYP2D6...
I think that if you eat it, if you shoot it, or if you snort it, it's still gonna go to the liver and get concverted to Morphine....

-

Again, does anyone know something about that:?
-Is snorting Codeine dangerous & unpleasant like IV Codeine or safe & effective like IM Codeine??
-Is smoking Codeine freebase dangerous & unpleasant like IV Codeine or safe & effective like IM Codeine??

visualvalium
04-04-2007, 23:52
ive snorted codeine sulphate 60mgs and it caused an allergic reaction, but so did large amounts orally. phosphate maybe different. ive also muscled codeine and found it only slightly better than plugging and a little better than eating. ive also IVed 30mgs codeine sulphate and had an extreme allergic reaction and couldve died if not for benadryl taken immediately. never shoot codeine.

Dancan
02-04-2008, 17:18
I would like to bring this post back up because it's inconclusive. Now I hate the taste of codeine after a CWE so much, that I can physically make myself sick by just thinking about it if I feel nausous. I used to be sick on the drug, at least partly because of the drinking process.

I won't use any injection methods. Does snorting entail a CWE, then leaving the liquid to evapourate, leaving just the solid to snort? I read this on here somewhere a while ago.

It's either that or a codeine enema of the CWE liquid I guess, which sounds like it would be more powerful.

drunken_etard
02-04-2008, 17:30
I use to get 100mg codeine pills. And I knew some people who snorted them....
They usually said it burned and itched inside the nose. But that can really happen snorting anything.

Dancan
02-04-2008, 18:12
it's usually just a question of the time you spend crushing them, and of course, how often you do it. I use a pestel and mortar, but I don't insufflate drugs often.

Jamshyd
02-04-2008, 18:37
Regarding metabolism: Nasal, Rectal, and Injection do not completely block the metabolism of a drug. They only blockfirst pass metabolism, which happens as the drug is in the GI tract and is absorbed through veins that all lead to the liver. The drugs will then go to the brain and other organs and come back to the liver over and overt again untill they are metablolized. Blocking first-pass metabolism simply gives the brain more "bulk" drug and slows down its metabolism since it doesn't take the highway to the liver.

Secondly, Codeine is not purely a pro-drug - it has an affinity for mu receptors on its own.

In my experience, rectal administration of of codeine is about twice better than oral.

bupropion
02-04-2008, 19:55
^Have recent studies caused scientists to revise their opinion on it? I thought it was considered mostly inactive.

Wikipedia says it gets metabolized to codeine-6-glucuronide, morphine, (presumably M6G as well), hydromorphone, and (HM6G??) giving up to 6 active drugs if codeine is active as well. This along with the fact that I am probably a good metabolizer (30mg feels 50% stronger than 5mg oxycodone to me) probably explains why I like it so much.

Do any other opiates have so many active metabolites?

Mr Blonde
02-04-2008, 23:56
Secondly, Codeine is not purely a pro-drug - it has an affinity for mu receptors on its own.

It does bind to Mu-receptors, in fact if I remember right it's a full agonist. However, it barely causes any analgesia and will just give you a nasty histamine reaction. Hence why it's a pro-drug; the morphine is much better.



In my experience, rectal administration of of codeine is about twice better than oral.

I'm interested in trying this. Did you just do a CWE? How much water did you use? Any recommendations for a codeine anal virgin? ;)

Nickatina
03-04-2008, 00:19
Regarding metabolism: Nasal, Rectal, and Injection do not completely block the metabolism of a drug. They only blockfirst pass metabolism, which happens as the drug is in the GI tract and is absorbed through veins that all lead to the liver. The drugs will then go to the brain and other organs and come back to the liver over and overt again untill they are metablolized. Blocking first-pass metabolism simply gives the brain more "bulk" drug and slows down its metabolism since it doesn't take the highway to the liver.

Secondly, Codeine is not purely a pro-drug - it has an affinity for mu receptors on its own.

In my experience, rectal administration of of codeine is about twice better than oral.

Really, I always thought Codeine just metabolized into morphine. So in theory, you would certainly get better effects from oral or rectal administration compared to IM, right? However JC's post stated the ampules to be 40% more efficient ... I'm baffled.

brutus
03-04-2008, 00:20
Damn, I thought this was a recent thread by JC. Haven't seen him around in a while, hope everything is well.

bupropion
03-04-2008, 13:28
^According to Wikipedia 1% gets converted to hydromorphone, 70% to codeine-6-glucuronide, and 5-10% to morphine.

Does anyone know what the potency of C6G is? Must be fairly low.

And does hydromorphone have an active glucuronide?

pkt
03-04-2008, 15:26
roughly 8-10% of the caucasian population does not have the enzyme, CYP2D6, necessary for this conversion

This is very interesting, do you have any documentation of this??

MethaContin
03-04-2008, 15:37
I didnt think you could IV Codeine?????????

Mr Blonde
03-04-2008, 16:15
I didnt think you could IV Codeine?????????

You can't, well...you can, but it's very likely the histamine response will kill you =D


This is very interesting, do you have any documentation of this??

Read this excerpt from Experimental Therapeutics (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=fjYRQvzQ27oC&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=10+of+caucasian+population+cyp2d6&source=web&ots=ntZLtoa4tI&sig=QsOto25To2p0XdKPkvTCiB4iVAY&hl=en), it's not that they are 'missing' the enzyme, they have a mutant variant of the enzyme that doesn't process codeine into morphine efficiently. Well known on BL, I thought.

MethaContin
03-04-2008, 16:22
You can't, well...you can, but it's very likely the histamine response will kill you =D



Read this excerpt from Experimental Therapeutics (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=fjYRQvzQ27oC&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=10+of+caucasian+population+cyp2d6&source=web&ots=ntZLtoa4tI&sig=QsOto25To2p0XdKPkvTCiB4iVAY&hl=en), it's not that they are 'missing' the enzyme, they have a mutant variant of the enzyme that doesn't process codeine into morphine efficiently. Well known on BL, I thought.


Yeah I thought It fills your lungs up with fluid and you die if its injected............................ I'd stay FAR away.

drunken_etard
03-04-2008, 17:06
You can't, well...you can, but it's very likely the histamine response will kill you =D



Read this excerpt from Experimental Therapeutics (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=fjYRQvzQ27oC&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=10+of+caucasian+population+cyp2d6&source=web&ots=ntZLtoa4tI&sig=QsOto25To2p0XdKPkvTCiB4iVAY&hl=en), it's not that they are 'missing' the enzyme, they have a mutant variant of the enzyme that doesn't process codeine into morphine efficiently. Well known on BL, I thought.


If u look at things that way, then you can IV anything that can fit in the needle

Mr Blonde
04-04-2008, 03:12
If u look at things that way, then you can IV anything that can fit in the needle

Exactly. If I felt like it right now I could draw back some of my hot cuppa' joe into a syringe and shoot it up right now. I wouldn't ever do that, but I could.

Just that with codeine, it become deadly if you IV it. As MethaContin said, your lungs will fill up with fluid due to the histamine response, it's called a pulmonary edema. It would be as if you were drowning! 8o

MethaContin
04-04-2008, 03:24
Exactly. If I felt like it right now I could draw back some of my hot cuppa' joe into a syringe and shoot it up right now. I wouldn't ever do that, but I could.

Just that with codeine, it become deadly if you IV it. As MethaContin said, your lungs will fill up with fluid due to the histamine response, it's called a pulmonary edema. It would be as if you were drowning! 8o


Pulmonary Edema - THAT'S EXACTLY THE WORDS I WAS LOOKING FOR BUT COULDNT FIND THEM. You got it man.................. :)

AND CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Post 999 ALMOST 1000!!!!!!!!!!! Woop Woop :)

Dancan
05-04-2008, 00:11
So then, is a CWE extraction of codeine all that's required before pouring it up your arse? It sounds a bit uncomfortable, but i'll try it if it's widely onsidered more potent than oral administration.

rave23
05-04-2008, 11:54
In my experience, rectal administration of of codeine is about twice better than oral.

i do agree.
Plugged codeine comes on faster and seems to be somewhat stronger. Plugging is the way to go with codeine imho

Boiling in Acid
05-04-2008, 13:00
i snorted 100mg, on top of 700mg oral dose in a form of small 20mg codeine phosphate tablets. i think it slightly increased the high, & haven't done any bad reactions.
i know ppl who claimed to IV those same pills, & said 5 of those IV cured heroin w\d & they not seemed to have serious lung problems or something, but that is relative & can vary from person to person.
i think if you snort codeine, it still probably gets to your liver first, then to the brain. but im curious about smoking it... i know that smoking heroin said to get the heroin quicker to the brain then IV administration, because it avoids the liver. so if so, then codeine avoids the liver too when smoked. though i'm not sure about the accuracy of that.

rave23
05-04-2008, 19:55
the thing is, codeine by itself is a really weak agonist. It needs to be metabolized by liver first, into more active metabolites with a higher affinity to bind.

FlamingSeveredHead
05-04-2008, 19:57
Once in a while I get pure codeine scripted to me by my primary care physician. I find them too weak to be of any value to me.

rave23
05-04-2008, 20:16
how much do you take usually, and what other opiates do you take and what's your tollerance like?

360mgs rectal are Equal to 15 - 20mgs morphine skin popped imho. The only thing that ruins it is the caffeine.

Jamshyd
06-04-2008, 18:20
I'm interested in trying this. Did you just do a CWE? How much water did you use? Any recommendations for a codeine anal virgin? ;)
I use a minimal ammount of water - just enough to cover the crushed pills. Then stir the fuck out of it. This does two things: It minimizes the ammount you need to put in your rectum (which makes for faster absorption too), and it also minimizes the ammount of caffeine that dissolves with it (remember, caffeine is only partially soluble in cold water).

If you're that paranoid about losing a few mgs of codeine, you can always take the filtered gunk and repeat - but you'll be getting more caffeine (and some aspirin/APAP that way).

Jamshyd
06-04-2008, 18:25
Really, I always thought Codeine just metabolized into morphine. So in theory, you would certainly get better effects from oral or rectal administration compared to IM, right? However JC's post stated the ampules to be 40% more efficient ... I'm baffled.
It WILL get metabolized. Just not before it enters circulation, but after. Remember, oral administration will take the (already battered by gut enzymes) codeine directly in the liver, and so you lose all of it. If you take it rectally, it will go throughout your system before reaching the liver.

Remember, drugs keep circulating in the blood, its not like a dose makes stops at certain stations in your body befor moving on to the next.