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Obyron
12-02-2007, 22:40
My source for MDPV provides the powder with a note that it's up to 2% pyrrolidine by weight. The MSDS for this substance doesn't exactly give me warm and fuzzy feelings about putting it up my nose, even if it's only 2% of 6mg.

Is there an effective method to wash MDPV to remove the pyrrolidine without harming the substance itself? I'd obviously like to use easily obtainable "kitchen chemistry chemicals" (muriatic acid, NaOH, naphtha, &c).

Thanks in advance.

egor
12-02-2007, 23:34
I am sure there are alot of others wondering about that.
I believe pyrrolidine is very toxic to lung tissue when smoked also.

Refluxer
13-02-2007, 00:06
Recrystallising would probably be a good shot.

Obyron
13-02-2007, 00:21
My only problem is that I have no way to analyze the compound after whatever method I use to ensure that it's not adulterated, so I was wondering if anyone's had any luck cleaning their sample in the past.

There've been some questions about freebasing MDPV and smoking it, and I was interested in being a guinea pig for that, but the prryolidine concerns me. Would it precipitate out as an impurity in the basing solution, or would it be carried right along?

I just thought there might be someone who's had some luck in this vein, and my own experience in chemistry is pretty limited. If the question is too n00bish, feel free to move it to BDD, but since the level of chemistry there is of the "how do I boil water?" variety, I thought this a safer bet. ;)

fastandbulbous
13-02-2007, 06:50
Using a solvent like methylene chloride (dichloromethane) or toluene might dissolve the pyrrolidine while not touching the MDPV as long as pyrrolidine doesn't form a stable hydrochloride salt (which I dont think it does).

Other than that, recrystallization is your only option and can be long drawn out and somewhat wasteful. As long as you don't smoke it, iy'll not be toxic at those levels

hugo24
13-02-2007, 15:20
Why worry on the Pyrrolidine?The other 98% are MDPV which are probably as caustic and toxic.

The old drug myth that only by-products are unhealthy.

Pyrrolidine btw forms a hydrochloride as well,that makes it a bit difficult to separate it from other hydrochlorides.

fastandbulbous
13-02-2007, 17:18
Oh bum! It's just recrystallization then - I was sort of hoping pyrrolidine hydrochloride 'oiled out' ie was unstable & returned to freebase (like I read somestimes happens with MDA hydrochloride)

General alcazar
14-02-2007, 10:01
Are there any health issues of ingesting .1-2mg of Pyrrolidine ?
What about insufflation - is it contact with lung tissue that causes the damage, or avoiding first pass metabolism through the liver ?

kidamnesiac
14-02-2007, 10:06
from wikipedia:
Pyrrolidine is found naturally in the leaves of tobacco and carrot. The pyrrolidine ring structure is present in numerous natural alkaloids such as nicotine and hygrine. It is found in many pharmaceutical drugs such as procyclidine and bepridil. It also forms the basis for the racetam compounds (e.g. piracetam, aniracetam).

It is also found structurally in proline. It is probably harmless in small amts. Pyrrole on the other hand, not so pleasant. And Pyridine makes ya shoot blanks, which may be a good thing for you MDPV fiends :)

Obyron
14-02-2007, 17:27
There's been some curiosity about basing MDPV and seeing how it responds to being smoked (which, with current knowledge, I would now never want to try), but pyrrolidine is reportedly pretty nasty on the lungs.

The MSDS that I found contains the following:



Chronic Effects on Humans: The substance is toxic to kidneys, the nervous system, liver.
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion.
Hazardous in case of skin contact (permeator), of inhalation.
Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (corrosive).

kidamnesiac
14-02-2007, 18:36
It would be prudent to remember that the final stages of the synthesis would involve lots of acid/base washes to remove impurities like pyrollidine. The fact that 2% still remains means it is:
a. of very similar solubility in water and solvents to MDPV during a/b workup and perhaps even chromatography and recrystallization
b. hard to remove for even skilled organic chemists.
if you're staring at your pile of powder with a bottle of red devil and some mason jars, i wouldnt try it personally. you will probably only introduce more contaminates via acid/base hydrolysis.
again, chronic exposure is one thing, but microgram quantities? you would be amazed at what MSDSs say if you've never encountered one. I wouldn't smoke it or IV it, but eating and perhaps snorting it should be kosher.
this safety lesson brought to by kidamnesiac. i'll be here all week, be sure to tip your waitress:)

hugo24
14-02-2007, 18:38
An MSDS is usually the least informative thing on a substance.We in the lab never read it, despite it is mandatory to accompany every chemical.Its just Another bureaucrats tool,full of useless blah-blah,with nothing specifically useful.The NWO guys created it for CYA (cover your own ass) reasons.End of rant.

mind
14-02-2007, 19:44
please correct me if i'm wrong but if you smoke tobacco you also inhale pyrrolidine, right?

Obyron
14-02-2007, 20:58
Thanks to kidamnesiac and hugo for the info about MSDSs.

And yes, pyrrolidine is present in tobacco smoke, but I'd suppose it's a matter of degree. :)

After kidamnesiac's excellent points, I'm pretty well convinced it's not worth the time to bother trying to clean it further. I suppose it just rules out freebasing, but that's probably not something anyone needs to be doing a lot of with MDPV anyway. It's plenty potent and quick intranasally, and it's not expensive enough to worry that much about saving a couple of milligrams per dose.

fastandbulbous
14-02-2007, 22:01
Secondaty amines in general aren't good for your lungs as they're the most basic of the amines and the pH they create isn;t healthy for your alveolar sacs (I think it buggers up the surfactant that stops your lungs sticking together_. Pyrolysis products aren;t likely to be nice either (then no pyrolysis products are!).

Basically don't smokr the MDPV if you like your lungs healthy

Jazar
21-01-2010, 09:55
I recently bought some certified >99.5% purity mdpv. Proximity to it caused my scales to spin as if there were some radioactivity. That anomalie aside, I proceeded to smoke it hoping it would be the best batch ever. No such luck, in fact if there was any effect at all I didn't notice it. But this stuff sits like mdpv, it rubs straight into skin like mdpv, it even tastes like mdpv there's just something crucial missing. I theorise that the thing that makes it so strong (one line the length of a finger nail) is actually the pyrrilidine.
Usually if I don't make an ash bed in the bowl of my bong before the mdpv goes on, the gauze will simply dissolve. With the pure mdpv that has not happened. Pyrrilidine is also present in procyclidine which has effects just like those of mdpv. I am suggesting that pyrrilidine is a powerful intoxicant and mdpv just happens to compose it so as not to become too concentrated as it is afterall an immensely dangerous substance in any real quantity. Microscopic amounts of it are fun to take. Pyrrildine could be responsible for mdpv's addictive nature. I think that if you want to get high you're best bet is to leave the pyrrolidine in. Another reason to believe the theory is that there is something in the smell of tobacco smoke that smells just like something in burning mdpv. It smells addictive. Must be the pyrrolidine.

dread
21-01-2010, 09:58
Could have to do with isomers. Maybe you've had racemic MDPV before and now you have dextro...

fastandbulbous
21-01-2010, 12:10
An MSDS is usually the least informative thing on a substance.We in the lab never read it, despite it is mandatory to accompany every chemical.Its just Another bureaucrats tool,full of useless blah-blah,with nothing specifically useful.The NWO guys created it for CYA (cover your own ass) reasons.End of rant.


Yep try looking it up in the Merck index or Martindales Extra pharmacopea for any detailed info



Maybe you've had racemic MDPV before and now you have dextro...

I somehow doubt it as the starting product for synthesis is 3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-1-pentanone, which doesn't have a chiral centre, the chirality is introduced in the synthesis anf you can bet those whacky Chinese chemists aren't going to bother sepsrating individual isomers if they still leave pyrrolidine in

kken
21-01-2010, 14:27
so any idea how much pyrrolidine is in current mdpv patches? from what ive read this was only an issue when it was "new" in the market

MurphyClox
21-01-2010, 15:57
It would be prudent to remember that the final stages of the synthesis would involve lots of acid/base washes to remove impurities like pyrollidine. The fact that 2% still remains means it is:
...
b. hard to remove for even skilled organic chemists.
Not correct.

kken
21-01-2010, 18:34
if you take a look at the date which he posted. Back then it wasn't known why there was pyrrolidine so thats a pretty valid guess with the information at hand at the time

fastandbulbous
26-01-2010, 08:29
Not correct.



Ah but who's saying that the Chinese chemist producing it are skilled? It doesn't require a genius organic chemist to synth MDPV, mephedrone etc

MurphyClox
26-01-2010, 11:18
Ah but who's saying that the Chinese chemist producing it are skilled? It doesn't require a genius organic chemist to synth MDPV, mephedrone etc

Yeah, agreed.
But my conclusion from this fact is that in the near future the last desirable psychoactives left for experimentation will be the ones which are difficult to synthesize (...and thus remain secret from public access). Sad, really sad that this devcelopment is so predictable to such an extend.

- Murphy

ebola?
27-01-2010, 03:55
quantitatively, how would we expect pyrrolidine ingested via mdpv to compare to burnt plant matter?

ebola