disappointed in 5-HTP... anything I can do to INCREASE my roll?

hello!
I've been away from all the info on this forum for such a long time, and I guess opinions have changed a lot since the last time I was active here.... back then, everyone seemed to be raving about how great 5-htp was; not ONLY as a post-load, but as a pre-load to help increase your high.

Which is whY i just went out and bought two bottles yesterday... then I decided to come here and check out how much to use. All of a sudden, everyone is saying NOT to pre-load with 5-htp because it can actually decrease the effects of your roll. damn!

well... I suppose I'm glad I have something to help with the comedown, but really the main thing I was looking for was something that would enhance the actual effects of the pill. Recently I've just been getting shitty ones, and I don't even roll that often anymore. I'd really been counting on 5-htp as my magical saviour, lol...

soOo.. are there any other supplements out there that are known to actually enhance the effects of ecstasy? (not supplements that help with jaw clenching, muscle pains, comedown blues etc..... I only want to hear about things that can help get me high again!!!)

thanks a million in advance!
xxx

Just get a different source for pingers.

The only thing that will help your roll be stronger would put you at risk of serotonin syndrome or possibly death. So in other words, there no safe way to increase your roll. Try only having them every couple or few months, and eat 5-HTP on and off in between experiences, but not about 5 days before you roll.

Yes, please don't advocate dangerous methods for increasing the potency of MDMA, there are certain combinations that people might consider advising but that should be avoided and can be potentially lethal.

Have you actually tried 5HTP yourself instead of just going on what others have told you? Try 200 mgs in the evening before bed on the 4th and 3rd day before you roll.

I find that works but the MDMA experience is very uhh... heavy, another word for that might be monged

Consider taking a break.

Try acupuncture on the day you roll. About a month back i did (coincidentally) and it was the best roll of my life, and ive been using e (on and off) for years and usually have a high tolerance.

Welcome Back...I remember you...

I have been using 5-HTP for years now. I have 100mg at Breakfast and 100mg at dinner...every day.

Lovely stuff.

Hoever due to my constant administration of 5-HTP I can say if it has or has not helped my "rolling"

I remember people saying that Piracetam and other nootropics actually dampen a roll, but they make sure your oxygen to brain intake during the experience is normal/good and you don't get memory blanks.

But Piracetam does seem to enhance psychedelics, sometimes greatly so the experience is not enjoyable. I don't think we know too much about mixing nootropics with psychoactive drugs.

Warning Regarding 5HTP

Just a word of warning regarding 5HTP. I've been saying for years that this has potential to be very dangerous if any 5HTP is decarboxylated into serotonin in the liver, gut or in the blood, which I've always believed does occur as the enzyme required is found in these areas. Serotonin produced in this manner can and probably will damage the heart, or more specifically the mitral valve and chordae tendineae of the left ventricle.

This topic was recently raised in Advanced DD.

This pic is taken from a link in that thread and shows the actions of other 5HT2b receptor agonists and how they cause this affect.



Molecular Mechanisms by Which 5-HT2B Agonists Induce Valvular Heart Disease

Another story concerns a group of South Sea Islanders who, because of a cyclone which wiped out their crops,ate unripe bananas which contain serotonin. Many of them (mostly males from memory) developed and died from this condition.

From Advanced Drug Discussion, where the link to the fulla rticle above can also be found.

5-HTP and Cardiac Fibrosis?

My recommendation - which it always has been - is to instead use L-tryptophan. I have friends who say it increases the intensity of the roll but others say it does little. I believe it definitely helps with comedown though. L-tryp can (or could recently ) be obtained in Aus. However, in accordance with forum regulations, because the site also sells other products, I can't post a link here. PM any of us mods if you wish to learn more.

Makes me think twice about using 5htp now.

I have been using it for about 18 months, between 2 and 5 days after each ~monthly (less often recently) MDXX session.

Silly me was 'aware' of these concerns on the net (with heart problems related to 5ht outside the brain) from early net trawling on how safe 5htp was prior to my initial consumption.

I dismissed the advice early on, but now I am not so sure. I'll probably use my natural paranoia as an incentive to limit my post-MDxx intake of it regardless now.

Shame, because we really found that it helped us a lot. I'll lurk with interest as to what comes of this topic.

The place I buy 5-HTP from recomends that I take a Vitamin B pill with it as Vitamin B apperently assists in the conversion to Serotonin. If this is true then would the conversion more likely happen outside the brain and thus be increaseing the risk of damage caused by free Serotonin?

Put simply 5-HTP and Vitamin B Good/Bad?

static_mind said:

The place I buy 5-HTP from recomends that I take a Vitamin B pill with it as Vitamin B apperently assists in the conversion to Serotonin. If this is true then would the conversion more likely happen outside the brain and thus be increaseing the risk of damage caused by free Serotonin?

Put simply 5-HTP and Vitamin B Good/Bad?

Click to expand...

I d like to know that myself I was told that when I got my last lot from the local health store? I was also asked if I wanted to participate in an 'educational' survey to why I choose to take 5-HTP (hmmm).

thanks p_d , now I want to go to the supermarket so i can make a waldolf salad
v

static_mind said:

The place I buy 5-HTP from recomends that I take a Vitamin B pill with it as Vitamin B apperently assists in the conversion to Serotonin. If this is true then would the conversion more likely happen outside the brain and thus be increaseing the risk of damage caused by free Serotonin?

Put simply 5-HTP and Vitamin B Good/Bad?

Click to expand...

I think you answered your own question. There is some question as to how much this occurs. I would definitely avoid taking the B6 supplement although I wouldn't think it will totally prevent decarboxylation, particularly if large amounts are taken. Remember, most Aussies love their Vegemite and vegemite has the highest level of B6 of any food source (@ 3mg/100g) which is typically 4 x the level of the next nearest food source; walnuts.

Another reason for taking tryptophan as an alternative. Not bypassing the rate limiting step in the conversion of L-tryp to 5-HTP will present a far less likely chance that decarboxylation will occur in the liver and gut.

Splatt said:

I remember people saying that Piracetam and other nootropics actually dampen a roll, but they make sure your oxygen to brain intake during the experience is normal/good and you don't get memory blanks.

But Piracetam does seem to enhance psychedelics, sometimes greatly so the experience is not enjoyable. I don't think we know too much about mixing nootropics with psychoactive drugs.

Click to expand...

Piracetam is interesting. I was going to suggest it as something you could try with a word of caution because I have actually found it to greatly increase the effects of MDXX. Same for other stimulants and psychedelics.

Interesting that Splatt says that other people have found it to dampen MDXX - can't say I'm surprised. Picacetam's effects seem to vary greatly from person to person. Some people get a lot out of it, while others find it to do nothing. Like Splatt says, we don't know a lot about mixing nootropics and psychoactive drugs.

What kind of Aussie uses the word roll?


Get off chops, ya munter! :D


Has anyone mentioned route of administration? Stick the pill in your bum dude, that'll fix ya

^Yep. *EDIT, Please remember this is a Harm minimization site, comments like these are not welcomed as there may be people who read this and then take your silly advice. lil angel15*

grapefruit juice? also as someone else said, change your administration route. the anal bioavailability of pills is much hiher then oral hence more mdma will get into your bloodstream. for both these topics please use the BL searchengine to educate yourself

another option is just take more pills, and eat healthier the next day to make up for it

or most likely; find a better source. australia has the highest rate of ecstasy use per capita of ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD including holland amsterdam etc , and it shows. every over the age of 14 or 15 i know has had contact with pills. it cant be that hard to find a new source.

So you've decided to give yourself serotonin syndrome, good luck with that. Seriously just give your brain a rest, do some regular exercise and keep healthy and above all eat well.


BTW I think 5-HTP should only be used sparingly, one 200mg dose before you go to bed and one 200/100mg dose the next night. I have seen people give themselves serotonin syndrome with serious long term side effects and other nasty psychological effects from taking it on a regular basis. It can help you recover, but that DOES NOT mean you go hard the next night or take it in turn with MDXX type substances to get higher.

scumlord said:

I have seen people give themselves serotonin syndrome with serious long term side effects and other nasty psychological effects from taking it on a regular basis. It can help you recover, but that DOES NOT mean you go hard the next night or take it in turn with MDXX type substances to get higher.

Click to expand...

Have you seriously seen people develop serotonin syndrome from 5htp use? They surely must have been taking massive amounts

Taking 5-HTP while on an anti-depressant would do that to you. I find it very hard to believe that you could get serotonin syndrome from taking 5-HTP alone.

On an MAOI I guess it would be possible - after all you do have to stick to a certain diet while on them. But I doubt you would develop a full on serotonin syndrome, unless you took a big dose, or had been doing this over a long period of time?

I do know of people that have combined MDXX and an MAOI. Although they said the experience was pushing the boat way way way way out there. By reports non stop peaking for 8+ hours. While they ended up OK DO NOT DO THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! They themselves admit it was reckless in the extreme and felt they came very close to causing themselves permanent harm. I've read a story on this board about someone that did the same thing, and they think they have never been the same since.

My point is from what I know of serotonin syndrome it's a pretty sudden and dramatic event, that is extremely life threatening without medical intervention.