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cognosis
26-01-2007, 01:29
Okay, so I'm surfing the web trying to find an answer to something a friend was talking to me about today about meth and MDMA between chemically related.

found some meth addiction website (http://www.methamphetamineaddiction.com/other_ecstasy.html), that says,
MDMA, called "Adam," "ecstasy," or "XTC" on the street, is a synthetic, psychoactive (mind-altering) drug with hallucinogenic and amphetamine-like properties. Its chemical structure (3-4 methylenedioxymeth- amphetamine) is similar to two other synthetic drugs, MDA and methamphetamine, which are known to cause brain damage.


First off, I hope everybody is familiar with the whole mix up (http://www.maps.org/mdma/rd011604.html) in the MDMA study that showed that it caused brain damage--it was actually Meth that the study was done with. For some reason though, DEA/DARE propaganda hasn't revised and incorporate this as a part of their public information programs. I know, I know, I'm a little off topic but I'm getting there. ;-O

The question is this: How chemically similar are MethAmphetamine and MDMA? I know not enough to be considered an analog, right? They both have the ampethamine part in the name but I was under the impression the MDMA is a phenethylamine. What then is the chemical backbone for meth and what is the relationship between these two alluring compounds?8(

ScattyD
26-01-2007, 01:40
good question... I look forward to seeing the answer :)

drklnk
26-01-2007, 01:43
Phenethylamine
http://www.chemicalland21.com/lifescience/phar/64-04-0.gif

http://www2.wind.ne.jp/Akagi-kohgen-HP/Amph_Meth_structure.jpg

MDMA
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/images/pihkal109.gif

drklnk
26-01-2007, 01:50
and of course, wikipedia is also your friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Technically, meth and mdma are both substituted phenethylamines.

sodiumglow
26-01-2007, 02:11
Your last pic is of MDA, not MDMA

egor
26-01-2007, 02:15
Look at them in 3d chem compare on erowid for the easiest explanation.

drklnk
26-01-2007, 02:18
Your last pic is of MDA, not MDMA

Stupid google. Fixed. Oh what a difference a methyl group makes.

theWorldWithin
26-01-2007, 02:54
I would like to point out that MDMA has stimulant properties but pharmacologically is more of a psychedelic. This is also apperent in the reletive potency of the R and S isomers. Perhaps the man himself can shed some light: http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/isomers.htm

drklnk
26-01-2007, 03:08
You can also hear what the master himself has to say on the matter:
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/mdmavmeth.htm

5-HT2
26-01-2007, 04:28
I think MDMA is neither a true stimulant nor a true psychedelic, though it has qualities of each…it's in a class all its own, that's why people coined the term "entactogen" to describe MDMA and its relatives.

cognosis
26-01-2007, 05:16
I would like to point out that MDMA has stimulant properties but pharmacologically is more of a psychedelic. This is also apperent in the reletive potency of the R and S isomers. Perhaps the man himself can shed some light: http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/isomers.htm
ummm..by psychedelic do you mean empathogen/entactogen?

drklnk
26-01-2007, 05:59
ummm..by psychedelic do you mean empathogen/entactogen?

It's the same thing, just newer terminology.

dunwich
26-01-2007, 06:29
Its not the same thing. Enactogen is a term pretty much created to describe MDMA. It means a drug that makes one feel empathy/love/whatever or just generally that the drug is similar in effect to MDMA.

drklnk
26-01-2007, 08:52
It's very close to being the same thing. Again I'll reference Sasha:
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/future.htm

fatallyflawed
26-01-2007, 11:29
i would have to beleive they r different ne ways cause meth DESTROYS bodies and lives ALOT easier than X will ever do!

i think people only try to compare cause both give u energy..HOWEVER so does caffine! Give an espresso shot to a person whos body is caffine and sugar free?!? Yeah little rockets they will become!

Just cause they are amphetamines in my eye doesnt make them similar, but yeah scintists would say they r!

cognosis
26-01-2007, 21:08
It's the same thing, just newer terminology.

no no no. Psychedelic means mind manifesting. Now if you want to say MDMA is psychoactive then yes I agree with you. Empathogen, means a substance creates a sense of empathy. Entactogen is for those who are paranoid that empathogen would be reminiscient of pathos or pathology and indirectly imply the substance is bad for you. Entactogen refers to the tactile, and establishes a relationship of the effect of the compound and it's effect on the sense of touch.

~shabam.

cognosis
26-01-2007, 21:10
It's the same thing, just newer terminology.


...and just to be clear, Meth isn't considered a psychedelic, or an empathogen/entactogen, but a sympathomimetic.