Cannabis + kratom - Very experienced - Odd Occurrence

This will be a pretty brief report, but it was abnormal and interesting so I will relay my experience nonetheless.

For the sake of completion, I should mention that two days ago, I ingested a combination of 2C-T-21 and 2C-C. I don't feel this had anything to do with my experience, but I thought I'd mention it.

At 7:00pm, I ingested 9 grams of kratom after not having had it for longer than usual. I took it not out of a mental craving but because minor withdrawal was starting to creep in and I'm currently weaning myself off, primarily to save money so I'm not poor for the rest of my life. Anyway, the kratom hit me much harder and with greater euphoria than it has in a long time, another perk to cutting way back. I settled down with my girlfriend to watch some TV. As it happens, I was watching a Roseanne marathon (again).

At about 9:00, or T+2:00, I decided to smoke some cannabis. I had smoked it once earlier that day, around 6:30, but it had mostly worn off. The kratom was still in effect but no longer at peak. I took three vaporizer pulls as well as shared a bowl with my girlfriend, in rapid succession. Both devices had a mixture of very high quality White Widow and L.S.D. (a very good newish strain by BOG seeds) in them, and the bowl additionally had a thin layer of pure kief on top. I hit the vaporizer first, and after finishing the bowl next, I laid back and continued to watch TV.

I noticed that I was becoming extremely high, moreso than usual. I find that kratom adds a very good element to marijuana. The combination of the two can be pretty psychedelic. Kratom primarily enhances the physical buzz of cannabis by making you more able to feel your field of energy. Cannabis on its own causes this effect moreso than almost anything else I've used, which is in my opinion why it is so synergistic with psychedelics and almost any other drug. It is a very physically psychedelic substance, even after you become used to it and the mental elements become routine. With kratom added, it feels as if waves of electrical energy are running up and down my body and leaping outward, forming loops which reconnect with my body elsewhere. The patterns of energy roughly form the visual of a group of closed rings of energy that sprout from my body randomly and reconnect somewhere else, surrounding me in a sort of cocoon.

Anyway, I felt so good and psychedelic that I closed my eyes for a bit, as doing so, I've found, can dramatically increase the physical and mental aspects of any high by dissociating you from your surroundings and focusing you entirely upon the aspects of your high. This time was more dramatic than it has ever been without being in a partial sleep state.

I quickly dissociated from where I really was. The body high grew and grew exponentially until it felt nearly salvia-like, with points of great gravity or pressure running around my body, especially my legs - down, down, down, light speed, even faster. I gradually lost awareness of the sounds of the TV and began to realize I was somewhere else. At this point I was unaware I had taken any drugs, but wide awake. I was still aware I was laying down. I began to feel a great pressure on my chest, and I began struggling to breathe. It felt like my throat was extremely narrow and I had to force air to pass through it into my lungs. I was slightly alarmed but I was able to continue breathing so I rode it out. And besides, this was my reality at the moment and I felt I had no choice.

I knew I was me, but I didn't know who "me" was other than this nexus of perceptions I was experiencing. I became aware of some sort of entity that was communicating with me. I can't remember what was being communicated anymore, although I was very aware at the time and right after I regained awareness of my surroundings. It felt very important though. We were in disagreement but the entity was clearly a figure of authority of some sort. My feeling was one of wariness and sheepish acceptance of what the entity was saying. I was not able to actually physically see anything during this experience, as I had my eyes closed, but nevertheless I was able to perceive information about where I was. I was in some sort of room, laying down on my back (in reality I was on my side). I was unable to move but was fully conscious and awake. I felt no fear but the experience was not really enjoyable either. It felt very serious and slightly alarming due to the difficulty in breathing effectively.

After some communication and some other significant events that I cannot recall anymore, I felt as if I was receiving energy from somewhere. My body felt charged and was buzzing extremely strongly, to the point of producing a soundless but still very loud "noise". I was buzzing so hard it tickled, and at that point I became aware once again that I was laying down with my eyes closed, and that I was this guy named Xorkoth and so forth. I opened my eyes and immediately I was totally out of the state I had been in. I looked at the clock and realized I'd only been away for about a minute. Subjectively it felt longer, but only maybe about 10 minutes long, not an eternity or anything. I immediately told my girlfriend about it in more detail than I was able to here, since I had more of it in my memory then.

The experience was very odd and similar to another experience I had with kratom and weed a while back, where I was repeatedly thrown into lucid dreams that were indistinguishable from reality in every way, where I was embedded 3 to 4 layers deep in those dreams. I then woke up and had sleep paralysis for several minutes where I couldn't move at all and found it very hard to breathe. This experience was similar, but it was a total removal of consensual reality into a very psychedelic state, whereas the previous experience was just like reality, only it wasn't. The difficulty breathing was identical, but it seemed to be a perceived difficulty in breathing rather than an actual one, because in both cases, the instant I snapped out, I was able to breathe normally.

The speed and total removal of the state really took me by surprise. It reaffirms to me the psychedelic power of marijuana, when used properly. If one wills themselves into altered states with it, it's possible to have some pretty profound experiences with it, even when you use it every day like I do.

When I get home later today I'll ask my girlfriend what I said to her about it right afterwards, and perhaps she'll be able to refresh me somewhat. If that's the case, I'll add to this.

Just wanted to share because I found it interesting. Has anyone else had any experiences like this?

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I had heard a small percentage of people who take kratom get minor psychedelic effects from it. I was wondering, do you think it is psychosomatic from the knowledge that the alkaloids are tryptamines? I have read several reports that mentioned marked intensification of color and minor cev's, which I find to be hallmarks of a low dose tryptamine exposure.
How much of it do you truly attribute the the cannabis?
How would you compare the experience to high dose opiate nods?

The experience is much more lucid than an opiate nod, and not at all uncontrollable like those. Kratom's high is also much more lucid than a true opiate high, and feels much more electric. I thought this before I even knew the alkaloids were indoles, so I don't think it's psychosomatic.

That being said, I attribute the vast majority of the experience to cannabis. I also have some very high quality and particularly psychedelic strains. But kratom does seem to have a special synergy with cannabis that other opiates do not.

Would you say there is any significant visual activity at higher doses without cannabis?

ive gotten oevs from cannabis to the point where it looks like the sidewalk is moving in a fluid like motion and warping like it would on mushrooms. usually after a big sesh ill be walking and it will look like the sidewalk or ground is oozing along sometimes moving in a circular motion and i really dont need to focus at all to see this stuff. ive even seen light ffractal patterning when i smoked some weed while on ecstacy. and i always always get cevs when i blaze

I get next to no visual alterations from cannabis, maybe just some MINOR visual patterning in low light.

I rarely ingest cannabis in any way, so when I do, I get completely blown off my ass. I never used to bother with anything less that top-grade weed, and so when I do smoke on occasion now, I keep the habit of smoking potent sativas. I usually get wild visuals and insane body buzzes, akin to mushrooms and the kind of god-energy body high which comes with the fungus.

Never heard of anything like that before, I take it that was 9g of dried leaf? I wish I could get a buzz off that little, I used to regularly take 10g of the resin yet I don't think it's ever given me a psychedelic experience. I've never combined it with weed though, maybe I should give that a go, though it never works too well on me anyway since I'm such a poor smoker.

psychedelicious said:

I rarely ingest cannabis in any way, so when I do, I get completely blown off my ass. I never used to bother with anything less that top-grade weed, and so when I do smoke on occasion now, I keep the habit of smoking potent sativas. I usually get wild visuals and insane body buzzes, akin to mushrooms and the kind of god-energy body high which comes with the fungus.

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I been cutting back lately, but I dont think my tolerance will EVER drop to that level without years of abstaining from it.

That being said, I attribute the vast majority of the experience to cannabis. I also have some very high quality and particularly psychedelic strains.

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That's the only kind of cannabis I enjoy smoking. Would that be an indica strain, or what makes it psychedelic?

Also, I think I'd attribute the vast majority of the experience to Rosanne. Pot may have played a minor role.

egor said:

Would you say there is any significant visual activity at higher doses without cannabis?

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No. One single time near the beginning of my kratom usage, at a high dose after a break, and with cannabis the world seemed to be brightened and colors enhanced, but that's it. Kratom isn't really psychedelic IMO, just more lucid and enhancing to psychedelics than opiates. I find that kratom mixes well with psychedelics on the plateau or comedown to ease yourself back to sobriety without killing the trip like true opiates do.

Cannabis on its own aids me greatly in meditation and internal visualization, and it provides one of the best body highs of any substance. Whenever I mix it with anything it makes the body high much more profound and interesting and pleasurable. Even on its own, when I meditate on it, I'm able to reach pretty profound and out-of-body places. However, this experience was much more real and powerful than almost any other I've had with it.

Dondante said:

That's the only kind of cannabis I enjoy smoking. Would that be an indica strain, or what makes it psychedelic?

Also, I think I'd attribute the vast majority of the experience to Rosanne. Pot may have played a minor role.

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Actually the sativa influence is what makes cannabis psychedelic. The best strains are blends of sativa and indica, however, which is what I have.

Also, although Roseanne may have played a part, I was totally unaware of reality, let alone the TV during the experience

Stainboy said:

Never heard of anything like that before, I take it that was 9g of dried leaf? I wish I could get a buzz off that little, I used to regularly take 10g of the resin yet I don't think it's ever given me a psychedelic experience. I've never combined it with weed though, maybe I should give that a go, though it never works too well on me anyway since I'm such a poor smoker.

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Yes, it was 9 grams of standard dried leaf from a quality supplier (as some kratom on the market is poor quality). I take the stuff every day (or had been until very recently), for the past 3 years, so my tolerance is up. I used to require 5-6 grams for a strong experience. Do you have opiate tolerance? I found that when I was on a morphine kick a while back, kratom did very little.

Also, I've found that the extracts and resins for kratom are a very, very bad deal. They claim to be 10x, or 7x, or whatever, but I've found that even 10x extract is only moderately stronger than regular leaf by weight and the experience seem transitory and incomplete. My opinion is that the extracts leave out a number of the lesser alkaloids that make kratom what it is. As far as I'm concerned they're a very expensive marketing ploy that has eaten up a lot of people's money. The only form of kratom I would ever buy is the standard leaf. Everything else is a rip-off, even from good vendors.

Finally, kratom has a very marked synergy with cannabis. Combining the two is much better than using either alone. They complement each other perfectly.

Xorkoth, you have more experience with kratom than erowid, so I was wondering if you could give me some insight. I am planning to use kratom after the peak of a san pedro experience. Do you see any major complication arising, other than some nausea which I am already expecting may be present?

Nope. I use kratom after the peak/pleateau of almost every drug, and have done so with mescaline. I've found it to combine well with everything.

I've already got two kratom reports on Erowid... I guess I should write another detailing the combinations I've done.

vaporizers will do that to ya

Very interesting.
I have had similar experiences to that when I combine weed with codeine, as I find the other opiates too intense to reach that kind of mindstate. but I am always aware I am in my own head, or not there... as there is this euphoric voice that speaks to me and comforts me about my situation... giving me advice on how to improve or deal with my current life situation.

But I have yet to try kratom properly. I have been growing it for some time, and haven't yet taken enough leaves off at a time to get a high off it, maybe the time will come towards the end of the summer. Does anyone know the approximate amount of leaves (fresh) one should use to attain sedation?

Depends on the strength of the plant, but I use regular leaves from a quality supplier and it takes me 5-6 grams, ground, with no tolerance, or when I've been using it for a while I work up to as much as 10 grams. Some people seem to need a lot more but I'm pretty sure they either have a large opiate tolerance already, they're using a bad quality product (some vendors don't store it properly or obtain good leaves), or they're not making it right.

Anyway, kratom is not quite like other opiates. Most opiates for me produce sedation and contentment, but not what I would consider euphoria (happiness as opposed to joy). Kratom comes on stimulating, but it's not a jittery stimulation at all. However, it reminds me more of a light version of MDMA and perhaps a little bit of coke than an opiate at this point. It makes me want to talk and jump around on the comeup. Then after a little while it switches to a more opiate-like sedation. I also like kratom because it keeps the mind sharp and the emotions fully working. I often feel very motivated on kratom. Of course, use it too often and these qualities start to fade.

Since you're growing it, I think you'll need to just start low and work up, because I don't know the strength of your leaves. Also, weigh the leaves dry, and store them sealed from air in the freezer, as kratom's alkaloids actually break down fairly quickly otherwise. If you don't want to dry them (I actually suspect fresh leaves will be better than dried ones), then I really have no idea. I'd start low and work up. Not sure what low is, though...