PDA

View Full Version : Ethcathinone



Pages : [1] 2 3

nuke
12-01-2007, 23:20
AKA 2-ethylaminopropiophenone. Who's tried it? Worthwhile? I've been told it's not as good as amphetamine.

egor
12-01-2007, 23:28
I have never been able to find a whole lot of info on this one. Very interested in it though. I will have to keep an eye on this thread.

fastandbulbous
13-01-2007, 08:44
I got some many, many years ago from Aldrich's catalogue of rare chemicals (don't worry it's not a source, since they joined with Sigma they wont do buisness with anyone without university or similar affiliation - or several notes from your mother!) as it's an active metabolite of diethylpropion (Tenuate Dospan or chalkies/tombstones in hip parlance =D), which is alright as a stimulant, but nothing to get too excited about. 50mg will produce reasonable CNS stimulation, but you'll not be eating anything for 18 hours afterwards

haribo1
13-01-2007, 08:50
Tenuate Dospan. Wow, I remember THOSE babys. Tombstones were currency in my school (Private, high achieving place) near exam time. I dropped 4 and was awake 3 days!

phase_dancer
13-01-2007, 18:51
Living in NZ, Tenuate Dospan was a regular "supplement" with many of the thinner, fun loving girls during the seventies.

yoyoman
14-01-2007, 05:42
so whats a good dose to start off with.. (if one would aquire a little..).. oh.. 50mg? - coming from an amphetamine hardhead (just curious..)

fastandbulbous
14-01-2007, 10:45
I wasn't quite as hard in the noggin back then!

Dr.Heckyll
14-01-2007, 19:19
I've made it and tried it...all right as a stimulant, but nothing too great. Best used as nasal spray. Mainly a NE uptake inhibitor, lacking the dopaminergic push, but still something you can get accustom to.

haribo1
14-01-2007, 21:26
^^^Have you made the butane analog of meth as well? I've mentioned this in another thread, but a friend of mine in The Netherlands made the 3 & 4 carbon 1-phenyl, 2 methyl amino compounds. He optically seperated them & tried them. He stated that the 4-carbon was better. Reckoned it passed through the BBB faster (or something). I mean, what's its legal status in the UK?

fastandbulbous
15-01-2007, 06:40
A friend of mine made aephetamine & it's N-methyl derivative & said that they weren't that impressive in comparison to amphetamine & meth. He did say that the beta keto derivatives were pretty good though

nanobrain
22-06-2007, 06:35
rumored active 50-100mg oral / intranasal.

ralf2
23-06-2007, 20:54
Well, I haven't tried ethcathinone, but I've tried the analogue with one extra carbon: 2-ethylaminobutyrophenone (N-ethyl"catbutinone"?).

I wasn't expecting much, but it was actually fairly enjoyable. Quite stimulating and no need for sleep was felt. It had some euphoria but not as much as with plain amphetamine. The duration was also a bit less long, but longer than say MDPV.

izo
24-06-2007, 01:53
reminds me of the difference between mbdb and mdma.
ot:
so one can assume that 4C sidechain analogues of amphetamine like stimulants maintain activity combined with a drop in recreational potential.
according to adriadnes pihkal entry this seems also to be the case with 2,5-dimethoxy-peas.
so why are the sar's of these compunds, although having different receptor binding profiles, so similar regarding alpha alkylation? handling by mao-b? relevant question?

Riemann Zeta
24-06-2007, 22:23
I think that it is interesting that N,N-diethylcathinone (diethylpropion) is completely inactive in vivo, but ethylcathinone is a methylphenidate-like DA/NE reuptake inhibitor (Rothman 2005, I think). I bet the butyl (aka alpha-ethyl) analogue would be a lot like pyrovalerone or MDPV. I don't think that MAO-mediated destruction is an issue, as long as there is something at the alpha position--such that the compound is not a naked phenethylamine. I assume that increasing the alpha carbon chain length shifts the profile of the compound from that of an amphetaminergic DAT substrate to a that of a bulky N-substituted DA/NE reuptake inhibitor. Also, the beta-keto moiety appears to confer reuptake blocking properties, rather than substrate properties.

Jamshyd
25-06-2007, 03:20
Between the stupefying Methcathinone, the utterly life-destroying MDPV, and the fuck-me-but-run-away-before-I-cum Methylone... I decided that the Cathinones are a worthless bunch (for me, at least).

I am still interested in Catha edulis, though.

Riemann Zeta
25-06-2007, 16:42
I'm not a fan of the cathinones either. Methylone does virtually nothing for me, empathogen wise and MDPV causes so much uncomfortable sympathomimetic PNS activity and wicked headaches, even at a 5mg dose. For some reason, my MDPV experience was even worse than methylphenidate in terms of PNS stimulation (i.e. massive sweating, bump in heart rate, jitteriness, headache, flushing). It was like drinking 8 shots of espresso while chewing nicotine gum at the same time. Not only was it not ideal in terms of ADD therapeutic effect, it was just not worth it period.

haribo1
25-06-2007, 16:53
I'm someone else who finds MDPV unpleasent. I much preferred desoxypipradrol (in spite of it's wicked 1/2 life).

Will01996
25-06-2007, 18:44
AKA 2-ethylaminopropiophenone. Who's tried it? Worthwhile? I've been told it's not as good as amphetamine.

A friend of mine ordered a substance called "Ethylamphetamine" and I think the longer name was 2-ethylaminopropiophenone. He took it in 10 mg doses and found it to be a strong stimulant, appetite suppressant, but not very euphoric. I think the most he tried at 1 time was 30 mg.

This happened in the late 1990's so my memory is a little fuzzy. Seems like he tried to order more of it, but a permit was required shortly after his first experiments.

fastandbulbous
26-06-2007, 04:19
^ Not the same thing, ther's no keto group in ethylamphetamine (& it's a very, very nice stimulant on a par with amphetamine potency wise, but much smoother (a bit like meth, but without the crazy potential - the euphoria wasn't as pronounced as with methamphetamine, but it was plentiful enough)

drunken_etard
26-06-2007, 07:27
i tried Methcathinone and it was by far the most edgy ampy shitty ass speed like drug i have ever taken. Absolutely horrible in every way to me.

hussness
26-06-2007, 20:26
^ Not the same thing, ther's no keto group in ethylamphetamine (& it's a very, very nice stimulant on a par with amphetamine potency wise, but much smoother (a bit like meth, but without the crazy potential - the euphoria wasn't as pronounced as with methamphetamine, but it was plentiful enough)

Do you have any theories for why ethylamphetamine is subjectively smoother than amphetamine?

Jamshyd
26-06-2007, 20:38
I'd venture to say that it might be higher rate of BBB crossing, thereby reducing its effects in the PNS.

But don't take my word for it... if anyone is an expert on this, its definitely F&B :D

nuke
26-06-2007, 21:21
Hey, shouldn't it be easy to make 3-ethyl-2-phenylmorpholine (phenmetrazine 4 carbon analogue)? Unscheduled I think...

sarbanes
26-06-2007, 21:29
I'm someone else who finds MDPV unpleasent. I much preferred desoxypipradrol (in spite of it's wicked 1/2 life).

Haribo, I asked you a question regarding how you obtained M1, years ago. You still haven't answered. Here's the link. http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=305427

and my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by haribo1
No mate, Gruntenthal used Sigma-Aldrich material for some reason. Now you know HOW I 'aquired' it.


But you claimed to have ordered it from Sigma Aldrich (you even said the price), and you also said you stole it from Gruenthal when they left out the vials. No offence, but I'm curious what your going to say next

__________________________________________________ ______________
haribo1
Bluelighter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,129
Offline:
I've tried desmethyl tramadol from Sigma-Aldrich. It's more or less half way between morphine & codeine. Snorted it kicks in at about 3 minutes. Very euphoric and long-lasting. It caused me some hyperthermia but that was the only side-effect off 100mg of the HCl salt.

haribo1
Bluelighter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,129
Offline:
This is going back a decade! 1g was about $200. Yes it was freebase but that's hardly difficult to sort out.
__________________________________________________ _______



PS: no offence, but I want to make sure I am chatting with honest people. Sure you can clear this all up. Tnx, and please don't be angry, but please do reply this time.

LuxEtVeritas
29-06-2007, 18:00
I got some many, many years ago from Aldrich's catalogue of rare chemicals (don't worry it's not a source, since they joined with Sigma they wont do buisness with anyone without university or similar affiliation - or several notes from your mother!) as it's an active metabolite of diethylpropion (Tenuate Dospan or chalkies/tombstones in hip parlance =D), which is alright as a stimulant, but nothing to get too excited about. 50mg will produce reasonable CNS stimulation, but you'll not be eating anything for 18 hours afterwards

Interesting
why would the N-ethyl (metabolite) be longer acting than the N,N-diethyl as I thought Diethylproprion is required to take multiple times per day thus in no way having a 18hr duration and thus reason for creating the CR drug form

Riemann Zeta
30-06-2007, 03:51
N-ethylcathinone is the active species responsible for the effects of diethylpropion. In order to obtain ethylcathinone, however, diethylpropion has to undergo 1st pass metabolism. The tertiary nitrogen is definitely not the only target of reduction--the ketone is also reduced, yielding (d)- and (l)-diethyl-cathine. I'm gonna bet these both suck as stimulants and sympathomimetics. Thus, perhaps people who take diethylpropion only end up with a little bit of the active ethylcathinone. Maybe taking (S)-ethylcathinone straight-up is 5-10 times more potent on a mg-for-mg level than diethylpropion. Hence, it was that much more tweaking. Also, people have different responses to amphetamines--I never get anorectic effect, nor have I ever.

As for the extended release version of diethylpropion, I suspect that it is just another example of a pharmaceutical company scramble to monopolize a chemical for as long as possible. Whether or not the drug actually needed that extended release is not their concern. It's all about the coldhard.

fastandbulbous
30-06-2007, 04:49
Interesting
why would the N-ethyl (metabolite) be longer acting than the N,N-diethyl as I thought Diethylproprion is required to take multiple times per day thus in no way having a 18hr duration and thus reason for creating the CR drug form

Ah, maybe it's just me, but diethylpropion would make my stomach feel iffy for a full day afterwards, killing the desire to eat. This is different to the centrally mediated appetite supression (which only lasts 4-5 hours for both) and is paralelled by the locomotor stimulant activity.

Basically, it made my guts churn for a fair while after the desirable effects had vanished

fastandbulbous
30-06-2007, 04:54
I'd venture to say that it might be higher rate of BBB crossing, thereby reducing its effects in the PNS.

But don't take my word for it... if anyone is an expert on this, its definitely F&B :D

It's also to do with it's effects on the serotonogic system - a fraction of the activity of methamphetamine, but still greater than that of plain ol' amphetamine. Serotonogic efflux/reuptake inhibition seems to reduce the edgyness that is seen with amphetamine

LuxEtVeritas
30-06-2007, 16:24
Ah, maybe it's just me, but diethylpropion would make my stomach feel iffy for a full day afterwards, killing the desire to eat. This is different to the centrally mediated appetite supression (which only lasts 4-5 hours for both) and is paralelled by the locomotor stimulant activity.

Basically, it made my guts churn for a fair while after the desirable effects had vanished

Gotcha...that makes sense...possibly a more individual GI reaction, not anything to do with some extended half-life or such

thx

hugo24
02-07-2007, 13:31
Ethylcathinon could easily have a longer half-life than Diethylpropion. Sometimes Metabolites have this property.Well,just to point out that metabolites aren't necessarily of shorter action by definition,don't know the half-lifes of these two though.

LuxEtVeritas
02-07-2007, 23:31
Ethylcathinon could easily have a longer half-life than Diethylpropion. Sometimes Metabolites have this property.Well,just to point out that metabolites aren't necessarily of shorter action by definition,don't know the half-lifes of these two though.

true in one regard that metabolites certainly can have a longer active life than the parent, but specifically here since Ethcath is a major active metabolite it would be odd to be significantly longer then the pro-drug which largely is causing a delayed release of the active metabolite itself.

such as sibutramine is mostly active due to its long acting metabolites, but those metabolites do not have a longer overall duration than the 'pro-drug' itself

sibutramine itself before being degraded into its desmethyl and didesmethyl metabolites has only about a 1 hour half-life and thus is simply more or less a pro-drug for the two metabolites that have half-lifes of around 16 hours or so

anyway as we see he noted it was not a true CNS based effect but an individual response side effect that had a prolonged activity far greater than the active duration of the drug itself on the CNS

LuxEtVeritas
02-07-2007, 23:38
Hey, shouldn't it be easy to make 3-ethyl-2-phenylmorpholine (phenmetrazine 4 carbon analogue)? Unscheduled I think...


i was just thinking this, but as you refer to it as an analogue of phenmetrazine which is sched 2 than by analogue law, in US at least, it is sched

now if you do this to diphenmetrazine that is sched 3 than i guess it is not controlled in the US

silly freakin way to make laws, which are BS in the first place of course in a country based on liberty

Mal hyde
04-07-2007, 06:03
ethcathinone is a strange one, has euphoric properties once you understand the action after sampling a few times,, it is compulsivly addictive ,,

fastandbulbous
04-07-2007, 10:14
i was just thinking this, but as you refer to it as an analogue of phenmetrazine which is sched 2 than by analogue law, in US at least, it is sched

phenetrazine perhaps? :D

bob_arctor
22-05-2008, 23:05
mal hyde: How would you describe this "clearer view" of it's action after getting used to it and sampling it a few times? What qualities do you feel are hidden in the compound?

immad
22-05-2008, 23:33
I've been wondering in what way ethcathinone affects the brain, if it's a releaser and reuptake inhibitor like plain cathinone and methcathinone seem to be or if it's mainly a reuptake inhibitor, like wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethcathinone) seems to suggest? As a novice, I don't really believe that sticking one extra CH2 at the methyl destroy's the releasing properties of MCAT.

I UTFSE, but I couldn't find any conclusive data.

Also, does anyone know how it compares to modafinil, desoxypipradrol, caffeine, cocaine and amphetamine sulfate in terms of (neuro)toxicity? Especially at the low end of the dosage range, to just make your mind a little bit brighter to study and socialize after a bit too little sleep.

Thanks in advance.

vecktor
22-05-2008, 23:35
mal hyde: How would you describe this "clearer view" of it's action after getting used to it and sampling it a few times? What qualities do you feel are hidden in the compound?

he is er, unlikely to answer you, the clue being the line thru his name and the title ex bluelighter.

Ham-milton
23-05-2008, 00:50
I've been wondering in what way ethcathinone affects the brain, if it's a releaser and reuptake inhibitor like plain cathinone and methcathinone seem to be or if it's mainly a reuptake inhibitor, like wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethcathinone) seems to suggest? As a novice, I don't really believe that sticking one extra CH2 at the methyl destroy's the releasing properties of MCAT.

I UTFSE, but I couldn't find any conclusive data.

Also, does anyone know how it compares to modafinil, desoxypipradrol, caffeine, cocaine and amphetamine sulfate in terms of (neuro)toxicity? Especially at the low end of the dosage range, to just make your mind a little bit brighter to study and socialize after a bit too little sleep.

Thanks in advance.

Methcathinone isn't a DA releaser, it's a simple DARI.

So, I guess you're right, the extra carbon doesn't destroy the releasing properties that weren't there ;)

immad
23-05-2008, 01:32
Thanks for clearing that up.

How (neuro)toxic is Ethcat in comparison to modafinil, desoxypipradrol, caffeine, cocaine and amphetamine sulfate? I was under the impression that plain reuptake inhibitors are less detrimental to the brain than releasers/reuptake inhibitors, is that incorrect too? ;)

Riemann Zeta
23-05-2008, 01:51
MCAT is not just a pure dopamine uptake inhibitor--certainly it is more of a reuptake inhibitor than methamphetamine, but it is still a DAT, NET and SERT substrate (more so than an inhibitor). EthCAT is probably more of an inhibitor because of the bulky N-linked alkyl chain. But I would still bet it has more substrate-y properties than say, methylphenidate or the pyrovalerones.

MCAT is probably less neurotoxic than methamp, but more toxic than regular amphetamine.

If I had to bet, here is how I would rank the PEA substrate stimulants in terms of neurotoxic potential, from highest to lowest:

PCA >> MDA, PMA > MDMA > MDEA, Methylone, Methamp > MCAT > EthCAT > ethylamp > (d)-amph, cathinone

Ham-milton
23-05-2008, 02:10
ethylamphetamine has to have less neurotoxicity than amphetamine proper.

Are there any papers discussing the neurotoxicity issues with the various 4-subbed amps like PCA, PMA, 4FA. It's my understanding that 4-methylthio-amphetamine blows even PCA out of the water in this respect. No?

hussness
23-05-2008, 03:44
How is the ability of a drug to function as a monoamine transporter substrate quantified? Is it by competition with labeled DA, NE, or 5-HT? I know that DAT blocking can be measured by competition with a high-affinity ligand, but since substrates for these transporters need to have moderate affinity how is this measured?
I remember F&B speculating that part of the reason why fencamfamine was such a nice stimulant was because it had a near perfect substrate to reuptake inhibitor ratio. I did a brief scan for literature and haven't come up with anything. Any thoughts?

immad
21-01-2009, 14:12
Zombie bump, but does anyone have some more data on the neurotoxicity of ethcat?

tadfish
23-01-2009, 16:09
I very much like it. You can snort, smoke and eat it. What dose's ya all using?

tadfish
06-02-2009, 17:54
does it turn into cathinone in ya stomach?

fastandbulbous
08-02-2009, 07:54
I've been wondering in what way ethcathinone affects the brain, if it's a releaser and reuptake inhibitor like plain cathinone and methcathinone seem to be or if it's mainly a reuptake inhibitor, like wikipedia seems to suggest? As a novice, I don't really believe that sticking one extra CH2 at the methyl destroy's the releasing properties of MCAT.


Here's some figures from a paper (Monoamine transporters & psychostimulant drug, Eur J. Pharmacology; 479(1-3): 23-40)

Laid out as follows

Drug/DA release EC50/DA reuptake inh Ki/NE release EC50/NE reuptake Ki/5HT release EC50/5HT reuptake Ki (all figures in nM)

N-ethylcathinone/>1000/>1000/99.3/360/2118/3840

Diethylpropion/>10000/>10000/>10000/>10000/>10000/>10000/

and for comparison

(+)Amphetamine/24.8/34/7.1/38.9/1765/3830

(+)Methamphetamine/24.5/114/12.3/48/736/2137

shibireru
08-02-2009, 09:07
Here's some figures from a paper (Monoamine transporters & psychostimulant drug, Eur J. Pharmacology; 479(1-3): 23-40)

Laid out as follows

Drug/DA release EC50/DA reuptake inh Ki/NE release EC50/NE reuptake Ki/5HT release EC50/5HT reuptake Ki (all figures in nM)

N-ethylcathinone/>1000/>1000/99.3/360/2118/3840

Diethylpropion/>10000/>10000/>10000/>10000/>10000/>10000/

and for comparison

(+)Amphetamine/24.8/34/7.1/38.9/1765/3830

(+)Methamphetamine/24.5/114/12.3/48/736/2137


Ewwwwww.... Fucking worthless serotonin. That shit doesn't do ANYTHING useful near as I can tell (unless you dislike having emotions and a libido).

So, is this why amphetamine is such a worthless aphrodisiac for me? It actually diminishes libido when I take it.

/BTW, what's the standard recreational dose? Maybe that's my problem. The most I've taken at any one time was 15 mg of dextroamphetamine. I couldn't go any higher because it makes me extremely aggressive and irascible; I found myself screaming at people, especially my father, at the top of my lungs. Then there's the anxiety, edginess, increased apathy and dysphoria, insomnia, confusion, increased competitiveness, decreased working memory capacity, poorer word recall, and generally just decreased intellectual capacity... (I have a little baseless pet theory that says that amphetamines and so-called "amphetaminergics" produce little to no recreational effect unless mu-opioid receptors are already being stimulated to a considerable degree - that is, that they synergistically produce euphoria.)

shibireru
08-02-2009, 10:35
Okay. I'm going to go to harm myself by taking a randomly large dose of my dexies here, if you don't answer my questions soon.

Reduce my harm! :!

nuke
08-02-2009, 17:53
Ewwwwww.... Fucking worthless serotonin. That shit doesn't do ANYTHING useful near as I can tell (unless you dislike having emotions and a libido).

So, is this why amphetamine is such a worthless aphrodisiac for me? It actually diminishes libido when I take it.

Those are EC50 values.


The term half maximal effective concentration (EC50) refers to the concentration of a drug or antibody which induces a response halfway between the baseline and maximum.[1] It is commonly used as a measure of drug potency.

So lower amounts refer to greater amounts of potency in those areas. This makes ethcathinone a poorer serotonin releaser than amphetamine (but higher doses of ethcathinone are usually required).

It's interesting that we found a selective NE releaser/reuptake inhibitor and people like it so much!

tadfish
08-02-2009, 18:05
Here's some figures from a paper (Monoamine transporters & psychostimulant drug, Eur J. Pharmacology; 479(1-3): 23-40)

Laid out as follows

Drug/DA release EC50/DA reuptake inh Ki/NE release EC50/NE reuptake Ki/5HT release EC50/5HT reuptake Ki (all figures in nM)

N-ethylcathinone/>1000/>1000/99.3/360/2118/3840

Diethylpropion/>10000/>10000/>10000/>10000/>10000/>10000/

and for comparison

(+)Amphetamine/24.8/34/7.1/38.9/1765/3830

(+)Methamphetamine/24.5/114/12.3/48/736/2137

I would like to see those for all those cathinones like 4mmc and methylone and ethylone. pls